Theorymon Sessions

zeb is a loser


  • Total voters
    213
Status
Not open for further replies.
What if Monferno got the ability Contrary?

I've always seen the Chimchar family as the one built for Contrary. Monferno is frail, not powerful enough and not that fast in the current NU metagame, making it not have an analysis at the moment because of how bad it is. However, it learns two great stats-reducing moves, that, coupled with Contrary, would make Monferno much better:

- Close Combat: It would rise its Defense and Special Defense and hit hard (maybe after boosting its Defenses, Slack Off becomes a good idea? Also, might Eviolite then be a good item for the monkey?)

- Overheat: It would boost its Special Attack to high levels while hitting really hard.

Now, one more point: What if Monferno got the ability Contrary AND learnt Hammer Arm and Superpower (and V-Create)?

Now we have two more amazing weapons for it.

- Hammer Arm boosts its Speed to a good level considering Monferno's natural decent Speed. After a Hammer Arm, it can begin punching holes in its opponent's teams using Close Combat, Overheat, or...

- Superpower: Now, a Bulk Up boost in a move with 120 base power and STAB is fearsome.

Even with Contrary, Monferno isn't neither powerful enough nor fast enough unless it gets a few boosts, and it would suffer 4MS Syndrome, because, to run coverage moves or Slack Off it has to drop some of its offensive boosting moves. But give it Dual Screen or Memento support, and it can ko whole teams.

What do you think?
 
Last edited:
This idea does sound really cool, but I don't think I'd use Shed Skin Serperior over the current SubCM set it uses. A physical set does already exist for Serperior, but it uses the same sort of strategy as the SubCM which is to set up a Sub, boost with Coil, hit with Grass STAB, and possibly gain an Overgrow boost after a few more Subs. The only difference between the Coil and CM set in their generally strategy is the Coil set's Dragon Tail which just phazes things out that break Serp's Sub. Shed Skin wouldn't really help Serp anymore with status as it already sets up fast Subs to avoid status anyway. I don't see Serp having any room for Rest on the Physical set either, so I really don't think it'd help much in the long run. Serp's physical movepool is a lot less useful than its Special one anyway. The SubCM set gets better coverage and even recovery with Giga Drain and Hidden Power Rock. Shed Skin definitely fits in flavor-wise, Garchomp, but I don't see it changing much for Serperior in the current meta.
Agree the special CM set is superior but the coil set with SS could be cool as well! ;)

What if Monferno got the ability Contrary?

I've always seen the Chimchar family as the one built for Contrary. Monferno is frail, not powerful enough and not that fast in the current NU metagame, making it not have an analysis at the moment because of how bad it is. However, it learns two great stats-reducing moves, that, coupled with Contrary, would make Monferno much better:

- Close Combat: It would rise its Defense and Special Defense and hit hard (maybe after boosting its Defenses, Slack Off becomes a good idea?)

- Overheat: It would boost its Special Attack to high levels while hitting really hard.

Now, one more point: What if Monfeno got the ability Contrary AND learnt Hammer Arm and Superpower?

Now we have two more amazing weapons for it.

- Hammer Arm boosts its Speed to a good level considering Monferno's natural decent Speed. After a Hammer Arm, it can begin punching holes in its opponent's teams using Close Combat, Overheat, or...

- Superpower: Now, a Bulk Up boost in a move with 120 base power and STAB is fearsome.

Even with Contrary, Monferno isn't neither powerful enough nor fast enough unless it gets a few boosts, and it would suffer 4MS Syndrome, because, to run coverage moves or Slack Off it has to drop some of its offensive boosting moves. But give it Dual Screen or Memento support, and it can ko whole teams.

What do you think?
Wow.Never thought of that!I think it sounds pretty goods,it might work in my opinion!Just because with SuperPower/Close Combat,Slack off,Hammer arm (can't see monferno using it but oh well) it could become a great tank!(Don't saying that because I am a monferno addict) :P
 
Well, I've thought of another possibility for a very unused Pokémon.

What if Bellossom learnt Quiver Dance?

If Lilligant learns it, why not Bellossom, a Pokémon that we've seen dancing many times?

Bellossom is a rather outclassed Pokémon in NU. Quiver Dance would improve it a lot, it would still be slow after a boost, but Bellossom is bulky enough to set up two or three Quiver Dances and attempt to sweep, and it also has Synthesis for recovery.

Thoughts?
 
One of the main problems with Bellossom is that, not unlike its bulky grass counterpart Serperior, the coverage it has to offer is quite lacking. It has to choose a hidden power to use alongside giga drain, so your best choices are, once again similar to serperior, hp fire or hp rock. Fire provides coverage against steels, bugs and other grass types, while rock lets you also hit bugs more effectively, as well as flying types. This last type is the primary reason that hp rock is better on serperior, bellossom, and any grass type that wants 2 move coverage with hidden power. If you compare not only the quantity, but the quality of flying types in comparison to steel types and bug types, you will notice a substantial difference. With the exceptions of Serperior, Exeggutor and Metang, there are no steels or grass types above Mid B on the viability rankings. However, there are 8 flying Pokemon from Top B to Top A. This shows that overall, they have much more impact, and therefore are more important targets.

despite the lack of coverage options, bellossom would definitely become a threat to consider when teambuilding. Even with a boost or two under its belt, the dancing plant is still slow, and able to be outsped by scarfers such as Jynx even when at +2.

overall, while bellossom would become more viable, and definitely a threat to watch out for, it would be in no way overpowering, as it has a tough time setting up on many of the tiers top threats.
 
What if Armaldo got U-Turn?

By this point, Armaldo sorta has celebrity status as an awful pokemon. While he does have a few positive traits, they tend to be mitigated by crippling weaknesses- he gets rapid spin, but every relevant ghost type in the tier can switch into him more or less without fear. He has a solid base 125 attack, as high as Sawk's, but a terrible base 45 speed which more or less guarantees that he's taking a hit before he can do anything. U-Turn, however, helps to turn every one of these downsides into an advantage.

The combination of Rapid Spin and U-Turn puts the opponent's ghost type in an unfortunate position. Failing to switch into a Rapid Spin clears the opponent's field of the hazards that you lost several turns or maybe even a pokemon trying to set up. Deciding to switch in against a U-Turn, however, gives your opponent a free opportunity to pursuit trap your ghost, leaving it unable to prevent Armaldo from spinning later in the match.

One also shouldn't understate the utility of a slow U-Turn. The recent fad of pairing mons like Jynx with slow volt-turners such as Eelektros or Musharna could only be helped by access to a slow and fairly powerful U-Turn- particularly one with a tendency to lure in mons that Jynx can punch right through (252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 342-404 (100.88 - 119.17%) -- guaranteed OHKO). If the opponent doesn't have a ghost type at all, a single Rapid Spin guarantees that a sweeper will come in unmolested by enemy attacks or entry hazards, either from a U-Turn or on a revenge kill.

What are your thoughts?
 
U-turn Armaldo would be a very interesting and welcomed addition to the current NU metagame for multiple reasons:

One of the most crippling factors about Armaldo is that he can do the equivalent of jack shit to every Ghost in NU, which isn't good when your primary role on most teams is to spin. While U-turn doesn't give Armaldo the ability to beat spinblockers per se, it does allow him to help in team in defeating these ghosts with a nice, slow and safe switch into a pursuit trapper, something that any and every team in NU likes to have. Being able to absorb a Will-O-Wisp from Misdreavus with Lum Berry, then U-turning directly into your Skuntank or Liepard is a great boon to Armaldo's overall usefulness.

U-turn also gives Armaldo in interesting niche in Rain (more so than before) as a fast U-turn, something that no Swift Swim abusers in the tier have access to (I think, not sure if Pelliper gets SS or now :s). While small, this niche is cool in that Armaldo is the only Pokemon in the meta who can set up Stealth Rocks, Rain Dance, and U-turn out, making it a very cool lead for Rain teams.

Overall, I think this would be a set people would use a lot:

Armaldo @ Lum Berry
Trait: Battle Armor / Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Rock Blast / Rapid Spin
- Rain Dance
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
Armaldo @ Lum Berry
Trait: Battle Armor / Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Rock Blast / Rapid Spin
- Rain Dance
But if you're not using Damp Rock you're missing out on some very valuable turns, and it's not like Armaldo can just keep coming in.

So anyway, what if Licklicky got Thick Fat?

Nowadays people prefer to use Audino because Audino has Regenerator while Lickilicky can't really do much with Own Tempo aside from checking Swagpard. Thick Fat would be an excellent ability for NU's resident pink blob as it allows him to tank some important stuff such as Jynx' Ice Beam and Charizard's Fire Blast, which is nice for choiced versions (non-choiced versions can still potentially destroy when using Focus Blast). Still, it'd give Licky some extra niche over Audino.

Oh and flavor-wise it makes perfect sense ofcourse, I mean, just look at the chubby bastard.
 

WhiteDMist

Path>Goal
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Armaldo @ Lum Berry
Trait: Battle Armor / Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Rock Blast / Rapid Spin
- Rain Dance
As far as I know, Armaldo doesn't learn Rain Dance. Even if it did, I would say that your set is trying to do way too much at once unless you give up Rapid Spin (in which case there are other Rain Dance users who learn Volt Switch/Baton Pass, which does practically the same thing).
 
Thick Fat Lickilicky would be really cool and would give us a decent answer for Charizard and Jynx. Obviously it would still very much fear Focus Blasts from the two of them, but at least it could comfortably switch into their STAB moves! I'd definitely use it over Own Tempo, but the issue of move legality would potentially arise even if it was given the ability; the reason why everyone uses Own Tempo instead of Cloud Nine despite being a shakier check to weather based teams is because of it's the only ability legal with Wish—plus fuck Liepard of course. Assuming it got Wish with Thick Fat, I'd be all for it. The ability on Lickilicky wouldn't break the metagame by any means, and it would actually help balance it just ever so slightly.
 
What if Steamroller had 95 BP instead of 65?

Steamroller isn't a good move as of now; it has poor distribution and poor power. But I think it is a cool move, if it improved like that...

Would it be a good option for Golem to use, or Golem would stick to SR, Stone Edge, EQ, Sucker Punch?

Would Scolipede run it over Megahorn? It has perfect accuracy and 30% flinch rate, so thanks to Scolipede great Speed, it can abuse of that effect.

Also, what if it had a better distribution? Which Pokémon do you think would benefit more from learning this move?

Also, I wanted to throw another question... You may take it as silly though...

What if Phanpy got Huge Power?

Would it become viable in the actual NU metagame? Phanpy is slow, and its special bulk is bad. But it can use Eviolite.

Also, if Phanpy learnt Rapid Spin, would Huge Power Phanpy be the best spinner in the tier?
 

scorpdestroyer

it's a skorupi egg
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 220+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 99-117 (30.65 - 36.22%) -- 56.03% chance to 3HKO

It isn't beating Misdreavus, so nope it will still suck at Rapid Spinning
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
You didn't put Phanpy in that calc...

Not sure on the effects of Steamroller given that moves such as Minimize are banned anyway... a stronger Bug-Type attack could be nice but pretty much only Golem learns it who doesn't learn Megahorn (I don't think Pinsir learns it...).
 
252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 220+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 99-117 (30.65 - 36.22%) -- 56.03% chance to 3HKO

It isn't beating Misdreavus, so nope it will still suck at Rapid Spinning
252+ Atk Huge Power Phanpy Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 220+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 148-175 (45.82 - 54.17%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Phanpy also has Knock Off to remove the Eviolite from Missy:

252+ Atk Huge Power Phanpy Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 220+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 42-50 (13 - 15.47%) -- possible 7HKO

And after losing it, it can no longer switch in on it safely because...

252+ Atk Huge Power Phanpy Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 220+ Def Misdreavus: 222-262 (68.73 - 81.11%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Knock Off + Head Smash can 2HKO Missy if it has taken some residual damage, so yeah, Misdreavus isn't safe.

Of course, after hitting Misdreavus with Knock Off, it's best to switch Phanpy out, and then, in another chance, send Phanpy again to spin or OHKO the incoming Misdreavus.

And about Steamroller, I listed the only two viable Pokémon that learn it, sadly, its distribution is horrible. It would be a great move to have in Pinsir, Choice Scarf set with Steamroller would become more viable.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top