Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

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Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Just because Ben Gay made one team with TR Conk doesn't mean it can only work well in TR...

I used Conkeldurr extensively and it is definitely a B rank Pokémon. For one, it makes an EXCELLENT lure to Jellicent and Skarmory, so Keldeo and most physical attackers make great partners. It destroys bulky Waters with Sheer Force ThunderPunch and OHKOs Landorus-T with Ice Punch through Intimidate. It can single-handedly dismantle teams with its insane power, coverage, and decent bulk (not to mention the ability to regain health with Drain Punch). It has notable weaknesses, though. Latios can do serious damage with Draco Meteors. In fact, many special attackers can hurt Conkeldurr quite a bit, so I found that Tyranitar made an excellent partner to Pursuit trap the Lati twins. A ChopleTar can even help take out Alakazam (although variants with Psyshock actually lose 1v1 to Conkeldurr!), surviving Focus Blast and Crunching it. Anyway, eliminate Rotom-W and watch Conkeldurr demolish the opposition. B rank for sure.
 
Conkeldurr is B+ material. Its a pain to switch in and a pain to kill. It helps that his counters are so rare that most teams lack a reliable way to deal with it. Theres no way in hell this thing is going to stay in the same rank as trashvile. Also victini is another one that should rise up. Its a monster in sun and is very versatile thanks to its insane coverage from both sides of the spectrum.
 
Agreeing that Conk is a solid B rank Pokemon. Although slow, it usually a pain to get rid of due to its great bulk, and because of taht combined with its great attack stat it can repeatedly punch huge holes in many, many teams. Its speed is what holds it back, but conk is an absolutely amazing Pokemon (plus, that Mach punch hurts a lot, taking speed out of the equation). Many times, with proper prediction, Conk can nail something with Drain Punch/SE Coverage move and then finish it off with Mach Punch. If it can't it can usually live a hit from walls like rachi that might try to switch in on it. Not to mention it can run a guts Bulk Up set that can switch in on Scalds and set up. (Sheer Force is way better, at least IMO, but still, the set is there, and it's at least decent).
 
I believe SmashBrosBrawl mentioned Victini somewhere in his post. Yes, he does need to move up. IMO, the choiced sets suck and the LO sets die far too quickly. But there is one set that is extremely effective. The Ebelt lure:

Victini@Expert Belt
Victory Star
252 speed/252 sattck/4 defense
Modest/Timid

Blue Flare
Glaciate
Thunder/Psyshock
Focus Blast/Grass Knot

Oh man this set is so good. Just go watch Pokeaimd destroying souls with it. Blue Flare is for generic, powerful STAB. It gets a powerful boost in the sun, but still has its uses in rain. Jirachi takes a hefty chunk and Ferro is pretty much screwed. Focus Blast eliminates the oh-so-popular Tyrantitar and hits Heatran for good damage. Grass Knot is an option to hit Gastro while still damaging T-Tar, but Focus Blast is generally better, as it can usually OHKO. Glaciate eliminates some of the best switch ins to regular Victini- Landorus Therian and Gliscor. Laugh in their face as they get demolished. And Lando is one of the biggest threats in the metagame. Gliscor is just a bitch and it feels so good to put an end to its shenanigans. Glaciate also destrollishes Dragonite, doing hefty damage even through Multiscale. One of the best things is, this set destroys FerroCruel and FerroCent and Jirachi and Scizor and Breloom (if sash is broken or Spore has already been used) and Tyrantitar and Landorus Therian and Gliscor and Forretress and you get the point. Oh yeah thunder damages bulky waters abd stuff. Ill post some replays once I can get onto Showdown. Its typing allows it to stomach mach punhes and bullet punches and ice shards.

While Victini is great and all, it does have its flaws. It has medicre special attack (doesn't have analytic like starmie) and usually falls to anything it cant hit super effectively. Luckily, Victini hits a lot of things super effectively. Secondly, it is very hard to get in. Dat hazard weakness and lack of good resistances... It also fails to hit that all important 108 speed mark, and just falls short to Thundy-T. So dont expect Victini to be 6-0 ing teams unless you edict your opponent every time. Yeah, that was a really jumbled post. But I hope you get the point. Move Victini to B+ tier.

Replays: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-50454254
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-50454851
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-50460219 this one was so close. I thought that glaciate lowered speed by two so even para did not matter. sigh
yeah its not the best example but still
more coming
 
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The choiced sets don't suck o.o, CB Victini destroys lifes.. It's so amazing at winning weather wars seriously.
Regardless, it does have many flaws.. The typing along with the fact its stats just aren't amazing ( well, 600 BST is great but it doesn't quite excel at anything, it's a really strong physical attacker but only with 1 move, the rest are sub-par, special attacking sets are limited by a mediocre 100 SpA ) and it has a shit defensive typing despite having cool moves like Will-O-Wisp, it also hates rain which is so omnipresent in the tier.

I'm fine with it in B-, I could see it potentially even going to B, but I think B+ is pushing it.
 

Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
other snips
but only with 1 move, the rest are sub-par,
i agree snip
Bolt strike and Utuurn destroy lives, bolt strike OHKOs politoed with just expert belt, U-turn is awesome momentum but that last slot is what fucks with victini, though I often run sleep talk to fuck up venusaur
 
In power, when coming from a base 100 attack stat and non-STABed, yeah I'd say so.
Wasn't even my main point anyway, but whatever :P.
 
Choice sets are just not as effective. For a pokemon that switches in and out a lot, hazard weakness is a big deal. Let's look at some common choice users:

Garchomp
Terrakion
Keldeo
Jirachi
Landorus-T
Latios
Dragonite
Salamence
Rotom-W
Politoed
Tyrantitar

Notice that in this list, only two common Choice users are weak to Stealth Rock. So Victini can get off one powerful ass hit. So can Charizard. The ability to stay in is a huge boon to hazard weak mons like Victini. The way I see Victini, it is a way better Electrivire- at leas super effective usually equates to an KO. Even in rain, Victini can stiil abuse 100 percent accurate thunder, though thats not much lol.
 
(you can read the bolded parts and skip the nonbolded parts of this post for a very barebones summary)

I think that Jirachi is a very solid A+ tier pokemon, but it is definitely not worthy of the S rank.

When I think of Jirachi, I think of solid defensive typing, and bulk. 100 Spd is not enough to outpace the fastest, strongest threats, and 100 Atk or SAtk is pathetic in the OU meta, especially without any moves above 95 BP (STAB psychic is horrible) save Thunder in rain. Jirachi needs rain support to be an S tier threat. SubCM variants outside of rain suck because 95BP thunderbolt isn't going to be doing much damage coming off 100 attacking stats, even with a boost or two (or four). Rain takes away Jirachi's fire weakness and gives Jirachi the opportunity to abuse 120 BP Thunder with 60% paralysis chance, far more difficult to switch into than scald. The Sub CM set 6-0s many teams in Rain, while stall teams struggle to break Jirachi's subs even outside of it.

The Scarf set is very nice (and horrifically weak), and the ability to cripple walls with Trick is criminally underrated, while Healing Wish allows many teams to pull off unbelievable comebacks, but this Jirachi set is more of a supporter. It can outspeed +1/+1 Dragonite and severely dent it with Ice punch or Try to break Multiscale and Flinch it to death with Iron Head, but it's basically setup bait once it revenges a pokemon. Jirachi is just too damn weak and still, too slow to defeat the faster, more powerful pokemon of OU.

Specially Defensive Jirachi functions very well against Rain in that it resists Hurricane unlike Ferrothorn and Celebi who is 2x Weak, and can take Thunders fairly well resisted by both Celebi and Ferrothorn, but even it gets flattened by Rain Boosted Hydro Pumps, which are far more threatening. The resistance to Dragon type moves makes Jirachi very solid, but the Specially Defensive set is complete setup bait against anything with a sub, because this Jirachi set has no offensive presence(nastypass Sdef Celebi, Ferrothorn's 120-150BP STABS) and still, every Jirachi needs support from Latias, Gliscor, Lando-T, or Gyarados against power Earth and Fighting type physical moves that plague the tier. Given the offensive nature of this metagame, it is great that Jirachi resists Dragon; but all it can do is take a few attacks, then it dies due to poor recovery.

100/100/100 defenses are very solid and usually ensure that it will not be getting OHKOed, but all common Ground pokemon like Mamoswine, Garchomp, Donphan, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor all deal heavy damage to Jirachi, even without a boosting item!

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 326-386 (95.6 - 113.19%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

This calc is from scarfchomp, not band or LOchomp. Banded Dragonite, basically +1 Dragonite will also KO, not really a lot of power required to break through that typing. Banded Garchomp also KOs every single Jirachi set including 252/252+ Jirachi (20% of the time, 75% with an adamant nature)

Jirachi's typing, Psychic/Steel is a mixed blessing. The Psychic typing ensures that Jirachi is not weak to fighting attacks, (though it cannot handle more than one throughout a match), provides it with a 4x resistance to psyshock in calm mind wars, but also ensures that it takes neutral damage from the ever present U-turn. Unlike most other steel types, Jirachi has no notable resistances aside from Dragon moves, something every other steel type brings to the table. Jirachi doesn't help take water moves better like ferrothorn, fire/bug/dark moves like heatran, or ground moves like skarmory. Resisting Hurricanes or Ice beams and taking neutral damage from fighting attacks is something it has above Ferrothorn, but defensive pokemon thrive on 4x and 2x resistances and immunities, not neutralities. If Jirachi had reliable recovery in Recover instead of Wish, it would be much better, though still not an S-tier defensive threat, but unfortunately, it must use/waste two slots on Recovery in Wish and Protect. This does allow Jirachi to pass on 202 HP Wishes to its teammates, and play differently than other special walls.

Jirachi cannot take Hydro Pumps in Rain, or any fire attacks reliably in Sun
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi in rain: 274-324 (67.82 - 80.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi in sun: 188-224 (46.53 - 55.44%) -- 15.23% chance to 2HKO

Jirachi is easily burned by the ever present Scald, and will not enjoy switching into it anymore than Ferrothorn does, but definitely much less because it does not resist water attacks. This cannot be said enough times. When the best Politoed set is Specs, and Jirachi is easily 2HKOed in its best weather, it's really not doing well as a defensive wall. One might think that Jirachi is not too badly off in OU, as there are only four fire types. I'm not going to talk about Infernape; not because it sucks (it fills niche roles in OU and can function quite effectively), but for simplicity. Each fire type in OU presents an insurmountable challenge for Jirachi. For starters, against all of them, Jirachi will have to Iron Head twice as often to flinch them to death, usually, never going to happen. Volcarona threatens to outspeed Jirachi and tanks any special attacks after a boost. Flame body provides a 30% chance Jirachi be burned and crippled for the rest of the match should Jirachi go for the Iron Head or Body Slam, while Lum Berry is common enough on Volcarona that a Thunderwave as The Fire Bug Quiver Dances means game. Jirachi has nothing that can KO the bug, and outside of Tricking a Scarf onto it as it Quiver Dances or Fire Blasts, then switching to a counter, cannot do anything substantial besides paralyze.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Too Weak Jirachi Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 255-301 (81.99 - 96.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Heatran, one of the most common pokemon in OU, even on Rain teams provides a solid 4x resist to Iron Head. The first set on site usually carries an Air Balloon which must be popped before Superachi can think about KOing it, which it will never do without a life orb. Jirachi is too weak to KO any threats with coverage options unless they are 4x weak. I wish I didn't have to bold this, but its typing sucks offensively.

Modest Jirachi fails to KO heatran with HP Ground without a Life Orb.
252+ SpA Life Orb Weakrachi Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 348-411 (107.73 - 127.24%) -- guaranteed OHKO

If Heatran is even remotely bulky,
252+ SpA Life Orb Jirachi Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 255-302 (66.23 - 78.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 218-258 (63.74 - 75.43%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, guaranteed OHKO in Sun

I've already presented a calc from the weakest of Ninetales, and the Most specially defensive of Jirachi, and it doesn't look pretty. Most Chlorophyll sweepers run HP Fire due to PseudoSTAB which seriously dents Jirachi. Ninetales makes things worse for Jirachi, as it brings up pokemon like Victini, Darmanitan, Infernape, and CharizOrd from UU as viable OU pokemon on a Sun Team, which frequently run Donphan and Dugtrio. Jirachi is dead weight against Sun teams.

Specially Defensive Jirachi is an annoying support mon that flinchhaxes and paralyzes opposing pokemon, and it cannot be pursuit trapped. Unlike Latias, it doesn't care about Stealth Rocks or Toxic, but that extra 30 Special Defense, and that additional 10 speed makes a world of difference in OU. However, Jirachi is very vulnerable to Spikes, Magnezone, and Dugtrio, all of which cause it severe problems.

Now, it's quite clear that every single Jirachi set bar Shuca Berry Jirachi is destroyed by Garchomp or any reasonably powerful Earthquake or Fire Blast. I imagine many of you saying or yelling, "what about Shuca Berry Icy Wind Jirachi?" Sure, maybe once in a while you will actually surprise your opponent and take down that Garchomp, not even in one hit, but in two(you can just switch out); the second after lowering said Garchomp's speed (but still not if the Garchomp is ScarfChomp). Lure Jirachi might work in some cases and net you a few kills against some of the most experienced players in OU, but once the surprise is out (it's pretty obvious when you send in a Jirachi in on my Garchomp) you're left with a substandard Jirachi set which at best is a lure for one pokemon (using HP grass for gastrodon, a UU threat? Wonderful. How does that stack against my DragMag HO team?) and at worst has terrible coverage against the OU metagame. The lure set is a gimmick, and in most cases you're left with an inferior, outclassed pokemon in a tier where each pokemon matters tremendously.

The defensive sets have no offensive presence, the offensive sets have no defensive presence, while the other sets purely play a supporting role. The SubCM set under rain provides the best of both worlds, though even it will fall to physical attacks and status. Jirachi's best traits are its sheer versatility and unpredictability, it's ability to annoy all pokemon with flinch and paralysis, and its resistance to the powerful Dragon type. However, Jirachi's shortcomings lie in its average 100 Base Stats, ensuring that aside from annoying, it will merely be average at whatever it does, be it scarfer or special wall, and never a premiere defensive threat due to its weakness to Rain Boosted attacks, its mediocre recovery in Wish and Protect, and weakness to Earthquake, common on many offensive teams. The SubCM set is capable of turning Jirachi into a premiere offensive threat, easily sweeping the majority of the metagame, but it is somewhat dependent on Rain for a powerful Thunder/Paralysis chance and resistance to Fire attacks. Jirachi is not fast enough to outspeed OU's strongest pokemon, and even if it could, it lacks the brute force and powerful STABs to tear apart the OU metagame. Jirachi is like Infernape in that one of its major weaknesses is taken away in its select weather, and that it shines. However, in the opposing weather, Rain for Infernape, and Sun for Jirachi, it becomes dead weight, worse than useless against an entire team style.
I think that Jirachi is a solid pokemon and could be slapped onto many teams with great success, but its shortcomings, lack of solid STAB moves, weaknesses, and need for support make it an A+ pokemon at best. Jirachi's support movepool is very solid, and it is one of the best A+ pokemon without a doubt, but it definitely does not belong in the S rank.

edit: (spelling)
 
(you can read the bolded parts and skip the nonbolded parts of this post for a very barebones summary)

I think that Jirachi is a very solid A+ tier pokemon, but it is definitely not worthy of the S rank.

When I think of Jirachi, I think of solid defensive typing, and bulk. 100 Spd is not enough to outpace the fastest, strongest threats, and 100 Atk or SAtk is pathetic in the OU meta, especially without any moves above 95 BP (STAB psychic is horrible) save Thunder in rain. Jirachi needs rain support to be an S tier threat. SubCM variants outside of rain suck because 95BP thunderbolt isn't going to be doing much damage coming off 100 attacking stats, even with a boost or two (or four). Rain takes away Jirachi's fire weakness and gives Jirachi the opportunity to abuse 120 BP Thunder with 60% paralysis chance, far more difficult to switch into than scald. The Sub CM set 6-0s many teams in Rain, while stall teams struggle to break Jirachi's subs even outside of it.

The Scarf set is very nice (and horrifically weak), and the ability to cripple walls with Trick is criminally underrated, while Healing Wish allows many teams to pull off unbelievable comebacks, but this Jirachi set is more of a supporter. It can outspeed +1/+1 Dragonite and severely dent it with Ice punch or Try to break Multiscale and Flinch it to death with Iron Head, but it's basically setup bait once it revenges a pokemon. Jirachi is just too damn weak and still, too slow to defeat the faster, more powerful pokemon of OU.

Specially Defensive Jirachi functions very well against Rain in that it resists Hurricane unlike Ferrothorn and Celebi who is 2x Weak, and can take Thunders fairly well resisted by both Celebi and Ferrothorn, but even it gets flattened by Rain Boosted Hydro Pumps, which are far more threatening. The resistance to Dragon type moves makes Jirachi very solid, but the Specially Defensive set is complete setup bait against anything with a sub, because this Jirachi set has no offensive presence(nastypass Sdef Celebi, Ferrothorn's 120-150BP STABS) and still, every Jirachi needs support from Latias, Gliscor, Lando-T, or Gyarados against power Earth and Fighting type physical moves that plague the tier. Given the offensive nature of this metagame, it is great that Jirachi resists Dragon; but all it can do is take a few attacks, then it dies due to poor recovery.

100/100/100 defenses are very solid and usually ensure that it will not be getting OHKOed, but all common Ground pokemon like Mamoswine, Garchomp, Donphan, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor all deal heavy damage to Jirachi, even without a boosting item!

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 326-386 (95.6 - 113.19%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

This calc is from scarfchomp, not band or LOchomp. Banded Dragonite, basically +1 Dragonite will also KO, not really a lot of power required to break through that typing. Banded Garchomp also KOs every single Jirachi set including 252/252+ Jirachi (20% of the time, 75% with an adamant nature)

Jirachi's typing, Psychic/Steel is a mixed blessing. The Psychic typing ensures that Jirachi is not weak to fighting attacks, (though it cannot handle more than one throughout a match), provides it with a 4x resistance to psyshock in calm mind wars, but also ensures that it takes neutral damage from the ever present U-turn. Unlike most other steel types, Jirachi has no notable resistances aside from Dragon moves, something every other steel type brings to the table. Jirachi doesn't help take water moves better like ferrothorn, fire/bug/dark moves like heatran, or ground moves like skarmory. Resisting Hurricanes or Ice beams and taking neutral damage from fighting attacks is something it has above Ferrothorn, but defensive pokemon thrive on 4x and 2x resistances and immunities, not neutralities. If Jirachi had reliable recovery in Recover instead of Wish, it would be much better, though still not an S-tier defensive threat, but unfortunately, it must use/waste two slots on Recovery in Wish and Protect. This does allow Jirachi to pass on 202 HP Wishes to its teammates, and play differently than other special walls.

Jirachi cannot take Hydro Pumps in Rain, or any fire attacks reliably in Sun
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi in rain: 274-324 (67.82 - 80.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi in sun: 188-224 (46.53 - 55.44%) -- 15.23% chance to 2HKO

Jirachi is easily burned by the ever present Scald, and will not enjoy switching into it anymore than Ferrothorn does, but definitely much less because it does not resist water attacks. This cannot be said enough times. When the best Politoed set is Specs, and Jirachi is easily 2HKOed in its best weather, it's really not doing well as a defensive wall. One might think that Jirachi is not too badly off in OU, as there are only four fire types. I'm not going to talk about Infernape; not because it sucks (it fills niche roles in OU and can function quite effectively), but for simplicity. Each fire type in OU presents an insurmountable challenge for Jirachi. For starters, against all of them, Jirachi will have to Iron Head twice as often to flinch them to death, usually, never going to happen. Volcarona threatens to outspeed Jirachi and tanks any special attacks after a boost. Flame body provides a 30% chance Jirachi be burned and crippled for the rest of the match should Jirachi go for the Iron Head or Body Slam, while Lum Berry is common enough on Volcarona that a Thunderwave as The Fire Bug Quiver Dances means game. Jirachi has nothing that can KO the bug, and outside of Tricking a Scarf onto it as it Quiver Dances or Fire Blasts, then switching to a counter, cannot do anything substantial besides paralyze.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Too Weak Jirachi Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 255-301 (81.99 - 96.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Heatran, one of the most common pokemon in OU, even on Rain teams provides a solid 4x resist to Iron Head. The first set on site usually carries an Air Balloon which must be popped before Superachi can think about KOing it, which it will never do without a life orb. Jirachi is too weak to KO any threats with coverage options unless they are 4x weak. I wish I didn't have to bold this, but its typing sucks offensively.

Modest Jirachi fails to KO heatran with HP Ground without a Life Orb.
252+ SpA Life Orb Weakrachi Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 348-411 (107.73 - 127.24%) -- guaranteed OHKO

If Heatran is even remotely bulky,
252+ SpA Life Orb Jirachi Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 255-302 (66.23 - 78.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 218-258 (63.74 - 75.43%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, guaranteed OHKO in Sun

I've already presented a calc from the weakest of Ninetales, and the Most specially defensive of Jirachi, and it doesn't look pretty. Most Chlorophyll sweepers run HP Fire due to PseudoSTAB which seriously dents Jirachi. Ninetales makes things worse for Jirachi, as it brings up pokemon like Victini, Darmanitan, Infernape, and CharizOrd from UU as viable OU pokemon on a Sun Team, which frequently run Donphan and Dugtrio. Jirachi is dead weight against Sun teams.

Specially Defensive Jirachi is an annoying support mon that flinchhaxes and paralyzes opposing pokemon, and it cannot be pursuit trapped. Unlike Latias, it doesn't care about Stealth Rocks or Toxic, but that extra 30 Special Defense, and that additional 10 speed makes a world of difference in OU. However, Jirachi is very vulnerable to Spikes, Magnezone, and Dugtrio, all of which cause it severe problems.

Now, it's quite clear that every single Jirachi set bar Shuca Berry Jirachi is destroyed by Garchomp or any reasonably powerful Earthquake or Fire Blast. I imagine many of you saying or yelling, "what about Shuca Berry Icy Wind Jirachi?" Sure, maybe once in a while you will actually surprise your opponent and take down that Garchomp, not even in one hit, but in two(you can just switch out); the second after lowering said Garchomp's speed (but still not if the Garchomp is ScarfChomp). Lure Jirachi might work in some cases and net you a few kills against some of the most experienced players in OU, but once the surprise is out (it's pretty obvious when you send in a Jirachi in on my Garchomp) you're left with a substandard Jirachi set which at best is a lure for one pokemon (using HP grass for gastrodon, a UU threat? Wonderful. How does that stack against my DragMag HO team?) and at worst has terrible coverage against the OU metagame. The lure set is a gimmick, and in most cases you're left with an inferior, outclassed pokemon in a tier where each pokemon matters tremendously.

The defensive sets have no offensive presence, the offensive sets have no defensive presence, while the other sets purely play a supporting role. The SubCM set under rain provides the best of both worlds, though even it will fall to physical attacks and status. Jirachi's best traits are its sheer versatility and unpredictability, it's ability to annoy all pokemon with flinch and paralysis, and its resistance to the powerful Dragon type. However, Jirachi's shortcomings lie in its average 100 Base Stats, ensuring that aside from annoying, it will merely be average at whatever it does, be it scarfer or special wall, and never a premiere defensive threat due to its weakness to Rain Boosted attacks, its mediocre recovery in Wish and Protect, and weakness to Earthquake, common on many offensive teams. The SubCM set is capable of turning Jirachi into a premiere offensive threat, easily sweeping the majority of the metagame, but it is somewhat dependent on Rain for a powerful Thunder/Paralysis chance and resistance to Fire attacks. Jirachi is not fast enough to outspeed OU's strongest pokemon, and even if it could, it lacks the brute force and powerful STABs to tear apart the OU metagame. Jirachi is like Infernape in that one of its major weaknesses is taken away in its select weather, and that it shines. However, in the opposing weather, Rain for Infernape, and Sun for Jirachi, it becomes dead weight, worse than useless against an entire team style.
I think that Jirachi is a solid pokemon and could be slapped onto many teams with great success, but its shortcomings, lack of solid STAB moves, weaknesses, and need for support make it an A+ pokemon at best. Jirachi's support movepool is very solid, and it is one of the best A+ pokemon without a doubt, but it definitely does not belong in the S rank.

edit: (spelling)
Jirachi inst a nuke or anything like that. Who cares if it has 100 offenses and speed? Jirachi job is use its bulk, typing and movepool to support the team spreading paralysis, walling special attackers, luring in and koing certain threats or revenge kill them. The only set that can be considered a sweeper is the subcalm one which guess what, can boost its offenses anyway. Scarf rachi is not a niche, its one of the best scarfers in the game, one of the few that can support its team instead of just revenge killing. Sp def rachi is setup bait? Nice joke buddy, tell me how many pokemons can setup on body slam+iron head shenanigans.''All it can do is take a few attacks and die'', i hope youre kidding when youre trying to undermine sp def rachi qualities and role in a team. Seriously wtf point are you trying to make continuously stating that jirachi cant tank hits from its WEAKNESS? Of course it cant, thats why theyre weakness, jirachi has no business staying in on the likes of garchomp or landorus-t with a sp def set, and again, guess what, they cant switch in on jirachi because of body slam. ''Jirachi is easily burned by scald'', since when is jirachi going to switch into the bulk waters that completely wall it????? Shuca berry rachi a gimmick? The entire reason why the jirachi for S-Rank argument is being brought back is a gimmick? Mkay then.

The defensive sets have no offensive presence, the offensive sets have no defensive presence, while the other sets purely play a supporting role. The SubCM set under rain provides the best of both worlds, though even it will fall to physical attacks and status. Jirachi's best traits are its sheer versatility and unpredictability, it's ability to annoy all pokemon with flinch and paralysis, and its resistance to the powerful Dragon type. However, Jirachi's shortcomings lie in its average 100 Base Stats, ensuring that aside from annoying, it will merely be average at whatever it does, be it scarfer or special wall, and never a premiere defensive threat due to its weakness to Rain Boosted attacks, its mediocre recovery in Wish and Protect, and weakness to Earthquake, common on many offensive teams. The SubCM set is capable of turning Jirachi into a premiere offensive threat, easily sweeping the majority of the metagame, but it is somewhat dependent on Rain for a powerful Thunder/Paralysis chance and resistance to Fire attacks. Jirachi is not fast enough to outspeed OU's strongest pokemon, and even if it could, it lacks the brute force and powerful STABs to tear apart the OU metagame. Jirachi is like Infernape in that one of its major weaknesses is taken away in its select weather, and that it shines. However, in the opposing weather, Rain for Infernape, and Sun for Jirachi, it becomes dead weight, worse than useless against an entire team style.
Body slam+Iron head. Theres your offensive presence. 100 bulk across the board and steel psychic typing. Theres your defensive presence (whatever the hell thats supposed to mean). Please explain how is a SUB set falling to status and since when is it dependant on rain (please dont tell me you think sub calm means thunder+water pulse...). Jirachi completely tear apart the ou metagame even without huge offenses. Its the most annoying and versatile pokemon in the tier, it can do anything you want and kill anything you team needs to. So yeah, its a huge ass threat and S-Rank worthy.
Edit: Also seriously, infernape, what the hell...
 
I actually like Jirachi a lot and I'm really not playing favoritism here (maybe a little for the SubCM set at worst) but a lot of what you're saying isn't necessarily stuff that I disagree with. Jirachi is without a doubt very good. It's not something like Keldeo that I look at before the start of a match and say "sweet baby Arceus, I have to keep Latias healthy, or Keldeo could end this match for me" It's not an S-rank pokemon. You said
The only set that can be considered a sweeper is the subcalm one which guess what, can boost its offenses anyway
as though you didn't read that I've said many times the set is awesome for that very reason. I feel that you're slightly straw manning a lot of what I've said, so I'm choosing to respond to just a few things below.

Sp def rachi is setup bait? Nice joke buddy, tell me how many pokemons can setup on body slam+iron head shenanigans.
Sdef Jirachi is hazards bait for basically anything with a Substitute and some bulk. Many pokemon resist Iron Head and Body Slam, and many Pokemon can drop a sub on either with little problem to avoid body slam paralysis. Pokemon with Taunt can prevent Jirachi from healing or stalling. Now with the assumption that the checks or counters of Jirachi can't switch in due to Body Slam.

Forretress, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Tentacruel, Roserade (what other hazards pokemon are used, honestly?) all come in happily and don't mind the paralysis, which isn't guaranteed. Ferrothorn especially checks Jirachi, as it is capable of dealing significant damage to Jirachi through Iron Barbs + Rocky Helmet, while threatening a myriad of hazards, Thunder Wave, and Leech Seed for Jirachi and the switch. Hippowdon changes weather, threatens EQ immediately, can set up SR, takes nothing from uninvested Iron Heads. Same thing with Donphan, who can also spin. Gengar can come in on Body Slam, and trick a Scarf onto Jirachi, rendering it useless for the rest of the match. Conkeldurr and other slow pokemon that don't mind paralysis come in happily and set up. Conkeldurr can bulk up, drain punch, mach punch, all sorts of crazy things. Anything with priority attacks like Conkeldurr will happily come in and set up Swords Dance. +2 Feralitgatr, Scizor, Lucario, and all sorts of other pokemon come in and attack with higher priority attacks, ignoring paralysis. Anything with Lum doesn't mind coming in and ruining Jirachi's day. Even Specs Toed can roll the dice with Jirachi. The problem with Specially Defensive Jirachi is rain especially. When Rain Boosted attacks from Specs Politoed, the most common (if it's not, it should be) Drizzle pokemon 2hko Specially Defensive Jirachi, what's the point? I'm very tired right now, but this is all just from the top of my head.

I'm sure many other things set up all over specially defensive jirachi. Something like NastyPass Celebi with Giga Drain has amazing offensive and defensive presence. It can keep recovering on Specs Draco Meteor from Latios, and take nothing, while setting up a nasty plot as the Latios user switches to CB scizor, and baton pass the Nasty Plot or even Swords Dance to a scarfer or wall breaker. Ferrothorn tanks Close Combat from Scarf Terrakion, potentially breaks the sash of SashSRRak and KOs it with Gyro Ball or Power Whip. Ferrothorn has 150 BP Gyro Ball, 225BP with STAB factored in. Holy Miltank, that's insane, and my Dragonite isn't going to want to set up on that, no way. It can't even get through the encounter without Iron Barbs breaking its Multiscale. In this metagame, specially defensive pokemon usually manhandle Rain, a playstyle championed by its special attackers. Ferrothorn walls dragons, but also sets up rocks and spikes, while spreading 100% paralysis and gaining back lots of health with leech seed and protect/lefties. It also runs 180BP Power Whip or 225 BP Gyro Ball, moves that really hurt coming off of its decent 90 Atk Stat. I personally find something like Ferrothorn much more dangerous than something like specially defensive Jirachi maybe even Jellicent as its immune to water and fighting, two incredibly dominant types, and spreads burns, arguably more useful than paralysis with solid recovery in Recover to boot. Jirachi has to wish then Protect to avoid being 2HKOed, and it's fairly predictable sometimes. Specially defensive Jirachi has many other merits (Wish passing, being a special wall that can take Specs Draco Meteor like a champ) but it's far from walling a significant portion of the metagame.

edit: quote tags
 
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And over 3000 posts later, people are still talking about making Jirachi S-Rank. I'm a huge supporter of the S-Rank for Jirachi as you can tell from my sig alone.

all common Ground pokemon like Mamoswine, Garchomp, Donphan, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor all deal heavy damage to Jirachi, even without a boosting item!
Well no shit, EQ is a base 100 STAB attack that Jirachi is weak to from these pokemon. I can simply reply that Tyranitar is dealt heavy damage by any common fighting-type move, let alone common fighting-type pokemon. Fighting is also a much more spam-able move than ground by a long shot since its probably the best attacking type in the game, bar dragon. A Chople Berry isn't even able to save its ass sometimes. None of these things stopped Tyranitar from being S-Rank since it supports its team so much by eliminating the opposing weather and using Pursuit. However, even the sand support can hurt the team if your own pokemon aren't immune to SS damage. BTW, please tell me how any of those ground types you listed are willing to switch into Jirachi. The only one I can think of is Gliscor if Toxic Orb has already been activated.

Jirachi cannot take Hydro Pumps in Rain, or any fire attacks reliably in Sun
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi in rain: 274-324 (67.82 - 80.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi in sun: 188-224 (46.53 - 55.44%) -- 15.23% chance to 2HKO

Jirachi is easily burned by the ever present Scald, and will not enjoy switching into it anymore than Ferrothorn does, but definitely much less because it does not resist water attacks. This cannot be said enough times. When the best Politoed set is Specs, and Jirachi is easily 2HKOed in its best weather, it's really not doing well as a defensive wall. One might think that Jirachi is not too badly off in OU, as there are only four fire types. I'm not going to talk about Infernape; not because it sucks (it fills niche roles in OU and can function quite effectively), but for simplicity. Each fire type in OU presents an insurmountable challenge for Jirachi. For starters, against all of them, Jirachi will have to Iron Head twice as often to flinch them to death, usually, never going to happen. Volcarona threatens to outspeed Jirachi and tanks any special attacks after a boost. Flame body provides a 30% chance Jirachi be burned and crippled for the rest of the match should Jirachi go for the Iron Head or Body Slam, while Lum Berry is common enough on Volcarona that a Thunderwave as The Fire Bug Quiver Dances means game. Jirachi has nothing that can KO the bug, and outside of Tricking a Scarf onto it as it Quiver Dances or Fire Blasts, then switching to a counter, cannot do anything substantial besides paralyze.)
I can post calcs, too!
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn in rain: 165-195 (46.87 - 55.39%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Most Ferrothorns run max defense so I see this as a reasonable calc and this is a RESISTED hit but this doesn't change the fact that Ferrothorn is great so why would it change the opinion of others that Jirachi shouldnt be bumped up to S-Rank? Just look at that Ninetales' calc, too lol. Are you serious with that? A sun-boosted STAB SE hit on Jirachi may not even 2HKO it. I find that pretty impressive since it means it can switch in and do something 85% of the time before it dies. There are also only 4 pokemon that even carry Hydro Pump on a regular basis, and only 2 of them are able to 2HKO Jirachi in the rain flat out. Pokemon like Rotom-W and Politoed do not use LO/Choice Specs enough for me to consider them in the same category as Starmie and Keldeo. And saying the "best Politoed set is Specs" is purely subjective while I'm listing facts about what players use on the ladder.
 

Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
lol ladder usage, js. anyway, most of jirachi for s arguments just sound like "this poke is good, lets ignore all it's flaws and make it S!"
 
I think lots of people would benefit from taking a chill pill regarding a Pokemon moving up or down in a viability thread instead of being snarky, though I do suppose chill pills haven't hit the pharmacy shelves yet =/
And over 3000 posts later, people are still talking about making Jirachi S-Rank. I'm a huge supporter of the S-Rank for Jirachi as you can tell from my sig alone.
Lovely.
Well no shit, EQ is a base 100 STAB attack that Jirachi is weak to from these pokemon.
The argument is not "Jirachi is weak to Earthquake ∴ Jirachi is not an S-rank pokemon," but rather that Jirachi has several flaws, this one included which prevent it from reaching the S-rank.

I can simply reply that Tyranitar is dealt heavy damage by any common fighting-type move, let alone common fighting-type pokemon. Fighting is also a much more spam-able move than ground by a long shot since its probably the best attacking type in the game, bar dragon. A Chople Berry isn't even able to save its ass sometimes. None of these things stopped Tyranitar from being S-Rank since it supports its team so much by eliminating the opposing weather and using Pursuit. However, even the sand support can hurt the team if your own pokemon aren't immune to SS damage. BTW, please tell me how any of those ground types you listed are willing to switch into Jirachi. The only one I can think of is Gliscor if Toxic Orb has already been activated.
I find it kind of funny that you answer your own question regarding Tyranitar. Yes, the fighting weakness sucks, but Tyranitar brings solid offensive and defensive stats to the table, pursuit trapping with insane power, special bulk, a combination of both, speed, or a very solid Lead set to your team. It also brings Sand, the best weather in OU, breaking most Focus Sashes, bringing added bulk to Rock types, bringing sand chipping away at opposing teams' health turn after turn, activating certain abilities like Sand Rush, and removing Sun and Rain respectively from the field. Let's not talk about Tyranitar anymore however. I've already answered your question about Ground Types willing to switch in on Jirachi. Donphan simply does not care about Jirachi's piss-weak Iron heads, and doesn't mind Paralysis as it will be moving second against the majority of OU pokemon. Upon switching in, it gets momentum with literally every move it has in EQ, rocks, and Rapid Spin. Hippowdon doesn't mind paralysis either, as it now can't be poisoned, and threatens to EQ, set up rocks, etc. Gliscor as you mentioned easily handles Jirachi. Gastrodon is the same, but benefits from immunity to poison and a resistance to Iron Head. As for offensive answers, if you're carrying a Lum Berry, the threat of Body Slam is meaningless. If you don't have a Lum Berry, it is very easy to ensure that you don't bring in your check in on a Body Slam. Jirachi isn't going to blindly keep using Body Slam on the Pokemon it's against before you make the switch. If it is, don't send in Scarfchomp immediately. Send in a wall, (maybe wait for an iron head following the body slam for additional confirmation') then send in ScarfChomp. Or double switch from a Ghost. The possibilities are endless when you're facing a pokemon that must use Wish, and stay in and protect to ensure it gets proper recovery and not a 2HKO. Mamoswine is probably the only pokemon that might not want to switch into Jirachi as it is weak to STAB Iron Head. As a matter of fact, the most popular item for Garchomp right now is Choice Scarf, and every Jirachi is outsped and easily KOed by EQ. Not even Shuca Berry Icy Wind Jirachi can defeat it as anything with more than 100 Speed is just too fast for Jirachi.

I can post calcs, too! 252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn in rain: 165-195 (46.87 - 55.39%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Most Ferrothorns run max defense so I see this as a reasonable calc and this is a RESISTED hit but this doesn't change the fact that Ferrothorn is great so why would it change the opinion of others that Jirachi shouldnt be bumped up to S-Rank?
The problem with your calc is that the most popular Ferrothorns spread run is the main on-site 252/48/208 spread, which allows Ferrothorn to be one of the best Physical and Special walls in the game. Furthermore, Politoed needs rocks to have even a chance of 2HKOing Ferrothorn with no Sdef, not factoring in 80% accuracy from Hydro Pump. Anyway, for the sake of comparison in my initial post, I was comparing Specially Defensive Jirachi to Ferrothorn's mixed spread to show a crucial difference. Here is a correct calc. Comparing Sdef Jirachi to a pokemon not investing anything into its special defense is silly.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn in rain: 139-164 (39.48 - 46.59%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi in rain: 378-445 (93.56 - 110.14%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO If you'd like to compare Jirachi to an uninvested Ferrothorn, it's only fair to make Jirachi uninvested as well.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi in rain: 378-445 (93.56 - 110.14%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Either way, Jirachi isn't ever going to take a Specs Hydro Pump, something that many specially defensive walls are able to take.

Just look at that Ninetales' calc, too lol. Are you serious with that? A sun-boosted STAB SE hit on Jirachi may not even 2HKO it. I find that pretty impressive since it means it can switch in and do something
Ninetales has a miserable 81 Satk stat, and uninvested Ninetales fails to even hit a special attack of 200. It has the weakest fire move Jirachi will ever come in on against a Sun Team (unless Dugtrio is using HP fire instead of Eathquake to handle Jirachi), and Jirachi is still possibly 2HKOed. This calc speaks to Ninetales' pitiful offenses and to Jirachi's utter lack of utility as a wall against a Sun team.

Again, in these posts I'm responding to people who think I'm saying Jirach is not good. Jirachi is very good, as a steel type taking neutral damage from fighting moves, and losing its fire weakness in Rain, but it's not good enough, not threatening enough, not fast enough, and definitely not walling enough to be an S-tier threat.
 
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The Jirachi arguments have been going in circles now, so I'm only going to say a few things and just wait for PK's decision on what to do with it

I support it to S-Rank simply on the basis that it has no true counters.

Yes, I said it. It has no true counters. What one mon could do to one Rachi set is border-line set-up fodder for another. It has an amazing gift in Serene Grace alone, and it has the stats and moves to abuse it.

"But Salamence and Hydreigon have no counters too so by your logic we should move them up"

Yeah and Salamence has about 5 moves max it can use and 9/10 times it'll be choice-locked and Hydreigon is while slightly more diverse than Salamence too slow to make use of anything and in stiff competition from Cube whereas Jirachi is more like "I'll just paralyze you and increase my chance of doing work by 300%"

Also Blarg, ScarfRachi really isn't a powerhouse, it's a revenge killer like most scarfers. I'm not worried about it doing 97% damage when in reality it only needs to do about 80% at max. And your calcs and logic behind them aren't very reasonable because you're saying Rachi can't take moves from damage outputs lower than what you say is too weak for Rachi (15% to 2HKO but 81% damage minimum is too little for you? Come on now) and I'm not sure what the Volc calc is supposed to prove because all you need is literally one layer of spikes or SR and you're in good shape because they either A: Try to set up Quiver Dance and you KO them, B: Roost and you hit them for 80% minimum putting them in a worse position or C: Attack right away and hope to god Fire Blast doesn't miss or that you lost around 50% of your HP so Bug Buzz can KO

Also what is HP Ground doing on a Rachi without EBelt and why would you even keep in a Rachi on Heatran when there's this thing called Landorus-T? Saying that Tyranitar vs Keldeo will always result in a loss is no where near a strong argument to pull it down, I don't see how it becomes relevant to Heatran and Rachi in the same reasoning behind the argument

252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 144-169 (35.64 - 41.83%) -- 88.72% chance to 3HKO
If your Jirachi isn't paralyzing a Keldeo in 3 turns (sometimes 4) then you just have bad luck, the offensive presence means nothing when you can just paraflinch them to death anyways, but I guess since Donphan has "Offensive Presence" for a defensive pokemon we should all start using him now
 
I do agree that much of the Jirachi discussion is getting circular, frankly, I'm pretty bored talking about it, and it doesn't affect my day if it moves up a rank or stays where it is, as the creme of the crop of OU pokemon. You're taking many things I've said out of context, and misconstrued them (where do I say that donphan has offensive presence exactly?) so I'm struggling a bit to respond to your post, but I'll do my best.

I think I could have phrased things better, but the Ninetales calc was only used to prove that the specially defensive set is useless against sun, as it can only switch in on the weakest of fire attacks once(twice with no hazards or prior damage). We already know that 252+ Sun Boosted Fire Blast is going to wreck it. I don't see why you're talking about Hydreigon and Salamence because I don't think that I've mentioned either of them, but it's fine either way. Jirachi being better than mence is no reason for it to move up a rank.

Scarf Jirachi is dissimilar from Keldeo, Latios, Terrakion, and Garchomp(most popular item is scarf, apparently) in that it is forced to speed tie with +1 100 Speed pokemon, while sporting only Iron Head as it's best attacking option. It's also incredibly weak and prone to being setup bait once locked into Iron Head or Ice Punch. Flinching is great, but Steel is a terrible type move to be locked into, resisted by many common pokemon in OU. Jirachi gathers lots of momentum with U-Turn while supporting its team with Healing Wish or crippling enemy walls with Trick. Jirachi also has Ice Punch (which the scarf set is usually forced to run) to revenge 4x weak pokemon, but it has no absurdly powerful 120BP/100BP STAB moves with which it can hit opposing pokemon. Jirachi doesn't really revenge kill pokemon as much as it harasses the opposing team or gains momentum with U-turn (scarf Jirachi singlehandedly takes on Alakazam without being KOed unlike the rest, though Scarfchomp can outspeed and KO Alakazam with Dual Chop). Scarfrachi can potentially flinch its enemies to death (36% chance for a double flinch, 21.6 for a triple flinch), but being locked into Iron Head or Ice Punch with an attack stat of 100 is pretty pathetic. What I do like about Jirachi is that Dragon resistance, but it's definitely not revenging any pokemon that aren't 4x weak to Ice Punch or vulnerable to Iron Head. Most people run scarfers for two reasons; they need something faster to handle the quickest pokemon in OU, they need something to KO +1/+1 Dragonite and +1/+1/+1 Volcarona or they lose the game. Jirachi's Steel typing and bulk make handling Dragonite a cinch, but it struggles against Volcarona. It's very good, but aside from revenging dragons, it's just a supporter/harasser, not a revenge killer like Keldeo, Garchomp, or Terrakion (latios/starmie/gengar/anything else)

The last calc you posted involving a Keldeo not under rain makes it pretty clear that Jirachi can easily switch in on a Hydro pump, Wish/Protect or immediately go for Body Slam. 100/100/100 defenses are solid, and I think that we're both in agreement that SDef Jirachi is a solid special wall.

The Specs Jirachi calc was put down just for lulz. It's not a great set to run on such a weak pokemon with pitifully weak STABs, and even this fails to KO Volcarona. 99% of Jirachi have nothing to touch Volcarona, which by the way can easily come in and set up all over any Jirachi sets. Honestly, it's just fluff, because we all know Jirachi can't handle fire types. The same thing was done with the Jirachi set carrying HP ground, the most damaging move Jirachi has against Heatran. Who cares if it has a Life Orb over an Expert Belt? LO deals more damage, and still fails to KO. The fact that one must mention extensive hazard support when even the most perfect sets fail to handle Jirachi's checks or "counters" speaks volumes to its offensive prowess.

Many people are talking about Jirachi as some sort of threat with no counters, but barring gimmicks (I'm unsure if Shuca Berry Jirachi is a gimmick) ScarfChomp outspeeds and destroys all variants (Shuca Berry Icy Wind included).

edit: to clarify, I do think jirachi is incredible, just not godly. If anything is to push it into S-rank, it is its Versatility, though I'm of the opinion the the novelty wears off within a turn or two of Jirachi's usage.

Not that it's relevant to this thread, but Jirachi can be pursuit trapped next generation ( =[ )
 
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Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
most of the non-sun sweeper rank changing arguments HAVE been circular, there's nothing we can do but hope one side will just drop their argument, after all most of these arguments are people picking apart at each other's argument's little flaws, come on now, lets all be serious, this pointless nitpicking is getting us nowhere, lets stop the nitpicking and actually try to understand the argument as a whole as opposed to picking apart at every single little damned point, at least then we might do something productive
 
Aside from jirachi circle jerk, I would like to nominate volcarona for A+. Yes, it needs a ridiculous amount if support, which doesn't fit a tier. However, it is far and away the most threatening sweeper in the game. It is two sure fire counters: scarf terrakion and scarf chomp with stone edge (who isnt that good IMO ), stabs are sooooo exploitable. Pink blobs : 2hkoed by +1 lo fblast insun. Heatran: hp ground for any variant, variants with out roar/toxic set up on by bulky set. Dnite: ohkoed after rocks by hp rock (note, all calcs assuming +1 ). Keldeo: passho fucks it up, bulky can SET UP ON A KELDEO if its in the sun ( which is where bulky should be used)However, the offensive set does lack setup opportunities. But there is als0 my personal favorite, the bulky qd set. This set needs a ton of support, sun + duggy probably + magic bounce/ spin, although it should be noted that this set can come in at 50% and sweep, but it doesn't like to. Also, duggy and hazard control already fit into sun, so it isn't asking too much. Now, while this set can't muscle through its checks like the last one, it is easily the most consistent sweeper in ou. Now obviously you have no way of knowing if its true, but I would estimate that I swept 50% of total games with this set. Just to show how easy it is to set up, it can set up in the sun on alakazam loom if sleep clause is active celbi conkelldurr donphan without head smashferrothorn forry espeon offensive tran ( sometimes) jelli without toxic gliscor although it doesn't like toxic gengar rachi Lucario -2 latis keldeo yes keldeo magnezone metagross some ninetales rotom w scizor skarmory starmie tents without toxic toxic road vaporeon with out roar. Yes, it is a ridiculousamount of support, more than any other mon needs, but it is just so fuckin good that I find it worth it. Also, flame body is worth mentioning. Eg, it was the last mon and my opponent had a banded dnite. It lived an outrage, burned it, rooster in its face and went on to sweep.
 
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ShootingStarmie

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Aside from jirachi circle jerk, I would like to nominate volcarona for A+. Yes, it needs a ridiculous amount if support, which doesn't fit a tier. However, it is far and away the most threatening sweeper in the game. It is two sure fire counters: scarf terrakion and scarf chomp with stone edge (who isnt that good IMO ), stabs are sooooo exploitable. Pink blobs : 2hkoed by +1 lo fblast insun. Heatran: hp ground for any variant, variants with out roar/toxic set up on by bulky set. Dnite: ohkoed after rocks by hp rock (note, all calcs assuming +1 ). Keldeo: passho fucks it up, bulky can SET UP ON A KELDEO if its in the sun ( which is where bulky should be used)However, the offensive set does lack setup opportunities. But there is als0 my personal favorite, the bulky qd set. This set needs a ton of support, sun + duggy probably + magic bounce/ spin, although it should be noted that this set can come in at 50% and sweep, but it doesn't like to. Also, duggy and hazard control already fit into sun, so it isn't asking too much. Now, while this set can't muscle through its checks like the last one, it is easily the most consistent sweeper in ou. Now obviously you have no way of knowing if its true, but I would estimate that I swept 50% of total games with this set. Just to show how easy it is to set up, it can set up in the sun on alakazam loom if sleep clause is active celbi conkelldurr donphan without head smashferrothorn forry espeon offensive tran ( sometimes) jelli without toxic gliscor although it doesn't like toxic gengar rachi Lucario -2 latis keldeo yes keldeo magnezone metagross some ninetales rotom w scizor skarmory starmie tents without toxic toxic road vaporeon with out roar. Yes, it is a ridiculousamount of support, more than any other mon needs, but it is just so fuckin good that I find it worth it. Also, flame body is worth mentioning. Eg, it was the last mon and my opponent had a banded dnite. It lived an outrage, burned it, rooster in its face and went on to sweep.
The fact is that Volcarona can't run HP Ground / Rock / Life Orb / Passho Berry / etc all at the same time. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by Terrakion and Garchomp having exploitable STABs. What does this even mean? Fact of the matter is these two Pokemon (and a lot more) easily deal with Volcarona nicely. The same argument could be used to move Hydreigon up to A+ rank. Hydreigon on paper can demolish everything, but in practice it just doesn't happen. Also, you're implying that Sun is up and Rocks aren't on the field. This alone is way too much support to boost Volcarona up to A+ rank, as you're basically saying you need Ninetales + a spinner / magic bouncer + a trapper to eliminate other weathers. Most of the Pokemon in this tier don't require as much support as Volcarona.

Volcarona is fine in A rank
 
I do agree with ShootingStarmie, but I'd like to point out that Volcarona on Rain requires significantly less support (rapid spin from Starmie or Tentacruel, both of which synergize well with Volcarona) and handles its counters much more easily. It can go with a more bulky spread and Roost to tank hits and get off a second boost, or use HP Water to get past Heatran (not that a Rain team has much problem with Heatran). HP Water gets Pseudo STAB in rain and hits scarf Terrakion anticipating the QD on the switch very hard, while Hurricane destroys Keldeo.

252+ SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Water vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion in rain: 284-336 (87.65 - 103.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Water vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran in rain: 270-318 (70.12 - 82.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi in rain: 330-390 (81.68 - 96.53%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(please note that with a life orb, many more of Volcarona's moves (not just those at +1) are guaranteed KOs or 2HKOs)

Volcarona functions like Moltres on steroids, as STAB Bug Buzz isn't weakened in Rain, QD is much better than Agility, and Hurricane gets solid neutral and SE coverage in OU. In Rain it doesn't need any more support than a pokemon that benefits from SR or Spikes on the field. Rain teams have the best spinners in OU, and usually are running one of them. It should be noted that while Volcarona handles Keldeo easily in the Sun, in Rain especially it benefits greatly from a Passho berry given its amplified weakness to water type moves.

252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Passho Berry Volcarona in rain: 187-222 (60.12 - 71.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Bulky Rain Moth is also very viable)

I feel that Volcarona is a very solid recipient of Dual Screen/Memento and clinches the game due to its incredible boosting move, and that it is a very versatile pokemon, but the 50% Stealth Rock and Toxic spikes weakness is pretty tough for it to deal with. Without the SR weakness, Volcarona would definitely be S rank. Volcarona performs very well against OU's top Steel types, especially against Scizor, which threatens to run through many well built OU teams. I'm kind of torn between A+ and A rank due to the Rain set and Volcarona's bulky boosting set (with two boosts and SR, everything in OU is basically KOed while blobs, zapdos, and jellicent are all 2HKOed), but its pretty easily revenged and very predictable, so I think it's fine where it is.
 
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