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Togekiss [QC 3/3][GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by FastFlygon, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. FastFlygon

    FastFlygon

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    QC [3/3]
    Skeleton (open)
    [pimg]473[/pimg]

    Togekiss

    [Overview]
    • Considered to be one of the most rage-inducing Pokemon in the game, potentially even moreso than Jirachi, as Togekiss can be harder to kill.
    • Base 120 Special Attack and a movepool that supports it lets Togekiss take on a multitude of threats and beat them down.
    • 85 / 95 / 115 defenses and access to Roost, Wish, Heal Bell, and Protect makes Togekiss one tough cookie to break.
    • Two solid abilities in Hustle and Serene Grace.
    • Held back only by its middling Speed, weakness to Stealth Rock, and weakness to common offensive types.
    • Extremely versataile.

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Air Slash
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Heal Bell / Thunder Wave
    move 4: Nasty Plot
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Serene Grace
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • One of the biggest piss-offs in the Underused metagame.
    • Air Slash, especially in conjunction with Serene Grace, is what makes Togekiss such a piss-off. It's solid STAB with a 60% chance for Flinch (factoring Serene Grace), hitting everything in the tier for neutral or super-effective damage, bar the far-and-few-between Electric-, Rock-, or Steel-type Pokemon found in Underused.
    • Roost keeps Togekiss' HP at healthy levels, making Togekiss even harder to kill. However, due to it's sub-par typing, Togekiss may find itself using Roost often if it isn't Flinch-haxing its opponent to death.
    • Heal Bell prevents status, Burn and Toxic most importantly, from eating away at Togekiss' and its teammates' health. However, Thunder Wave may be used instead of Heal Bell, slowing all opponents, bar Ground-type Pokemon, completing the ParaFlinch strategy that Jirachi abuses so well in Overused.
    • Nasty Plot allows Togekiss to double its already high Special Attack, allowing Togekiss to easily bypass its common counters, Snorlax, Umbreon, and Porygon2.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • The given EV spread allows Togekiss to switch-in on many weaker physical attacks or attackers, such as Crobat and Hitmontop, and quickly gain the upper hand by abusing its ability, Serene Grace.
    • If you so desire, 100 Speed EVs can be used in order to outspeed Defensive Roserade and Modest Empoleon. However, Togekiss can beat them one-on-one, so it isn't necessary.
    • Togekiss is adept at Wishpassing too, so using Wish and Protect over Roost and Nasty Plot is always an option. However, Umbreon is already a dedicated Wishpasser and has better typing and walling capabilities, and should be used instead if your aim is to Wishpass.
    • Aura Sphere is a solid coverage move that Togekiss can run over Heal Bell or Thunder Wave to help it beat Rhyperior and Empoleon, two common switch-ins to Togekiss.
    • Because of the amount of switches Togekiss can force between Paralysis and Flinch, entry hazard support from Rhyperior, Swampert, or Roserade are appreciated, weakening the opponent every time it switches in.
    • Spinners, such as Blastoise or Hitmontop, make for good teammates, as Togekiss loathes Stealth Rock and wants it off the field before coming in.
    • Pokemon capable of switching into and beating Zapdos, Raikou, and Rotom-H are also great teammates for Togekiss, as Electric-types will beat Togekiss every time.

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Air Slash
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Heal Bell / Thunder Wave
    move 4: Nasty Plot
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Serene Grace
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Air Slash is Togekiss' reliable STAB, bringing a 60% chance for a flinch to the table, thanks to Serene Grace. Air Slash has solid neutral coverage in the Underused metagame, only losing out against the handful of Rock-, Steel-, and Electric-type Pokemon in the tier.
    • Even despite its weakness to common offensive types and Stealth Rock, Togekiss is more than capable of keeping its HP at high levels thanks to Roost, which heals 50% of Togekiss' HP at once.
    • Heal Bell is also capable of keeping Togekiss, as well as its teammates, healthy from status, such as Burn or Paralysis. However, Thunder Wave may be used over Heal Bell to enable Togekiss the classic ParaFlinch strategy, making it difficult for the opponent to find room to attack unless it happens to be a Ground-type.
    • Nasty Plot turns Togekiss into a very powerful tank, doubling its already solid Special Attack stat, leaving very few Pokemon safe from its wrath, allowing Togekiss to bypass things such as Snorlax, Umbreon, and Porygon2,

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • The given EV spread allows Togekiss to surprise and tank many of the weaker Special Attackers in the tier, such as Virizion and Nidoqueen, and break through opponents with Thunder Wave and Air Slash.
    • 100 Speed EVs can be implemented in order to outspeed specific threats, specifically Defensive Roserade and Modest Empoleon. However, Togekiss can beat them one-on-one, so it isn't necessary.
    • Togekiss is adept at Wishpassing too thanks to its diverse movepool and solid HP stat, so using Wish and Protect over Roost and Nasty Plot can be considered. However, Umbreon excels as a dedicated Wishpasser thanks to its better typing and walling capabilities, and should be used over Togekiss if your aim is to Wishpass.
    • Aura Sphere is a solid coverage move, creating exceptional coverage alongside Air Slash, that Togekiss can run over Heal Bell or Thunder Wave to help it beat problematic Pokemon, such as Rhyperior and Empoleon, whom happen to be common switch-ins to Togekiss.
    • Because of the bizzare amount of switches Togekiss tends to force between Paralysis and Flinch, entry hazard support from Rhyperior, Bronzong, or Roserade are appreciated, weakening the opponent even further every time it switches in.
    • Spinners, such as Blastoise or Hitmontop, make for good teammates, as Togekiss loathes Stealth Rock and wants it off the field before coming in. Xatu can also be used instead, as it can potentially keep hazards off the field permanently thanks to Magic Bounce.
    • Pokemon capable of switching into and beating Zapdos, Raikou, and Rotom-H, such as Snorlax, Rhyperior, or Lanturn, are also great teammates for Togekiss, as Electric-types will beat Togekiss every time.

    [Other Options]
    • Togekiss can utilize a more offensive set with Nasty Plot, air Slash, Fire Blast, and Aura Sphere. however, due to the offensive nature of the Underused tier, Togekiss is outclassed by other Special Attackers who have better typing and more Speed.
    • Hustlekiss, Togekiss' signature Physical set, can also be used. However, due to its reliance on Hustle, making it very inaccurate, and stiff competition from threats such as Swords Dance Heracross and Life Orb Darmanitan - two Pokemon that can hit just as hard, it is not recommended.
    • Choice Scarf or Choice Specs are usable items on Togekiss, with movesets similar to an offensive Nasty Plot set, however, other Pokemon such as Kingdra and Raikou, make for better users of those items, as they don't fear bouncing in and out of a match as much thanks to their typing and a lack of a Stealth Rock weakness.
    • Fire Blast, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Grass Knot can be used to nab exclusive problem Pokemon if your team can't deal with certain threats.

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Stealth Rock.
    • Electric-types, such as Raikou, Zapdos, and Rotom-H, resist Air Slash and can hit Togekiss back hard with Thunderbolt or Volt Switch.
    • Rhyperior takes infantismal damage from anything not named Aura Sphere , is immune to Thunder Wave, and can beat Togekiss down with Rock Blast or Stone Edge.
    • Snorlax and Umbreon carry a vast amount of special bulk that will make it hard for Togekiss to break through, however, the former can be Flinched to death, while the latter has Inner Focus, preventing that from happening.
    • Faster threats, such as Weavile, Nidoking, or Mienshao all pose a threat to Togekiss, as super effective coverage moves or powerful STAB moves will leave large dents in Togekiss' health.
    • Faster Choice Scarf users, such as Raikou, Zapdos, or Flygon, can beat out Togekiss' Choice Scarf set using powerful STAB and coverage moves.


    [pimg]473[/pimg]

    Togekiss

    [Overview]

    <p>Any Pokemon that wields a 60% chance to flinch is bound to be annoying, and Togekiss is no exception. With a meaty base 120 Special Attack, two solid abilities, and a wide offensive movepool, Togekiss is a very able offensive Pokemon, thanks in particular to Nasty Plot, one of the best boosting moves in the game. It's no slouch defensively either, with 85 / 95 / 115 defenses and a decent defensive typing giving it impressive mixed bulk. These factors are complemented by a great defensive movepool, with access to Wish, Roost, and Heal Bell.</p>

    <p>However, a nasty weakness to the omnipresent Stealth Rock severely hampers its defensive potential. Weaknesses to common Ice- and Electric-type moves don't do it any favors either, especially because Togekiss is slower than most users of these moves. Nevertheless, incredible versatility, a phenomenal movepool, and balanced stats combine to make it one of the most threatening Pokemon in the UU tier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Air Slash
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Heal Bell / Thunder Wave
    move 4: Nasty Plot
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Serene Grace
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>It might seem strange to advocate a physically defensive set on a Pokemon with special bulk as excellent as Togekiss's, but with two of its three weaknesses usually seen as special attacks, and a STAB Air Slash to maul UU's common Fighting-type Pokemon, it fulfills this role far better than its base stats might suggest. Togekiss's STAB Air Slash has great coverage in UU, and can even break through some resists. Roost allows Togekiss to heal itself of passive damage, particularly Stealth Rock, and gives it the longevity needed to handle a range of weak physical attackers such as Crobat and Hitmontop. Though uninvested, Togekiss still retains great special bulk, and with Heal Bell it has no trouble switching into Scald from bulky Water-types without fearing a burn. However, without investment in its Special Defense, it must be wary of the Ice Beam these Pokemon sometimes carry.</p>

    <p>Nasty Plot is the most dangerous part of this set. It transforms Togekiss from a mediocre tank into a devastating offensive threat, doubling its Special Attack after a single use. Common special walls such as Snorlax and Umbreon are quickly worn down by repeated Air Slashes, with the chance to flinch often preventing them from healing at a crucial moment. Heal Bell is the primary option in the third moveslot, allowing Togekiss to cure it and its team of status and become an excellent supporter. In particular, burns and Toxic poison quickly wear Togekiss down, so the ability to remove them makes it a much better check to Pokemon such as Toxic Hitmontop. The ability to remove paralysis is useful too, because the speed drop prevents Togekiss from flinching most opponents. Thunder Wave is a strong alternative that trades longevity and team support for instant offense; a paralyzed Pokemon hit by Togekiss's Air Slash only moves 30% of the time. Thunder Wave can still support your team, too, and is particularly appreciated by Pokemon such as Druddigon who excel when nothing can outspeed them. Unfortunately, Thunder Wave is useless against Ground-types, but many of these are reluctant to switch into Togekiss for fear of taking a possibly boosted Air Slash. Only Togekiss's nemesis, Rhyperior, fears neither.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread gives Togekiss the bulk to switch in and check a plethora of weaker physical attackers while retaining enough speed to beat uninvested base 85 Pokemon such as Gligar and Suicune. It is also quick enough to outrun most Nidoqueen. If you wish to use a faster spread, 96 EVs is a good benchmark, outrunning minimum Speed Roserade, Modest Empoleon, and -1 Victini. However, this is not recommended, because Togekiss will beat Roserade even without outrunning it and will struggle to defeat offensive variants of Empoleon even if it is faster thanks to Empoleon's Steel typing. 248 HP EVs are used to keep Togekiss's HP stat odd instead of even, which minimizes damage from Stealth Rock. Teams looking for Wish support may choose to use Wish and Protect over Roost and Nasty Plot, but this is not recommended because Umbreon is much better at passing Wishes, and the loss of Nasty Plot significantly impedes Togekiss's ability to break through bulkier Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Togekiss is excellent at forcing switches, so it appreciates entry hazard support from the likes of Rhyperior, Qwilfish, and Roserade. Rhyperior is a particularly good partner because it is able to switch into and defeat the Electric-types which threaten Togekiss. Speaking of Electric-types, a solid answer to them is a must, because they will almost always have no trouble defeating Togekiss. Swampert, Snorlax, and Rhyperior are good answers to most Electric-types in the tier. Because of its hatred of Stealth Rock, Togekiss adores Rapid Spin support from the like of Hitmontop and Blastoise. Hitmontop is a particularly good partner because it can switch into and defeat Rock-type Pokemon looking to exploit Togekiss's weakness. With Intimidate, the pair can form a solid walling combination.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Air Slash
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Heal Bell / Thunder Wave
    move 4: Nasty Plot
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Serene Grace
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes a more conventional approach, focusing on Togekiss's fantastic base 115 Special Defense. Once again, Air Slash is a reliable STAB, with its handy 60% flinch chance allowing Togekiss to beat many things it would otherwise struggle with. Roost mitigates damage suffered from Stealth Rock, hail, and other passive sources and does a good job of keeping Togekiss healthy despite its common weaknesses. This set appreciates Heal Bell a lot as it may frequently be called on to switch into Scald from bulky Water-type Pokemon; the resulting burns hamper its longevity and the ability to remove them on a whim is very useful. However, Thunder Wave is still a solid choice, allowing Togekiss to paralyze and flinch faster special attackers that it might otherwise struggle with.</p>

    <p>Nasty Plot makes Togekiss a fearsome tank, doubling its Special Attack in a single turn. It serves as a vital part of Togekiss's flinching strategy by making sure every flinch counts and allows it to power through walls it would otherwise struggle with. For example, without Nasty Plot, Umbreon would effortlessly wall Togekiss, but with it, Togekiss can boost to +6 against Umbreon and nonchalantly 2HKO it with Air Slash.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Due to its natural special bulk, Togekiss need not avoid strong attackers as much and is better suited to taking weak super effective moves. A Calm nature is chosen to bolster the Special Defense investment. 44 Speed EVs are used to outrun uninvested base 85s and consequently almost all defensive Pokemon; however, the option to invest 96 EVs and outrun minimum Speed Roserade, Modest Empoleon, and -1 Victini is available. Though, this set takes on Roserade extremely well, so this is not advised.</p>

    <p>As Togekiss loathes Stealth Rock, it enjoys being partnered with a Rapid Spin user such as Blastoise or Hitmontop. Xatu is another decent partner, reflecting back any hazards used while it is on the field. However, none of these Pokemon have great defensive synergy with this Togekiss variant, so another partner is advised. Swampert is a good choice, being able to tank a variety of physical hits and take on the Electric-types that plague Togekiss. It can also set up Stealth Rock to capitalize on the switches Togekiss forces. Other Electric-type counters or checks such as Snorlax and Rhyperior are also good choices, as Togekiss will lose to every UU Electric-type even with the additional Special Defense.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Due to its incredible versatility, Togekiss has a myriad of options not mentioned above. A more offensive Nasty Plot set is usable, with Air Slash, Fire Blast, and Aura Sphere; however, Togekiss is rather slow and suffers from the mediocre Base Power of Air Slash when using a more offensive set because any counter it fails to flinch will likely cripple or KO it thanks to the lack of defensive investment. Additionally, giving up Roost makes Togekiss much more vulnerable to passive damage from Stealth Rock and hail. Togekiss can also make use of Hustle in conjunction with Work Up and ExtremeSpeed to run a physical set; however, this is outclassed by other physical attackers such as Darmanitan, Heracross, and Mienshao when it is not using ExtremeSpeed and suffers badly from Hustle's accuracy-lowering drawback. This turns the usual frustration when facing Togekiss on its head by forcing it to miss 20% of the time.</p>

    <p>Togekiss can also use either a Choice Scarf or Choice Specs effectively. The former seems particularly enticing because it allows Togekiss to flinch a wider range of Pokemon, but Togekiss is too slow to outrun any other notable Choice Scarf users and too weak without a boost to KO much. It does learn Trick, however, which is useful for crippling unsuspecting walls. No matter its Choice item, the lack of Roost will always trouble Togekiss, who will only be able to switch into Stealth Rock four times without the ability to heal itself.</p>

    <p>Togekiss's defensive sets can also use a move from its wide offensive movepool, such as Psychic, Aura Sphere, Grass Knot, Fire Blast, or Shadow Ball, to hit problematic Pokemon. However, these are all inferior to the listed options if your team does not have particular trouble with the threat you choose to hit. Togekiss can also use Hyper Voice as a second STAB move, but this does not offer any meaningful coverage alongside Air Slash, so it should generally be avoided. Although Thunder Wave is the primary option for spreading paralysis, Body Slam can also be used, sporting a 60% chance to paralyze thanks to Serene Grace and hitting Ground-types immune to Thunder Wave. However, it does pitiful damage even with STAB, and the reliability of Thunder Wave is generally preferred.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Without a doubt, Stealth Rock is Togekiss's most hated foe. It strips the fairy-bird of 25% of its health every time it switches in, quickly wearing it down. Electric-type Pokemon such as Raikou and Zapdos are also excellent answers, easily absorbing Air Slash due to their resistance and hitting Togekiss hard with a STAB Thunderbolt or Volt Switch. As these Pokemon are naturally faster than Togekiss, it cannot flinch them either. However, neither of these will appreciate being paralyzed. Rhyperior is also a very good counter: it is immune to Thunder Wave and takes pitiful damage from even boosted Air Slash while hitting back with super effective STAB Rock-type moves. It must watch out for Aura Sphere and Grass Knot, though. Snorlax is also a pretty good answer, wearing Togekiss down with Body Slam or simply KOing it with Choice Band-boosted Return; however, it can be beaten with repeated flinches.</p>

    <p>If you don't carry one of these Pokemon, your best bet is simply to hit it hard and fast. Togekiss has three common weaknesses and few resistances to speak of, so Pokemon such as Choice Band Flygon and Life Orb Darmanitan can give it a lot of trouble. Weavile can easily smash Togekiss with a STAB Ice Punch; similarly, Nidoking's Life Orb, Sheer Force-boosted Ice Beam will quickly clip Togekiss's wings. Mienshao, Heracross, and Victini can also plow right through it; really, any faster physical attacker gives Togekiss a lot of trouble. Hard hitters on the special side have more trouble, but can usually still get the job done if they are strong enough.</p>
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2013
  2. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    I will not approve a choice scarf set for togekiss, a base 75 BP attack as your primary move is really stupid on a scarfer in such a bulky metagame, no matter how much you're going to try and flinch something. Also base 80 speed is mediocre in a metagame where base 85 is the speed to beat.

    Rest of this looks fine.
  3. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    Why was offensive Nasty Plot removed? It is one of Togekiss's most effective sets, even if it is rather difficult to fit on teams.
  4. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    Will do. Less typing for me~

    Ask RT or Kokoloko. I have a feeling it had something to do with being outclassed by most other Special Attackers and bad typing, resulting in being too easy to kill.
  5. Pkn range6

    Pkn range6

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    I think specs set is really good that it might even possibly be worth a set but should atleast be mentioned in OO because it deals with common Pokemon that set up hazards such as Bronzong, Rhyperior, Gligar, Roserade and Swampert. OHKOing them or 2HKOing them atleast. It can possibly flinch hax slower walls as well such as Snorlax and Umbreon one of UU best special walls. It really enjoys paralysis support because it can easily para flinch hax Pokemon to death. If you do consider adding it in I would suggest this set.

    Togekiss @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 140 Spd / 4 SDef / 112 HP
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Air Slash
    - Tri Attack / Aura Sphere
    - Grass Knot
    - Fire Blast

    It allows Togekiss to max out it's special attack out speed standard Xatu and defensive Roserade and rest into bulk. Air Slash is obvious for flinching your opponent. Tri Attack is a alternative stab and hits Zapdos the hardest with. Grass Knot OHKOs the pokemon I mentioned. Fire Blast makes it not walled by steel pokemon. Aura Sphere can be used to hit Umbreon, Snorlax harder and steels more accurately.

    Calcs (open)
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Togekiss (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 252HP/4SpDef Levitate Bronzong (Neutral): 105% - 124% (358 - 422 HP). Guaranteed OHKO
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Togekiss (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Registeel (+SpDef): 60% - 71% (220 - 260 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Togekiss (+SAtk) Grass Knot vs 240HP/0SpDef Leftovers Swampert (+SpDef): 135% - 159% (544 - 640 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Togekiss (+SAtk) Grass Knot vs 252HP/4SpDef Leftovers +1 Suicune (Neutral): 50% - 58% (202 - 238 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Togekiss (+SAtk) Grass Knot vs 248HP/244SpDef Leftovers Solid Rock Rhyperior (Neutral): 160% - 189% (696 - 819 HP). Guaranteed OHKO
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Togekiss (+SAtk) Grass Knot vs 252HP/56SpDef Leftovers Marvel Scale Milotic (+SpDef): 61% - 73% (244 - 288 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Togekiss (+SAtk) Air Slash vs 252HP/4SpDef Eviolite Gligar (Neutral): 53% - 63% (180 - 213 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Togekiss (+SAtk) Air Slash vs 248HP/240SpDef Leftovers Xatu (+SpDef): 52% - 61% (174 - 205 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Togekiss (+SAtk) Air Slash vs 252HP/240SpDef Leftovers Roserade (+SpDef): 83% - 98% (270 - 318 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Togekiss (+SAtk) Tri Attack vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Raikou (Neutral): 63% - 74% (204 - 240 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Choice Specs Togekiss (+SAtk) Tri Attack vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Zapdos (Neutral): 68% - 81% (222 - 262 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Hope those calcs convince you. Many people think Togekiss is more of a tank instead of an all out attacker so this set catches people off guard.
  6. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    Choice Specs is set to be an OO mention, as much like ONP Togekiss, its outclassed by other Specs users, such as Kingdra or Raikou, whose STAB alone let them tear the metagame in two.

    On that note, still waiting for QC to give me some alternate EV spreads (or just tell me there aren't any) and confirm that I'm not missing any sets. Besides that, writing this up shouldn't take me much longer.
  7. Nas

    Nas I bring the drama
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    For both the Physically Defensive and Specially Defensive sets, Wish and Protect should just be mentioned in AC, not slashed. For Wishpassing, there's no reason why you wouldn't just use Umbreon, who can run an almost identical set with better typing and walling capabilities. Aura Sphere is a solid coverage move that Kiss can run over Heal Bell/Thunder Wave to help it beat Rhyperior and Empoleon, so it should probably get a small mention. Also note that you can run enough Speed to outpace Xatu and Specially Defensive Roserade, but both are beaten by Kiss anyway so there's little point of doing so. Remove Hustlekiss, I tested it and it is far too gimmicky and inconsistent. Mention it in Other Options but that's it.
  8. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    Choice Scarf Togekiss is still plenty viable. It's not something you can just plop on a team, but it's surprisingly strong and can win matches with just one flinch.
  9. Camisado

    Camisado

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    I don't understand why the Hustle set would run Air Slash over a perfect accuracy, Hustle-boosted Aerial Ace.
  10. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    What RT said.
  11. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    I'll implement these and write this fucker up then.
  12. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    hey it'd be nice to have different comments for different sets js
  13. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    Bumping to say I've made the comments different. QC, have at!
  14. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    I need more explanation as to how the two presented sets play differently in SC. Also the option of 100 Spe actually beats max Modest Empoleon (and by extension defensive Roserade, but not Xatu), if I'm recalling correctly--you should double check that; we can't have erroneous info gong on-site.

    You're also going to need to expand that OO section a lot. Considering the fact that most of the sets presented in OO atm are actually pretty viable (the only reason I don't want an actual set for them is because the presented two are better 95%+ of the time). Go into detail there, please.

    Looking good though.
  15. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    100 Spe EVs reaches 221, while 0 Spe Xatu is 226, so yea, you can either mention 124 Spe EVs to nail Xatu, or remain at 96 Spe EVs for Modest Empoleon.

    Edit: Why isn't there an explanation on the EV spreads in AC? Iirc 216 Def EVs allowed you to survive two Stone Edges from Jolly Scarf Hera w/o SR, while 44 Spe EVs made you faster than 0 Spe base 85's such as defensive Suicune/Gligar.
  16. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    Alright, I'll expand on those then.

    I'll throw that information in there then. Thanks for noticing that!
  17. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    Can we please include a Scarf set? It's actually good. Like, really, it is actually good. I can write it up if you want.
  18. Mazz

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    I'm capable of writing it up, but I'd like to see what you had in mind exactly for a Scarf set. Giving QC a chance to look at it would maybe convince them to pass one.
  19. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    Here's what I've been using.

    Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Air Slash
    - Aura Sphere
    - Fire Blast / Grass Knot
    - Trick / Baton Pass

    It's a pretty simple set. It's not something you can use as your team's only Scarfer unless you have stuff to handle other fast Scarfers and DD Kingdra, but it is a very viable set in its own right because it requires no setup to start flinching things.

    Fire Blast or Grass Knot basically depends on if you are more scared of Rhyperior or Bronzong. Fire Blast is also your only real option against Zapdos.

    Trick is almost always better in the last slot, but Baton Pass works as a pseudo U-Turn if you need it. It's nice to be able to pivot your Zapdos counter straight in and force it to eat tons of Stealth Rock damage.
  20. Mazz

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    Alright, so the verdict is in from QC. Choice Scarf Togekiss is not to be approved. Choice Scarf, even with Trick, really hinders Togekiss from doing what it's supposed to in the UU metagame. The Stealth Rock weakness and lack of Roost cripples Togekiss to a point where its beyond difficult to keep alive during a match. The other Scarf users in the tier are faster, getting the jump on other fast threats, which Togekiss simply cannot do. Sorry Cim.

    With that said, let's continue on with the QC process, shall we?
  21. DestinyUnknown

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    aren't the sets descriptions exactly the same for both or is it just me?

    ps:
    Togekiss doesn't beat Modest Empoleon unless it can flinch it to death so that isn't true.
  22. exotic

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    Just a nitpick, but what does togekiss outspeed with those 44 evs?
  23. Ernesto

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    I thought he'd already put that info considering I told him to three weeks ago, lol. 44 EVs are to outspeed base 85's with 0 Spe EVs, basically Suicune and Gligar.

    Also, the comment about the EV spread belongs in AC, not SC, afaict.
  24. Mazz

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    At one point, they were word for word, and what you see now is the end result of a bit of work. In a sense, they're the same sets but with different switch-ins, kokoloko and RT. just saw the need to separate them into two sets. This has been brought up on #genvuu before.

    And provided Togekiss can get a Thunder Wave in on Empoleon before the Roar or Substitute, Serene Grace basically enables Togekiss to beat Empoleon, albeit it'll take its sweet ass time to do so if it can't manage a Nasty Plot beforehand.
  25. kokoloko

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    QC Approved 1/3

    This really needs to get on-site ASAP...

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