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The Current Status of UU? STALL

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Sc4rfCh0mp, Jan 23, 2009.

  1. Sc4rfCh0mp

    Sc4rfCh0mp

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    182
    Intro
    Getting into the nUU metagame has been proving to be a big challenge. After an unsuccessful team build around a SubCM Mismagius, I decided to opt for something different than the offensive style I usually ran. Since I have never made a stall team before, this team has proven to be a challenge to build.

    Synergy
    A good stall team resist every single type in the metagame, and doesn't get scared off by things like Toxic Spikes or status. My team is able to do that, having Pokes that are immune to Leech Seed, Toxic Spikes, and a great status absorber.

    Strategy
    This team is made to status the opponent, then stall them out with either attacking moves or draining HP. Because of this, each Pokemon on my team has at least one status move on it. To prove that each of the types is covered, each type that this team resists will be highlighted in bold as it appears on the team once.

    The Team

    Spiritomb @ Leftovers
    Calm Nature
    252 HP/ 140 Atk/ 116 Sp. Def

    Pursuit/Sucker Punch
    Pain Split
    Taunt
    Will-O-Wisp

    ROles: Spin Blocker, lead
    Resists: Fighting, Psychic, Normal

    This is a standard Spiritomb set. I chose it to scare off suiciders and what not, cripple with Will-O-Wisp, and come in later in the game to take Rapid Spins.

    Clefable @ Toxic Orb
    Calm Nature- Magic Guard
    252 HP/ 252 SpD/ 4 Spe

    Seismic Toss
    Ice Beam
    Softboiled/Protect
    Wish

    Roles: Special Wall, Status Absorber, Wishpasser.
    Resists: Ghost

    This team needed some welcome wish support. Clefable provides that while being a very sturdy special wall. Seismic Toss prevents subbers from setting up on me, Ice Beam hits Flying types and whatnot, and Softboiled provides recovery for Clefable. I am consdiering Protect >> Softboiled, since Wish can recover Clefable as well.

    Milotic @ Leftovers
    Bold/Modest Nature
    252 HP/ 252 Def/ 6 Spa

    Surf
    Ice Beam/HP Electric/Toxic
    Rest
    Sleep Talk

    Role: Secondary Status Absorber, Bulky Water
    Resists: Fire, Water, Ice

    Milotic is one of the beter bulky waters in nUU. I chose a RestTalk set to activate Marvel Scale, and since Milotic is vulnerable to T-Spikes. Surf is the obligatory STAB here, and the second slot is a toss-up between waters, flyers/dragons, and wearing down other stall teams.

    Registeel @ Leftovers
    Careful Nature- Clear Body
    252 HP/ 156 Sp. Def/ 100 Atk

    Earthquake
    Iron Head
    Thunder Wave
    Stealth Rock

    Roles: Special Wall, Breaks Subsweepers, sets up Stealth Rock.
    Resists: Steel, Poison, Bug, Rock, Grass, Dragon, Dark, Flying,Normal

    Registeel perofrms several great things on my team. Its ability as a special wall is superb, as is its ability to Resist Toxic, as well as nine different types. Thunder Wave cripples sweepers, Earthquake hits Raikou, and Iron Head doubles with T-Wave for paraflinch. Stealth Rock is always a welcome addition to any team.

    Hariyama @ Leftovers
    Impish Nature-Thick Fat
    76 HP/ 252 Def/ 180 Atk

    Force Palm/Cross Chop/Brick Break
    Knock Off
    Stone Edge/Ice Punch
    Whirlwind


    Roles: Physical Wall
    Reisists: Steel, Dark, Bug(?)
    Hariyama takes a lot of hits like a champ, especially with Thick Fat. Force Palm provides parahax, but it doesn't fit well with Toxic Spikes, so I may go with Cross Chop for a stronger STAB, or Brick Break to get rid of screens. Knock Off stops a lot of sweepers from having a field day, Stone Edge/Ice Punch grants me coverage against Staraptor and Flyers. Whirlwind is for Phazing.


    Roserade @ Leftovers
    Calm Nature- Natural Cure
    252 HP/ 252 Sp. Def/ 6 Spa

    Sludge Bomb
    Spikes
    Toxic Spikes
    Rain Dance

    Roles: Toxic Spikes Abosrber, Toxic Spikes setup, Spikes setup, Weather set up
    Resists: Grass, Water, Electric

    Roserade can be bulky, to one's surprise. 105 base Sp. Def. is nothing to sneeze at. Roserade's main job is to setup layers of both kinds of Spikes, then can either serve as a Weather counter or kill off those Pesky Ludicolos. Since my team isn't overly weak to Rain Dance (Thank you Hairymama for demolishing Kabutops and Ice Fang Floatzel), Rain Dance has been chosen for a weather move.
    Changes I am Considering

    Chansey: Obviousy a good special wall in nUU, but has low Special Attack.
    Claydol: My team doesn't have a Rapid Spinner, but isn't overly weak to entry hazards.
    Umbreon: Wish support would be welcome to this team, but I already have Leech Seed.
  2. The Hitman

    The Hitman

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    201
    You really do need Wish somewhere on this team. Only One of your six pokemon have a recovery move, not counting LS. I'd suggest Changing Clefable to a Wisher and adding in an Umbreon somewhere. Also besides SR and the occasional LS you really do not have that much residual damage. Have you considered a Nidoqueen to set up TS, or Someone to set up weather, like Obamasnow?
  3. Croconaw Guy

    Croconaw Guy

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    I really don't like what Shaymin can do to this team. Registeel can take any of its hits, but Earth Power hurts like hell and Registeel can't actually do anything back bar exploding. Speaking of dead Registeel, its lack of recovery sure isnt great since it's the only thing that can stop Raikou. Your team can't really stop fire-types like Moltres very well either, and while SR eats away at them quickly, you're still in a lot of trouble when they're alive. Arcanine is great for the specs stuff, but with SR down (and it usually is) secondary attacks are likely going to beat it.

    The problems with this team all come back to recovery. You really don't stand a chance against any other stall team since your team will fall into the same trap offensive teams do - the Pokemon get worn down and stalled to death. The difference is that your team doesn't pose an offensive threat, so it doesn't have a chance to blow through the opposing walls.

    Another problem is that on top of no recovery outside of Softboiled Clefable and the very shaky Leech Seed, your team has trouble doing damage. Uxie, Swalot, and Registeel aren't going to hurt a thing, and only Uxie contributes passive damage in the form of SR. Tangrowth also has a powerful Power whip, but with poor accuracy and a poor attack type, it's not going to do anything either, and Clefable isnt doing any...damage. Arcanine is probably your best bet at doing damage outside of SR, but SR itself will hammer it and it will eventually fall (and really, it's not that hard to wall by Milotic or Chansey). Because of this, you're going to have a lot of trouble with bulky sweepers like Rest Shaymin, LO Milotic, and even stuff like Tauros if the user outpredicts you.

    Your team is basically stall without needed elements of stall (Spikes, Toxic, recovery, etc.)

    To fix these problems, I would first put in Wish support, as the previous poster suggested. A Rapid Spinner and maybe a Spin blocker would also be welcome. Leech Seed won't be enough to heal your team at all.

    I would just drop stuff that isn't really doing anything. Think Swalot especially. The whole bulk of the team feels very flimsy. I would seriously consider making major changes, since a lot tears up your team right now. As I eluded to earlier, you'll want to get Spikes support and certainly Toxic poison being spread around. Clefable is the only thing that does that (and it could get something like a Chocie Band in return - not good). That way, your team will actually be able to do damage, and with Wish support, stick around long enough to let the damage really take its toll.
  4. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    5,655
    Oh boy, lets start with the little stuff first.

    Firstly, Arcanine's moveset is great, but you really need to use Intimidate. Especially since Staraptor can break your team very easily.

    Suggestion: Swap Flash fire for intimidate on Arcanine.

    Also, you should keep with the theme of burning things imo, you should put burn orb on Clefable, this makes it not interfere with your other status. In fact as a whole, i think you need to cut out your other status's because they really dont mix well. What i would do is make your Registeel either have Counter, or Rest over Thunder Wave.

    Suggestion: Burn Orb on Clefable, and Rest/Counter over Thunderwave on Registeel.

    Now on to the more durastic stuff.....

    Well, Swalot is really really not a very good pokemon, it gets seriously dominated by every SAtker. What i think you should do here is Take this out for a defensive Roserade. Roserade also adds another aspect to your team that you really need: Spikes. Spikes+SR is really needed on a stall team. Roserade can be a Special Wall while adding, Spikes, actually Strong attacks, Aromatherapist and another Form of Recovery.
    Suggestion: Change Swalot into Roserade.
  5. Sc4rfCh0mp

    Sc4rfCh0mp

    Joined:
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    I did consider Toxic Spikes, but felt that it would interfere with all of the status I'm spreading already.

    I noticed that Swalot didn't do much, and lack of recovery really hurt me.


    Ok, so everyone is giving me the same suggestions: Add more Recovery, bring in Spikes/T-Spikes, and get a Spin Blocker. Recovery I can easily change by giving Clefable Wish>>Trick. I can then sub out Swalot for a Spiking Froslass. Uxie can then be replaced with a Roserade that can set up T-Spikes, and place SR>> Explosion on Registeel. THoughts?
  6. Croconaw Guy

    Croconaw Guy

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    Your solution seems really thrown together imo. for example, replacing Uxie pretty much guarantees that fighters are going to fuck your team over, which is a really bad thing given how threatening they are in UUs. I think Nidoqueen would be a much better solution, though I'm not a huge fan of Toxic Spikes in general. Either way, it can set up Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock, and at least provide a buffer against some fighting types.

    I am also not sold on Clefable as the only thing that is passing recovery around. It's a very risky method imo since you're basically hoping it stays alive the entire match or enough of it at least, and everything else is still going to take damage switching into SR and whatever the opponent is hurling at you. Wish is really easy to take advantage of, and running such a "risky" recovery method for your whole team probably isn't wise. I think Rest + cleric support is a far better option to use here. I suggest defensive Shaymin with Aromatherapy over Tangrowth and Rest on walls that really need it. Using unreliable things on stall teams is never good since they can't function without a reliable and healthy core.

    I really don't see the use of Arcanine here. The only thing is really does is stop some fire-types, and SR screws it over quickly anyways (even with Wish support, it dies pretty fast). I suggest Milotic >>> Arcanine to provide a more reliable wall that isn't SR weak, and it has better defenses and a good recovery move. Of course, it also take fire-type attacks. I would consider making it focused on taking special hits since it actually does that better than taking physical, and your team lacks a true special wall.

    To recap, this would mean your team would be:

    Milotic
    Shaymin
    Clefable
    Registeel
    Froslass
    Nidoqueen / Uxie

    I mean, it looks pretty solid. You have Staraptor troubles, but everybody does. Just outpredict it and wear it down quickly with SR and your attacks. I actually don't think Nidoqueen is necessary as long as you have plenty of Toxic (though that might not be possible, so eh) and basically all of the team bar Milotic can cope with Toxic Spikes (and it does have Marvel Scale after all). Of course, Claydol can kill two birds with one stone here, but I don't want to go around making too many changes since this is your team, not mine.
  7. Sc4rfCh0mp

    Sc4rfCh0mp

    Joined:
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    Your suggestions seem really sound. I was going over the team with a member from PC earlier today. He recommended some changes similar to yours. I'll add those now.

    I'll also implement some things you suggested, like Milotic>> Arcanine, and defensive Shaymin>> Tangrowth.
  8. Croconaw Guy

    Croconaw Guy

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    You know I'm Anti from PC right lol

    But anyways, the whole point of using Shaymin over Tangrowth (and btw its bases are all 100, not 105) was for Aromatherapy support, which it isn't even utilizing, so you might as well either sticky with Tangrowth or using something other than Roserade since it's a pretty bad Aromatherapist and isn't the sturdiest Spiker in the world either.

    By the way, on Shaymin, HP Fighting is REALLY worthless lol. Seed Flare already does way more to Steelix and Rock-Types. Almost every Steel-type has another type than makes Seed Flare crush it, and Registeel laughs at HP Fighting. Supereffective doesn't mean as much as you'd think.

    Why is Thunder Wave on Registeel when you're abusing Toxic Spikes? Use Toxic or Rest (so Raikou can't wear you down) or something, but not Thunder Wave. I don't know, something still feels wrong about this team, but maybe I'm just being too nitpicky.
  9. MapleSandwich

    MapleSandwich

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    The team is much more solid now than it was in your first post. However, you're still missing one thing: (p)hazing. In addition to stacking up the indirect damage from (toxic)spikes and SR, it also prevents Pokémon such as CMSub Mismagius from wrecking you, as that happened yesterday during the finals of the UU Smogon Tour. You can't do anything to it without a Roarer. I personally use Roar on Nidoqueen, as most Pokémon who fear being phazed carry attacks to take out Steelix. Slowbro is the only Pokémon I can think of off the top of my head who would have a water attack to handle both of them, and Milotic can generally handle him.
  10. Sc4rfCh0mp

    Sc4rfCh0mp

    Joined:
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    Actually, there was something wrong with this team. It doesn't like the weather much. Hail teams have a field day with this. I am considering StallRein to take advantage of other hail teams. Until then, I'm going to follow Maple's advice and get rid of Shaymin for a Phazer. Right now, I'm going with Hariyama.

    Oh, I want to use T-Wave on Registeel for paraflinch. I'll test Toxic out though.
  11. Croconaw Guy

    Croconaw Guy

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    It's not going to paraflinch something that's poisoned anyways >_> Besides, those "gee I hope it flinches!" strategies are pretty bad, especially on Registeel.

    Also, Hariyama's EVs have OHKOing Tyranitar with Force Palm in mind, so you might want to bolster its defenses (and use Brick Break as well since you have like fifty moves that conflict with Toxic Spikes as it is o.O) Use Ice Punch as well since low auccracy and PP on a defensive Pokemon usually sucks pretty bad.

    I still don't like the lack of Rapid Spin support and the relative inability of this team to hurt anything in the air (the stuff that avoids your Spikes). That might be the source of some of your problems.
  12. chaos 9

    chaos 9

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    Sup

    Other than your hail weakness, which can be remedied by putting a weather user on your team, maybe rain or sun on roserade over aromatherapy as its main job will be spikes, and it will probably die before it can even get all 5 layers down, You are weak to Staraptor. (who isn't?) To help fix this, I would either put steelix over registeel, or make sure that your registeel dosen't die. Steelix can handle staraptor a bit better, albeit that they share that crippling CC weak, as it can roar. But you just have to realize that your steel is the lynchpin of your team and keeping it alive should be a top priority. If you keep registeel, I would also put ice punch over earthquake to help kill staraptor. Either Steelix or registeel works against your weakness, so it's really your personal preference on which you choose. Like I said steels=important.

    -chaos 9
  13. Sc4rfCh0mp

    Sc4rfCh0mp

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    I see your point, but Registeel is my only answer against Raikou. Is there a different option I can use to deal with Staraptor?

    I can see the point on Aroma, considering that I have 2 status abosrbers.

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