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The Outsiders Challenge — Mk III

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Harsha, Dec 2, 2012.

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  1. Harsha

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 18, 2011
    We have a new rule please read

    The Outsiders Challenge
    Hosted by Huntofthelion and Harsha. Original thread is located here. Art by Fatecrashers.



    Many of you probably have seen the original Outsiders Challenge, but for those who do not know the purpose behind it, it's actually fairly simple. This challenge is hosted to determine what strategies that aren't used too often are effective, as well as who are the best ladder players.


    • *NEW RULE*Your team must have an aggregate usage percentage of 25%. That means that you may not have a combined total of 25% or more. For example, if all of my team members have a usage of 4%, I have a combined usage of 24%. I can use this team. If they all have 4.5%, then I can't use this team.
    • You must start with a fresh alt when entering this challenge.
    • Once you reach a rating of 2000 with a deviation of 75 (Glicko2), you are eligible for the Hall of Fame! Simply post your peak (screenshots, please) and the team you used, and answer a few discussion questions. People that can get to 2100 and 2200 will get higher standings in the Hall of Fame; your rating is proportional to your standing, in other words. Note that there might be a prize for the ultimate winner!
    • Please don't cheat. We know it's tempting to cheat for glory in a Pokemon challenge, but really, I promise it's not worth it. If you're going to use banned Pokemon in this challenge, why did you even sign up?
    Here's a format of a signup:

    Participants! (open)
    Player - Alt - Hall of Fame Details
    Admiral Bobbery - General Bobbery - n/a
    Bipolar Express - bipolarexpress69 - n/a
    buddhism - Windows 2000 - n/a
    Cabol - polkiu - n/a
    Dark Nikuman - Whistle baby - n/a
    DarkBlazeR - Supersymmetry - n/a
    Demist - Grayscale World - n/a
    Enguarde - Carrot Of Faith - n/a
    gengarsnemisis - gl2me - n/a
    ginganinja - WeAllLoveBirkal - n/a
    Goutland - Ane - n/a
    H-C - not a champion - n/a
    Jayde - poohoe - n/a
    Jimbon - Jim Bon Jovi - n/a
    Jirachi - Garchompfan26 - n/a
    Lavos Spawn - zeal feels good - n/a
    Level 51 - outside in the sun - n/a
    lokt - 22.201 - n/a
    LucaroarkZ - not your avg user - n/a
    Melee Mewtwo - Outsiders Mewtwo - n/a
    Milos - Pastor Herb - n/a
    Ninelol - ninelolz - n/a
    NixHex - TragicQueendom - n/a
    Phazon00 - till the end - n/a
    Princess Bri - outsider homegirl - n/a
    q p - Riolu Girl - n/a
    Raide890 - Strayver-Tried - n/a
    RealmofInsanity - TSMTSM - n/a
    Remedy - RemedyJoestar - n/a
    The Unlucky one - What is Rain? - n/a
    Turtle Soup - Sup Son - n/a
    tyranitarphantom - We Out - n/a
    White symphoni - Chocolate Wizard - [2000] | Discussion


    After completing the challenge, here are some questions you should think about!
    1. What did you think was the biggest challenge when not being allowed to use any of the restricted Pokemon? Was it overcomeable?
    2. How did you feel the challenge tested your metagame skill? Did it make playing much harder, or were you still able to leaderboard with relative ease.
    3. What is your opinion on how overpowered the Pokemon that you were not allowed to use, but were required to face? Were they too strong to deal with, are there metagame shifts you would consider to correct this? Please don't derail the thread with a constant debate over this point, only reply once you've won!
    4. What team style did you use, and how did it fare against the metagame? Were there team styles you couldn't beat? (As an aside, please share your team with an importable! It'll be fun to disect those, and you may even be featured in a Smog article!)
    5. What is your personal opinion on this challenge?
    As an aside, please, please, please feel free to discuss how your challenge is going! You can ask for team help, advice, and other things in this thread as well.
  2. Huntofthelion

    Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 2, 2008
    Hall of Fame

    • .
    • .
    • White symphoni - Chocolate Wizard - 2042 - [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      "I loved it when I thrashed a couple of rain teams with a mon below 1% usage."
    • Melee Mewtwo - mewtwoalt90200 - 2000 - [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
      "The fact that a majority of my opponents' had absolutely no clue what to do about these threats or what to expect from them was a very satisfying bonus."

    Mark II (open)
    • senegal - tunisia - 1966 - [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      "I think what Im appreciating most from this challenge is the difference between pkmn with niche roles and those with much broader responsibilities."
    • Jobriq - TunakTunakTaco - 1961 - [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      "I used a full stall Hail team with the deceptively bulky SubRoost Kyurem to pressure stall those troublesome high power moves that often come with a measley 8 pp, and also to blast things with its deadly Blizzard."
    • The Great Mighty Doom - Kuni - 1941 - [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      "I used a Bulky Offense Sand team based around a Stoutland sweep, utilizing Specs Magnezone to take out the steel types that resist Stoutland's STAB. It fared pretty great against the metagame and no particular playstyle caused any major issues."
    • Lavos Spawn - oven mitts - 1927 - [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
      "Playing wasn't especially difficult, because I feel like I came up with a team that really compensated for the bans by utilizing some underrated threats."
    • ganj4lf - EvilGrin02 - 1879
    • Chimpakt - Champact - 1852
    • XKnightX - Unfaithful - 1850

    Mark I (open)
    1500+ Points:

    • McMeghan [[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]] (McPollo - 1505) Sand Stall
    "Gliscor is a beast in the current metagame, able to check a truckload of annoying threat like Terrakion, Lucario, ScarfMence, Scizor and some other."
    1450-1499 Points:
    • ShakeItUp [[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]] (-TheEnd- - 1463) Hyper Offense
    "Props: [. . .] Fatecrashers for building the awesome team"
    1400-1449 Points:

    • MetaGross66 [[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]] (Pokmi - 1420) Sand Stall
    "I'll admit I started with offense and switched to stall. Non-weather offense wasn't working past 1350 so I reverted to all out stall."

    • Lady Alex [[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]] (Ocean of Hourai - 1409) Baton Pass
    "Shamelessly BSed my way up with baton pass ^_^"
    • Xanderpitz [[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]] (Xanderpitz2 - 1404) Baton Pass
    "It took a lot more battles than I was hoping for, but since I was using Baton Pass crithax kept setting me back."
  3. ginganinja

    ginganinja How do I live? How do I breathe?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 13, 2009
    Name: ginganinja
    Alt: WeAllLoveBirkal
    Ladder standing: None yet!
  4. Jirachee

    Jirachee scootin
    is a Tournament Directoris an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Leader

    Sep 24, 2010
    Name: Jirachi
    Alt: Garchompfan26
    Ladder standing: no
  5. Phazon00


    Aug 19, 2012
    Yay, it's back!

    Name: Phazon00
    Alt: till now
    Ladder Standing: 1807 Glicko2 thus far.
  6. Turtle Soup

    Turtle Soup

    Nov 14, 2012
    This looks interesting, been wanting to do something similar so I'll give it a try when I have time. However I have question. For the usage statistic (the below 25% thing) should we look at the November standard stats or the suspect ones? Cause there are some pretty major differences between them.
  7. Admiral Bobbery

    Admiral Bobbery

    Aug 1, 2012
    I want to do this but my laptop won't work so I'm going to have to wait until I get home from college to actually start laddering if that's ok.

    Name: Admiral Bobbery
    Alt: General Bobbery
    Ladder Standing: No
  8. NixHex

    NixHex ONE YEAR Seizure Free!! God bless keppra.
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Oct 6, 2009
    Name: NixHex
    Alt: TragicQueendom
    Ladder standing: None yet!
  9. ginganinja

    ginganinja How do I live? How do I breathe?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 13, 2009
    Use the standard stats (even though it prolly should be suspect states due to higher quality of players...)

    As a side note, please do let us OU mods if there is something we can do to make these challenges better. Decreased Participation basically means these projects will end up cancelled so if you have suggestions please do share since it benefits everyone and hopefully increases participation.
  10. H-C


    Oct 6, 2010
    Name: H-C
    Alt: not a champion
    Ladder standing: 1887 Glicko2
  11. Level 51

    Level 51 google sheets is my spirit animal
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

    Dec 16, 2011
    Weird, I thought I already posted my signup form

    Name: Level 51
    Alt: outside in the sun wow I really screwed up my first alt; my new one is Level 51 Sucks. I just realised I'm screwing up ALL my alts ffs
    Ladder Standing: none [yet ;)]
    Team % Aggregate (just because I feel like it lol): 24.583%
  12. Reymedy

    Reymedy Colt Python 357 Magnum.
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Oct 17, 2012
    This picture is so ugly :>

    Name : Remedy
    Alt : RemedyJoestar
    Ladder standing : 1900 Glicko / 85 Deviation
  13. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

    Aug 11, 2011
    Hmm, so aggregate usage of 25%? Let's give this a shot.

    Name: LucaroarkZ
    Alt: not your avg user
    Ladder standing: nope
  14. Turtle Soup

    Turtle Soup

    Nov 14, 2012
    Name: Turtle Soup
    Alt: Sup Son
    Ladder standing: none

    Another question. So can I use a highly rated mon if the rest of my team is has really low usage? For example I could use something with 20% usage if the other five are all under 1%? Of course that's an extreme example, I just want to make sure I understand the rules correctly.
  15. gengarsnemisis


    Dec 2, 2011
    This looks reallllly challenging.
    Name: Gengarsnemisis
    Alt: gl2me
    Ladder standing: none
  16. buddhism


    Aug 8, 2012
    This seems really, really hard. But I like it!

    Name : buddhism
    Alt : Windows 2000
    Ladder standing: none
  17. Cabol


    Nov 28, 2012
    Name: Cabol
    Alt: Cabol1986
    Ladder standing: none at this time
    Team %: 24.81% | Real %: 24.34
  18. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex Mew is blue
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 28, 2010
    Name: Lady Alex
    Alt: Triangles
    Ladder Standing: None
  19. Enguarde

    Enguarde I only play ADV UU
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 8, 2012
    Name: Enguarde
    Alt: Carrot Of Faith
    Ladder standing: Currently none
  20. ClubbingSealCub


    Jun 23, 2012
    This is one of the reasons I think we should use the suspect test instead of the regular OU stats, mainly because they reflect a metagame that no longer exists; since the stats are all fucked up to accomodate Genesect.

    For example, right now a team can pack SubSalac or Double Dance Terrakion (11% usage, 19% on Suspect) and Scarf Keldeo (5%, 20% suspect) and still have an 8% "budget" left to complete the team, which is in my opinion enough to get a decent team going around those two powerhorses (pun intended). Likewise, Tyranitar + Keldeo adds up to 17%, and we all know how effective this combination is. Thundurus-T sits at 6% when in suspect it's a 9% mon. Tornadus went from 6% to 16%. Jirachi shot up from 11% to 17%. In the end, we have all these mons that were so-so back then because of Genesect availible to use as "outsiders" now; and packing a mon that is currently in one out of five teams and slapping some decent, not top-tier mons to support it doesn't sound very "outsiderish" to me.

    Likewise, we also have "bad" mons that are taxing our budget too much. Infernape was 8% last month because it could outspeed and KO Genesect, when its true usage is 4%. Cloyster's value goes from 9% to 3%. There's no way Alakazam nor Espeon could pull off an 8% in this meta.

    I could go on, but I think you get the point - we can't pick this metagame's outsiders when using last metagame's suspect stats.
  21. Raide890


    Dec 3, 2012
    Name: Strayver
    Alt: Strayver-Tried, King Bird
    Ladder standing: None yet!

    First attempt at anything like this. Seems fun.
    Edit: Well my first attempt at a team went rough. I need to think of a better answer to rain the Thunderous-T as I was getting smacked by rain teams. And every other team is a rain team :(
  22. Cabol


    Nov 28, 2012
    Pardon my noobness (new to the whole paying attention to the ladder thing) but what is the Deviation score? I see we need to hit 75 but I have no idea what that is -.-'
  23. dice

    dice Tournament Banned
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Feb 24, 2012
    Name: Princess Bri
    Alt: outsider homegirl
    Ladder standing: n

    I like the second tag.
  24. Jayde

    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Jul 20, 2011
    Name: Jayde
    Alt: poohoe
    Ladder standing: wh
  25. ginganinja

    ginganinja How do I live? How do I breathe?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 13, 2009
    For example Number #1 on the PS ladder is

    1 ImBacknBlack 2122 93.8 2212 ± 63

    2122 is his ACRE
    93.8 is his GXE
    2212 is his Glicko2
    63 is his Deviation


    I read your post, and I agree that suspect statistics represent a clearer picture of the metagame, but the statistics are also slightly more inflated due to less battles. Regardless, switching to suspect ladder atm could quite possibly make this challenge very tricky (despite what you claim, and 8% budget over 4 pokemon is not quite as easy as it sounds. I will be following the challenge and assessing whether the percentage mark is too easy / hard, and we can look at changing it / going to suspect ladder in the future. There are a few more reasons why I picked the standard ladder over suspect but for now, I hope this explanation will have to do. Rest assured I am reading every post and thinking on how to improve the challenge for the possible future.
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