Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

[trc]

Protean Porygon2

Greninja is currently the only viable Protean user, as Kecleon is simply garbage and has no niche in OU. That being said, I think that Porygon2 is a perfect candidate for Protean. It already has impressive natural bulk, which becomes excellent with an Eviolite, which means that Protean could potentially see some use in a defensive role, rather than an offensive one. While Porygon2 could still function well offensively with Thunderbolt and Ice Beam, the fact that it would be able to change its type to fulfill a defensive role is simple brilliant. It would enable Porygon2 to wall a different variety of Pokemon simply by changing its type as they switch in. While not a common option on Porygon2, it can run Shadow Ball, which would effectively enable it to turn itself into the Ghost-type as a check comes in, and then they wouldn't be able to destroy it with their STAB move, causing the opponent to resort to weak coverage moves.

 

[Magnemite]

Protean Porygon2

 

[higglybiggly]

You don't necessarily have to view protean as some complex defensive ability. I think the ability to have amazing bulk and wall a variety of pokemon while hitting back very hard is it's main catch. That's my view on Protean Porygon2. It doesn't have the movepool to effectively utilize a complex defensive protean set. It could probably pull something out of it's ass with magnet rise and trick room and stuff but nothing really stands out. Just the fact that it can tank hits and hit back hard is an astounding feat, since it doesn't have to invest in spA to get great coverage AND power.

 

[amzaneok]

You don't necessarily have to view protean as some complex defensive ability. I think the ability to have amazing bulk and wall a variety of pokemon while hitting back very hard is it's main catch. That's my view on Protean Porygon2. It doesn't have the movepool to effectively utilize a complex defensive protean set. It could probably pull something out of it's ass with magnet rise and trick room and stuff but nothing really stands out. Just the fact that it can tank hits and hit back hard is an astounding feat, since it doesn't have to invest in spA to get great coverage AND power.

It already has Analytic for that.

 

[higglybiggly]

It already has Analytic for that.

Well Analytic has 1.3x boost while protean gives it a 1.5x boost on all damaging moves. I guess the type changing isn't so beneficial in your eyes, but it would still take the same damage from neutral attacks, and it can be beneficial if predicted right. Though I will admit the type changing will force it out on several occasions.

 

[Yayz]

Looking at the Theorymons this week, I wasn't too impressed with the choices, but then I thought about them.

• Gale Wings Articuno (amzaneok)
• Protean Porygon2 (Molk)
• Dragon / Fairy Altaria (Cshadow)
• Rattled Emboar (U-Ralph)

Gale Wings Articuno: My first thought was "4x SR weakness, not good" then I remembered Talonflame is the exact same way. Ice is still bad defensive typing, and with flying, gives Articuno more weaknesses and no more resistances. Hurricane is a special Brave Bird, but with less accuracy instead of recoil. Were permaweather still in existence, it would easily the best choice. It still likes rain though.

Protean Porygon2: With good defenses (fantastic after Eviolite), 85 Hp, and 105 Sp Attack (higher than Greninja by 2!), this CPU is looking good. Recover would give it normal typing again, and with access to a lot of fun moves, it'll be a force to be reckoned with. Knock-off sucks, though.

Dragon / Fairy Altaria: I don't have much to say here, but walling both Mega Charizards is always a plus. I've liked Altaria design-wise, probably because it's gen 3, and I think I'd like it a lot.

Rattled Emboar: At first I thought rattled increased attack, which I thought was useless, but I see that it increases speed, which is a huge boon. +1 Max Speed gives you 376, which outspeeds max speed base 121s, if my math is right. Switch in to a knock-off or something, then wreck.

I'm not sure... I think I'll go with Protean Porygon2. It's a tough choice, and I think all of these pokes are worth looking into, perhaps in the future.

 

[Leafshield]

Dragon/Fairy Altaria

 

[Ashley11]

I have to go with Rattled Emboar because it benefits off of some of the most useful moves in the metagame atm bar stealth rocks, U-turn and Knock off. It could really benefit from a speed boost, as it has amazing attack and great move coverage to be able to punish the opponent. Knock off and U-turn are so common that the opponent would have to have one of them most likely. Rattled Emboar seems like an interesting pokemon to discuss about.

 

[Cshadow]

alexwolf already addressed this post, but he missed one major point in his rebuttal that I want to go over briefly.

nevermind, even with 252/184+ and haze, she still gets beat by Char-X at +1. Since a +1 Flare Blitz, then two +0 Flare Blitz's still kill it.

Why are you switching into a +1 Flare Blitz?

Dragon/Fairy-type Altaria counters both Charizard Y and Charizard X. Because of this, you have no reason not to switch Altaria in as soon they bring in Charizard. In recognizing that, Altaria is most likely going to be switching in on Charizard X's Dragon Dance, as an unboosted 252+ Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 184+ Def Altaria is a 3HKO at best. The scenario, then, plays out as follows:

1. Altaria switches in on the Dragon Dance.

• -12.5% from Stealth Rock.
• +6.25% from Leftovers.
• 93.75% health left.

2. Mega Charizard X uses Flare Blitz; Altaria uses Haze.

• +1 252+ Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 184+ Def Altaria: 48.5 - 57.3%.
• Assuming max damage rolls, Altaria loses 57.3% of its health.
• +6.25% from Leftovers.
• 42.7% health left.

3. Mega Charizard X uses Flare Blitz; Altaria uses Roost.

• +0 252+ Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 184+ Def Altaria: 32.3 - 38.3%.
• Assuming max damage rolls, Altaria loses 38.3% of its health.
• +50% from Roost.
• +6.25% from Leftovers.
• 60.65% health left.

Barring any unfortunate circumstances, Charizard X will either die from the recoil damage or get Toxic stalled (assuming he's running Roost). Charizard Y suffers a similar fate, as a Drought-boosted Fire Blast only does 39.4 - 46.5% to 244 HP / 80 SpD Natural Cure Altaria.

Altaria @ Leftovers
Bold Nature | 244 HP / 184 Def / 80 SpD
Natural Cure / Cloud Nine
- Roost
- Moonblast
- Toxic / Heal Bell
- Haze / Perish Song

Just in case there were still any doubts ;)

 

[JackTheGordie]

Dragon/Fairy Altaria

With charizard having become more common and dangerous as the metagame progresses, we still lack a universal megazard counter. Let's see if altaria can do the job

 

[amzaneok]

Well Analytic has 1.3x boost while protean gives it a 1.5x boost on all damaging moves. I guess the type changing isn't so beneficial in your eyes, but it would still take the same damage from neutral attacks, and it can be beneficial if predicted right. Though I will admit the type changing will force it out on several occasions.

I think it may just give me the fears because when I used to play with Porygon2, I used Ice Beam a LOT. I'd much rather stay a Normal-type with an Analytic boost than be crippled by changing to an Ice-type, and Thunderbolt is similar with the Earthquake weakness.

Thankfully it SHOULD have the power to KO what it needs to before the Ice-type is taken advantage of, but it still makes me uncomfortable.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Dragon / Fairy Altaria

(vote altaria or porygon guys... :P)

 

[Magcargo]

Dragon/Fairy Altaria
Makes a great counter to a large amount of Dragon-types with this new typing, while also checking certain, Fighting-, Water-, and Electric-types.

 

[ethan06]

Gale Wings Articuno. Really nothing else appealed to me.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

Dragon/Fairy Altaria
This looks like so much fun (why doesn't it get defog though).

 

[LoDart210]

I JUST DON'T WANT PROTEAN PORYGON2 TO WIN T____________T

I REALLY WANT GALE WINGS ARTICUNO OR DRAGON/FAIRY ALTARIA! COME ON GUYS YOU CAN DO IT

(Excuse the all caps I just recently watched FMA: Brotherhood, where Olivier trashes Alex and I'm a bit emotional)

 

[Aquaslash]

A shame my suggestion didn't make the cut, but all the same, Dragon/Fairy Altaria plz

 

[Mugenman88]

Protean Porygon2

Let's give our favorite defensive duck more ways to annoy people :P

 

[Salemance]

This is gonna be the closest one yet by the looks.....

 

[Red Cat]

Dragon / Fairy Altaria

 

[Nubbins]

Dragon/Fairy Altaria

For crazy cloud nine shennanigans and a godly defensive typing.

Can gale wings articuno even use hurricane? 70 accuracy is terrible irregardless of priority. I get roost though.

 

[AliasBot]

Protean Porygon2

 

[Shroomisaur]

I'd have to vote for Dragon/Fairy Altaria

Altaria would have a unique typing and rise from the depths of NU to gain a real niche in OU, so I'd love to see it.

Protean P2 sounds nice, but it's already viable and has multiple great abilities to choose from as it is. I'd rather see Protean added to a defensive, yet fast theorymon that could take advantage of the type changes defensively.

Question, how do we even nominate? Do we just post on your profile?

If you have a theorymon idea, just PM alexwolf.

 

[Groudon ex]

Dragon/Fairy Altaria

 

[Alter]

Dragon / Fairy Altaria for the reasons outlined by Shroomisaur and points raised by Cshadow. It's a very interesting concept.