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Ladder Tier Shift XY

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by eriados, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. eriados

    eriados

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    Shamelessly stolen & updated from PureQuestion ’s original OP

    Welcome to XY Tier Shift!

    This metagame is all built on a very simple concept: All pokemon below OU have all their base stats increased by 5 per tier below OU.

    • Pokemon in UU/BL get a boost of 5 to each stat.
    • Pokemon in RU/BL2 get a boost of 10 to each stat.
    • Pokemon in NU/BL3 get a boost of 15 to each stat.
    • Pokemon that were previously restricted to 1 HP are no longer restricted if they got a boost to base HP (in other words, Shedinja's boost is intentional)
    • A list of Pokemon by tier can be found here

    And that's basically how that works. It's easy to find some incredible examples, but let's just look at some interesting cases; I'm going to try to use some... infamous examples, to better illustrate my point.

    Even pokemon mostly regarded as jokes down in NU sound pretty intimidating with +15 to all stats:
    • Chatot may have that nasty SR weakness and lack of bulk, but it feels significantly scarier when it's backed by 106 base speed, and 107 base special attack.
    But we can get better still.
    • Imagine Smash Pass from a 70/99/120/129/90/67 Gorebyss! Hell, you might not even need to pass!
    But that's just NU; +15 to all stats is a crazy amount; let's see what's fun in RU:
    • Sharpedo. 130 base attack. 105 base special attack. 105 base speed and Speed Boost? Everything is gonna be hurting.
    • Hitmonlee. Great power and decent speed backed by strong coverage moves, with the buffed Knock Off and STAB priority, makes for a very threatening Fighting-type.
    Maybe defense is more your style, Alomomola, a pokemon that already sees some occasional use in OU, gets a boost to its already very bulky stats giving it a whopping 175 base HP and a solid 90 base defense!

    Or perhaps UU is more what you're looking for?
    • Hydreigon. 130/110 mixed attack stats? A great set of resistances and solid bulk? A cheeky 103 base speed? Eat your heart out, Garchomp.
    • Celebi, Jirachi and Victini all have their solid base 100 spreads boosted to a much nicer solid 105 spread, pushing them up a speed tier and adding to their respectable bulk.
    • Porygon-2 gets a nice boost to its already great defenses, up to 90/95/100, with a nice boost to its special attack.
    The possibilities go on and on from there; it's a very interesting metagame to play; one where top threats in OU are usurped by pokemon they previously outclassed, it turning out that all they needed was a little boost to their stats.


    This metagame follows the OU banlist and standard clauses. Thus, the list of banned Pokemon, abilities, items and moves are:

    Mega Evolutions will work like this:

    Last gen we saw Tier Shift develop as an even fiercer incarnation of the standard metagame’s weather wars, since abusers from lower tiers such as Sawsbuck, Victreebel, and Stoutland received massive stat boosts. Now, with weather abilities nerfed, former Ubers dropped down, and the introduction of Mega evolutions, how will the metagame develop? The only way you can find out is by playing! TS was undoubtedly one of the most popular Other Metagames last generation around and earned a “permanent” (read: more than one month) ladder due to its player base. With a ton of viable playstyles and even more viable Pokemon, what’s not to love about Tier Shift?
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2014
  2. Zewwok

    Zewwok

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    One of the best OM's out there, glad to see it coming back.
    Srixis likes this.
  3. Albacore

    Albacore Son of Arathorn
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    The first thing that came to my mind were the many powerful but slightly outclassed Pokemon currently in BL. Crawdant can actually outspeed Standard Bisharp Aegislash-style, with a +Speed Nature and max Speed, while increasing its wallbreaking power even further. Klefki can now set Screens more reliably, and a slight increase in Attack may power up its Play Rough somewhat. Haxorus now breaks the base 100 speed tier, which gives it a slight advantage over the likes of Charizard-X (notably, it speed ties with Scarf Garchomp at +1 which could be interesting). Salamence also reaches a better speed tier, and the Mixed Scarf set seems much more threatening. Tornadus-T is now able to outspeed Greninja, while Thundurus-T only barely outspeeds Pinsir. Zygarde hits 100 Speed, perfect for a Dragon Dancer. Diggersby's immense power gets a nice boost, and being able to outspeed base 80s is always nice.

    By the way, how are you going to handle Blissey's HP? Isn't 255 the absolute limit of any given stat for any Pokemon on the simulator?
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
    Aaron's Aron likes this.
  4. Delibird is Amazing

    Delibird is Amazing

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    haxorus is basically a much stronger garchomp that trades a ground type for mold breaker and dragon dance
  5. eriados

    eriados

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    There's 2 alternative, which aren't too different. We could redistribute the 5 base points from HP to all the other stats, so Blissey would get +6 to all stats except HP, or we could just ignore HP, and Blissey would get +5 to all stats except HP. Not a very big difference in practical terms.
  6. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Phantom of the Oprah
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    What a bad time for Pinsir to end up in OU. :(
    Some XY Pokes ready to wreck:
    -[​IMG] +10
    -[​IMG] +15 (88 vs 81 Attack, might help)
    -[​IMG] +15
    -[​IMG] +15
    -[​IMG] +15
    -[​IMG] +10 (is it enough tho?)
    -[​IMG] +15 (pick your poison)
  7. Albacore

    Albacore Son of Arathorn
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    Ooh, this looks really interesting. Gourgest-Small particularly. 114 Speed gives it one hell of a fast WoW, and 70/137/90 isn't half bad either.

    Another thing I've noticed is that Shuckle gets a pretty noticeable HP boost, from 20 to 35, which makes it an even more reliable Sticky Web setter. Hippowdon gets a nice boost in bulk, giving it really impressive 113/117/77 bulk. Mew, another Pokemon that was already very usable in OU, is even better too.
    Aaron's Aron and RyanKoopa like this.
  8. Peef Rimgar

    Peef Rimgar

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    A few things that look fucking incredible in this:

    [​IMG]
    Haxorus may only get +5 to each stat, but those +5 matter. With the boosts, he goes from an awkward 97 base speed to a great 102, allowing him to outspeed many common scarfers after a DD and even speed tie with ScarfChomp. Outrage spam is still stopped by fairies but this still looks a hell of a lot more threatening than normal.

    [​IMG]
    Dragalge gets some incredible stats after +15. 80/105/138 bulk is not to be laughed at. Hell he even gets a great 113 special attack to work with offensively. All in all this thing is a huge threat.

    [​IMG]
    Barbaracle is sp00ky. Base 120 attack and 130 Defense allow it to take hits easily and then just sweep a team. The speed boost helps him avoid getting outsped by a lot of common scarfers after shell smash. Huge threat.
  9. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Phantom of the Oprah
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    Shuckle moved up to RU, but +10 is still nice.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
  10. TheBurgerKing99

    TheBurgerKing99

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    Virizion is NU. That gives it stats of 106/105/87/105/144/123. This is a 670 bst. I can see it being one of the strongest threats in this metagame
  11. Delibird is Amazing

    Delibird is Amazing

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    virizion just rose to ru, but it still has some nice stats
  12. PokemonMasterDebater

    PokemonMasterDebater

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    With Jolteon falling to RU, and Manectric moving up to OU, Jolteon now outspeeds Mega Manectric. Not sure if that makes it better or not, but it's noteworthy.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2014
  13. TheBurgerKing99

    TheBurgerKing99

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    Oh, okay. It's stats are still amazing, in my opinion. 640 is huge
  14. AwesomeFennekin

    AwesomeFennekin Banned deucer.

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    Flygon will be a monster, as it now gets a more passable base 85 Special Attack, 105 Attack and Speed, and can take hits better with 85/85/85 Defenses.
  15. nightsitter

    nightsitter

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    A few things I noticed:

    -Ditto now has an HP stat of 63
    -Furfrou could be a little more threatening with 90/75/105 defenses and 117 speed
    -Marowak hits an attack stat of 634 right off the bat
    -Sableye, Kyurem, and Tornadus-I all get +10 boosts, making them very threatening
    -Dugtrio gains +10 to both attack and speed stats (now 90 and 130 respectively)
    -Exploud hits hard with Boomburst off of base 101 special attack
    -Golbat, Gligar, and Doublade are massive defensive threats with Eviolite
    -Avalugg with 110/199/61 defenses (lol)
    -Contrary Malamar could see some more usage now that it has a few stats above 100
    -NU Weather starters
    -Sigilyph could be a solid late-game cleaner
    -BEST POKEMON EVER Sceptile gets massive boosts to its already-solid stats. Could be a solid SD sweeper with Unburden
    RyanKoopa and Jaguar360 like this.
  16. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    I remember how ridiculous rain was last gen, and even though the nerf hurt its viability quite a bit this gen, I think it's still going to be an insanely good playstyle now that some of its best abusers are all reside in lower tiers, on top of the fact that Swift Swim is now legal again with Drizzle.

    Politoed itself is NU this generation, which means that is gets a HUGE stat buff. I mean 105/90/90/105/115/85 stats are amazing compared to what is was, and now it no longer looks like Politoed will be considered complete dead weight on rain teams. That outstanding bulk, great special attack stat, and workable Speed could potentially make its Choice Specs set viable again, regardless of the lesser rain turns. However, a standard specially defensive set would be good enough and it would be much easier to Toed to keep the rain up. We also can't forget some of rain's finest with their new and improved stats:

    [​IMG] 80/100/100/100/100/90: Its stats were never bad, but now it has stats similar to Celebi, Jirachi, and Shaymin. Faster, bulkier, and slightly more power, Kingdra is better than it ever was before. Time to grab my spectacles.

    [​IMG] 70/125/115/75/80/90: Kabutops got a pretty significant buff thanks to its RU status. Its Attack stat is now on par with most Pokemon commonly found in the OU metagame, and its decent Speed stat keeps it from being a complete liability when rain turns have run out. Kabutops is already an incredible Pokemon on OU rain teams, so I can't even imagine how terrifying it is after these significant buffs.

    [​IMG] 85/75/140/130/85/70: Holy fuck Omastar is going to be a huge threat. It finally has a usable Speed stat that keeps it from being outsped by every Choice Scarf user in the rain or after a Shell Smash, which is fantastic. It also has an incredible amount of physical bulk, which allows it to set up on Talonflame, Pinsir, and Mega Charizard X to an extent. Its monstrous Special Attack stat will allow it to spam powerful as hell Hydro Pumps, and after a Shell Smash I doubt anything could avoid being 2HKOed by it without a ton of bulk. I definitely see Omastar being a staple on rain teams, just because of how powerful and durable it is. Wouldn't be surprised to see Omastar and Kabutops on the same team despite the massive Grass-type weakness; they're both just so powerful.

    [​IMG] 95/85/85/105/115/85: Ludicolo struggled to stand out this generation on OU rain teams simply because it just wasn't powerful enough to pull its weight, despite its useful typing and great coverage. Now its back to reclaim its place with a very solid Special Attack stat and outstanding bulk. I mean these stats basically scream bulky attacker, however I still see it utilizing the Life Orb item in order to increase its overall damage output.

    [​IMG] 120/110/90/100/90/89: Damn Seismitoad almost looks like a legendary after its stat buff. It has an insane amount bulk, blistering Speed in rain, and fantastic mixed attacking stats, allowing it to hit hard on both sides of the spectrum. Hell I'm almost tempted to try a defensive Toad even outside of rain, because those stats are just so fantastic. With its useful typing and immunity to the Electric-type, I see Seismitoad being a really good choice for rain teams.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] 84/105/85/115/95/126 or 89/125/80/135/80/121 Everyone's favorite Hurricane spammer is back with a new and improved stat spread. Although only 5 points may not seem like too much of a difference, what's most notable is its Speed stat, which now puts it above Greninja. On top of that, its slightly improved special bulk only makes the AV set that much more dangerous, and now its Knock Offs, U-turns, and Hurricanes will be dealing more damage as well.

    On the other hand, its regular form is now no longer completely overshadowed by its Therian form. Its Speed stat is only marginally lower (although it misses out on Greninja) but its attacking stats went from being above average to absolutely terrifying. A mixed set with Hurricane, Superpower, and Knock Off makes it even harder to switch into, and with its Prankster ability, it's a great way to keep rain up in desperate times. Overall, I think both forms will be viable, and it all depends on whether or not you want Tornadus to function as more of a pivot, or a wallbreaker. Hell, I can even see both of them being good outside of rain.

    Uggg I'm so fucking psyched for this tier. There's probably more abusers that I missed such as a buffed Manaphy, Seismitoad, and a faster Thundurus-T, but it just goes to show that rain is definitely still going to leave a huge impact on this tier. As soon as I get home from vaca 'm gonna play the shit out of it. In the meantime, I might as well start building some teams.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
    Katzali, Karxrida, TRC and 7 others like this.
  17. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    Yeah, I'm also psyched about TS this gen, considering how fun it was last gen. Gary's post makes me wish that Politoed, rather than Drizzle, was classified as BL, though. Maybe we could just ban Drizzle if it gets too out of hand? IDK.

    Also, I have a random idea: Maybe NU Pokes below the 3.41% usage threshold could get a +20 boost to each stat? Even though PU isn't an official tier, it could give some of the game's truly awful Pokes a chance to shine.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
  18. Arhops

    Arhops
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    [​IMG]
    Politoed:

    Current Tiering Status - NU
    Drizzle Status - BL

    Is Politoed in general +15
    Or +15 without Drizzle and +5 with it?

    Does it just work the same as Megas?​
  19. Peef Rimgar

    Peef Rimgar

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    Sun looks really interesting right now, since now it has a decent setter that doesn't take up a mega slot and can hold a Heat Rock. Which means you can use......

    [​IMG]MEGA HOUNDOOM BITCHES! [​IMG]
    With 145 SpA and 120 Speed boosted by Solar Power, Mega Houndoom can tear up unprepared teams. Nasty Plot can be used to further it's offensive potential, but isnt needed because of the solar power boost. Hell it even gets a usable 96 attack to get some easy priority kills with sucker punch.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2014
  20. Throbulator36

    Throbulator36

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    Altaria is a pokemon I've wanted to use here since I learned of OM's. Also is there a chance PU pokemon will get extra boosts?
  21. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Phantom of the Oprah
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    I sincerely doubt it since PU is not an official tier.
  22. Throbulator36

    Throbulator36

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    I can still hope.
  23. aesf

    aesf

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    List of nu stuff that sound fun:
    Rhydon (takes 41.6% MAX from kyurem-b's banded adamant outrage)
    Archeops (155 base attack head smash with 125 base speed lol)
    Slaking (sure it kills momentum, but now almost nobody can revenge kill it)
    Marowak (going up to 55 speed can finally give it opportunities to sweep with smash pass unlike before)
    Pikachu (somewhat fast now. yey. still sucks though)
    Ursaring (quick feet SD set no longer gets outsped by every nonscarfer)

    Been waiting a long time for this tier, glad to see it's happening!
  24. eriados

    eriados

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    Politoed gets a +15 boost to all stats, because it is NU. I covered Mega Evolutions in the OP.

    If something is overpowering, I don't see a reason why banning could not be an option, even though that was not pursued last gen. I don't want to mess around with shifting Pokemon subjectively based on other variables.

    This could be a possibility for PU, given how large NU is. First I'd like to see what the metagame is like right now, and see what whoever is coding the tier thinks. I know Snaquaza was thinking of working on something.
  25. Mczatar

    Mczatar

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    Some ideas for better uses:

    [​IMG]
    Mega Banette- 175 attack. Shadow sneak. Prankster. I thonk we can see a lot more use from this mega in this meta.


    [​IMG]
    Kyurem- 140 in both attacks, 105 speed. Very nice all attacker :D

    [​IMG]

    Primeape- 120 attack, 110 speed.

    [​IMG]
    Sceptile- 120 sp. attack, 135 speed.


    These are just some exampels of nice new stats on nice pokemon with nice moves ;D

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