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The Art Of Peer Pressure

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by GaryTheGengar, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. GaryTheGengar

    GaryTheGengar believe me sweety I've got enough to feed the needy

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    136
    Introduction
    peak 1700+ on beta, 1 smogon tour


    [​IMG]
    by GaryTheGengar

    This team is centered around rock polish genesect, one of the most broken pokemon in the metagame. CTC showed me the beautiful RP giga drain set early bw2, and we never looked back. The set has almost no counters, and this team seeks to find them, and either eliminate them, or set up a sweep with one of our other dangerous sweepers. The goal of the team is to be able to set up on its counters with our other sweepers, tear holes in the opponent's team, find a successful set up opportunity, then sweep. Thanks to the extremely limited number of pokemon that actually check genesect, this is often an easy task. This team was extremely successful, peaking over 1700 on po's beta server. I laddered to second undefeated, before losing to hax. This team began to get stolen, so I stopped laddering, and decided to make a RMT. Princess Bri also used this team in the final of the recent mini ou tournament, beating yee. The ideas for this team stemmed from me and CTC thinking that genesect and terrakion complemented each other perfectly. We tried building around them with a more defensive approach, but the team was never anything more than decent. I decided to take this team in a much more offensive direction, and consulted with ctc about it. He helped me cover the large holes this team used to have, while perfecting the offensive synergy. After we'd finished, we ran the team by our friend gamester, who gave us a final, massive suggestion. CTC and I went and perfected the sets, and then began demolishing people with it.




    Team Building Process

    by CTC (open)



    I remember back in the beginning of bw2 i started using a nite/gene core because rp gene sets up on scarfers using ice moves to revenge nite. however, that team was ditched because nite has a really hard time setting up this metagame. That is the reason we chose to forego dd nite and introduce THE biggest threat of bw1: terrakion. I run sub sd because im a bitch but the ballsy gary suggested double dance. double dance isnt worried about speed ties and also lures in scizor who gets set up on by genesect, with the added bonus of lo cc ohkoing rp gene.
    [​IMG][​IMG]


    After the core is settled, Gary introduced the brilliant volcarona, who sets up on zor, loom, and kills tran which opens up a gene sweep. He suggested the best lure set of quiver dance, giga drain, fire blast, and hidden power ground because the checks to gene rak: tran, tar, terak, loom, zor are all weakened/ taken care of. This stage of the team used a CB tyranitar, so no bug buzz wasn't an issue. We changed to a similar set, but with bug buzz over hp ground. As time went on, bug buzz was only useful for deo-d, which volc shat on with or without buzz. We changed to HP ice. bulky waters like cruel and toed are severly shat on. Moreover, once the opponent realizes it doesnt have bug buzz they usually have already lost a poke and will have their bulky watr/tar weakened.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After the offensive core was established, we decided starmie was the optimal spinner for its ability to spin and beat deogar barring scarfgar, but we usually psyshock gar on the switchin anyways. Not only does it have good natural bulk, but it also weakens conkeldur for the sweepers and packs power behind hydro pump. since we decided to have no weather, gary suggested a weather move to remove weather after the opponent sacrifices their weather, it was originally rain dance but i thought hail would mess with tornadus and make keldeo go for hydros to do damage.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    the next pokemon was originally a regular sd fight gem breloom to demolish tyranitar, weaken zor, beat rain, and mess with trick room, but in a random chat gary mentioned a sash breloom set that he used way back. we thought it might be a good idea to make that a semi lead because it destroys rain turn 1, shuts down trick rom, spores an offensive threat turn 1 and at the same time fires off a hit on a fighting resist softening it up for terrak. This loom was a godsend to the team, and pulls off one too many mid game mini sweeps for when we saved it and kept its sash.this breloom, in our opinion, is the best pokemon in the metagame at the moment
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    the last pokemon was the trickiest. gary originally had a salamence to catch the dragons, pull off mini sweeps, and generally soften things for the core. however we found that the lack of rocks is painful for the sweepers, and tornadus T was simply swirling its dick in this teams gatorade tank. so in the end, we needed a catchall revenger, an sr setter, and a hurricane resist in one, so i suggested jirachi. seeing as jirachis normal switchins: rotom wash, gastro, hippo, gliscor etc force it out anyways, the scarf stealth rocks was never a problem, and it made the opponent aware that gene or terrak would be the revenger, also aiding in a bluff setup. hell, it even allows jirachi to pull off unexpected revenge kills.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After a bit of testing, however, we found that rain and gyarados were big problems. Also the lack of a good matchup with rotom wash, especially the twave version, was troublesome. Therefore, taking gamesters advice, we changed volc to the old dd dragonite set. I mean, if it was very successful before, why ditch it. Also if dragonite isnt the win condition, it is still a good pokemon for bashing holes, since its role as a win condition has diminished a bit. Even so, dragonite has still swept one too many teams than it gets credit for. With starmie spinning and posing an offensive presence(if they see hydro pump they dont set up on starmie with nite) and the effectiveness of loom as a lead, any huge threat that hasnt been checked (tornadus, thunderus, toxicroak, landorus, wash etc)
    dragonite will most always come out without a scratch and patch up whatever the opponent has left as offensive presence. Dnite is one of the best 'Oshit' buttons in ou barring alakazam, ditto, and maybe tr reuniclus. I suggested a band set, but Gary proved that dd was much much better.

    The final version of the team ended up looking like this:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]




    Team In Detail

    Commentary in Gray = CTC
    Blue = GaryTheGengar


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]Breloom (M) @ Focus Sash[​IMG]
    Trait: Technician​
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd​
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)​
    - Spore​
    - Swords Dance​
    - Bullet Seed​
    - Mach Punch​


    First off its the lead breloom. It matches up very well vs rain because it sashes a scarf icebeam and kills the toed, allowing for me to change the weather with starmie. Moreover, its a free kill on slow toeds that try to become sleep fodder. if they switch to stalk tornadus, bseed does a huge chunk, and then you can either kill or sd depending on the threat level of big bird and the number of fight resists on their team. Against terrakion, just kill it with bullet seed on the cc. if they sr thats a free kill. on aero, also a free kill. Against sun teams, I have terak in the lead spot so donphan is lured out, so u just bseed right away the ninetails fodder and finish with mpunch if u happen to get a good roll. if not spore/sd on ur sash.


    Sash breloom is absolutely amazing. I almost always lead with this thing, and it just shits on common archtypes. The only playstyles I don't lead with this guy are against sun or deo-d, as I lead with terrakion in both situations. Loom almost always puts a pokemon to sleep, and gets at least one kill. He also kills weather starters, allowing me to neuter the common weather reliant sweepers that dominate the meta today. His priority saves my ass against some sweepers that I let get out of hand, such as rock polish terrakion. Loom matches up amazingly vs. many common leads. Against lead terrakion, you can tank anything he throws at you thanks to sash, while ohkoing with bullet seed. Same with mamoswine, azelf, aerodactyl, any common suicide lead. Starmie can come in later and spin away rocks. He also 6-0's the newly popular trick room teams that have started to become common.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]Genesect @ Life Orb[​IMG]
    Trait: Download​
    EVs: 24 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 228 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)​
    - Rock Polish​
    - Giga Drain​
    - Ice Beam​
    - Flamethrower​


    Rock polish genesect needs very little explanation, as it kills off a large portion of the metagame with ice/fire/grass coverage alone. My motto is don't set up too early and don't set up on something that can kill you. Because of the threat of rp genesect, most good players leave in something that can't ohko genesect to at least deal damage to it. Therefore, I like to kill off things earlygame if the opponent has hard counters like heatran or wobbafet lurking around. When facing an opponent team who is cleanly swept by it after a bit of damage, I always find the poke that I can 100% set up on(dugtrio, choiced lati, -2 lati with no hp fire, defensive toed, scarfed resist moves etc)Those teams are most likely offensive and will willingly fodder off pokes for powerhouses. In that case, I will often try do things like switching dragonite into a latios to bait the draco/ scout if choiced, or send out terrak to bait dugtrio etc. By sacing a poke I ensure a set up opportunity, and since the sacs are enormous threats themselves, the opponent is put in a tough spot to either let dnite/terrak set up or let genesect set up.

    Rock polish genesect is one of the most dangerous sweepers in the metagame. When given a +1 boost, he sweeps through teams like nothing. Giga drain looks strange, but its absolutely amazing. Props to CTC for giga drain, as hes the first user I've ever seen using it. It removes common RP genesect checks such as terrakion, gastrodon and rotom-w, while losing essentially no coverage by using it over thunderbolt. Genesect is the perfect partner for terrakion. They set up on each others counters, and remove their respective checks. Genesect gets a safe rock polish as well as a special attack boost on two of terrakion's biggest counters, gliscor and hippowdon. The evs, courtesy of CTC, allow genesect to outspeed base 80s with a positive speed nature, while speed creeping 286 speed genesect. Evs have been changed to outspeed neutral base 95s such as Kyurem-B and Gliscor without a boost, and reach a life orb number. Thanks to gr8astard for the gr8 suggestion!



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    [​IMG]
    *terakion's face when he just got sacked to scizor*

    [​IMG]Terrakion @ Salac Berry[​IMG]
    Trait: Justified​
    EVs: 4 HP / 248 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spd​
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)​
    - Substitute​
    - Stone Edge​
    - Swords Dance​
    - Close Combat​


    terrakion was THE biggest threat of BW1 bar none, and he returns in BW2 as the savage destroyer of stall alongside breloom. Sub salac is much easier to utilise than the dancing rak, not only simplifying prediction but also being protected from priority and status. To be honest, since terrakion is more easily walled/revenged than genesect, I often sac it after weakening the opponents team paving way for genesect if I know it won't sweep. For example, it does a great job of severly crippling tentacruel/ bulky waters and jirachi/bulky steels, luring in skarmory/scizor, and forcing out the scarf revenge killer after setting up. It is the perfect segue into one of the other 2 sweepers and it either dies early game or sweeps lategame.

    Terrakion is the perfect partner for genesect. He sets up on heatran, chansey and rotom-h, some of the only checks to rock polish genesect. He also baits in scizor, which is forced to revenge him, allowing genesect to reach +1 spatk /+2 spe. Tera is also capable of sweeps of his own. Setting up on Deo-D can often result in a 6-0, as common deo-d teams have nothing for a +2 terakion behind a sub. At the very least, I prevent them from getting more than stealth rock, which is easily spun away later. I previously had a dual dance set in this slot, but didn't like the life orb recoil. It was nice being able to fire off what was essentially a banded cc, but this set pulls off sweeps with ease. 4 evs in hp give it an even hp stat, allowing three substitutes to take us down to salac range instead of four, while 4 evs in sp. def give genesect an attack boost.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Dragonite (F) @ Lum Berry[​IMG]
    Trait: Multiscale​
    EVs: 232 Atk / 24 SDef / 252 Spd​
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)​
    - Dragon Dance​
    - Outrage​
    - Fire Punch​
    - ExtremeSpeed​




    Dragonite has lost so much of its glory from the BW1 days because of a pokemon that is on half of all teams -___- Yes, its the (i'm calling it) next ubers suspect candidate Genesect. I mean, if you can't beat them join them right, that is why we run our own genesect. Genesect and dragonite are best buds, but only when they are on the same side of the playing field. Dragonite sponges genesect's nasty weakness while genesect returns the favor and sets up on the choiced ice moves used to revenge kill dragonite. Iron man does its avenging best when dragonite has set up and ravaged through half the opponent's team with a +1 outrage, denting resists like celebi and ferrothorn so they can't live genesect and terrakion's hits later on. The dragon's powerful priority is also tremendously useful in many situations, from weakening revenge killers to finishing off low health pokes. Fire funch is chosen to deal with rain max special defense ferrothorn who is a huge pain, but I like to run earthquake to immediatly kill heatran and tentacruel.

    Dragonite was the last addition to this team, but is quite possibly the important member. In additon to being one of the most dangerous offensive threats in the metagame, he acts as our stop to opposing set up sweepers that can't be handled by jirachi. Before dnite was added, we had large weaknesses to random sweepers that jirachi couldnt' revenge, such as rock polish landorus and scarf salamence locked into earthquake. Dragonite is utilized to its best effect in this team. Hazards are rarely ever down due to the offensive nature of the team, and when they do get down, starmie can reliably spin them away. I can also remove opposing weather with hail, and set up without dragonite's multiscale being broken by sand after the hail ends. 24 Special defense evs guarantee the survival of a modest genesect's life orb'd ice beam.


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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]Starmie @ Leftovers[​IMG]
    Trait: Natural Cure​
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd​
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)​
    - Surf​
    - Hail​
    - Psychic​
    - Rapid Spin​

    Starmie is pretty much the best deogar counter barring scarfgar. Its good bulk and blazing speed along with the handy ability to change weather is invaluable for the team. Starmie is the epitome of a team player, as it almost guarentees that rocks will be clear and usually clears weather to preserve dragonites multiscale. often times we would sac it to a ttar and set up with terrakion from there, which loses us the weather war but snatches a great opportunity for the biggest physical threat to set up. We decided that leftovers is all the recovery that we needed, because starmie may become set up fodder should a gyarados or dragonite learn of its forth move, so it usually does the 2 things it needs to do and dies, simple as that.

    Starmie was chosen because of volcorona's reliance on a rapid spinner, but it remained after volc itself was removed from the team. Starmie is a very important member of the team, spinning rocks away, letting dragonite be used to its full potential. Hail removes the opponent's weather, and cuts the threat level of many dangerous pokemon such as venusaur, keldeo, and tornadus-t. Most people will sac their weather starter, as I don't have a weather inducer of my own. I then switch in Starmie, and use hail. Hail can also remove sandstorm, allowing me to set up dragonite without multiscale being broken once hail wears off. I ran rain dance, with thunder over psychic originally, but CTC showed me that hail was better to cut the threat level of popular rain sweepers such as keldeo and tornadus-t. Psychic is chosen over psyshock solely for conkeldurr. I used to run hydro pump, but got tired of missing, and switched to surf.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Jirachi @ Choice Scarf[​IMG]
    Trait: Serene Grace​
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd​
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)​
    - Iron Head​
    - Fire Punch
    - Ice Punch​
    - Stealth Rock​


    Jirachi is part two of the utility blue-collar core. It comes in on hurricains and dracos, sets up rocks, and fakes the opponent out with surprise revenges. Many a times it has even scored a first turn genesect kill. The idea is simple, come in and set up sr, then switch out anyways because the opponent will likely bring in a counter/ bslam absorber. Jirachi's flinching tactics have also saved us many times, and its revenge killing capabilities have been proven over 2 generations.

    Jirachi holds this team together. The combination of rachi and dnite check essentially every offensive poke together. Jirachi sets rocks, allowing us to get through opposing dragonite, as well as breaking sashes and sturdy. Jirachi switches in on something it checks, such as latios, sets rocks, and switches out. Later in the game, when the opponent's iron head resists have been removed, rachi can switch back in and sweep. Rachi can tear through common offensive teams, as even their resists are 4-5hko'd by iron head, meaning that with a small amount of prior damage, they can't stand up to rachi unless I miss the flinch chance multiple times.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Conclusion
    by GaryTheGengar

    This team was very fun and effective to use, but unfortunately, was spoiled thanks to teamstealing and the like. Shoutouts to big MOET for the format, chimpact for helping with pictures and just being a cool guy, gamester for helping with the team, jasonpwns and problems for asking on skype for a shoutout, kyle and steve for being cool, nitro and joey because they're badass, Hugo for being one of the best players i've seen, john for never letting me see him battle, bri for being a strong princess and of course CTC for helping me make this happen. Another shoutout to shurtugal, for not only reaching top 10 with this team, but for nominating it for the rmt archive!


  2. GaryTheGengar

    GaryTheGengar believe me sweety I've got enough to feed the needy

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    136
    How we play against common teams

    Rain Offense:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I lead with breloom, while they often lead with politoed, as they want to get their weather up asap. I kill politoed, and they go to tornadus. They expect to ko, but I survive thanks to my sash, and spore. I then swords dance, bullet seed, and can often get a second kill before dying. I then go to starmie on ferrothorn, and set up hail while they kill me. rock polish genesect then sweeps. If they lead with genesect, the situation is often the same, except I spore right off the bat. They break brelooms sash, so I can't go on a mini rampage, but I can go to rachi on the tornadus, and get up rocks. Then the same situation follows, resulting in a genesect sweep.

    Sand Offense 1:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I lead with breloom, as they lead with hippowdon or rotom. I spore, and gain the immediate advantage. with hippo asleep, these teams are swept cleanly Terakion. Genesect can also gain a clean sweep by setting up on hippowdon or mamoswine.

    Sand Offense 2:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Breloom leads off, sporing turn one. Jirachi comes in and sets rocks. Terakion sweeps this sort of team, and Genesect can put in work, as long as you eliminate spdef. fire blast ttar previously.

    Sun Offense:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    These teams are annoying, but very easy in practice. Dragonite or Terakion can set up on Xatu or a locked genesect, and rampage through these teams. Once ninetails goes down, starmie can hail, and the team becomes an easy win.
    DragMag:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Easy victory, as Genesect can set up on an outraging dragon and sweep the opponent clean.
    Heavy Offense:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I lead with Terakion, and swords dance turn one. If they aren't swept right off the bat, I can get in starmie and spin. One of my sweepers then comes in and cleans up. Jirachi can also sweep these teams endgame, once their steel resists are weakened.

    Baton Pass:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Setting up alongside ninjask with either genesect or terakion can spell the end for a baton pass player.

    Threat List


    You might notice that we rely on Jirachi to check most offensive pokemon. With such an offensive team, we don't have the space to fit defensive checks. We avoid getting swept by setting up and sweeping first, and using the aforementionedJirachi, as well as Dragonite, to check sweepers that do manage to set up. The offensive threat list is mostly irrelevant, but is included for completion's sake. Red = Threat.

    We play against defensive teams by highlighting a weakness, and choosing a sweeper to take advantage of it. After other sweepers weaken / remove the counters and tear holes into the opponent's defense, our main sweeper is sent into a pokemon that it can set up on safely, and finish the match.


    Show Hide

    Standard OU Offensive Threats

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Choice Band - rak, rachi, loom
    • Choice Scarf - same
    • Dragon Dance -rachi and loom
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs -set up on when locked into wrong move
    • Support - loom, baited + killed with slight previos dmg by gene, can't really stop anything except jirachi
    [​IMG] Scizor:
    • Choice Band - gene sets up on, rachi
    • Swords Dance - rachi, gene, dnite can revenge if needed
    • Bulky Swords Dance - above, easier to revenge though
    [​IMG] Dragonite:
    • Choice Band - jirachi, genesect
    • Dragon Dance - mainly jirachi, requires some smart switching if it comes into something without rocks down and rachi is weakened.
    • Mixed - rachi + gene
    • Parashuffler - reliable spinner = no hazards = this isn't a threat
    • Rain Abuse - rachi + gene
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - breloom, dnite
    • 3 Attacks - same
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Standard - starmie shits on it, terak
    • Choice Scarf / Specs- same as above
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind / Wish + Calm Mind - dnite, changing the weather cuts the threat level
    • Expert Belt - this exists? dragonite
    • Choice Scarf - always a threat, as 60% scarf flinches are gay af vs offensive teams. genesect can hopefully set up, speed tie with my rachi, or set up with tera + take a chunk out.
    [​IMG] Latios:
    • Life Orb / Expert Belt - jirachi, loom baits + kills v often
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - same, set up bait after kill
    • Calm Mind -jirachi
    [​IMG] Reuniclus:
    • Calm Mind - jirachi, dragonite
    • Offensive Trick Room - can be slightly annoying, but jirachi and dnite are still good checks. doesn't really have anywhere to set up.
    [​IMG] Haxorus:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - jirachi, set up bait for gene
    • Dragon Dance - jirachi, gene
    • Double Dance - same
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Nasty Plot - not relevant, terak / dnite
    • Choice Specs - same
    • Special Attacker - set up bait for terak, starmie can change weather once they sack ninetails, dragonite can set up.
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr:
    • Bulk Up - starmie, as most don't run payback anymore. genesect can also tear a big chunk off with flamethrower if it gets weakened.
    • Flame Orb + 3 Attacks - less dangerous, as the residual damage makes revenging it easier.
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Nasty Plot Sweeper - gene sets up if hp ice, dragonite if fire, jirachi
    • Tinkerbell - gotta watch out for twave, but gene / dnite / rachi
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf - easy set up bait
    [​IMG] Terrakion:
    • Double Dance - gotta keep loom alive for rock polish versions
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - can revenge dnite at +2, but allows me to set up on moves
    • Substitute + Swords Dance / Salac Berry - rachi, loom
    • a note for all tera - they are eager to switch in on genesect, and are ohko'd by +1 giga drain.
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance - can set up on jirachi, and can be an issue, as jirachi itself can't revenge. dragonite can still beat it, however.
    • Choice Scarf - too slow to revenge set up sweepers, might get a suprise kill but then will be easy to take advantage of
    [​IMG] Gengar:
    • Substitute + Disable / Pain Split - usually found spinblocking on deo-gar teams, beaten by starmie. set up on dnite, jirachi beats it.
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Life Orb - i usually end up flinching to death with rachi, as it prevents my sweepers from setting up on it. rachi isn't ohko'd by any moves, and does around ~30%, making this easier than it sounds.
    • Rapid Spin - set up bait
    • Choice Specs - same
    [​IMG] Landorus:
    • Rock Polish / Swords Dance - dragonite, breloom
    • Choice Scarf - revenges something, set up on by something else
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - breloom, dragonite
    • Special Attacker - special rock polish is an issue. this was probably the biggest threat to the team when we had volcorona -> dragonite, but dragonite can check it now.
    [​IMG] Infernape:
    • Mixed Attacker - starmie, dnite
    • Nasty Plot / Swords Dance Booster - same
    • Choice Band - same
    [​IMG] Volcarona:
    • Offensive Quiver Dance -tera / dnite, depending on coverage
    • Bulky Quiver Dance / Roost -tera / dnite
    • Chesto Rest -tera / dnite
    • Substitute -tera / dnite
    [​IMG] Magnezone:
    • Substitute - can be an issue if paired with something that we rely on jirachi to check. usually requires a sac + something to revenge it.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - less of an issue, can only kill jirachi.
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Calm Mind - jirachi, dnite
    • Bulky Sun Attacker / Passer - jirachi, dnite
    [​IMG]Salamence:
    • Dragon Dance - jirachi relies on a speed tie to revenge. has a lot of trouble setting up, and usually the pokemon in can do enough damage to revenge with nite extremespeed.
    • Mixed - jirachi
    • Defensive - doesn't wall anything save for breloom, easy to switch into
    • Choice Scarf / Band - scarf is the same as the dragon dance set, except i can set up on its outrages. used to be a big issue with volc, as we had no ground immunities, but isn't hard to handle now
    [​IMG] Hydreigon:
    • Offensive - jirachi, terak set up on draco
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - same
    • Substitute - can be dangerous, but has a hard time getting a sub up. requires a sac if it runs sub / fire blast / focus blast / dpulse.
    • Mixed Attacker - jirachi
    [​IMG] Breloom:
    • Bulk Up - dnite
    • Sub Seed - dnite
    • Sub Punch - dnite
    • Sword Dance - dnite, starmie can revenge if dnite goes down
    • Choice Band - dnite
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Calm Mind - jirachi
    • Offensive Tank - jirachi, set up bait after draco meteor
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - very easy to set up on
    [​IMG] Toxicroak:
    • Swords Dance - play mindgames with starmie, remove weather / psychic. genesect can revenge
    • Bulk Up - dragonite shits on this, in addition to the same checks as the offensive set
    [​IMG] Lucario:
    • Swords Dance - jirachi is a great check, genesect, dragonite, it can't set up
    • Nasty Plot - same
    [​IMG] Virizion:
    • Calm Mind - jirachi beats this easily
    • Swords Dance - starmie, jirachi, dragonite
    [​IMG] Scrafty:
    • Dragon Dance - jirachi, breloom
    • Bulk Up - breloom, terakion, dragonite
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • Special Growth - change weather, dnite checks in sun
    • Mixed Growth - usually run hp ice, gene checks
    • SubSeed - starmie abuses this set, dragonite
    [​IMG] Metagross:
    • Stealth Rock - genesect sets up on
    • Choice Scarf / Band - same
    • Agility - same, gene can tank LO earthquake
    [​IMG] Mienshao:
    • All-Out Attacker - starmie, breloom, dragonite
    • Choice Scarf / Band - same
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Shell Smash - jirachi, breloom
    • Utility - pretty much everything haha
    [​IMG] Mamoswine:
    • Physical Attacker - genesect, jirachi
    • Focus Sash + Endeavor - usually a lead, so breloom. starmie can beat it and spin its rocks.
    [​IMG] Darmanitan:
    • Choice Scarf / Band - dragonite, terakion
    [​IMG] Tornadus:
    • Rain Abuser - jirachi
    • Choice Specs - jirachi
    [​IMG] Abomasnow:
    • Choice Scarf - set up bait, jirachi
    • SubSeed - jirachi, gene
    • Mixed Attacker - jirachi mainly
    [​IMG] Alakazam:
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - rachi
    • Offensive Calm Mind - rachi
    • Focus Sash - rachi
    [​IMG] Azelf:
    • Dual Screens - rachi
    • Lead - rachi, starmie spins rocks
    • Nasty Plot - rachi
    • Choice Band - rachi, set up on easily
    [​IMG] Azumarill:
    • Choice Band - one of the only things that can revenge both of our main sweepers. dragonite sets up on it, starmie can switch in and remove weather
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Fast Spiker - set up on with terak, come in and spin later with starmie
    [​IMG] Dugtrio:
    • Focus Sash - can only trap tera, revenge with anything
    • Choice Band - same, but set up bait for dnite
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Agility - loom
    • Choice Specs - dragonite on the water moves, doesn't get chances to switch in
    [​IMG] Gorebyss:
    • SmashPass - doesn't get a chance to smash, i can hit the poke switching in
    • Shell Smash Sweeper - doesn't get a chance to set up, jirachi outspeeds after a smash
    [​IMG] Kingdra:
    • Dragon Dance - can't set up, is set up bait once locked into outrage. jirachi can revenge
    • Rain Dance - can be an issue. requires smart switching to get into a draco meteor, but the issue passes once it has -2 spatk.
    • Choice Specs - set up bait
    [​IMG] Kyurem:
    • Choice - rachi, set up bait
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - rachi, terak
    • Substitute + Roost - rachi, terak
    [​IMG] Victini:
    • Choice Band / Scarf - hits everything hard, but is set up bait afterwards.
    • Physical Attacker - same
    [​IMG] Stoutland:
    • Choice Band / Life Orb - loom, rachi, genesect, terak
    [​IMG] Smeargle:
    • Baton Pass - hit it, then ko with priority
    [​IMG] Sharpedo:
    • Speed Boost - priority, dragonite
    [​IMG] Rotom-C:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - dnite, genesect, set up bait
    • Support - genesect, dragonite
    [​IMG] Garchomp:
    • Sword Dance - rachi can revenge, terak + priority
    • Choice Scarf -set up bait
    [​IMG]Tornadus-T:
    • Standard - rachi
    • Choice Specs - rachi
    [​IMG]Landorus-T:
    • Standard - can put some pressure on physical sweepers, big gene bait though
    • Choice Scarf - same
    [​IMG]Thundurus-T:
    • Nasty Plot - jirachi
    • Agility - can't set up, revenged by dnite
    • Choice Scarf - can only revenge dragonite while using hp ice, then becomes gene set up bait
    [​IMG] Keldeo:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind - starmie, dragonite
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - starmie, dragonite
    [​IMG] Gensect:
    • Choice Scarf / Band - set up bait, terak, gene
    • Rock Polish - terakion, can revenge if at perfect health. rock polish set setting up on jirachi can be an issue.
    • Expert Belt - terak, rachi
    [​IMG] Gothitelle:
    • Calm Mind - rachi, gene
    • Choice Scarf / Specs -rachi, gene
    [​IMG] Meloetta:
    • Relic Song Mixed Attacker - loom, dnite, rachi
    • Calm Mind + 3 Attacks / Substitute -loom, dnite, rachi
    Standard OU Defensive Threats

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Specially Defensive - terakion, breloom
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    • Standard - breloom, genesect, dragonite
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Defensive - loom destroys, prime rp bait for gene, dragonite
    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    • Swords Dance - rachi can revenge, starmie
    • Substitute + Protect - starmie, genesect
    • AcroBat - never seen after ss + sv ban, revenge with starmie / rachi
    • Defensive - big set up bait for genesect
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Specially Defensive - terakion, starmie
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Specially Defensive - fuck rachi. dragonite sets up on it though.
    [​IMG] Skarmory:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker - genesect set up bait, starmie
    • Specially Defensive Spiker - can't check anything, above threats
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Specially Defensive - change its weather after it dies, set up with tera.
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Physically Defensive - gene set up bait, jirachi, dragonite
    [​IMG] Forretress:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker - massive set up bait
    • Specially Defensive Spiker - same
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • RestTalk - starmie walls it, doesn't check any of my main sweepers too well.
    [​IMG] Jellicent:
    • Utility Counter - breloom, dragonite, genesect
    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    • Toxic Spikes - starmie
    • Substitute + Toxic - checks both sweepers somewhat. starmie can come in, change weather, and ko.
    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    • Tank - loom, dnite, genesect.
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Dual Screens - rachi
    • Baton Pass - rachi
    [​IMG] Blissey:
    • Support - terak, breloom, dnite somewhat
    [​IMG] Vaporeon:
    • Wish Support -gene, breloom
    • Rest Hydration - gene, breloom
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Support - jirachi, genesect
    [​IMG] Bronzong:
    • Tank - gene set up bait, starmie
    • Dual Screens - same
    [​IMG] Swampert:
    • Defensive - loom, gene
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stallbreaker - dnite, rachi
    • Baton Pass - dnite, rachi
    • Sword Dance / Nasty Plot - dnite, rachi
    [​IMG] Slowbro:
    • Tank - genesect, breloom
    [​IMG] Quagsire:
    • Curse - gene, loom
    • Specially Defensive - gene, loom
    • Physically Defensive - gene, loom
    [​IMG] Cresselia:
    • Support - hard to kill, can't do anything, and starmie will neuter its recovery.
    • Dual Screens - same
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Specially Defensive - loom, terak
    [​IMG] Hippowdon:
    • Physical Tank - loom, gene set up bait, starmie
    [​IMG] Xatu:
    • Standard - set up bait, often can't prevent rachi from getting rocks down.
    • Dual Screens - same
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet:
    • Bulky - weaken it with one sweeper, kill with another
    [​IMG] Whimsicott:
    • Prankster - try not to set up, but it can't wall anything
    [​IMG] Tangrowth:
    • Physically Defensive - genesect
    [​IMG] Sableye:
    • Prankster - genesect, starmie, dnite
    [​IMG] Porygon2:
    • Defensive - terak, breloom
    [​IMG] Chansey:
    • Support - tera, loom, rachi
    [​IMG]-Rotom-H:
    • Support - terak, starmie, dnite
    • Choice Scarf - rak, dnite
    [​IMG] Amoonguss:
    • Standard - genesect, dragonite

  3. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    374
    YESHSH this is a team that has a great matchup vs almost all offensive teams and most defensive ones. The debatable changes would be the coverage move on dragonite, hydro pump vs surf on starmie, and the possible change of terrakion to a lightball pikachu. I have always argued for focus punch pikachu to be the final member of the offensive core, and it even patches up the thunderus weakness by absorbing electric moves for that delicious 600 special attack. Other than that I'm proud that Gary and I have been able to construct this successful team :D
    Also shout out to Bri for being a baller in the tour with it.
  4. King

    King

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    595
    Great team Gary. You and CTC really mastered the weatherless idea with this team. I don't quite understand hail on starmie though. If you want to clear the weather, may i suggest Rain dance over hail for preserving dragonite's multiscale?

    Also, if you have problems with gyarados, you already have Ice beam on genesect, why not changing ice punch to thunderpunch on jirachi? I don't know if you have already tried that and it didn't work, but it can paralyze genesect instead of ice punch and it takes more damage to it in case it tries to set up rock polish.

    Great team overall, can't wait to use it. Thanks for the shoutout too! :]

    edit: also, luvdisc'd
  5. JayJay21

    JayJay21

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    Hey bros (: awesome team. Just wondering what will you do against a RP Genesect with Giga>thunderbolt. with a bit of damage on terrakion and sr up you'll get swept :\
  6. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    374
    Thanks for the rate Jason, and Gary originally had rd on starmie. I thought being able to remove the opponent's favorable weather is more beneficial for the team, it also allows starmie to not be jerked around by sub toxic tenta and stuff like toxicroak. Also, Dragonite is a much bigger threat than gyarados therefore we need to check that more reliably. Dragonite usually handles gyarados well anyways. A choiced electric move especially on an arena trappable poke doesn't sound too good. But thanks for the rate!

    Thanks for the rate JayJay, even though Genesect, especially rp gene is imo the biggest threat in the metagame right now, we can still reliably stop it. It gets an attack boost on every poke on the team besides loom, and we usually keep 2 of these three pokes alive to check it: loom, terrak, and dnite. Its output on nite is 252+ SpA Life Orb Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 278-330 (86.06 - 102.16%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO, and even then we can always lo stall it and finish with loom. It also does about 74% - 88% to terrakion outside of sand, and that type of genesect usually comes with sand. Worse comes to worst we just life orb stall it a bit and beat it with loom at around half health, and since we almost never let genesect set up without damaging it in some way, it isn't unbeatable. Thanks for the rate!
  7. Red3mpti0n

    Red3mpti0n

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    55
    Great team and RMT, great job.

    I think you could get away with EQ > Fire Punch on Dragonite. Kyurem-B in OU means physically defensive Ferrothorn will be on the rise and Ferrothorn only needs a light tap from any of your other attackers to put it in KO range of Genesect's Flamethrower.

    Again great job. This is really good work.
  8. gr8astard

    gr8astard The Based Lord? My balls!!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Past SPL + WCoP Winnerwon the 9th Official Smogon Tournament
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    347
    Hi GTG and CTC,

    I just want to start off by saying that I love the look of this team. Sash Breloom and Hail Starmie seems to be doing a lot of work.

    Some nitpicks that I want to suggest is changing Genesect's spread to 24 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpDef / 228 speed, Modest. With the given spread, you still maximize your special attack and gives opposing Genesect an attack boost, but you have the added benefits of hitting life orb number HP (289 as opposed to 293) and outspeeding adamant base 95 pokemon (Gliscor and Kyurem-B specifically, even though sand veil is banned on PS). While you do lose 4 HP in bulk, I believe the decrease in LO recoil pretty much makes up for it.

    I am still a little concerned about your matchup vs sun, because it seems like you are quite reliant on opposing players playing recklessly with Ninetales (which admittedly is often the case). However if they manage to keep sun up, or did not give you a chance to use hail, pokemon such as Venusaur or HP Ground Volcarona can do a number on your team. Of course they also need SR in play to break Dragonite's multiscale, so I guess you can play around it easily enough. The same goes for threatening set up sweepers like agility Thundurus-T, RP Genesect, and scarf Salamence--between SR, two powerful priority users in Breloom and Dragonite, and giving the opponent minimal chance of setting up without inflicting damage, I believe they can all be handled to an extent.

    Other than that, great team. All these guys are huge threats, and Starmie is imo the best rapid spinner atm. Also loving the Terrakion and Dragonite pictures.

    Good job guys :]
  9. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    Gary and CTC :) Old $G Members!

    CTC and I made a team similar to this one and it currently sits on #12 on PS (since CTC wanted another SashLoom team), so this team is an amazing team in the metagame so far! I literally cannot nitpick a perfect team, so I'm just going to luvdisc and commened you guys on such a perfect team! :)


    ~ Shurt
  10. EnterRAYZORS

    EnterRAYZORS

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    It looks like tornadus completely fucks you up after Jirachi. To render this, you COULD (might make team less effective) go with Latios > Dnite. Dnite, resists and is immune to water, fire, ground, and fight. So is Latios, however the extra bulk provided by multiscale will be lost (even though rocks and hail do that atm anyway) and Due to Tornadus's lower defense stat, a stab psyshock would ruin his day. So I would go with a scarf on this set, aswell as it just being generally more helpfull.
    On jirachi i would go SpDef > Scarfrachi. This means you dont lock yourself into Stealth Rock and can spam body slams etc to flinch stall your opponant. Whilst blocking Hurricanes much better.
    With two psychics, im not too sure if Starmie would hold his place on the team with Latios now on your team.
    Thats really just a suggestion as I dont really see it being better, and your team is ridiculously solid!
    Good luck with the team, and ive luvdiscd
  11. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Can i suggest you a different set of terrakion? If you really want to baitkill scizor, which can be a problem otherwhise, you can try a Double dance Terrakion with Babiry berry. This will let you setup a Sword dance or a Rock polish without the fear of a bullet punch.
    Another thing i would change here is your scarf Jirachi, i have never tried a scarfed Pokemon with stealth rock, but i should assume that if you go for stealth rock then you are setup bait for any setup sweeper, so you have to switch-out to something else and then bring back again Jirachi to revenge kill that pokemon. I think that a specially defensive jirachi here can work, obviously if you do this change go for Scarf Genesect.
    Other than that, great team and good luck :)

    Set:
    Show Hide
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Body Slam/ Fire punch
    - Iron Head

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Flamethrower
    - Giga Drain /Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam

    Terrakion @ Babiri Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Rock Polish
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
  12. CheatEnabled

    CheatEnabled

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    haven't played pokemon in a while so i don't know the new threats running around but i can tell this teams pretty sick, especially since two ballers made it.
    but if someone with a non CS ditto comes out n wins speed tie on your gene you might get hit pretty hard since +1(2)/2 with that coverage hurts you as well

    -big e
  13. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    374
    Thanks for the rate guys, we really appreciate the suggestions.
    @Red3mpti0n: Good call bro, I actually run eq on my version of the team. However, fire punch is an emergency check to a rampaging rp genesect when nite is at full health, and is generally more useful for softening up forre/ferro and brongzong etc for terrakion and genesect's unboosted hits to kill later on. But great suggestion!

    @gr8astard: Thanks for the rate buddy, however I would like to keep the genesect evs the same because you never know when you'll need that 4 extra evs to survive a close combat and set up! jkjk, that's an amazing spread and we'll definitely change it to that (i ran ebelt so I forgot to take into account LO number) Also with sun I lead with breloom to bait out tails as the sleep fodder, which I bseed right away, and the they'll keep it in to break sash while I kill it. Generally its the better trade off for the opponent to sac tails to loom, and if they switch around too much they'll have an actually useful member put to sleep. Weather is hard to play around but starmie's potential offensive presence and spinning capabilities cause frequent switches, resulting in a free turn to use hail. Thanks for the spread and basically laying out our weaknesses gr8, we'll definitely try to improve the team's match up vs sun!

    @Shurt: Hey buddy :D Gratz on your achievements on PS with that team! This team definitely has issues still so it's far from perfect xD. But thanks for the luvdisc and support! Claim gr8's spot on the PS ladder!!!!

    @EnterRAYZORS: Thanks for the rate! If tornadus is life orbed, the opponent will not send it in vs loom, so it's saved for mid game. This variant hits less hard, is vulnerable to starmie changing the weather while not being ohko'd, can get revenged by dragonite, and doesn't kill my sweepers. In conclusion is not as big of a threat as it seems on paper. a good scarf bluff with gene or terrak could also give us setup opportunities, while torn is unable to kill. Spextorn is almost always the sleeptalk variant, so the opponent usually switches right out of toed and into it on breloom. After I sash the hit and retaliate with a bullet seed, I can finish it off with a mach punch assuming good roll on seed, or weaken it to the point where rocks will allow dragonite to revenge it. I do realize the threat level of tornadus T, but dragonite is absolutely necessary for things like rp gene and dd gyarados. It is a catch-all safety net that is too invaluable to forego. A pursuitable scarfer is also never that hot of a choice, as we need the revenge killer to stick around for a while. But Thanks for the rate, we will consider a bulky jirachi set!

    @Neliel Tu Oderschvank: Thanks for the rate! If you've read the analysis, terrakion is also there to bait scizor to *kill it* then enable genesect to set up. RP genesect is the most broken pokemon in the metagame and I've been using it since when it got released, so there's no way we'll change the core of the team, sorry :C. However I see the point you are getting at, but since the synergy between gene-rak is so remarkable we really can't afford to lose either one's setup capabilities. Good suggestion about Jirachi :D, it can definitely have a bulkier spread, but must remain scarfed for the sake of revenge killing.

    Also just to address a few concerns:
    Jirachi lures in bulky grounds, bulky waters, and heatrans etc on the turn I stealth rock. It won't be staying in anyways, so choiced SR is NEVER a concern for us. Hell, it even fakes a non-scarf set. Sun is an issue, but tails almost always dies to loom, and dragonite is the best emergency sun check out there. Stall is an issue indeed, but between loom, starmie, and terrakion/nite, it is manageable to say the least.
    Currently the irreplaceable members are Genesect, Terrakion, Dragonite. Everything else is up for discussion (sets, spreads, changing pokes etc)

    Thanks for the rates everyone! We appreciate the support!
  14. EnterRAYZORS

    EnterRAYZORS

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    Yeah, I rated this team using my current team with a Double Dancing Terrak and RP Genesect core , though i then added Scarf Latios and Latias but couldnt decide between shich one, but If Dnite's multiscale helps alot ill concider using that to help out my team hahaha so thanks for the idea i guess :P haha
    But yeah just tryin to help, but it seems you have it covered, and as long as your aware that it can be a threat, then smart play and simply being aware of the threat then you will be fine.
    Anyway good luck with the team!
  15. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner
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    Messages:
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    Hey there Gary. Like others have said opposing RP sweepers and Sun look threatening on paper, but they can all be played around. Any suggestions to try and help with these issues would probably hurt the team more than help it, and this team is probably the best it can be. Great team bud and luvdisc'd.
  16. dice

    dice follow @smogmogu for hot content
    is a Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

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    Yay, I'm a strong princess!

    Obviously on paper Electric-types, Gyarados and Special Landorus are easily the biggest problems, but it's more of a "who sets up first wins" sort of ordeal. I would say Breloom /could/ be replaced for an SR Celebi with something like U-Turn - Earth Power/HP Ice - SR - Leaf Storm to help fix this, but I mean it's offense, you can't check everything! Oh and then put Thunder Punch on Jirachi. Luvdisced.
  17. tab

    tab ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2008
    Messages:
    953
    You're kinda horribly weak to latias/latios, seeing as your only steels are 2hkoed, and one is supposed to be your main sweeper, plus they come in easily enough on starmie and loom. I'm also not really sure I like your Starmie set, even if using Hail is a cool idea. I'd probably use Psyshock anyway, how often do you see a Conk? You could try changing Jirachi's set to make it a better switch into steels or something.

    More importantly though, you're weak to teams of pink nfes
  18. GaryTheGengar

    GaryTheGengar believe me sweety I've got enough to feed the needy

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    136
    @EnterRAYZORS - Glad you're using the genesect / terrakion core! its extremely dangerous. good luck with your team, and thanks for the rate!

    @dragonuser - thanks bro! ctc and I put a lot of effort into this team, so your words mean a lot.

    @bri - yes, yes you are. Celebi is a decent suggestion, but unfortunately he is really weak, and gives the opponent opportunities to set up, which this team can't really afford. thanks for the rate, and good job in the tour bb!

    @tab - Jirachi, our main switchin, isn't 2hko'd by anything outside of life orb hp fires and spec'd surfs. Latios and Latias are actually a blessing to face, as a -2 draco meteor is huge set up bait for all of our sweepers, allowing us to chose one to wreck face. Psychic has worked out fine for us so far, but you're right, conkeldurr isn't too common. Psyshock helps vs calm mind keldeo and virizion, so we might give that a try. Thanks for the rate!
  19. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    374
    @Dragonuser: Thanks for the rate man! Yea, as many kind users have pointed out, those threats are troublesome albeit not impossible to play around. Appreciate the support!

    @Bri:Eyy Princess we named our loom Briiloom :DD. Celebi would be nice cushioning voltturn combos and whatnot but it makes us more weak to genesect (having to guess the set, free rp set up) however, we will consider celebi if we ever decide to make a more balanced version of the team. Thanks hon <3

    @tab: I don't see how latis locked into draco is a bad thing for the team, as the team is meant have its sweepers set up on one another's revenge killers. Moreover, latis mean I get rocks up for free. Psyshock was originally used over psychic, but the the disadvantages are easily outweighed by the ability to neuter conk. Also if you're gonna tell us what to change or what to change to, can you at least take 5 more seconds of your time and go beyond "try changing Jirachi's set to make it a better switch into steels or something"? Also, if you're going to pride yourself on beating the team whose user close combats a gligar and switches brelooms into will-o-wisps, then you really aren't fit to rate the team that we put so much effort into. No offense :) Thanks for the rate!

    Edit: ninja'd
  20. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,802
    The idea for the team is great and I really enjoyed playing it.

    I've tested this team a bit and I really like E-Belt over Life Orb on Genesect. I understand that the extra damage is great but you can potentially get LO stalled which is problematic. For the most part you're going to hit what you need for SE damage and if you dont, well I don't think LO would do significant damage to where it would matter.

    Additionally, I'm not sure why you want to get the surprise kill on genesect with Scarf Rachi. Genesect is great set up fodder for a lot of your team members and if you replace fire punch with u-turn, you can use Jirachi to gain a lot of momentum. Usually it's just waiting for your opponent to bring in a pokemon that walls it (early/midgame) so that you are forced to either sack something or take heavy damage. Jirachi is great late game, but u-turn would definitely help you maintain momentum and put a lot of pressure on your opponent throughout the match.
  21. EnterRAYZORS

    EnterRAYZORS

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    Okay after using your team im rating again.
    On Jirachi, i personally couldnt decide on fire punch or U-Turn.
    U-Turn gave me the momentum as you always outspeed, and it lets you go out into Terrak and set up, giving you the game. it works 95% of the time. Whereas with fire punch you get a kill (or die yourself against sash varients) and give opponant all momentum, and Gene isnt really a threat to your team as it never really gets a special boost anyway.
    With that being said I honestly couldnt split the two. However your more experienced than me and i think you should concider U-Turn > Fire Punch.
    Good luck .... Again
    Haha
  22. GaryTheGengar

    GaryTheGengar believe me sweety I've got enough to feed the needy

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    136
    @Chimpact - Thanks for all your help bro, we really appreciate it. I prefer life orb on genesect, and most user i've talked to that have been using the team do too. Its a big boost for neutral coverage, and can allow you to get big ohkos on pokemon such as gengar. Giga drain also somewhat offsets the recoil. Even with giga, the recoil can be a pain, so ebelt is definitely a viable alternative. CTC runs ebelt on his version.

    Fire punch is actually mainly for opposing jirachi and scizor. We usually use the first time jirachi comes in to set rocks, and switch. You're right though, grabbing momentum the second time he comes in would be big, and fire punch is pretty limited in use.

    @EnterRAYZORS - Thanks for putting so much time in playing with our team, and rating it twice! Thanks to yours and chimpact's suggestions, we'll be using u-turn over fire punch from now on. Thank you!
  23. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    Hey Gary!

    Wanted to say that on my version of this team, and when I used yours, I found Expert Belt much better. Does it score any extra KOs? I'm assuming +1 and it's amazing coverage should be more than enough to score necessary KO's, the only Pokemon I think you might actually prefer LO for is Terrakion, and I would need to calc to see if it would KO with/out it [and I'm too lazy >_>]. Anyway, so I recommend making that change. Next time I see you on the server I'll PM you with my version of the team, one currently sitting in top 10 on PS. Anyway, this is an AMAZING team, and really the only fix I can see is what other raters have suggested; using Expert Belt. You see, when being LO stalled, it put mounds of pressure on my playing. My opponent would play switch mind games with me for a desperate wins, (you know; the +3/-27 players -____-), and I found myself in a tough position because predicting at those points were key moments. At times, I would be badass and predict the switch games. However, other times, my opponent easily caught me off guard and LO stalled me out. It doesn't help when Gene actually tanks a single hit to set up a RP since it stalls out easier. Unless you're scoring notible KOs, I would suggest you switch to EB for the sake of easing pressure and abusing it's amazing coverage.

    haha, wish you all the luck on the ladder (pls beat Megaballs and get #1 :DDDDDDD)
    Shurt ;P


    EDIT: was fighting someone using your team Gary, and trust me, they wanted Fire Punch on Jirachi. I was able to RP sweep with Gene at +1 Atk since Jirachi didn't carry Fire Punch. Change it back! Also LO stalled another player from you're Genesect. I guess people can copy this team, but not the player's talent using it since everyone on the ladder can't use you're team properly D:
  24. Wafflez

    Wafflez

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    414
    Strong team bro. The Drag+Gene+Terrak combo is brutal. Sets up on almost everything. And yeah like everyone said Expert belt>LO is a lot better to be honest.
  25. peng

    peng

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    474
    I'm agreeing with tab 100% on the Latios and Latias weakness. He never even mentioned anything about the choiced sets so idk why you immediately assumed thats what he was talking about. Fact of the matter is this team is incredibly weak to LO Latios / Latias: Jirachi can only switch-in on Draco Meteor once before its put into KO range from another full power DM. To be honest I can't really take either of you seriously if you claim that Latios and Latias are just free opportunities to lock yourself into Stealth Rock with Jirachi!

    -2 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 208-250 (73.49 - 88.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    No, -2 Latios is not set-up fodder for Genesect.

    I don't get your Breloom set at all. ScarfToed is at 12.3% usage and isn't even a guaranteed OHKO against you anyway (about 60% chance to OHKO 0 HP / 0 SDef Breloom iirc). Furthermore, this is a weatherless team so I don't see how getting knocked to sash and taking down Politoed turn 1 is so important to you. I'd recommend just changing your EV spread to 64 HP / 224 Atk / 216 Spd which gives you ~75% chance to survive Timid ScarfToed Ice Beam (not that it even matters anyway) but also guarantees you will live Close Combat from +0 Sash / Scarf / Salac / Rock Gem Terrakion (i.e. the vast majority of Terrakions around atm) and KO back with Bullet Seed. Other than Terrakion I can't see what other Pokemon you would really want Focus Sash for. You mention it beats Tornadus-T as if having a 100% HP Breloom around mid-game isn't completely situational. For this reason I think you should just run Fighting Gem so Breloom actually has some use outside of random situational sash activation mid-game if you theres no sand, no SR and Breloom hasn't taken a hit at all. The boost from Fighting Gem means Latios no longer comes in as easily, taking-up to 75% from a +2 Mach Punch and and as a result make you substantially less weak to it.

    This team is also pretty weak to Rock Polish Landorus, Scarf Keldeo, and Sun sweepers. The weakness to Landorus is alleviated somewhat by the few opportunities it gets to set-up, but there are still set-up chances available to it. Scarf Keldeo is an issue because Multiscale Dragonite is your only decent switch-in and even then it gets donked by Hidden Power [Ice]. Starmie is 2HKOd by Hydro Pump with Rocks up, and is guaranteed to 2HKO with no hazards in the rain. Fighting Gem Breloom also goes a long way to help check Breloom here, so theres another reason to use it. Outside of that I don't really want to change anything here because it just opens up a bunch more holes. Max HP Starmie would help a lot, only being 2HKOd by Scarf Keldeo in the rain which you can remove with Hail. An EV spread of 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 Spd will do. I'd also normally suggest Recover over Hail but without Hail this team is pretty weak to LO Volcarona and Sludge Bomb or HP Ice Venusaur if rocks are up. Hail is really the only thing thats stopping you from being horrendously sun weak so although its a very poor check, I think it needs to stay. Additionally you could use Choice Band Dragonite which is an arguably better check to Volcarona and Venusaur than DDnite because it actually packs some power behind its ExtremeSpeeds. CB ExtremeSpeed also helps a lot in checking RP Landorus and Scarf Keldeo, as well as just taking a lot of pressure off Jirachi for revenge-killing. Set is Outrage / ExtremeSpeed / Fire Punch / Dragon Claw, with Dragon Claw being pretty nice atm in case you don't want to auto-lose Dragonite to scarf Genesect whenever you want to use a Dragon STAB. However, Earthquake and Superpower are also good options for that last slot if you feel hitting Heatran is more important. With CB Dragonite, the need for Hail is diminished somewhat so you could go with Recover for greater survivability, but I do still see the utility of manual hail on this team.

    I really don't want to come off as an asshole with this rate, but I just really don't like when people post RMTs then shoot down people who point out a legitimate weakness!

    tl;dr
    64 HP / 224 Atk / 216 Spd Breloom @ Fighting Gem
    248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 Spd Starmie, Rapid Spin / Scald / Psyshock / Hail | Recover
    Choice Band Dragonite

    gl

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