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Grass/Fairy Bellossom (I don't know if this would be OP or not)
I'm not sure if "What if *Pokemon* was NU" theorymons would be acceptable, because I was thinking of a theorymon of Trevenant in NU. (The only currently UU Pokemon that wouldn't be OP in NU IMO; Slow, not that bulky, somewhat bad typing, but kind of annoying) I doubt that stuff like that would be accepted, but it would be cool to see Trev in NU nevertheless.
Giving Tauros a Normal-type move that is a 100% accuarte and at least 90BP with a secondary effect that it can abuse with Sheer Force. One of the biggest turn-offs when it comes to Tauros for me is its unreliable STAB move, I feel like Tauros would become instantly more loved.
Even I would love to use roost Mantine and Recover Uxie, I still choose Glaceon. Because Gamefreak hates Eevolotions and Ice types; it ended up being both. There is no other reason a pokemon that is almost entirely ice can't get that move. Instead it has Ice Shard, Synchronise and Shadow Ball. It deserves every boost that it can get.
Even I would love to use roost Mantine and Recover Uxie, I still choose Glaceon. Because Gamefreak hates Eevolotions and Ice types; it ended up being both. There is no other reason a pokemon that is almost entirely ice can't get that move. Instead it has Ice Shard, Synchronise and Shadow Ball. It deserves every boost that it can get.
I completely agree, most Eeveeloutions are outclassed, or just mediocre at best, but Glacion has to be the bottom of the bottom, a bulky ice type? what were they thinking. Honestly though, its typing is still horrific, while having Mediocre bulk. 65/110/95 are manageable, but its typing is its main flaw.
But for next slate id suggest Strong Jaw Luxray and Ice/Water Beartic. Luxray relies on its coverage moves in Ice Fang, Fire Fang, Superpower, and Crunch, 3 of which would get the boost to make their damage output manageable.
Beartic would get some nice resistances, and Loose some useful Weaknesses to help it play more as a bulky attacker. It also gets Aqua Jet which would get STAB, and Dive (I wouldn't) as well as swift swim for all you rain team users. An ice type swift swimmer? It catches the eye a bit for me.
The only problem I'd have with Roost Mantine is that I'd have a hard time choosing between that and my choice for Mantine Ability: Volt Absorb (or lightningrod,) but Mantine probably prefers healing over power.)
Being only weak to rocks is a huge boon. Would it be too good an ability?
These are all great. I personally think however, Roost Mantine has to be the best. No more fucking RestTalk (more like 80% chance to choose rest gdi sleep talk), and it can literally just spend the entire match spreading burns. Recover Uxie is my follow-up. It pretty much can come in multiple times and set up Dual Screens, and stops itself from being worn down. Freeze-dry Glaceon is cool and all, but it really just seems mediocre compared to the others, who can actually perform their roles much betterdue to the buffs.
no voting actually, we should just keep it to discussion, and like scorpdestroyer said "everything is a competition smh " lol
Sweet, first time on the slate, but imma leave my 2 cents Mach Punch Pangoro- I like it, Pangoro is slow enough to take advantage of the STAB priority it would give it a hard time between picking Stone edge and Poison Jab for coverage. Strong Jaw Luxray- Its my theorymon read my post lol Solid Rock Regirock- "Instead of giving this bulky mon a recovery move, lets just give it a tanking ability" I just hate rock as a defensive typing, it doesn't pack too many resistances, its weak to 3 priority moves in Bullet Punch, Mach Punch and Aqua Jet, and just has a ton of common weaknesses to. Volt Absorb Mantine- Nifty idea, not much to it, trades an immunity for a better one.
Solid Rock Regirock- "Instead of giving this bulky mon a recovery move, lets just give it a tanking ability" I just hate rock as a defensive typing, it doesn't pack too many resistances, its weak to 3 priority moves in Bullet Punch, Mach Punch and Aqua Jet, and just has a ton of common weaknesses to.
I suggested this, and I guess I'm going to have to back it up because you have such faulty reasoning.
Anyways, I think it's pretty stupid each slate to pull off the whole "bulky mon with recovery" theorymon. It just makes everything redundant. We literally just had two theorymons following this rule.
I'm not too sure you know what Solid Rock does, but it cuts down the damage of super-effective attacks. And here's basically why it's good:
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 131-158 (35.9 - 43.4%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
That's an uninvested in Defense FERALIGATR super-effective STAB attack on Regirock, failing to guarantee the 3HKO. Now of course, any competent player wouldn't keep Regirock in, but still. Still not convinced?
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 270-320 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Don't get me wrong, you'll have to invest completely for this, but a base 120 BP super-effective Choice Banded STAB attack failing to OHKO? I'd say that's pretty good.
Also:
it doesn't pack too many resistances, its weak to 3 priority moves in Bullet Punch, Mach Punch and Aqua Jet
How susceptible to priority are you? I mean, anything with priority doesn't really do...anything.
252+ Atk Gurdurr Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 51-63 (14 - 17.3%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 66-82 (18.1 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 131-158 (35.9 - 43.4%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Hariyama Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Solid Rock Regirock: 34-42 (9.3 - 11.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
The entire concept of using Solid Rock Regirock is just to make setting up Stealth Rock easier, or shutting down wallbreakers easily. It's not supposed to be like "NOW THAT I PUT MY REGIROCK HERE, IT'S GOING TO BE INVINCABLE!" I mean, it really is just supposed to be even more of a tank, pretty much.
252 Atk Archeops Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 94-112 (25.8 - 30.7%) -- 6.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 129-152 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- 73.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 140-166 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 145-172 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 164-192 (45 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I reeeeaaallllyyyy hope I didn't come off as rude (I'm actually really nice, I bake cookies for my neighborhood on Sundays!), but I just want to put justice where it's due, of course.
TL;DR: this thing is just to function better as a wall, and it isn't as susceptible as it seems
I suggested this, and I guess I'm going to have to back it up because you have such faulty reasoning.
Anyways, I think it's pretty stupid each slate to pull off the whole "bulky mon with recovery" theorymon. It just makes everything redundant. We literally just had two theorymons following this rule.
I'm not too sure you know what Solid Rock does, but it cuts down the damage of super-effective attacks. And here's basically why it's good:
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 131-158 (35.9 - 43.4%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
That's an uninvested in Defense FERALIGATR super-effective STAB attack on Regirock, failing to guarantee the 3HKO. Now of course, any competent player wouldn't keep Regirock in, but still. Still not convinced?
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 270-320 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Don't get me wrong, you'll have to invest completely for this, but a base 120 BP super-effective Choice Banded STAB attack failing to OHKO? I'd say that's pretty good.
Also:
How susceptible to priority are you? I mean, anything with priority doesn't really do...anything.
252+ Atk Gurdurr Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 51-63 (14 - 17.3%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 66-82 (18.1 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 131-158 (35.9 - 43.4%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Hariyama Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Solid Rock Regirock: 34-42 (9.3 - 11.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
The entire concept of using Solid Rock Regirock is just to make setting up Stealth Rock easier, or shutting down wallbreakers easily. It's not supposed to be like "NOW THAT I PUT MY REGIROCK HERE, IT'S GOING TO BE INVINCABLE!" I mean, it really is just supposed to be even more of a tank, pretty much.
252 Atk Archeops Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 94-112 (25.8 - 30.7%) -- 6.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 129-152 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- 73.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 140-166 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 145-172 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Regirock: 164-192 (45 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I reeeeaaallllyyyy hope I didn't come off as rude (I'm actually really nice, I bake cookies for my neighborhood on Sundays!), but I just want to put justice where it's due, of course.
TL;DR: this thing is just to function better as a wall, and it isn't as susceptible as it seems
Not at all i know how you feel we have had a lot of give this mon a recovery move, but the regis are known for that being the nail in their coffin as tanks. I never said it was worthless i know what solid rock does, great ability weakens super effective hits, and regirock was a bad example for my priority rant, its slow so you wouldn't use priority anyway against it, i guess i just had more offensive rock types like terrakion on the mind, I might've come off as saying its worthless but i didn't run calcs and didn't say it was terrible i just kinda bashed on rock types being defensively bad type wise, didn't mean to come off as it being worthless
Mach Punch Pangoro- Iron Fist Mach Punch is really cool, and it helps offset Pangoro's poor speed by a fair margin. The threat of Mach Punch means it is likely to force more switches now, which it can take advantage of with Parting Shot and whatnot. I like it.
Strong Jaw Luxray- Not a good theorymon imo. Luxray hardly ever needs the elemental Fangs or even Crunch to my knowledge. It doesn't fix its main problems, aka bad Speed and lackluster STAB, all Strong Jaw Luxray would get is slightly better coverage moves, which it doesn't really ever need since Superpower or Guts Facade already covers almost all of its targets, while Tough Jaws Crunch is overkill on Rotom anyway. Guts in general provides a greater 1.5 boost to all of its moves, especially Facade which becomes Luxray's best neutral attack (this says a lot already), so a 1.33 1.5 boost to only biting attacks, which is sometimes doesn't even use, really doesn't seem helpful.
Solid Rock Regirock- This one is probably my personal favorite among the theorymons. Solid Rock is really useful to help a bulky Poke without recovery like Regirock sponge up attacks, including especially coverage moves, allowing to check things like Fires and Archeops to a much better degree. This can lighten the burden in terms of EV placement on Regirock, meaning it can gear towards both defenses effectively, or even its offenses, since Drain Punch recovery can make Solid Rock more worthwhile.
Volt Absorb Mantine- I would've jumped at the prospect at eliminating a 4x weakness, but there just aren't that many Electric-types in the tier outside of Rotom, or even Electric-type moves for that matter. Water Absorb is less useful overall but Water attacks are more common in the tier, especially Scald. Reliable recovery in Roost was the better theorymon, though there wasn't much to say about it other than "that's pretty swell." :/
Why not Tough Claws Luxray > Strong Jaw? Wild Charge and Superpower get boosted as well as those fang moves, and it's a Lion so it has claws anyway. It would make Luxray like, somewhat worth it some of the time over E-vire as opposed to still painfully mediocre.
I really like Mach Punch Pangoro the best out of all of them though. I'd rather use Scrappy > Iron Fist for it though, since:
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom: 129-153 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mismagius: 157-186 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You do lose quite a bit of power, but I think the general utility of not having anything immune to your priority outweighs the damage boost.
Mach Punch Pangoro- Iron Fist Mach Punch is really cool, and it helps offset Pangoro's poor speed by a fair margin. The threat of Mach Punch means it is likely to force more switches now, which it can take advantage of with Parting Shot and whatnot. I like it.
Strong Jaw Luxray- Not a good theorymon imo. Luxray hardly ever needs the elemental Fangs or even Crunch to my knowledge. It doesn't fix its main problems, aka bad Speed and lackluster STAB, all Strong Jaw Luxray would get is slightly better coverage moves, which it doesn't really ever need since Superpower or Guts Facade already covers almost all of its targets, while Tough Jaws Crunch is overkill on Rotom anyway. Guts in general provides a greater 1.5 boost to all of its moves, especially Facade which becomes Luxray's best neutral attack (this says a lot already), so a 1.33 boost to biting attacks, which is sometimes doesn't even use, really doesn't seem helpful.
Solid Rock Regirock- This one is probably my personal favorite among the theorymons. Solid Rock is really useful to help a bulky Poke without recovery like Regirock sponge up attacks, including especially coverage moves, allowing to check things like Fires and Archeops to a much better degree. This can lighten the burden in terms of EV placement on Regirock, meaning it can gear towards both defenses effectively, or even its offenses, since Drain Punch recovery can make Solid Rock more worthwhile.
Volt Absorb Mantine- I would've jumped at the prospect at eliminating a 4x weakness, but there just aren't that many Electric-types in the tier outside of Rotom, or even Electric-type moves for that matter. Water Absorb is less useful overall but Water attacks are more common in the tier, especially Scald. Reliable recovery in Roost was the better theorymon, though there wasn't much to say about it other than "that's pretty swell." :/
Strong Jaw is 1.5, so its the same as a guts boost, but the further posts, yea tough claws would've been a better suggestion to make, i just thought strong jaw because its fang moves are the first to come to mind. Plus the 1.3 tough claws boosts more than makes up for the slight drop in damage multiplier, since it can use wild charge instead
Tbh I pretty much agree with what Punchshroom said for most of these, but I'll try to add some other points of view.
Mach Punch Pangoro: I personally like this one the most since Pangoro is one of my favorite Gen VI Pokemon. Banded sets do appreciate the priority to make up for the low speed. He does suffer a bit from 4MSS now, either giving up stronger Fighting STAB or coverage against Fairies. I don't see Sky Uppercut being used as much anymore, since Hammer Arm's speed drop can be mitigated by Mach Punch now, though it could still have some uses. The most intriguing addition for me is the increased viability of Feraligatr-esque Swords Dance sets, boasting a Mach Punch that's 33% stronger than Gatr's Aqua Jet (outside of Torrent), although he is slower otherwise which could limit overall sweeping.
Strong Jaw Luxray: This one is hard for me since Strong Jaw is not a great ability in general. Luxray would have made the best use of it if he was part Dark-type, but alas. I should note that Thunder Fang is now a decent STAB move, being 97.5 BP with a decent chance at secondary effects. And Ice Fang and Crunch are both listed in the sample set for Luxray in the Strategy Dex (although the set looks like filler at this point). Still, the power boost by Guts is just as much as the boost by Strong Jaw, and it affects all of his moves, while those worried about longevity would probably prefer Intimidate.
Solid Rock Regirock: Agree wholeheartedly with Mysteria that this is more interesting than just giving him recovery even though it's probably more effective. Interestingly enough, he could very likely avoid the 2HKO from DDGatr's Waterfall at +1 with Solid Rock and full defenses. That said, I agree with the assertion that Fire-types and Archeops are the best gains from this boost. He will need some SpDef investment to avoid the 2HKO from some of the Focus Blasts though, and even fully invested in Special Defense can't avoid the 2HKO from Specs Magmortar.
Volt Absorb Mantine: This is one where kind of I scratch my head, since I don't see the flavor. There are some benefits, though. Beating the Rotoms is pretty cool, and you do destroy standard Magmortar now. You also beat any ghosts that run stray Thunderbolt coverage, although this is pretty rare. The biggest change I see is support Mesprit would almost have to run Psyshock over Psychic though, since Mantine does hard wall and get a easy Defog on them otherwise.
For me, strong jaw luxray is the best of these 4. Since its release in gen 4 luxray has been scrabbling to find a niche that makes it viable in any of the current metagames and to no avail. Strong jaw would make a life orb set with a number of fang and crunch moves extremely scary and provide an alternative to the common electivire.
I'll venture one: drain punch Hariyama. Hariyama's major flaw behind gurdurr is that it has no means of recovery to add to its massive power. With drain punch, Hariyama could increase its longevity and generally allow it to do more work per battle.
Everyone's discussed most the suggestions enough, so I'll just say that Mach Punch Pangoro is definitely my favorite. This helps mitigate its speed problem obviously, but choosing between Scrappy to bypass immunities and Iron Fist for more power is your new problem.
Suggestion: Samurott with Mold Breaker
On the special set, Mold Breaker lets Otter bypass Water Absorb on Seismitoad and always score a 2HKO with Hydro Pump after rocks which allows it to drop HP Grass/Grass Knot and instead use HP Fire which lets Otter do this do Ferroseed: 252+ SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Samurott Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 250-296 (85.6 - 101.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. This means Otter can effectively get past the Plume/Toad core while also beating Ferroseed and still running Taunt in the last slot. Physical sets can still use Mold Breaker to get past Seismitoad with Waterfall rather than unreliable Megahorn, but in general they still might want to use Torrent and even some special sets that use Sub might still prefer Torrent. Overall Mold Breaker does give Otter a new solid niche over Gatr and other Offensive Waters.
So it's been longer than a week. So before I post a new slate, I'd like to hear some new suggestions for the slate itself, besides the ones posted above.
I feel like most people have said what can be said about the current slate, but with regards to Strong Jaw Luxray, I still can't see how it isn't outclassed by Electivire who possesses higher speed and isn't forced to rely on guts to deal significant damage which severely hampers Luxray's above-average bulk. I feel something like Sheer Force would be more beneficial to it and would be a more reliable niche in conjunction with its good movepool for an electric-type, many of which have secondary-effects. Of the suggested mons, my favourite is definitely Volt-Absorb Mantine who keeps gains a far more useful immunity, although water-type moves are far more common in NU than electric moves.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere else thus far, but I feel that Flash-Fire Pyroar would be a cool thing to discuss. I searched around for good stuff in NU that functions well without a particularly noteworthy ability, and Pyroar caught my eye. Ironically Pyroar would become a better check to itself (choice variants) as specs timid fire blast is already a guaranteed 2HKO: 252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pyroar: 167-197 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, meaning against ones with flash-fire one would need to be more careful about spamming fire-blast. Random Will-o-Wisps would also be handy to nab extra boosts from.
I feel Earth Power Sceptile would be worth discussing. It's special movepool is very shallow and earth power would help it. It can make dragalge and magmortar less of a problem so it gets an easier time to sweep
Have extremespeed be legal with lightningrod and volt tackle and give Pikachu a base 100 speed. Also, Xy gave pikachu a special defense "buff" he had base 40 spec defense now it's 50..Woo hoo, should have dropped the ten in speed and give pikachu a much better speed tier. Just a suggestion :3.
EDIT: How about electivire with volt tackle..that might get him sent to ru tho :o
I have a few suggestions. The first would be Air Slash Butterfree, as Butterfree lacks a Flying stab and might catch up with Vivillon (as it has tinted lens). The second would be Huge Power Plusle/Minun (Or even dedenne). This would give it an excellent attack stat, but not too overpowered due to the fact that it would get easily revenge killed. Reasoning for this: Azumarill got huge power, also the idea that the small can have great power. I don't thin its just slapping it on.
I feel that Mach punch hariyama would be Really cool. Not only does it help generally revenge more mons, but also creates a Bellydrum set viable which would be so legit. Maybe a set of like BD/Mach punch/bullet punch/knock off would work well. If hariyama has Mach punch it would also potentially create a cool surprise factor of if your running AV or BD, as both sets are quite viable. Lastly, hariyama could really run either guts or thick fat as an ability on the BD set, as thick fat would let it set up a BD on fire and ice types, but guts would let it set up on mons with wil o, which is probably preferred.
