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Toxicity [RMT]

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by M Dragon, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Arena Tycoonis the Smogon Tour Season 17 Champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    At a glance:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Intro:
    The main objective of this team is abusing Toxic Spikes. The combination of Substitute or a set up move + Toxic Spikes is a very dangerous and effective strategy, since Toxic Spikes weakens the foe, allowing me to set up much easier. At the start of the game I try to set up TS and SR as fast as possible. After that, I try to force switches, and I abuse TS with set uppers, Taunt and Substitute.
    The team has been working very well in SB, getting high in the LB with some alts, and it has been a pretty fun team to use.
    The team:
    [​IMG]

    Picardía | [​IMG]
    Roserade @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Ice]


    Set analysis
    One of the most reliable leads in today’s metagame, while also being the most reliable Toxic Spiker for offensive teams. With its speed + Focus Sash, it will set up TS nearly always, and it will also put something to sleep. It also absorbs the opponent’s TS, making Swampert’s life much easier. With Natural Cure, it can also absorb status, which is great in some situations, and have helped me a lot. It has also killed lots of gliscor, dnite and salamence with HP ice. Leaf storm is a strong attack that helps me beating those annoying bulky waters, and it allows me to weaken a lot most sleep absorbers, which can be key later in the battle, especially if that means their rotom cannot take a +1 DD waterfall from gyara, or their bulky gyara cannot wall heatran anymore. Even though it has 252 Spe / 252 SpA and a Focus Sash, it is NOT a suicide lead. I like to keep her alive later to absorb possible Toxic Spikes and to beat Crocune if Jirachi ever goes down. Roserade has proven to be an excellent member of the team.

    EVs
    The EVs are standard. 252 EVs in spd let me outspeed neutral base 100s, and 252 in SpAtk to hit as hard as possible.

    Lead Comparison
    This is how Roserade fairs against the top ten common leads according to the usage statistics; blue indicates little trouble caused, orange indicates that there is a bit of switching to do, and red is problematic:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG] | Azelf:
    I Leaf Storm turn 1. It will always Taunt me, or set up rocks. If ut attacks, Sash let me take the hit, and I switch to Scarftran.
    [​IMG] | Aerodactyl:
    HP ice while it taunts, and kill it with HP ice in the second turn while it sets up the rocks. If he uses SR the first turn, it will taunt the second turn, so I do the same.
    [​IMG] | Swampert:
    Sleep powder and set up Toxic Spikes. Sometimes I like leaf storming turn 1, so I catch their sleep talker and they take a big hit, or even better, I kill their Swampy if they are stupid enough to keep Swampy.
    [​IMG]| Machamp:
    I use TS and then I switch to Gyara to intimidate it. Sometimes I switch to Gyara in turn 1. It's an annoying lead.
    [​IMG] | Metagross:
    It can be quite annoying. I switch to Rotom and t-bolt it to doom. If I know it doesnt have occa berry, I switch to Heatran.
    [​IMG] | Jirachi:
    Switch to Swampy to set up the rocks.
    [​IMG] | Infernape:
    I switch to swampy to set up the rocks.
    [​IMG] | Roserade:
    Hidden Power Ice means that Im faster than HP fire version, while HP ground version does little to my rade. I HP first turn and switch to tran next turn.
    [​IMG] | Ninjask:
    Hidden Power until it BP. After that I use Sleep powder.
    [​IMG] | Hippowdon:
    The same than with Swampert.


    [​IMG]
    StarCry | [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Wish
    - Psychic


    Set analysis
    This jirachi is a monster, especially with TS support. Wish + CM allows me to outstall many pokes, and with TS support, it will always easily beat things like Celebi or Blissey, which are very annoying (specially leech seed celebi). Wish is very useful, especially when none of jirachi partners has recovery moves, and works especially well with Gyarados. Gyarados and Jirachi cover their weakness perfectly, and they resist nearly all the types. Psychic is its main attack, and helps a lot against things like Machamp or Breloom, which are very annoying pokes. Thunderbolt + Serene Grace has helped me many times paralyzing things like Scarftran. Psychic and Thunderbolt is an old standard with great neutral coverage. Jirachi is designed to tank hits while setting up and Wishing as required. This Pokémon can destroy stall and hurts offense a lot.

    EVs

    The speed EVs let me outspeed most Breloom, so I can Psychic them before they can Spore me, and defensive Zapdos that are EVd to outspeed jolly DDtar. The rest goes to HP and defense, because I want it to take physical hits as well as possible


    [​IMG]
    Miedo | [​IMG]
    Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 156 HP/72 Atk/96 Def/184 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge/Bounce
    - Taunt


    Set analysis
    What a monster. It can take lots of physical hits like nothing, and easily set up in lots of pokes. It is also my main Infernape and Heatran answer, pokes that love switching into Jirachi. Gyarados is a great Jirachi partner, and Wish keeps it at good health, giving it lots of chances to sweep. Dragon Dance to raise its Attack and its Speed, so it becomes a big threat for my opponent’s team. Taunt means I can easily set up in a lot of walls like Skarm or bulky Gyara, and avoids things like Celebi to paralyze me, and it also helps me abusing the TS. Late game it can easily destroys many teams. I’m using Stone Edge because it let me beat other Gyara and Salamence (now uber), but Bounce let me beat Celebi, and the extra turn for poison damage and leftovers recovery is nice. I need suggestions here.

    EVs
    It’s just the standard EV spread for bulky gyara. The HP EVs let Gyara survive 2 LO Fire Blast from Heatran, and the spd EVs let it outspeed scarftar and +speed base 115s after a Dragon Dance.


    [​IMG]
    Krakatoa | [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Explosion


    Set analysis
    Scarftran is a very good pokemon, and it revenge kills a lot of stuff. I had subtran in this spot at first, but things like LOgar or HP ground azelf gave me a lot of trouble, so I decided to give him the scarf, and it works quite well. TS means bulky waters have a much harder time switching in (specially Vappy), and it actually surprises (now most of the heatran are bulky, sub or shuca berry). It has lots of resistances, wish support, massive sp atk, and a Speed stat of 417 with the Choice Scarf, so expect it switching in a lot of times, and doing a lot of damage, specially with the TS adding damage to their bulky waters. Fire blast is my main attack, and it scores a lot of OHKOes to things like Metagross, Gengar or Celebi, but Im considering Flamethrower because FB misses has costed me some games. Earth Power complements FB very well, and it allows me to revenge kill threats like LOtran or Infernape. I’m considering using Hidden Power electric instead of Dragon Pulse, since Salamence is now uber, and it would give me another gyara check. Explosion for Bliss and Snorlax.

    EVs
    Maximizing Special Attack is an absolute necessity to achieve the aforementioned OHKOs, while maxing the speed allows me to speed ties with opposing Scarftran, and outspeeding all +speed base 76s with Choice Scarf, and all neutral base 80 Choice Scarfers. Naive is the superior option because I wanted to be able to switch into Scizor's Bullet Punches better, and I didn’t want te make my explosion weaker.


    [​IMG]
    Pesadilla | [​IMG]
    Rotom-w @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 64 HP/212 Spd/232 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump


    Set analysis
    The MVP of the team, and the responsible of a lot of wins. Rotom is my Sub + TS abuser, and my spin blocker. I usually can set up a Sub vs a bulky water or a choiced ground move, and start its reign of terror. Substitute block status, and it allows me to hit hard to anything my opponent sends. Thunderbolt is its main attack, and it lets me beating bulky waters, and it provides great coverage with Shadow Ball. Hydro Pump let me beat bulky grounds like Gliscor and Hippowdon, and it also let me beat Tyranitar. It also destroys Steelix, and 2HKOes Magnezone (both of them resist my 2 stabs). Hydro Pump also let me revenge kill Mamoswine and non scarf Heatran. If I have 2 layers of TS, Rotom will always beat non Aromatherapy Bliss. It aso works really well with Heatran, since people will try to kill Rotom with Dark or Ghost attacks, which usually mean free switch for Heatran. Heatran attracts a lot of Fighting and Ground attacks, which usually mean free Sub for Rotom.

    EVs
    The HP EVs mean that bliss will never break my Sub with Flamethrower or IB, while the speed EVs let me outspeed Jolly Mamoswine, and most Subrotoms, which is always nice. The rest goes to sp atk.


    [​IMG]
    Lodoso | [​IMG]
    Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
    Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Beam
    - Earthquake
    - Roar


    Set analysis
    After having the other 5 members of the team, I noticed some problems in the team. The most important one was the lack of SR, which is very important in any team, and especially in a team that is trying to abuse TS. The team also had lots of trouble with Heatran (specially Scarf), and with Tyranitar (despite of the TS, a DDtar was very annoying, especially if its item was Lum Berry), so I thought, what poke can set up SR, and can take most Heatran hits well and at the same time be able to check Tyranitar (especially the DD version)? The answer seems easy: Swampert is the perfect pokemon or this spot. Swampert not only does that quite well, it can also take electric attacks like nothing (which gives the rest of the team a lot of trouble, especially if used with Shadow Ball), and it can wall a big number of pokes. EQ is my main attack, and it is used to take down things like Metagross and Tyranitar, while IB kills dragons. Roar helps me wearing down my opponent team and is a great way to scout his team and to expand the TS.

    EVs
    Standard EVs, just to take physical hits as well as possible.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Arena Tycoonis the Smogon Tour Season 17 Champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Threat List
    -------------------------

    Blue indicates neutrality; it is a relatively easy Pokémon to handle.

    Orange
    indicates that the Pokémon does cause switching and stimulates more thought processes of possible scenarios than usual.

    Red
    indicates a cause for serious concern as it has the ability to sweep / cause damage to half of my team.​

    Off
    ensive Threats

    -------------------------
    [​IMG]| Aerodactyl:

    • Leads: As I said in the comparative list: I just hidden power it twice.

    • Sweepers: Swampert and Rotom beat this thing.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Alakazam :

    • Encore Leads: Annoying lead. I usually Hidden Power to break the sash in the tant, and then I go to Scarftran. After that, I will still have rade at 100%.

    • Generic SweeperScarftran revenge kills, Jirachi can set up. TS destroy it.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Azelf :

    • Leads: Rade + Scarftran.

    • Sweepers: Scarftran, and Rotom if needed.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Breloom :

    • Leads: I Hidden Power turn 1. If they are faster, it means they are scarf, so i will keep rade until they switch out or I wake up.

    • Substitute: Just let something take the sleep, and after that, everything but Swampy can beat it. If I have nothing sleep, Rotom can Sub, as it Spores, giving me a free turn, Jirachi can Psychic it, Gyara can Intimidate, Rade can Hidden Power...
    .....
    [​IMG]| Dragonite :

    • Dragon Dance: Swampert can IB, Gyara can intimidate and force it into an Outrage.

    • Heal Bell + Dragon Dance: Swampert. Gyarados can intimidate if needed. Last poke is really annoying, as it can take swampys IB and roost the damage.

    • Leads: HP ice turn 1.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Dugtrio :

    • Choice Band / Scarf: It can be annoying because it can trap my Heatran (scarf) and my Jirachi (75% more or less with CB EQ)
    .....
    [​IMG]| Electivire :

    • Generic Sweeper: Swampert and Rotom destroys this thing.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Empoleon :

    • Lead: Roserade can beat this.

    • SubPetaya: If Jirachi is weak and it agilities, it's usually game. I try not to let it agility, especially if Jirachi is not at 100%.

    • Tank: Roserade and Rotom can easily beat it, while Jirachi can easily set up on it.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Flygon :

    • Choiced users: Swampert can Ice Beam this to hell or set up on it, Rotom can take any of it's attack easily but Outrage, Jirachi eats the Outrage easily, and Gyara intimidates. It can be annoying.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Gengar :

    • Substitute + Pain Split: Verry annoying. I try to revenge kill it with Heatran, or killing it with Jirachi.

    • Life Orb: Heatran and Jirachi will beat it.

    • Choiced user: Between Rotom and Heatran, I can usually beat it easily. If it Focus Blast, it gives Rotom a free turn to Sub. Jirachi can set up
    .....
    [​IMG]| Gyarados :

    • Dragon Dance: Rotom-w can deal with Gyarados with Thunderbolt. Jirachi will easily beat it, and my own Gyarados can Intimidate it, making it easier to kill.

    • RestTalker: Set up bait for my Gyara.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Heatran :

    • Choice Scarf: Usually Swampert and Gyarados are my main answers. Heatran can absorb its Fire Blasts, but it has to be very careful with Earth Power.

    • Choice Specs: Again, Swampert and Gyarados. Heatran and Rotom can always revenge kill.

    • Life Orb: It's dangerous because HP grass will kill Swampy, and FB will do a lot of damage to Gyara. Heatran and Rotom can revenge kill.

    • SubToxic: It can be annoying. Rotom-A, Gyarados, Swampert and Heatran (if its not behind a Sub) can beat it.

    • Substitute + Torment: Gyarados Taunts and sets up.
    .....
    [​IMG]
    | Heracross :

    • Choice users: Gyarados can take anything but Stone Edge, Rotom is a great switch, Heatran can revenge kill...
    .....
    [​IMG]
    | Infernape :

    • Special-based Mix: Gyarados. Heatran revenge kills.

    • Physical-based Mix: Swampert and Gyarados (be careful with SE and t-punch).

    • Choiced Mix: Swampert, Gyarados and Rotom (be careful with fire attack).

    • Lead: Not a problem. I go straight to Swampert and set up Stealth Rock, then I either Earthquake, Roar, or go Gyara.

    • Nasty Plot: Gyarados. Heatran can revenge kill.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Jirachi :

    • Choiced users: Swampert, Heatran, Jirachi, Gyarados. Not a problem at all.

    • Body Slam: Rotom-w and Jirachi handle this easily.

    • Calm Mind: Swampert handles all Calm Minders bar SuperRachi. Heatran will also beat it.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Jolteon :

    • Choice Specs: Swampert can come in on Thunderbolt, but I must be careful to evade Hidden Power Grass. Rotom-h can switch in on Shadow Ball-less Jolteon, and Heatran can revenge kill.

    • Life Orb: If this has Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Grass, then I am definitely going to lose a Pokémon or get severely damaged. Scarftran is my best answer (as well as TS, which will help a lot), Jirachi can beat it too.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Kingdra :

    • Dragon Dance: Swampert and Jirachi can beat it. TS help a lot.

    • Rain Dance: TS help a lot here too. I try to force de DM to Jirachi
    .....
    [​IMG]| Lucario :

    • Swords Dance: Rotom outspeeds, Heatran revenge kills, not really a problem.

    • Choice Specs: Rotom-w comes in on Aura Sphere, Heatran comes in the rest of it's attack, Jirachi can set up, Gyarados can beat this thing too.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Machamp:

    • Sub + 3 attacks: Gyara for the intimidate and Jirachi.

    • Lead: Lead machamp cant touch Gyara.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Magnezone :

    • Choice Scarf: Jirachi uses this as set up fodder, Swampert walls it easily.

    • Thunder Wave + Substitute: Thunder Wave Magnezone are easy to deal with as long as they don't carry Hidden Power Grass - otherwise I can always kill it with Heatran.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Mamoswine :

    • Endeavor Lead: Rotom-W.

    • Generic Sweeper: Heatran can revenge kill, Rotom will beat it, Gyarados can beat it /be careful with SE). Poison will help here.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Metagross :

    • Lead: Rotom-w. It's an annoying lead.

    • Tank: Rotom, Heatran and Swampert.

    • AgiliGross: Swampert shits all over this Metagross and hurts it with Earthquake for the 2HKO.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Porygon-Z :

    • Choiced / Generic Sweeper: Poison will help me beating this thing. CMjirachi can set up on it.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Rhyperior :

    • SU(B)PERIOR: TS are it's worst enemy. Rotom can Hydro Pump, Gyarados can Intimidate. Swampert (be careful with SD version)

    • Trick Room: Swampert and TS.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Scizor :

    • Choice Band: Heatran, Gyarados, Rotom

    • Swords Dance: Heatran and Gyarados will beat any SD version.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Starmie :

    • Defensive: Rotom, Roserade, Jirachi...

    • Life Orb: A huge problem for the team. Jirachi is my best answer. Swampy can 2HKO it.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Togekiss :

    • ParaFlinch: Rotom y Jirachi.

    • Choice Scarf Lead: It can be dangerous (Trick is very annoying). Jirachi, Rotom and Heatran will beat it.

    • Nasty Plot: Rotom y Jirachi.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Tyranitar :

    • Choice Band: Swampert handles this well. TS will help me.

    • Choice Scarf: Swampert deals with this well.

    • Dragon Dance: Swampert handles this well. TS is really useful for beating it

    • TyraniBoah: Swampert. Otherwise most other Pokémon can take it, but I must be careful of how I switch in.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Weavile :

    • Lead: I switch to Jirachi to t-bolt it.

    • Generic Sweeper: Swampert and Guarados will destroy it.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Yanmega :

    • Lead: I put it to sleep. After that, HP will beat it. Jirachi can set up no it. Heatran will beat non HP ground ones, and Rotom will easily beat any version.

    • Generic Sweeper: Rotom is my main answer. Jirachi can set up.
    .....


    Defensive Threats
    -------------------------

    [​IMG] | Blissey :

    • Generic Wall: TS will allow Rotom to beat her easily. Jirachi and Gyara can easily set up.
    [​IMG][​IMG].....
    [​IMG] | Bronzong :

    • Standard Wall: Rotom can Sub against it, if its the lead, I will sleep it. Heatran can destroy it with FB. Jirachi and Gyara can set up on it (be careful with explosion)
    .....
    [​IMG] | Celebi :

    • Standard Wall: TS, Heatran and Rotom.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Cresselia :

    • Standard Wall: Jirachi set up fodder, if it has no charge beam, Gyarados can use it as a set up fodder too.

    • Psycho Shift/Flame Orb: Heatran, Taunt Gyara, Rotom.
    .....
    [​IMG]
    | Donphan :

    • Standard Wall: Rotom-w can OHKO it with Hydro Pump, while spin blocking it.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Forretress :

    • Standard Spiker: Rotom-w spin blocks, Heatran destroys it, Hirachi can set up, Gyarados too.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Gliscor :

    • Standard Wall/Stall-breaker: Swampert Ice Beams this to hell. Gyarados.

    • Baton Pass: Swampert
    .....
    [​IMG] | Hippowdon :

    • Standard Wall: Roserade, Rotom and Gyarados can easily beat it.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Skarmory :

    • Standard Wall/Spiker: Heatran, Gyarados, Rotom and Jirachi will beat this annoying poke.
    .....
    [​IMG] |Snorlax :

    • Curselax: Biggest threat for my team. I try beating it exploding with Heatran and taunting with Gyara, while TS slowly kills it. If it getts too many curses, it will beat me.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Suicune:

    • Wall: Jirachi, Roserade, Taunt Gyrara, and Rotom are great counters.

    • CM Sweeper: Toxic Spikes will destroy it. CM jirachi can set up.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Swampert :

    • Standard Tank: TS will make it much easier to kill. Gyarados can set up on it, and Rotom and Roserade can beat it easily.

    • CursePert: Roserade, and Taunt Gyara will beat it.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Tentacruel :

    • Generic Wall: Rotom-w deals with this, plain and simple.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Vaporeon :

    • Generic Wall: TS, Rotom, Gyarados (if it doesnt have HP electric), Jirachi.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Zapdos :

    • Generic Wall/Tyranitar: Swampert can set up on all wall variants and Roar them away effortlessly.
      CM Jirachi sets up on it

    • SubToxic: Jirachi.
    .....

    [​IMG]| Hax:
    An all-round bitch. End of. Can a description really define how ridiculous it is? :/
    .
    ....


    Credits for the awesome threat list goes to Vashta (thnx for letting me steal it :))

    I will add more information to the threat list soon
  3. BlazeMurder

    BlazeMurder

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    309
    Use HP Ground over HP Ice on Roserade. It will allow you to beat Heatran leads.
  4. gritane

    gritane

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    35
    The team is quite nice ^^

    But I think it's a bit Nasty Ape weak vacuum wave can kill heatran if he is wekened and Ko Gyarados with Grass knot but still uncommon ^^

    nice team !
  5. Doctor Who?

    Doctor Who?

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    The problems you have highlighted in your threat list all seem to be checked by a Scarftar but I don't know where it would fit into your team. I'm inclined to think that the most replaceable member of the team would be Heatran, but then you lack a good lure for bulky waters so you can kill them early. Another thing you lack is a second check to Metagross and Scizor, etc. so I think you then need to accommodate recovery on Rotom-W, but that isn't too hard to make way for because with a Scarftar you then have coverage for Gengar, etc. and other ghost types. So to sum up, Scarftar >>> Scarftran and Pain Split >>> Shadow Ball.

    Hope I helped.
  6. Megan_Fox

    Megan_Fox

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    928
    hey MDragon, nice team. not too much that can be fixed. in fact i really only have 1 nitpick.

    with the increase in grass type usage, i would definitely run bounce on gyrados. I also see shaymin- particularly sweeper shaymin as a threat for your team. it relatively easily beats swampert, rotom and gyrados (assuming your using stone edge) and heatran is OHKO'd by earthpower. jirachi can outstall it but spec def drops make it risky. putting bounce will help resolve that issue better too.

    I wont be suprised if you dont even consider this suggestion considering that it reguards your "mvp" but ill suggest this anyways because it seems like a viable change to me. You could use subsplit gengar > your subrotom. in exchange for bulk and an electric stab, you get a much stronger, faster sweeper who can abuse ts equally as well. gengars LO focusblast means that youll also be able to deal a considerable amount of damage to snorlax therefore reducing its ability to threaten you. being able to outspeed unscarfed ape, rachi, shaymin and tie gengar is also helpfull as well. also painsplit means you have a form of recovery and can still beat blissy should you for whatever reason not get both layers of tspikes. focusblast means you also ohko lucario and tyranitar which you couldnt do before
  7. ToF

    ToF
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 13 Champion

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Looks a bit Dragon Dance Gyarados weak. You can Roar with Swampert for only so long, and your current Rotom-W build isn't gonna get the job done as a 'counter' per say. Jirachi can handle it to an extent I guess, but LO Earthquake will definitely hurt.

    Personally I'd just run a defensive Rotom-W. Look at it this way, even RestTalk will beat non-Aromatherapy Blissey right? And if you get a bit lucky with Sleep Talk and choose to run Thunderbolt / Hydro Pump, you can catch Scarftar on the switch anyway. And since Scarftar usage is declining anyway, I don't see why Substitute Rotom-W is so valuable anymore anyway. Changing Rotom-W to be more defensive opens you up to Lucario a bit though, so I'd just keep Gyarados as healthy as possible through Jirachi's Wish support.

    I also agree with running Bounce on Gyarados. Lately, Taunt + Bounce has become a popular and quite annoying combination on Gyarados, allowing you to rack up the Toxic Spikes damage through stalling and hitting common counters like Celebi very hard.

    Your Sub Petaya Empoleon problem can't really be solved because changing a single member on this team adds more problems, so I'll just say that Roaring it out with Swampert is probably your best temporary bet.
  8. Vacancy

    Vacancy

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    15
    How about Scarf Rotom-H to deal with DD Gyara and Sub Petaya Empoleon?

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