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Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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I don't think it's contradictory to Cloyster or anything, but this is Greninja's signature move, and I don't foresee Cloyster ever getting it. It doesn't seem very ninja...y. But it's really not a big deal, or an outright destruction of Cloyster's character as we know it. Just a little odd.
I'm going to have to go with Defog Whimsicott because scald Blissey would be unholy, Water Shuriken Cloyster doesn't sound too fun since it doesn't get stopped by much that isn't named Escavalier (lol dry skin) and Electric/Dark Luxray is already a thing in Drayano hacks is too slowand doesn't have enough bulk to capitalize on it.
i thought we were making pokemon better in OU, not making them Ubers? Scald Blissey is too much. I alsobe think Defog Whimsicott would be broken as well as it would literally be the end of hazards
Giving Luxray a dark typing doesn't do much to fix his shortcomings (his speed and still pretty bad movepool)
Water Shuriken Cloyster gets my vote, it actually does something without it going over the top. It gives him a great priority move, with including stab is 112.5. Only STAB Sucker Punches, STAB Extremespeeds, and Talonflame's Brave Bird are stronger. He'll be ready to fuck shit up.
Giving Luxray a dark typing doesn't do much to fix his shortcomings (his speed and still pretty bad movepool)
Water Shuriken Cloyster gets my vote, it actually does something without it going over the top. It gives him a great priority move, with including stab is 112.5. Only STAB Sucker Punches, STAB Extremespeeds, and Talonflame's Brave Bird are stronger. He'll be ready to fuck shit up.
Electric / Dark Luxray
don't get what Cloyster provides to the meta, seems like a buff that affects only it
don't get what Cloyster provides to the meta, seems like a buff that affects only it
Scald Blissey would just be pure cancer and everyone knows it.
Electric/Dark Luxray
Electric/Dark Luxray
Honestly I'd love it if there was an a pokemon that was the end of hazards, as I really don't think stealth rock makes the game any better or more strategic (not that I think Defog Whimsicott is the end of hazards by any mean, as they can still be set up whenever and many Stealth Rock setters can do serious damage to Whimsicott on the taunt.).
Electric/Dark Luxray
unpopular, but I'm going with
Defog Whimsicott
I don't like WS Cloyster, Scald Blissey is interesting, and Electric / Dark brings something now to an otherwise forgotten Pokemon. However, Whimsicott is actually a really good supportive Pokemon already with Stun Spore, Encore, Tailwind, Switcheroo, and Taunt, as well as U-turn. This adds to its supportive repertoire, which is nice, considering it does force switches. Whimsicott is a great defense against things like Garchomp and Keldeo (if not locked into HP Flying), so the ability to take advantage of the forced switch that isn't para'ing something is pretty cool.
Defog Whimsicott
I don't like WS Cloyster, Scald Blissey is interesting, and Electric / Dark brings something now to an otherwise forgotten Pokemon. However, Whimsicott is actually a really good supportive Pokemon already with Stun Spore, Encore, Tailwind, Switcheroo, and Taunt, as well as U-turn. This adds to its supportive repertoire, which is nice, considering it does force switches. Whimsicott is a great defense against things like Garchomp and Keldeo (if not locked into HP Flying), so the ability to take advantage of the forced switch that isn't para'ing something is pretty cool.
Water Shuriken Cloyster - This thing is a reality in STABmons, and if I'm not mistaken it is stupidly powerful. It can now take down Talonflame and Mega Scizor who could otherwise seriously dent/beat it before, respectively, with priority of their own.
Defog Whimsicott - Whimsy has plenty of 4MSS as it is, and I think it would be better to give priority Defog to somebody else.
Electric/Dark Luxray - I don't really know if STAB Crunch is worth the Fighting weakness. Luxray is notorious for not being a fast Electric type (even with a Scarf, Meganectric outspeeds it), but it might be worth discussing.
Scald Blissey - Same boat as Cloyster here. The only reason Blissey's not A- or S-Rank is because of Eviolite on her little sis, and it would be terrifyingly bulky with max investment and a burn. Seriously, look at this:
252+ Atk Choice Band burned Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 582-685 (81.5 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Just with a burn, it's surviving a Max+ CB SE STAB move from a base 129 Attack. (If Blissey gets a burn on the switch, this is actually a realistic calc)
Electric/Dark Luxray it is.
Defog Whimsicott - Whimsy has plenty of 4MSS as it is, and I think it would be better to give priority Defog to somebody else.
Electric/Dark Luxray - I don't really know if STAB Crunch is worth the Fighting weakness. Luxray is notorious for not being a fast Electric type (even with a Scarf, Meganectric outspeeds it), but it might be worth discussing.
Scald Blissey - Same boat as Cloyster here. The only reason Blissey's not A- or S-Rank is because of Eviolite on her little sis, and it would be terrifyingly bulky with max investment and a burn. Seriously, look at this:
252+ Atk Choice Band burned Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 582-685 (81.5 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Just with a burn, it's surviving a Max+ CB SE STAB move from a base 129 Attack. (If Blissey gets a burn on the switch, this is actually a realistic calc)
Electric/Dark Luxray it is.
Water Shuriken Cloyster: This essentially fills in for wherever Razor Shell would be, and is a good attack on Cloyster in general. This also lets him get past... umm... Focus Sashers...? Even though Icicle Spear and Rock Blast do that too. Yeah, there are only two reasons that I'd ever use this over Razor Shell; priority and taking out Sash Mamoswine, and even then, I'd still prefer Razor Shell since just the threat of a 50% chance defense drop can seriously put pressure on my opponent. Not a bad buff, by any means, just not one that really sticks out for me.
Defog Whimsicott: Now this I can get into. Defog + Prankster is definitely an interesting combo to try out, and I think Whimsicott can excel at utilizing this. Defog is great at removing hazards, but another cool trait is that she also has Taunt, so she can get rid of hazards, and prevent them from being put down in the first place, which can put some pressure on defensive Pokemon. This isn't a dramatically great buff, but a good buff, nonetheless.
Electric/Dark Luxray: Flavorwise, this is excellent. Battlewise, almost equally excellent. Electric/Dark coverage is great, only resisted by a few Pokemon in the game, notable ones being Breloom, Hydreigon, Krookodile, and Chesnaught, though all four are hit super effectively by his coverage in either Superpower or the elemental fangs. Having resistances to Ghost- and Dark-type moves is highly valued this gen, and getting STAB on his Crunch helps a bit. Though his flaws in low speed and only passable bulk really put some pressure on him, and now he also carries weaknesses to Fighting-, Bug-, and Fairy-type moves. Though to fix his bulk problem, an Assault Vest/Intimidate combo set, coupled with a Guts boost, could really carry him the extra mile. I may have been biased about him in the past, but I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
Scald Blissey: This sounds interesting, punishing physical attackers as they switch in and potentially crippling them. This would potentially make Blissey an unbreakable wall, capable of crippling any physically attacking Pokemon in the game aside from Fire-types and those with abilities that make them immune to Water (And our last Theorymon was Dry Skin Escavalier. Coincidence?). That said, Mega Charizard X, Conkeldurr, and those with Substitute, such as Kyurem-B and (Mega) Gyarados will still be problematic, and people may forgo Natural Cure for Serene Grace, just so Scald will burn 60% of the time, which really isn't worth it, imo, since the ability to get rid of status without using a move is amazing for longevity, and is an invaluable asset in general. And even if Scald burnt 100% of the time, 4-moveslot syndrome strikes again, with other options such as Aromatherapy, Wish, Softboiled, Seismic Toss, and Protect being very important, it can be a little hard to fit it in without losing an important move. A good idea, just a little hard to add in with just 4 moveslots.
My vote goes to Electric/Dark Luxray, since I feel that his presence would be the most interesting one to experience.
Defog Whimsicott: Now this I can get into. Defog + Prankster is definitely an interesting combo to try out, and I think Whimsicott can excel at utilizing this. Defog is great at removing hazards, but another cool trait is that she also has Taunt, so she can get rid of hazards, and prevent them from being put down in the first place, which can put some pressure on defensive Pokemon. This isn't a dramatically great buff, but a good buff, nonetheless.
Electric/Dark Luxray: Flavorwise, this is excellent. Battlewise, almost equally excellent. Electric/Dark coverage is great, only resisted by a few Pokemon in the game, notable ones being Breloom, Hydreigon, Krookodile, and Chesnaught, though all four are hit super effectively by his coverage in either Superpower or the elemental fangs. Having resistances to Ghost- and Dark-type moves is highly valued this gen, and getting STAB on his Crunch helps a bit. Though his flaws in low speed and only passable bulk really put some pressure on him, and now he also carries weaknesses to Fighting-, Bug-, and Fairy-type moves. Though to fix his bulk problem, an Assault Vest/Intimidate combo set, coupled with a Guts boost, could really carry him the extra mile. I may have been biased about him in the past, but I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
Scald Blissey: This sounds interesting, punishing physical attackers as they switch in and potentially crippling them. This would potentially make Blissey an unbreakable wall, capable of crippling any physically attacking Pokemon in the game aside from Fire-types and those with abilities that make them immune to Water (And our last Theorymon was Dry Skin Escavalier. Coincidence?). That said, Mega Charizard X, Conkeldurr, and those with Substitute, such as Kyurem-B and (Mega) Gyarados will still be problematic, and people may forgo Natural Cure for Serene Grace, just so Scald will burn 60% of the time, which really isn't worth it, imo, since the ability to get rid of status without using a move is amazing for longevity, and is an invaluable asset in general. And even if Scald burnt 100% of the time, 4-moveslot syndrome strikes again, with other options such as Aromatherapy, Wish, Softboiled, Seismic Toss, and Protect being very important, it can be a little hard to fit it in without losing an important move. A good idea, just a little hard to add in with just 4 moveslots.
My vote goes to Electric/Dark Luxray, since I feel that his presence would be the most interesting one to experience.
Water Shuriken Cloyster
Good to see Luxray slated, and I'm obviously voting for my own idea. For one, I'm biased against just a move addition because there isn't much room for discussion so the after-voting discussion usually dies down quite quickly.
Just giving some reasoning why I suggested that retype in the first place, A Flying resist and Ghost resist is especially useful this gen, especially one with Intimidate. With only HP investments, it switches safely into Aegislash as Sacred Sword still fails to 2HKO without a boosting item, Talonflame locked in Brave Bird, and Pinsir with a Balloon. Even +2 (+3 with Intimidate) Bisharp fails to KO while Superpower cleanly OHKOs. Deoxys-S and Thundurus both fails to 2HKO with LO Superpower and their main STAB are ineffective or resisted respectively. Hence it turns out to check some of the most top tier pokemons thanks to the combination of typing and ability, which seems to be good to have. Luxray is mostly previously outclassed by the multitude of Electric types in the tier, but being able to manhandle most notably Deoxys-S and Aegislash is a nice thing to have.
EDIT:
Just giving some reasoning why I suggested that retype in the first place, A Flying resist and Ghost resist is especially useful this gen, especially one with Intimidate. With only HP investments, it switches safely into Aegislash as Sacred Sword still fails to 2HKO without a boosting item, Talonflame locked in Brave Bird, and Pinsir with a Balloon. Even +2 (+3 with Intimidate) Bisharp fails to KO while Superpower cleanly OHKOs. Deoxys-S and Thundurus both fails to 2HKO with LO Superpower and their main STAB are ineffective or resisted respectively. Hence it turns out to check some of the most top tier pokemons thanks to the combination of typing and ability, which seems to be good to have. Luxray is mostly previously outclassed by the multitude of Electric types in the tier, but being able to manhandle most notably Deoxys-S and Aegislash is a nice thing to have.
EDIT:
I tried really hard not to LOL at this.
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Electric/Dark Luxray for sure, since that's bloody well what he should have been all along (and when I first saw him all those years ago, that's what I assumed he was).
Water Shuriken Cloyster does make good sense too, but I personally loathe the thing and the brainless Shell Smash set would become even more brainless and more annoying to revenge, especially with a King's Rock.
Water Shuriken Cloyster does make good sense too, but I personally loathe the thing and the brainless Shell Smash set would become even more brainless and more annoying to revenge, especially with a King's Rock.
Water Shuriken Cloyster
(Scald Blissey is evil incarnate Alex, lol)
(Scald Blissey is evil incarnate Alex, lol)
water shuriken on something with skill link sounds like a "mindless offensive buff" to me
electric/dark luxray
electric/dark luxray
Defog Whimsicott
Water Shuriken Cloyster
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