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The Power of Big Birds, Kacaw Style!

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by trickroom, Feb 26, 2013.

?

Which is the Best BIRD?

  1. Skarmory

    16.7%
  2. Archeops

    16.7%
  3. Ho-Oh

    38.4%
  4. Honchkrow

    28.7%
  5. Shaymin-S

    15.1%
  6. Giratina-O

    13.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Lugiatina

    Lugiatina

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    I personally really like this team. It's creative and you seem to really master the use of relatively unpopular pokemon in ubers. I've tried using this team and it was extremely difficult seeing as I found Ho-Oh was not bulky enough due to Life Orb and I had problems with Kyogre and some with Dialga. Even though Ho-Oh could probably take on Dialga on his own, there seemed to be way too much pressure of keeping him alive for other specially based threats. I found Shaymin a little too weak as a revenge killer, despite being fast and all.

    I don't know how you do it trickroom, first you put Gyarados to good use, now Birds, even with the Ice, Electric, and Stealth Rock weakness (maybe giving me a few pointers on how to use this team maybe?)

    Also, once 6th gen comes out Yveltal is definitely a candidate for the tribe of elite birds.

    I don't really see Shaymin S as a bird though due to the fact that he is a mammal with no beak, talons, or feathers who flies with Dumbo elephant ears, but he does check Kyogre, Groudon, and in some cases Palkia very well. Although, he kinda didn't do his job in flinch haxing very well in my experience.
  2. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Deoxys-S is a fine replacement over Skarmory for the much higher Speed if you really need it. Zekrom and Reshiram are also issues. There are a few advantages of Skarmory over Deoxys-S
    1) It is immune to sandstorm, and Tyranitar can't limit you to one layer
    2) Skarmory can still phaze the opponent, such as SD Arceus trying to setup on your lead
    3) No one expects to see Custap Skarmory as a suicide lead, people think they are walls.
    4) Skarmory doesn't care about Giratina-O lacking Hidden Power Fire or Thunder which is becoming rarer these days
    5) Deoxys-A can't 2HKO without using Thunder or maybe Rash Ice Beam. Superpower, Shadow Ball and Extremespeed will do little damage.
    6) In case they try to spam Thunder to paralyze you, Custap Berry still has a good chance to activate as long as you don't get fully paralyzed.

    But then, this is a bird team, no aliens allowed :[
    Thanks for liking the team :)

    Ho-Oh and Giratina-O are the only ones in the team who are capable of tanking so don't rely on that too much. This team basically forces you to attack straight up after setting up with Skarmory. All the birds outrun Support Dialga, and those fast Choice Specs versions are unfortunately hard to deal with. Honchkrow has Superpower too to almost KO max HP Dialga.

    Yeah Shaymin-S was horribly weak sometimes which is why I used Choice Specs earlier. It gives you a much better chance of flinching things like Lugia and Giratina to death.

    Those Ice, Electric and Stealth Rock weakness are sad, but only prediction can help and you just have to hit back hard. Groudon dies to Shaymin-S, Skarmory can Taunt it, and if it is a fast SR Dialga or Scarf Deoxys-S, then they will probably get up their rocks by surprise.

    Yeah I am looking forward to Yveltal, it does look like a strong candidate for birds, maybe a new king of birds?

    Well Shaymin-S has feathers, maybe wings as ears LOL. Yeah I never flinch people much with it, you can even see in the last few replays, Air Slash never flinches. Also, it can fly and lives in the sky. There are no Grass Birds, Jumpluff isn't a bird at all and it sucks.

    Thanks for rating.

    You can also ask user Donkey on how to use Birds effectively, but his team was from a different era, the time when Dinosaurs and Birds were once united as one to deal with sea monsters.
  3. polop

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    I really think a Tornadus might fit well on this team, so then Archeops and Ho-Oh don't have to worry about being revenge-killed and can sweep easily thanks to the boost to speed from Tailwind (but its a spirit so idk if you could call it a bird (but you called Gira-O a bird... then again it has wings... but tornadus-I's wings are hidden behind clouds) also slightly eases problem against Kyogre and is more reliable against Deo-s then Skymin, but your going to have rely on a physical set using Flying Gem Acrobatics + BU + Tailwind + Superpower instead or Hurricane + Focus Blast. The problem is I don't know what it could substitute really, so its just a suggestion.

    This team clearly demonstrates mastery of the metagame, I wish you luck with it trickroom :P.

    Skymin is not a dumbo, its just so lightweight and its petals allow it to glide and the air that can be pushed under it outweighs the force / accel that is gravity due to the lack of mass.
  4. ScoobyDoom

    ScoobyDoom

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    english is not my first language so yeah. yu ddidnt have to be mean about it an post such a mean picture escecially sicnce the goal of this channel is to inspire people to play pokeom not make them not feel unwelcome.
  5. trickroom

    trickroom
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    No one is being mean to you. I just said Forretress is unacceptable for this team.

    UPDATE: Added replays about new birds in testing! Zapdos, Lugia and Staraptor. Aerodactyl was a joke.
  6. syrim

    syrim 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1

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    Trickroom, the apostleship giving, internship creator, the head of all things Uber, I must inform you of the following. Skymin; is hedgehog.

    http://puu.sh/2bhsO
  7. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Syrim the strongest dude, I mean look at your pecs in the avatar...

    Ugh Skymin looks like a hedgehog and a canid in the sky forme, but it is 100% BIRD.
    This is the reason why I put 50% hedgehog, 50% dog. She is still a true bird! Birds have feathers, can fly and they are soft creatures matches Skymin perfectly :) Why will you choose to be a hedgehog when you can fly high like a bird.

    Zapdos turned out to be pretty bad in the testing, Staraptor was better but still iffy. Lugia is just a fat wall and tanks well but sucks at retaliating. Will probably test other birds, not Swanna though, she was dropped out.
  8. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Idk if this has been mentioned before but I'll just give this little suggestion. Try ScarfMence over Honchkrow?

    Salamence was a huge eagle (look at its mouth) in its previous life feasting on fish, however Arceus the bird harasser captured it and demoted it to a small impling thing known as Bagon. However it did not forget the state of its previous life and strived to be able to fly again. Through its determination, it became a huge flying dragon and joined the birds in their quest against Arceus.

    Anyway, I think a ScarfMence will be a much better option over Honchy because of its dragon typing allowing it to scare away other unboosted dragons summoned by Arceus trying to halt the rampage of the birds. It is so intimidating that even the ExtremeKiller trembles in fear and gets its attack lowered. Alternatively, it can take on the mob boss role of Honchkrow and get more and more unstoppable as it attacks with Moxie. Finally, it allows the deceptively graceful hedgehog to perform a role in which she truly shines as a Specs user. Mence is so amazing that it becomes a Sala-menace with its huge offensive stats and coverage and two amazing abilities to choose from

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Intimidate/Moxie
    252 Atk / 4SAtk / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    -Outrage
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Blast

    When Salamenace is outraged by the pitiful attempts to stop the flight of the birds, Outrage is what you get. Dragon Claw is saved for when Salamenace doesn't want to lock himself in so he can pass the baton to someone else. Earthquake decimates anything trying to wall him and Fire Blast punishes any Skarm trying to betray the birds.
  9. trickroom

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    Well that's a long comment about Salamence the new bird. The thing is, if I am going to replace someone with Salamence, it will be Archeops. Honchkrow is actually pretty important with that Sucker Punch, Heat Wave and strong Brave Bird. Insomnia/Moxie helps quite a lot too.

    Archeops is ruined by Defeatist, so I could consider testing Salamence over it, whenever Salamence reincarnates to be a bird. Bagon does look like a bird wannabe, as he always wanted to fly.

    People only use Scarf Salamence with MOXIE, Intimidate sucks for it. Sadly, Salamence looks like a flying lizard, maybe it is some mutant bird I guess since you did provide some convincing history about Miss Salamander. Thank you, I might test it sometime.

    One thing, Extremekiller usually makes Salamence tremble in fear, not the other way round unless Salamence already gotten 2-3 boosts. Good Rate!

    Re-testing Tornadus-T, turns out to be pretty good actually. Leftovers Ho-Oh and a different Giratina-O set were also tested at the moment.
  10. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    Rock Arceus is stupidly mean to Birds. Sadly, there isn't much you can about it as there isn't a bird that can hit it hard enough. :( Maybe sticking Toxic as a filler somewhere can add extra chip damage? Only problem is that nothing can stall it out long enough for the poison to kill it. Oh well, Rockceus is super rare and most of the people who use it against Birds are just cowardly counter-teamers.
  11. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    Have you considered running Latios/Latias to ease the Kyogre weakness?I think I read somewhere that the eon twins were some kind of birds.They have two legs just like birds,have wings,can fly and learns roost,and more importantly,hits hard and fast.Either of them could be very useful member of your team,checking kyogre and rockceus to an extent.Perhaps they can fit in over Arcehops as a fast hard hitter.

    Another thing is that,you look very weak to SD Rayquaza.Variants with Dragon Claw can cleanly sweep you at +2,OHKOing your entire team after rocks with Espeed and killing of Giratina with Dclaw.Outrage variants can sweep after Giratina dies.I guess it can be played around but looks very dangerous.How do you deal with it?
  12. trickroom

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    The Lati twins do look like birds in some ways but when I asked several players, they said nope, Latias doesn't look like one. They are fast has feathers and yeah wings too, maybe I should reconsider them. Sadly, they are not flying-types :[

    Rayquaza cannot setup on anyone, so I am ok with that, Archeops can beat those SD versions since I am faster and resists Extremespeed. Shaymin-S revenges Dragon Dance variants but they usually cannot setup on birds anyway.

    Thanks for rating.

    Yeah Rock Arceus pretty much walls all the birds :[ not much I can do about it, Melee Mewtwo.

    EDIT: updated replays and added Salamence, Zapdos and moved Tornadus-T.
  13. Enguarde

    Enguarde I only play ADV UU
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    Once this RMT was released, I knew that the birds were coming, and all Ubers players must be prepared. Therefore I trained against the surge of bird teams on the Ubers ladder, watched many tough battles where even the strongest players fell to these superpowered avians, and learned their sneaky airborne tactics in order to bring them to the ground.

    All jokes aside this team is great and excellent fun to use and battle against. And has inspired me to use Honchkrow in a few of my own teams for testing and it hasn't disappointed. I've been lucky enough to battle many variations of this team wielded by their master Trickroom, and its always been an exciting affair since these feathered creatures do not go down without a fight!

    Without further ado, I present the fall of the birds!

    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11158120
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11156955
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11157829
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11160357

    But one cannot get too complacent when engaging in combat with these buff birds, for they will exact revenge! Lots of it D:

    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11158484

    In terms of a constructive rate there isn't too much to say as I know you've tried just about every potentially viable bird out there and realised whats good and what just hack it in this powerful tier. Even though I've had the pleasure of fighting just about all the birds against you my favourite is still the original team with the nice addition of healing wish on Shaymin to allow an almost fallen bird to live again and wreak havoc.

    Great job :]

    And remember come October the birds will gain a new force!

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
  14. trickroom

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    Yeah the birds are coming back, with newly added avians. The mighty Enguarde defeated the birds, and a mission was carried out to recruit new potentials. After multiple testing, almost every single good bird was tested, including Zapdos, Articuno, Mandibuzz, Skarmory and even bird wannabes Salamence, Flygon and Latios.

    Latias never changed her mind, she still thinks Dragon > Bird, and as such was never eventually tested. Latios on the other hand, became a new general of birds. He slayed many Kyogre and Groudon along the way. For that, he gained the trust of Ho-Oh. Some other things which had been tried are Sunny Day Ho-Oh, Specially Defensive resttalk Lugia, Togekiss and even CB Flygon. Weather sweepers are hard to deal with because they can cheat and outrun the birds, Sunny Day was pretty game changing and can swing the battle to your side. In the sun, even Kyogre hates Ho-Oh, think little dogs called Ninetales trying to beat Froggy in OU.

    With some help from the new birds, they managed to launch a successful counter-attack against Enguarde's powerful land and Dragon armies. He even bribed some Honchkrow to join his team, and since mr.Krow is a traitor, well you will know what happened :)
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11159748
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11159515

    In the end, Enguarde and the birds tied...with no real winner. As for the final victory, only time will tell.
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11175379
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11238534

    Thanks for that solid rate, and replays! There could finally be a new king of birds in October when the evil Eagle rise from Hell.

    Just realized in a few of the those replays, I was actually using Pressure Ho-Oh, no wonder I died to SR when I switched out at 36% lol. If I was using Regenerator the match would have been closer.
  15. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    birds they own the are your homies
    the only thing i recommend is having atleast 4 evs in SDef in every pokemon ecluding Ho-Oh because Specially Based Scarf Gene craps on this team and all Shaymin can due is flinch but most likely will it get an ice beam soon, also one question, is Rayquaza considered a bird because it has the determination of a serpent while flying elegantly like a bird should (unless it uses hyper beam thats a diff story) and also you know oh heatran, trying to call himself a bird with its air balloon but once it pops there it goes falling into groudon land hahaha stupid balloon "birds" KACAW!!!!!!!!
  16. trickroom

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    Giratina-O needs a more physically bulky variant to take on SD Arceus and friends. Also, it helps check Ho-Oh and Groudon better, especially those Rock Polish sets. Archeops and Shaymin-S are using 4 SpD EVs and yeah I noticed giving Genesect an Atack boost is better, I already stated that in the RMT, check Archeops section.

    Honchkrow has naturally higher Special Defense so the last 4 EVs doesn't really matter. Rayquaza is never a bird, it doesn't even have wings lol. Salamence >> Rayquaza.
    Latias and Latios both have wings, two legs, feathers and as stated by White symphoni earlier, they hit hard and are fast.

    Updated with newer replays separated by ---
    Honchkrow was so far the best bird ever, excluding Ho-Oh obviously and Skarmory's niche is already known in Ubers. Both Moxie and Insomnia benefits Honchkrow quite a lot and sometimes a Sucker Punch + Moxie sweep can be really lethal.

    Now I think Latios might be a better replacement over Archeops because he can beat Rayquaza as well as check Kyogre, OHKO Groudon and hit hard in general. He is also bulkier and isn't weak to Stealth Rock. Sadly, Latios isn't a real bird and Archeops has that sexy Acrobatics + Head Smash to OHKO Ho-Oh regardless. Latios can Psyshock Ho-Oh but will not OHKO at full health.

    Perhaps the most important thing Latios can do is to OHKO non Scarf Zekrom. He also resists Electric which is a nice bonus to the birds but I am not sure whether Latios is really a bird.
  17. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    http://birding.about.com/od/Bird-Trivia/a/What-Is-A-Bird.htm

    According to this link Latios is a bird. (or well, it is from what we know) It has wings, feathers, beak (kinda sorta), advanced communication and feet. (I think they pull out but I know from the movie that it can transform into humans, lol)
  18. trickroom

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    Then so, Latios is really a bird :) Thanks for clarifying that. Latios is a migratory pokemon too and frequently navigates around the Kanto/Hoenn region, so yeah he is a BIRD. He has high metabolism and oh is bipedal as well. The only thing lacking is a prominent beak :[
  19. ZoroDark

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    Aw, whenever I saw trickroom and kacaw, the image of Gyarados immediately popped up. I was kinda disappointed when I didn't see it in your team. Oh well, this RMT is in 3 words a-ma-zing, pretty funny too. Pretty sure Latios is a bird(seriously though, give me another explanation how you can be such a dick to catch in RSE), so I would go ahead and use that over Archeops who's too rusty to fly as quickly and elegantly as Latios.
  20. trickroom

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    Sad but true, Gyarados isn't a bird. If you like the RMT do leave a luvdisc so I know you liked it :) Yeah Latios is a bird according to most of the characteristics. Archeops was ok, but defeatist is just too horrible, and Acrobatics + Head Smash is strong, sadly Impish Groudon and Giratina walls it.

    Updated with importables for many bird teams which are successful, some sucks, such as those with Noctowl, Mandibuzz and Swellow. Those who suck are not included sorry. Cresselia is added because she is a duck after all and ducks are birds. Porygon2 is not tried yet because it can't fly, is vulnerable to Spikes and is really slow.

    The result of the poll shows that Honchkrow really is the best bird excluding Ho-Oh. From the test results ( check replays ), Honchkrow really is the best and most threatening out of all the birds due to his decent movepool and access to cool abilities. Sucker Punch rapes Mewtwo and can used in a pinch to revenge kill it, if the opponent tries to play smart and use non attacking moves instead, Brave Bird is always the best move and it will deal massive damage to almost anything including Arceus.
  21. JirachiCelebiMew

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    I am an occasional Ubers players, and I admire you for using these Pokemon, I love this team, and I left a luvdisc :). So I was thinking hard, and I might have found a good Pokemon for your team: Blaziken.

    [​IMG]

    Blaziken @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Protect
    - Flare Blitz
    - High Jump Kick

    Standard Blaziken, and yes chickens are birds.

    It isn't weak to SR, although Spikes and TSpikes affect it :(
  22. trickroom

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    Yeah Theorymon was suggesting Blaziken earlier too, and chickens are birds. Sadly, he takes damage from Spikes :( I will think about it more, and probably reconsider it but I tried Blaziken on this team before actually. The bad news is Blaziken is slow before a boost and needs the sun to gain certain OHKOes. I can't find anyone to be replaced by Blaziken on the main team though, so I will have to make a new bird team for it when I try it.

    Thanks :)
  23. Beyonddabinary

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    Why not change the nature to Naughty then? It would fit with Honchkrow's theme too :P
  24. trickroom

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    Honchkrow can take one Focus Blast from Ghost Arceus after Stealth Rock with Lonely, and it actually lets Honchkrow survived one attack from weaker pokemon such as survive one Ice Beam from Grass Arceus at full health and OHKO back with Brave Bird.

    Yeah Honchkrow is a naughty bird but this team is competitive, needs a better nature. Lonely doesn't sound so bad, Honchkrow is a lonely bird and usually comes at night mostly. He's king of crows though. Well naughty does let Honchkrow survive Shadow Sneak better but ExtremeSpeed will still deal huge damage anyway.

    Thanks for mentioning though! Good idea to use naughty because that crow is naughty.
  25. lousy918

    lousy918

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    idk u also seem a tad weak to mamoswine, especially with sr. it OHKOs skymin easily with ice shard, OHKOs Ho-oh with SR or Stone Edge. it plays mind games with honchkrow, since u cannot sucker punch if it ice shards and it OHKOs with icicle crash

    252Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Ice Shard vs 0HP/0Def Honchkrow (Neutral): 92% - 109% (314 - 372 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 53% chance to OHKO.

    archeops cannot revenge if sr is up
    252Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Ice Shard vs 4HP/0Def Archeops (Neutral): 90% - 107% (264 - 314 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 44% chance to OHKO.

    skarmory lacks recovery so its not gonna last forever. also its 2HKOed after sr:

    44% - 52%
    252Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Icicle Crash vs 252HP/4Def Sturdy Skarmory (Neutral): 44% - 52% (147 - 175 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 7% chance to 2HKO.

    it also 2hkos giratina-o regardless
    and icicle crash has a 30% chance to flinch gira-o, Ho-oh and skarm

    on a side note honchkrows def and sdef are equal

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