Pokémon Toxapex

[StickyRobot]

Man some people's logic here is laughable.

Here Gamefreak gives us a Pokemon with Registeel-level defenses, Recover, Regeneration, good typing, and immunity to poison but with attacking stats similar to Rattata. Better try to run an offensive set and focus on damage!

 

[peaswar]

Id run liquidation
Because scald is useless on toxapex,
Not only is it weak in special attacking, if you are burning your oponents, whats the point of toxic. Also, lowering their defences would be able to deal more damage and is good on a slow pokemon, so you can essentially stop their stat boosts with haze, then use liquidation to reduce their defences

So Toxapex can stall like nobody's business. It outstalled a Mega-Sab and a Chansey.

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7pokebankou-489726404

I've been using it on my Rain Team
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Regenerator
Bold 252HP/252Def/4Spd

Scald
Recover
Haze
Toxic

Haze is maybe the best part of the set. Fodder for stalls and a great way to kill sweepers.

 

[Siggu]

Id run liquidation
Because scald is useless on toxapex,
Not only is it weak in special attacking, if you are burning your oponents, whats the point of toxic. Also, lowering their defences would be able to deal more damage and is good on a slow pokemon, so you can essentially stop their stat boosts with haze, then use liquidation to reduce their defences

... until you realize that Haze would remove the defense drops from Liquidation.

While it's true that burns would counteract the plan to Toxic the opposition, it's a matter of trying to hit physical attackers with Scald, and everything else with Toxic. We may not be psychic, but it's worth the risk.

 

[peaswar]

... until you realize that Haze would remove the defense drops from Liquidation.

While it's true that burns would counteract the plan to Toxic the opposition, it's a matter of trying to hit physical attackers with Scald, and everything else with Toxic. We may not be psychic, but it's worth the risk.

I see, but if you haze, then liquidation you are safe unless they try to set up again

 

[LeNorm]

Man some people's logic here is laughable.

Here Gamefreak gives us a Pokemon with Registeel-level defenses, Recover, Regeneration, good typing, and immunity to poison but with attacking stats similar to Rattata. Better try to run an offensive set and focus on damage!

While that is true, isn't half the fun of competitive pokemon using a variety of pokemon and a variety of sets to outsmart your opponent. I don't really enjoy only using sets that everyone else uses - being creative adds a stronger degree of satisfaction when your team does well, and more opportunities to correct any problems.

 

[Team Skull's Guzma]

I don't think you realize that teams built around Merciless are devastating, especially with Toxapex knowing Venoshock after having been given a Choice Scarf with its teammates setting up for it with Toxic Spikes and Toxic. All it takes is a Venoshock and everything will die

 

[Pyukumu-kukuku]

I see, but if you haze, then liquidation you are safe unless they try to set up again

The way I see it, liquidation is a tank buster option. Toxipek isn't much of a tank buster because of it's low offensive stats. Scald would be the better option if your pitted against steel/poison types that you can't poison since toxic will likely be it's main source of damage. Both liquidation/scald will do about the same amount of damage but the main difference would be a burn would cripple an atk based mon and will never be hindered by using haze while liquidation gets neither of these.

Basically, Liquidation would be better on something that can do serious damage to a tank, like Araaquanid with Water Bubble.

 

[TURBODERP]

I don't think you realize that teams built around Merciless are devastating, especially with Toxapex knowing Venoshock after having been given a Choice Scarf with its teammates setting up for it with Toxic Spikes and Toxic. All it takes is a Venoshock and everything will die

Not really? Most things that take neutral from Poison damage don't get OHKO'd by Venoshock.

252+ SpA Life Orb Toxapex Venoshock (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 175-207 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage

That's....unimpressive. Meanwhile, uninvested Psychic is a 2HKO 75% of the time against 252/0 Toxapex.

 

[StickyRobot]

While that is true, isn't half the fun of competitive pokemon using a variety of pokemon and a variety of sets to outsmart your opponent. I don't really enjoy only using sets that everyone else uses - being creative adds a stronger degree of satisfaction when your team does well, and more opportunities to correct any problems.

Oh well yeah, using weird stuff is the fun part of comp pokes for me. With optimal EVs, nature, moveset and timing most ideas can be successful. It isn't weird sets that bother me, its people like the poster just under you seriously advocating for offensive Scarf Toxapex. Having fun is fine but there comes a point where reality sets in and people need to understand that if you want an offensive Pokemon there are numerous things that do it better.

Fun set? Knock yourself out. But anyone seriously claiming offensive Toxapex is viable is just flat out wrong.

 

[Kaoru_Amane]

I'm using this set and it seems ideal enough.

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Scald
- Recover
- Haze

 

[RedSceptile.]

Can people stop trying to mention Merciless? It's a gimmick and a bad one just like Z Splash Mimikyu. No one is saying creativity is bad, but trying to pass off shit as gold doesn't make it not shit.

 

[Dragontamer]

Regenerator + Recovery makes this thing the mother of all sponges.

However, I keep thinking that the only reason why this thing is used is because Slowbro is getting murdered by Pheromosa's Lunge and U-Turn. Haze / Toxic seems just... way too passive for me. Slowbro has Calm Mind, equally huge Physical bulk (thanks to significantly higher HP) and the Calm-Mind boosts both its attack and weaker Sp. Def. With Regenerator and Slack Off, Slowbro just seems like the superior pokemon.

Slowbro can also run a surprise attacking set, due to Fire-Blast, Psyshock, Surf, Psychic, Psyshock and a mediocre (but workable) 100 Sp. Atk stat.

Not even Mega-Slowbro. I'm talking straight up Calm Mind / Scald / Psyshock / Slack Off Regenerator Slowbro.

Of course, this only applies after Pheromosa gets banned. Because seriously losing to the premier sweeper in the game spamming U-Turn means that Slowbro just is unviable.

 

[Azuzumiku-chan]

I don't think you realize that teams built around Merciless are devastating, especially with Toxapex knowing Venoshock after having been given a Choice Scarf with its teammates setting up for it with Toxic Spikes and Toxic. All it takes is a Venoshock and everything will die

So in order for Toxapex to be 'devastating' you'd have to set up toxic spikes which steels, poison and flying types ignore. A choice scarfed Toxapex isn't outspeeding much too btw and since you put a choice scarf on it you are probably not having any recovery on it.

Why do all that when stuff like Tapu Lele, Tapu Bulu, Pheromosa , Hoopa and sooooo much more outdamages it without any prior set up needed like having the opponents statused?

 

[y2zipper]

I definitely think Scald, Haze, Toxic, Recover with regenerator is the best set this has. Scald is better agaist physical attackers because you can play for the burn instead of just using toxic. Haze prevents set-up and recover is for sponging stuff...

 

[Alphanex20]

Regenerator + Recovery makes this thing the mother of all sponges.

However, I keep thinking that the only reason why this thing is used is because Slowbro is getting murdered by Pheromosa's Lunge and U-Turn. Haze / Toxic seems just... way too passive for me. Slowbro has Calm Mind, equally huge Physical bulk (thanks to significantly higher HP) and the Calm-Mind boosts both its attack and weaker Sp. Def. With Regenerator and Slack Off, Slowbro just seems like the superior pokemon.

Slowbro can also run a surprise attacking set, due to Fire-Blast, Psyshock, Surf, Psychic, Psyshock and a mediocre (but workable) 100 Sp. Atk stat.

Not even Mega-Slowbro. I'm talking straight up Calm Mind / Scald / Psyshock / Slack Off Regenerator Slowbro.

Of course, this only applies after Pheromosa gets banned. Because seriously losing to the premier sweeper in the game spamming U-Turn means that Slowbro just is unviable.

Eh, Tox has better special bulk and (arguably) a better typing. Of note, you can wall Mega Charizard Y (something Slowbro wishes it could do) and you're immune to poison. Toxic Spikes and Haze are just icing on the cake. It has more defensive utility than Slowbro, IMO, while Slowbro isn't as passive (more of a tank than a sponge).

 

[Dragontamer]

Eh, Tox has better special bulk and (arguably) a better typing.

Tox has a better typing in the current metagame no doubt, but I'm thinking ahead when Pheromosa gets banned. Toxapex's ability to resist Ice / Bug / Fighting seems to be a very peculiar niche from the current warped metagame.

Tox has better special bulk initially, but a single Calm Mind tilts things into Slowbro's favor.

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 200-236 (65.7 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 314-370 (79.6 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-----------

On the Physical Side, Toxapex and Slowbro are virtually identital.

252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

IMO, while Slowbro isn't as passive (more of a tank than a sponge).

Slowbro is both a Tank AND a sponge. They both take physical hits approximately the same on the physical side (aka: probably 3-hit KO'd by Mega Pinsir Return). I guess Haze is a nifty trick because it is the "Goto anti-setup `mon". The other nifty trick is that Toxapex doesn't take up the "Leftovers slot", since Toxapex will be using Black Sludge as recovery.

Otherwise, Slowbro has the same exact attributes that make Toxapex a good sponge: access to Regenerator and access to Recovery (Slack Off).

I mean, Toxapex is passive as all hell.

0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 69-82 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Azelf: 78-93 (26.8 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO


+1 0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 172-204 (51.4 - 61%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Azelf: 129-153 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO

I guarentee you that Skarmory will win the setup wars vs Toxapex, and it's not like Haze beats Defog / Stealth Rocks. 4HKO vs -SpD Azelf is kind of awful. Slowbro will have issues vs Skarmory, but at least Skarmory is taking ~60% after the Calm Mind + Scald as Skarm whirlwinds the `Bro out.

 

[LeNorm]

Tox has a better typing in the current metagame no doubt, but I'm thinking ahead when Pheromosa gets banned. Toxapex's ability to resist Ice / Bug / Fighting seems to be a very peculiar niche from the current warped metagame.

Tox has better special bulk initially, but a single Calm Mind tilts things into Slowbro's favor.

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 200-236 (65.7 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 314-370 (79.6 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-----------

On the Physical Side, Toxapex and Slowbro are virtually identital.

252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery




Slowbro is both a Tank AND a sponge. They both take physical hits approximately the same on the physical side (aka: probably 3-hit KO'd by Mega Pinsir Return). I guess Haze is a nifty trick because it is the "Goto anti-setup `mon". The other nifty trick is that Toxapex doesn't take up the "Leftovers slot", since Toxapex will be using Black Sludge as recovery.

Otherwise, Slowbro has the same exact attributes that make Toxapex a good sponge: access to Regenerator and access to Recovery (Slack Off).

I mean, Toxapex is passive as all hell.

0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 69-82 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Azelf: 78-93 (26.8 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO


+1 0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 172-204 (51.4 - 61%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Azelf: 129-153 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO

I guarentee you that Skarmory will win the setup wars vs Toxapex, and it's not like Haze beats Defog / Stealth Rocks. 4HKO vs -SpD Azelf is kind of awful. Slowbro will have issues vs Skarmory, but at least Skarmory is taking ~60% after the Calm Mind + Scald as Skarm whirlwinds the `Bro out.

Toxapex has one big advantage over Slower (and most other OU mons, excluding Greninja), namely toxic spikes. This is a relatively rare move that can add a lot to stall minded teams, and free up a move slot for your other pokemon, who don't always need toxic when there is toxic spikes support, though obviously if they are reliant upon poisoning pokemon to get kos, they should still run toxic as its more reliable.

But bulk + toxic spikes is a bit of a niche for Toxapex; Tentacruel has less bulk, but also has rapid spin, and greninja more offensive presence, but far less bulk so can't reliably set toxic spikes up more than once or twice.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Damn so much salt on Merciless and Baneful Bunker here. Those 2 things would probably be better in Doubles

 

[Pyukumu-kukuku]

Damn so much salt on Merciless and Baneful Bunker here damn. Those 2 things would probably be better in Doubles

Baneful Bunker maybe, Merciless would still be trumped by Regenerator in Doubles

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Baneful Bunker maybe, Merciless would still be trumped by Regenerator in Doubles

Skill Swap though o.O

 

[putzbeard]

I've seen a lot of hate for infestation. But I was thinking, wouldn't toxic(spikes) + infestation trapping be useful to rack up damage over time on a pokemon that can't do much to kill your toxapex?

 

[lightninging]

wasting a turn skillswapping merciless is almost certainly not going to be a viable tactic in doubles. Tbh, i doubt toxapex will see much usage in doubles, it's way too passive.

 

[Pyukumu-kukuku]

Baneful Bunker maybe, Merciless would still be trumped by Regenerator in Doubles

Skill Swap though o.O

Hadn't considered that but I don't play doubles that frequently. 100% crit would be horrifying on some of those skill swap mons. Question is, what ability would toxapex benefit from...? *Begins research*

 

[Dragontamer]

I've seen a lot of hate for infestation. But I was thinking, wouldn't toxic(spikes) + infestation trapping be useful to rack up damage over time on a pokemon that can't do much to kill your toxapex?

Why would someone leave in a `mon who can't do much vs Toxapex? Every time Toxapex switches in, I have basically two responses:

1. Bring in my Taunt `mon
2. Bring in my Spiker and start laying spikes.

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 118-141 (38.8 - 46.3%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 172-204 (56.5 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes

3 layers of spikes means that my Wallbreaker KO's Toxapex without any setup, from max-HP on the switchins. No need to KO now, I'm going for the sweep later in the game. My Staraptor is Jolly Scarf (no Choice Band) but still manages the 2-hit KO after spikes support. As far as I'm concerned, the `mon is dead once three spiikes are up.

Of the other-heavy hitters in the Meta:

252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 229-273 (75.3 - 89.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after 2 layers of Spikes
252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 172-204 (56.5 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 229-273 (75.3 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxapex: 195-229 (64.1 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Raichu's STAB can switch between the Special Side and the Physical Side, so Toxapex is going to be 2HKO'd. Add in Electric Terrain or Psychic Terrain, and Raichu might OHKO.

In any case, Toxapex doesn't wall the major metagame threats aside from Pheromosa.

--------

But yeah, Free Spikes. Toxapex needs to come in, wall things (which... it has a lot of safe switch ins). But if Toxapex lays Toxic Spikes, the opponent can switch in a real Spiker / Stealth Rocker and gain superior momentum.

If Toxapex wants to threaten a "Walled Victory", there are a number of Wallbreakers in the current-metagame that must be KO'd before Toxapex has a chance. Staraptor, Marowak-A, Tapu Koko, Tapu Bulu, Raichu-A come to mind immediately. It seems too easy to overpower the Toxapex right now...

Of the major wallbreakers that "break" Toxapex, only Marowak-A is weak to pursuit. Tapu Koko outspeeds Dugtrio... so you'll need Scarf Dugtrio to have a chance. Dugtrio also traps-and-KOs Raichu-A.

-------

Toxapex is basically fine if you come into a predicted Swords Dance / Dragon Dance / other stat-up move. It also beats out slower-stat ups like Slowbro Calm Mind or a bulky DD strategy.

But if you "hope" that the Dragonite is a bulky-DD Fly-Nite... but you mispredict and oops... Dragonite was running Choice Band? Toxapex is going down.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

I really don't like Scald on something as passive as Toxapex.
I run

Infestation
Toxic(Spikes, depends on mood)
Recover
Haze

Black Sludge/Binding Band(this one is a gimmick but deals 1/6 damage instead of 1/8)

I mean... I know Scald burns and deals passive damage and all but it is very annoying dealing abmysbal damage on your opponent. Infestation atleast allows you to rack up toxic+trap damage and furthermore doesn't make you Hazard bait :/