... i never realised post count meant anything sorry\Lurk more please.
... i never realised post count meant anything sorry\Lurk more please.
It doesn't. A lot of people are good and rarely post. It's just if you have no exerience in a metagame then act like you do (which is obvious, and people do it in Ubers and past gens the most) then people will obviously tell you that's what you're doing.... i never realised post count meant anything sorry
So how is Ghostceus better than Darceus?Arceus-Ghost has been bumped up to A+
Added Chansey rank.
No more Chansey discussion from this point on, you will be at risk for infractions if you don't adhere to this rule.
This part has absolutely no relevance at all, it's just blabbering. You can just say you disagree with these mons rank cause this is just substance-less text atm. The last sentence is not even funny as you can't give an concrete examples of anything.There are two Pokemon that I'm really displease with this generation: Scizor and Landorus-T. There are tons and tons of Scizors, Lando-T, Xern teams out there and it looks really good on paper, and it performs reasonably well in practice too. The problem is this tho, Scizor and Lando-T have jobs that are hard to replace in respect to the other Uber pokemon such as Scarf Zekrom or Palkia or Kyogre. If you don't want to use Scarf Zekrom then Scarf Kyogre might fit you team better or whatever. Scizor tho, I know why people use it, but ultimately it is the dependence factor that makes them weaker. There are an unbelievable amount of stuff and strategy that just plows through the common xern,scizor,lando-t teams that it is not even funny.
Even though it was impossible to understand what you meant at first (poorly worded) I think I got your point here. Scizor and Lando-t have niches that aren't common, as well as big flaws. Okay more ranting, I get it.There is just more flaws with Scizor and Lando-T to a lesser degree then other ubers pokemon such ad Palkia or dialga but scizor and lando-T van perform roles that are not as common to the uber roster. This is part of the reason why I feel the sixth generation is gettinh more stale compare with 5th gen. There is just not that equilibrium where you kinda have equal amount or threats and checks to threats in the metagame.
First sentence is relevant. Second is an opinion, although I take it as you mean it would me nice if Scizor OHKOd Xerneas. HP Fire Xerneas is standard, it's the third slash in the lat moveslot in the analysis (but it should admittedly be slashed before lol focus blast). Scizor did check Ekiller with superpower before fire moves were standard on it (will get to that later), it scares support Arceus with Toxic and it can still be a decent defoger against some builds. It is also a pretty good pursuit trapper for stall teams, specially defensive Scizor takes a HP Fire from Gengar. Since Pursuit is mandatory on stall teams with Gengar prone mons (like defensive Xerneas or Sylveon), Scizor has a significant niche on those teams as stall is an archetype where you can afford to double up on checks to things (like having Lugia for Xerneas back up). Obviously Scizor isn't to be used on offensive teams, and with balance as an archetype fallen out of grace, Scizor finds its best niche on stall where things doesn't have to "hang" on it, since you have more than one check to things. So that's a short summary of what Scizor can do outside punching Xerneas. Nice last sentence.Even scizor, people use it because for obvious reason, you can get off a bullet punch on xern at any moment with any health left blah blah blah. Bullet punch from mega variant don't do enough damage imo and guess what? Xern can learn HP fire too, which I think should be standard but some people obviously don't know about this fact. Also scizor sucks hard as a defogger I mean whay is it doing outside of checking Xern I really do not know. It has U-Turn, a slow one at that which can be used effectively sometimes but why? Scizor is food for ho-oh and just fails to support arceus, cannot really deal with anything at all. But sometimes you are building a balance team and you need to compact roles because of the increase in threats this gen and the available choice just become smaller and smaller and smaller and then you are left with scizor scizor scizor, ahahhhhahhhhhh, GOD I hate using this pathetic excuse of a Pokemon. I mean look at it, It has freaking Pincer for arm, how do you even get off bro?
Yeah it's a cute comparison but when you realise Lando-T isn't Groudon and can't be compared to it in the same way, they both have different niches and Lando-T isn't an Ekiller counter and shouldn't be used as one. Phazing is Groudon's big niche over Lando-T, Fire-moves being somewhat relevant as Ferrothorn is good in the meta (but much less common wtf). Lando-T makes your team less weak to Groudon, Blaziken and Ho-oh so there is that. AS in offensive sets, Lando-T isn't affected by sticky webs and has Explosion, which are some cool traits. Groudon is still a very good mon but I feel it's easier to fit Lando-T on most builds, especially stall since it can check Blaziken better than most mons. The statement about "being OHKOd by all scarfers except this example" is flimsy and doesn't really add much substance to your argument. A scarfer has to lock itself into a move to KO, so it automatically opens itself up to being walled by something on your team. Gets wrecked by anything faster than it: sure but why no keep up the comparison with Groudon and give us some examples where Groudon does better? I don't see how Groudon fares better vs Yveltal, Darkrai, BU MMX etc.Then there is Lando-T. Lando, Lando, Lando. It's good at setting up rocks, which would be better last gen but that's a different story. I strongly believe that Groudon is better than Lando if we were to average up all the usage in all the different teams, this is what I believe. Groudon has sustain physically defense and can use fire moves which I don't think lando can. It has PHAZING. What does lando-T actially accomplish against lum berry carrier Ekiller? I really want to know. Ohhh but it fllllliiiiiiesssss. It fly, big deal. Ok, maybe it is a big deal but that doesn't take away from it's ability to get one shot from all the scarf carriers except zekrom and get wreak by anything faster than it.
In conclusion? How do you conclude anything from a post full of nothing? Oh well so you give us a nice choice here. Thanks. Either we agree that these two mons are shit (they aren't) or we disagree and then the METAGAME IS DOOMED OMGOMGOMG. Nice. I don't understand any words after "metagame," lol. Like what is "more exploitable than ever before" supposed to mean? Are we comparing to gen5 again? And what is "more" supposed to mean? How can you conclude that without any facts whatsoever? The last sentence is bull.In conclusion, is Scizor and Lando-T really that bad, they may not be, but if that's the case then the metagame is heading in some downward spiral. Scizor and Lando-T are good in this metagame, but what's good in today metagame is more exploitable than ever before. Some people may like this and claim it to be more opportunity for diversity while others may criticize it for removingsome undeniable security and actually makes the game more centralize.
Post is 2/10, focus on making yourself understood (it was hard to get anything out of this), being more concrete and be more objective. Nice try as you are partically correct about Scizor- it is a bit worse than it used to be.So what is your opinion on this?
oh it must have been someone on IRC asking why was tenta so much so worse as a geoxern check when melee & others were discussing the nidoqueen analysis. Anyways, the ubers metagame is prepared for status, with the popularization of ClericXern, Sylve, etc. Tenta also has huge trouble even trying to set up tspikes, Kyogre thunders the shit out of it, M2 will rape it probably the hardest out of anything in ubers, MGar can absorb tspikes on it's 2nd switch into the field, Xern can use it as aromarest bait or geothunder bait, Arc-Ghost defogs it's hazards away, Arc-Normal uses it as set up bait, Blaziken rips everything into shreds so it's no question it will do the same to tenta WARY OF STAB, Lando-T is wary of water STAB but other than that it can beat it, Palkia thunders it, Yveltal is immune to it's hazards and 2hkos it. Also, who switches in a defogger AFTER tenta sets up 2 layers of tspikes? that might be a no brainer at first but just listen to this- if you have something vs a tenta out, why can't you literally get a free switch into your non water STAB weak defogger cause tenta isn't that strong w/o SE power. For instance, you have some odd thing that doesn't beat Tenta in on tenta, who won't you just go into arc-ghost for example for literally free defog before all this shit with tspikes poison starts. Tenta is a fairly one dimensional so switching into a defog user that isn't weak to hpump and defoging the hazards first chance you get is really easy.Tentacruel is not a geo xern check. I never claimed it to be so. Spinning is definitively preferable to defog, since it doesn't remove your hazards which goes in hand with tentacruel's toxic spikes. TS is not "easier" to remove lol. Defoggers are forced to be poisoned to remove the TS, which can be bad for them. While, true, spinners are predominantly steel types, which gives 0 fucks about TS, but it doesn't change the fact that hydro pump/scald owns these spinners lol.
Ditto needs a rank and C is appropriate.In other news, Ditto still needs to be ranked as I mentioned a couple of pages ago. Around C-Rank will do, as it is definitely a viable option and has the niche of flat out copying the opponent plus its stat changes, potentially causing switch-outs, revenge kills, or in some cases, even sweeping up of teams. However, its effectiveness in battle is ultimately situational and because Ditto almost always runs a Choice Scarf, it can be easily worked around, and in some cases, it can even become a huge liability as choosing the wrong move can result in giving opponents free turns to wreak potential havoc on your team.
Although I can see that Mewtwo sometimes seems to underperform, as its coverage is somewhat match up reliant and certain Pokemon will check the chosen variant very well, it definitely deserves its place in the S rank.Mewtwo: S --------> A+ Mewtwo is a powerful threat, don't get me wrong, but it's power doesn't seem enough to merit a place in S rank. Once it loses it's unpredictability by mega evolving it's just another Pokemon. It's typing is rather shitty, its bulk is rather mediocre and it has trouble OHKOing just about everything unless its MMX and is actually hitting for SE damage. The different formes can fit multiple roles but they just don't seem to be defining enough to keep it in S rank. The presence of Yveltal and rise of Ghostceus means that the metagame is beginning to work against it, limiting it even more. Its strapped for moveslots to hit everything hard while also lacking the moveslots to either set up, or recover most of the time. Mewtwo is a powerful threat but in my opinion its just not THAT good for S rank.
Scizor for A- rank.With respect to that I think Scizor needs to drop to at least A- Rank if not below. With respect to meta adaption, the current common coverage on the 2 pokemon it is used primarily to check - ekiller and xerneas - both of them can beat it with a relatively common coverage move. Its other utility doesn't otherwise allow it to shine. Don't think I have to say too much, but it is definitely a lot worse than we thought it was in early days.
Deoxys-S is still the face of hyper offense. The small advantage in speed and big advantage in bulk just makes it a lot more troublesome than Deoxys-A could hope to be as a double entry hazard setter, not to mention that using Taunt, Stealth Rock and Spikes on Deoxys-A effectively negates its advantage over Deoxys-S since the offensive capability between a Focus Sash and no coverage is lacking (while lacking any of those moves means they are no longer performing the same role). Even when antilead, it can sometimes come in a few turns later and manage to set 2 layers of hazards. Once it has successfully set hazards and died, a well-constructed hyper offensive team should have little difficulty either preventing or significantly delaying the removal of entry hazards with a combination of Taunt and the offensive threat of giving free turns to devastating set up sweepers, as well as potentially Darkrai's Dark Void or a Rock Polish + Explosion Landorus-T. With entry hazards maintained for a handful of turns and abused freely by major offensive threats, the opposing team will likely be too broken to manage even if the hazards are removed.IMO Deoxys-S and Lugia are way too high. Deoxys-S literally lost every niche thanks to Defog. It just can't run an offensive set and it's oretty easy to Defog on, and sure you can Taunt a support Arceus or something but you can't do anything back so you just end up losing anyway. Lugia is bad, don't think I need to explain much about that, since everything is running Toxic etc
252+ Atk Flame Plate Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas in Sun: 505-595 (110.7 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKOVicinti (C+)
A shaky xern check that cannot get phazed into hazards. Can functions as a late-game cleaner with TR. Not really sure about what this does. Steelskitty fill me in?
This sums up Charizard perfectly. It's viable but flawed and mostly outclassed by other Fire-types (Ho-Oh for Zard-Y, Blaziken for Zard-X). C+ is the highest rank it deserves, and even that is because of Zard-X alone.C-Rank said:Reserved for Pokemon with viable offensive or defensive capability. They have certain niches or utility that allow them to perform in specific roles. Reliant on fairly large amounts of team support to function and minimize their inherent flaws. They may also suffer significantly from opportunity cost to the point of being mostly outclassed.
Somebody ain't afraid of no ghost.Can someone remind dis nob why ghosty is High A rank please?
Probably the best Arceus forme at pulling off Support, Calm Mind and Swords Dance sets (although the last is perhaps often best saved for Sticky Web teams); most Arceus formes cannot conceivably succeed in more than one or two of these roles.Can someone remind dis nob why ghosty is High A rank please?
Now I see why Ghosteus is better than Darceus! :3Probably the best Arceus forme at pulling off Support, Calm Mind and Swords Dance sets (although the last is perhaps often best saved for Sticky Web teams); most Arceus formes cannot conceivably succeed in more than one or two of these roles.
And then it's mostly just the many benefits of the typing. As a Ghost-type, it can freely switch out against Shadow Tag users, as well as threatening each of them in return. Its few resistances and immunities do surprisingly much for it; it counters most Kangaskhan (as they depend on Sucker Punch for coverage against Ghosts but will get burnt instead of dealing heavy damage), can check most Extremekiller Arceus well, is a premier Mega Mewtwo X check and generally fares well against most Mewtwo. In rain it checks Blaziken too, while its few weaknesses allow it to sponge various hits well, checking things like Palkia and Dialga (at least in terms of their attacks, although it may be poisoned in the process). Its typing also allows it to spinblock, which is a much smaller advantage than in the past, but a small bonus to its typing nonetheless. Admittedly, one of its only two weaknesses does limit it, as Yveltal more or less counters it while Darkrai too threatens it significantly.
So all in all it's quite versatile, can run two different sweeper sets that are both dangerous and have largely distinct checks (apart from Yveltal), and has a typing with a few key resistances/immunities, lots of useful neutralities and only two weaknesses, of which only the Dark-type one is significant (most Ghost-types are defensive, it can escape Gengar's Shadow Tag and it threatens almost every Ghost more than they threaten it). Bonuses of the typing in spinblocking and especially in escaping Shadow Tag give an extra edge.
Phys def clafable also counters ekiller to hell and back.~First bit is going to be a response to orch's suggestions.~
Tenta I'm fine with re-adding without getting an analysis first since it was on the list last gen. I wouldn't stick it above B-, though. It's a pretty specialized mon since it doesn't actually check anything significant alone. It's key niches are handling hazards and laying t spikes but it's only really optimal for those builds on more defensive teams that need something more sturdy than a Scolipede. C+, imo.
Can we wait til it's passed? I'm not really sure when a team would actually *want* a Talonflame. It just seems sorta Stunfisk-esque in that it can do something but what worth is that? It's greatest niche is at cleaning teams which is pretty damn situational. I guess it can also annoy softer offensive threats? Strong priority isn't actually so hard to find that I want to dig for something as specialized as Talon. If we do add it, I'd rather not see it as high as C+.
Victini's got a legit niche and it's okay overall so C+ sounds fair for it.
Taggers are so good at opening new options for a team and Goth is no exception. For starters, it's one of the two go-to taggers for Webs offense. Also works really well with other mons, like Kangaskhan, that appreciate the defensive, specially-oriented mons being out of the way. It's not at all dead-weight on it's own if you use the TR set and if you don't build a team that crutches on it. I know I'm obviously biased for it but C+ is lol. B is much more fair, imo. (although personally I'd rank it higher)
Lugiass is good for A-, defo one of the first mons to consider for defensive builds and shit.
Fair for Fairy Arceus.
???? Unless Mewtwo runs Shadow Ball, it can't touch Deo-D while Deo-D 3HKOs back. If it does run Shadow Ball you can bitch about team matchup. Dropping to B- or C+ is very fair but C- is incredibly hyperbolic.
I like Kangaskhan a lot but just about every every team naturally packs hard to break checks to it cause Wisp Arceus is so good as well Mega Gengar. It's kinda teammatchup reliant unless you use Goth with it and it doesn't really add THAT much to the team on it's own while eating up your mega slot. It's a very good offensive threat but it's not the easiest thing to add onto a team. IMO, B rank is still best for it.
That stuff was already factored in when sticking in B rank. Keep in mind, to fulfill all the potential niches it has you have to run a sand setter with it which is a pretty large limit. Not every team even needs a spinner to begin with and it's punishable by so many large offensive threats. I don't really think it merits a rise.
Meh, Tar brings a lot of weaks and its a mon that on paper can do a lot but in reality is too fragile to do it all at once. It's a pretty hit or miss mon but a rise to B+ isn't unreasonable.
Fiddle with the movepool more, there's a large number of ways it can punish free turns it gets through all sorts of utility moves and it's really good at getting free turns with the typing and prankster para. It does face competition with keys, though, so a drop to B- sounds fairish but it's a very solid mon.
It's an option on stall but, like with Scizor, relying on it to Pursuit Gar means you have to pack another Xern check. Which is incredibly sad when you are already using the best one there is. Plus, Shadow Ball Gengar just makes you extremely depressed. Maybe B rank, maybe.
Sure
Hyperbole is so bad here. Fightceus is fair where it's at.
Sure
Fuck mega venu until it gets an analysis.
Scizor is a fair drop
while I'm proxy posting...
Bump Smeargle and Shuckle back up to A-. Dropping it to C+ cause it only lays webs is just full of lols, that's like saying Deo S should be C cause it just lays Spikes or Gar should be C rank cause it just traps. Webs is a diverse and powerful playstyle and in absolute need of one of those two mons to function. They are going to be your first consideration for that role. Shuckle / Smeargle are pretty interchangeable and ultimately depend on the webs build.
Drop Zong to B-, it's just a glue mon that you pick when the build's tight, imo.
Clefable up to B-, it's got a pretty solid niche at checking Geoxern and other CM Arc etc. It doesn't really need to switch into GeoXern, only check it once it boosts which is very easy to do. Got a movepool to support the team and your Fairy mon is gong to be Gengar bait regardless.
Scolipede to A-, it's such an amazing lead and it's so goddamn versatile and unpredictable. Kinda struggles with some Defog users but it's not that bad.
Zards up to at least B rank, please. Zard Y is just as viable as a Kyurem-W on it's own, more so when you consider that it can play off of the Zard X fake-out. Zard X is a monster that would easily be some A material stuff if it didn't have competition with Blaze. Despite that competition, Zard X still has its own niches that allow it to last longer, (roost) setup easier, (ex: zek strikes) and not get quite as fucked when the weather changes to rain. (ex: rain lando / ghosty)
-@Melee Mewtwo