1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Trevenant (QC: 3/3) (GP: 2/2) (Rejected: 2/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Punchshroom, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,142
    [​IMG]
    credit to alexwolf

    Overview
    ########
    Trevenant is one of the best spinblockers available, thanks to a great typing that grants it resistances to attacks both from common spinners and in general. Not only that, but it also has two great abilities in Harvest and Natural Cure that grant it good longevity, and a massive advantage over fellow spinblockers. Trevenant also has a decent movepool and a respectable enough Attack stat to prevent it from becoming setup bait; however, Trevenant is fairly slow, which can be problematic because it preferably wants to cripple foes or heal before they can retaliate. Its standalone bulk isn't fantastic either, especially when compared to Gourgeist, a rival Grass / Ghost Pokemon. Finally, its abilities, while very handy, have drawbacks that can prevent it from doing its job, such as Natural Cure requiring Trevenant to switch, which can be taken advantage of, or in the case of Harvest, simply not activating at the right time. However, Trevenant still does a very good job at sticking around, letting it disrupt foes and spinblock for longer than other Ghost-types.

    Status Absorber
    ########
    name: Status Absorber
    move 1: Horn Leech / Wood Hammer
    move 2: Rock Slide / Earthquake
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Rest
    ability: Natural Cure / Harvest
    item: Leftovers / Lum Berry
    evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
    nature: Impish

    Moves
    ========
    Horn Leech is the main STAB move, and hits good number of threats for decent damage while providing passive healing; alternatively, Wood Hammer is a much stronger attack and has the greater potential to KO threats, such as a 2HKO on max HP Tyranitar and Landorus-I, but running it means that Trevenant loses health with each attack instead of gaining it. The next move prevents Trevenant from being taken advantage of easily by those that resist Grass-type attacks. Rock Slide prevents Fire-types such as Talonflame, Charizard, and Volcarona from getting easy switch-ins or setup opportunities; Earthquake is applied in much the same way against Steel-types such as Heatran and Mega Mawile, but most other Steel-types cannot actually do much back to Trevenant, much less not mind the burn, so it is the lesser option. Will-O-Wisp is Trevenant's quintessential dirsuption tool, crippling physical foes and providing residual damage. Rest fully heals Trevenant's HP and cures any status problems, and the side-effect of putting it to sleep can be easily remedied via its ability of choice.

    Set Details
    ========
    76 Speed EVs are important to allow Trevenant to outspeed Scizor and Tyranitar and burn them, preventing them from Pursuit trapping it, and even enabling it to turn the tables on them. The remaining EVs are thrown into HP and Defense, as Trevenant has favorable matchups against a variety of physical threats such as Garchomp, Excadrill, Azumarill, and Breloom, which it can then proceed to burn. A specially defensive spread is also viable for handling Water- and Electric-type threats more easily, but the physical attackers that Trevenant checks are more common and can overwhelm Trevenant more readily if it cannot adequately respond to them. Leftovers offers good passive healing for Trevenant and increases its survivability, or at the very least means it will not be forced to Rest nearly as often; alternatively, the combination of Lum Berry and Harvest allows Trevenant to stay in after using Rest instead of being forced out, but is reliant on its Berry being regenerated, which might not always happen immediately, to keep itself status-free.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This variant of Trevenant does not care much about status at all, most notably enabling it to switch into Scald without worry, as well as allowing it to soak up other problematic status effects and shrug them right off. This variant of Trevenant aims to disrupt its opponents using its access to Will-O-Wisp, decent offensive power, defensive typing, and survivability. It can switch into status moves or one of the many attacks it resists, and start spreading burns or smacking opponents with its attacks, which can even be used to catch certain switch-ins for unexpectedly large damage. Natural Cure variants of Trevenant have slightly better longevity due to Leftovers and can consistently cure itself of status with Natural Cure, while Lum + Harvest variants have greater staying power in the face of status users and consequently do not fear Pursuit users very much.

    Team Options
    ========
    Tyranitar and Trevenant cover each other's weaknesses marvelously, while also taking on special and physical attacks with sandstorm's Special Defense boost and Will-O-Wisp, respectively. Tyranitar can also use Stealth Rock, which Trevenant can keep on the field by blocking Rapid Spin, making them great partners for long-term passive damage. Rotom-W also covers Trevenant's weaknesses to Fire and Flying, while it can avoid debilitating status by Volt Switching into Trevenant; in addition, both have access to Will-O-Wisp, so both of them can spread burns together. Trevenant has issues against the Fire-type opponents it cannot burn, making Water-, Ground-, and Rock-types good partners, while also boasting helpful defensive synergy with Trevenant. Specially defensive Pokemon such as Sylveon and Goodra appreciate facing burned opponents as it means their defenses are harder to pierce, which allows them to stick around on the battlefield for longer. Sweepers that despise status, such as Talonflame and Greninja, can pivot into Trevenant to absorb it for them.

    Spinblocker
    ########
    name: Spinblocker
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Horn Leech
    move 3: Shadow Claw / Leech Seed
    move 4: Protect
    ability: Harvest
    item: Sitrus Berry
    evs: 244 HP / 16 Def / 248 SpD
    nature: Careful

    Moves
    ========
    Will-O-Wisp cripples physical threats, most notably Excadrill, and also grants passive damage on foes. Horn Leech in conjunction with Sitrus Berry is vital in healing Trevenant to allow it to withstand attacks from the stronger spinners. It does 78-90% to offensive Starmie and 40-50% to max HP Mega Blastoise, which is often good enough damage to heal Trevenant out of 2HKOes. Shadow Claw is used for a STAB move that hits all spinners for at least neutral damage, while on the other hand Leech Seed both provides both quick healing with Horn Leech and Sitrus Berry, and also racks up damage alongside Will-O-Wisp. Protect allows Trevenant to stall for a turn, which can either be used to scout for a dangerous attack, wait for Harvest to regenerate Sitrus Berry, or cause extra passive damage with Will-O-Wisp and/or Leech Seed.

    Set Details
    ========
    The HP and Special Defense EVs reduce Mega Blastoise's Dark Pulse and Life Orb Analytic Starmie's Ice Beam to a measly 2% chance to 2HKO; the former needs two Sitrus Berries to achieve these odds while the latter only needs one. Interestingly, while Stealth Rock on the switch increases Mega Blastoise's chances to 2HKO Trevenant, Starmie is actually denied the 2HKO, as Sitrus Berry can be activated twice after the Life Orb- and Analytic-boosted Ice Beam. The rest of the EVs go into Defense to take on unboosted Excadrill better.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This set is dedicated to preventing spinners from getting rid of entry hazards, while making use of Protect and Harvest to inch Trevenant out of the 2HKO range of the spinners' attacks. Teams that utilize hazards can make use of Trevenant's spinblocking qualities to ensure that the hazards stay up throughout the match. Keeping Trevenant healthy is of utmost importance if an opposing spinner is present, so it should focus on keeping its health high before aiming to cripple its opponents. Keep Trevenant away from status and Pursuit users (as Trevenant no longer outspeeds the latter), as they will greatly limit this set's capacity to function due to Trevenant incurring too much damage. Keep in mind though that this set is mainly equipped to deal with Starmie and Mega Blastoise while doing only decently against Excadrill without Swords Dance, but if you have greater troubles with Excadrill, you should probably try Gourgeist instead.

    Team Options
    ========
    Hazard setters provide residual damage that Trevenant can stack with its own, while Trevenant's Ghost typing stops Rapid Spin from getting rid of the hazards. Tyranitar is the most obvious teammate, as it not only possesses Stealth Rock but also offers great defensive synergy with Trevenant; on rare occasions, Trevenant can even make use of sand to inch itself into Sitrus range to gain more net health. Spikes users are a tad harder to choose from as most, such as Skarmory and Forretress, share weaknesses with Trevenant, most notably to Fire. Greninja and Klefki have decent defensive synergy with Trevenant, though the former is frail; Trevenant, in turn, takes Ground-type attacks for Klefki or Electric-, Grass-, and Fighting-type moves for Greninja. Tentacruel and Greninja both have Toxic Spikes, but note that they can interfere with Trevenant's use of Will-O-Wisp. Note also that Trevenant cannot take on Swords Dance Excadrill with Iron Head or Shadow Claw, so fast powerful sweepers that can switch into those moves, such as Greninja and Charizard, are good partners as they can threaten Excadrill before it gets to spin. A backup plan against Starmie and Mega Blastoise is also advised in case they break through with high damage rolls or their moves' secondary effects; fast Electric-types such as Thundurus and Choice Scarf Rotom-W can dispatch them before they get the chance to spin, and can make use of the prevailing hazards with Volt Switch. Lucario can even activate Justified via Mega Blastoise's Dark Pulse and threaten with +1 Close Combat. Defog throws a wrench in the spinblocking plan, so Pokemon that can dispatch of the most common Defog users are exceptional partners. Tyranitar can Pursuit trap Latias and threaten Mandibuzz while also setting up Stealth Rock in their faces, the aforementioned Electric-type partners can handle Mandibuzz, and Magnezone traps Scizor to KO it with Hidden Power Fire. Bisharp is another option to take advantage of Defog's evasion-lowering effect, as it is able to switch into it for a Defiant boost, and can also Pursuit trap Latias if you wish.

    SubSeed
    ########
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Leech Seed
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Phantom Force
    ability: Harvest
    item: Sitrus Berry
    evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
    nature: Impish

    Moves
    ========
    Will-O-Wisp weakens physical threats, which can be rendered unable to break Trevenant's Substitute or just not do enough damage to overwhelm it. Leech Seed damage stacks quickly alongside Will-O-Wisp, and also heals Trevenant, thus allowing it to keep making Substitutes. Substitute is used to avoid status and direct attacks, and it takes advantage of the Sitrus Berry and Harvest combo to generate infinite Substitutes. Phantom Force provides both a STAB move and a method to stall out more turns, either to rack up more Will-O-Wisp and/or Leech Seed damage, or to increase the odds of getting the Sitrus Berry back. The fact that it cannot be blocked by Protect is the icing on the cake.

    Set Details
    ========
    Maximum HP provides an even HP number, allowing Sitrus Berry to activate at exactly 50% as opposed to very slightly lower. The rest are thrown into HP and Defense, as Trevenant's physical resistances coupled with Will-O-Wisp can make its Substitutes hard to break. 76 Speed is for outpacing 0 Spe Scizor and Tyranitar, burning the former before it can U-turn and improving the match-up against the latter by enabling Trevenant to hit Tyranitar with Will-O-Wisp and Horn Leech before Tyranitar hits Trevenant with super effective moves.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    If Trevenant can grab a free Substitute, it can stall out almost any opponent that cannot do over 75% damage to it. Physical opponents should be burned, and Leech Seed should be used on anything else in order to keep Trevenant healthy. Trevenant can spam Substitute while remaining healthy due to Sitrus Berry + Harvest, letting the residual damage do the rest. If a Sitrus Berry is not generated by the end of the turn, Phantom Force can be used to stall for a turn to get it back, while also doing more damage to the opponent, though note that Normal-types can switch in for free and break the chain. SubSeed Trevenant should avoid status like the plague, as even paralysis can screw up the tempo of this set by forcing it to miss a crucial turn, while damaging status conditions limit the number of Substitutes it can make.

    Team Options
    ========
    Toxic Spikes are a good way to buy Trevenant time to start the stalling chain without having to waste a turn to burn or Leech Seed foes, while also affecting grounded Fire-types. Greninja and Tentacruel have access to Toxic Spikes, while also offering decent defensive synergy with Trevenant, and can take on Fire-types in their own right. Grass-types are immune to Leech Seed and often pack healing moves to counteract Will-O-Wisp; Heatran is an example of an excellent partner, as it not only easily deals with said Grass-types, but handles Fire-types as well, all while having great defensive synergy with Trevenant. Pokemon with Substitute can take the whole strategy apart, so an Infiltrator user or user of sound-based attacks such as Chandelure, Noivern, Bug Buzz Volcarona, or Hyper Voice Sylveon can be used to punish Substitute users.

    Other Options
    ########
    Curse could fit on the SubSeed set as it bypasses Substitute, but there are very few times where Trevenant is willing to drop 50% of its health and become even more reliant on Harvest for its staying power, and it has little room to squeeze it into the set. Forest's Curse is a gimmick at best, as unlike Soak it merely adds Grass-type to the opponent as opposed to replacing it entirely. Trevenant's high Attack stat and movepool options may imply that it could run a decent Choice Band set, but it is too slow to be effective and it throws away the survivability aspect of Trevenant that represents its biggest advantage over other Ghost-types. Destiny Bond allows Trevenant to take down an opponent with it by surprise, but it is too slow to be very effective as a surprise tactic and, again, sacrifices Trevenant's longevity. Hone Claws can be used to boost Trevenant's power as well as accuracy, but it doesn't have the moveslot for it and it doesn't usually stay in battle long enough for it to matter. Trick Room gives Trevenant some sweeping potential, but all of its moves bar Wood Hammer do not have impressive power, and Wood Hammer itself has rather poor coverage when it comes to sweeping foes.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Residual Damage Immunity**: Most Pokemon that aren't affected by at least one of Trevenant's disruption techniques can give the tree trouble. Fire-types make for good responses thanks to their immunity to Will-O-Wisp, but they have to watch out for Earthquake or Rock Slide. Grass-types are immune to Leech Seed, but they can have difficulty actually KOing Trevenant. Magic Bounce users can bounce back most of Trevenant's moves, but Mega Absol is frail while Espeon and Xatu have to be wary of Ghost-type moves. Magic Guard Clefable can comfortably switch into Trevenant, but can struggle to bring it down without a boosting move. Faster Substitute users or Lum Berry users can temporarily evade Trevenant's Leech Seed and/or Will-O-Wisp to lay the beatdown on Trevenant.

    **Taunt**: Shutting down Trevenant's main forms of disruption and healing screws it up hard for the most part, so users such as Gliscor, Thundurus-I, Deoxys-D, and even Talonflame can stop most Trevenant sets cold. Just be sure that said Taunt user can take attacks from Trevenant, because Trevenant does have a base 110 Attack stat.

    **Item Removal**: Trevenants that use Berries hate losing them to moves such as Trick or Knock Off - the latter even deals super effective damage to it or, if used by a strong enough attacker, can outright knock it out. If that wasn't bad enough, sticking a Choice item on Trevenant is even more detrimental to it as it can no longer alternate moves, which it needs to do to be effective.

    **Pursuit**: This is especially relevant for Natural Cure variants, which have to switch to avoid being sitting ducks after using Rest. Harvest variants do not tend to switch out nearly as often.

    **Infiltrator**: Noivern, Crobat, and Chandelure tear right through Substitute variants, doing massive damage or KOing with their STAB moves.

    **Special Attackers**: As a last resort, you should respond with these to Trevenant simply because they do not mind being burned, though if they do not have a way to shrug off the residual damage, they can succumb before Trevenant does.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  2. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,152
    You mean Trevenant right? That aside...

    QC APPROVED (1/3)

    Good work.
  3. Hrothgar

    Hrothgar

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    Messages:
    351
    Is the subseed set necessary? You've got two fine sets so I'm not sure it's worth the trouble to add a third set that isn't good. This is the age of vastly improved grass types and pranksters and magic bouncers, and this thing is laughably slow to begin with.

    Also just a bit of contradiction when you say it has a great defensive typing but also say a problem is its ton of weaknesses.

    Sorry if I sound negative, this write-up is great. Just trying to help.
  4. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,318
    SubSeed is a really annoying Pokemon that pairs well with stuff like a bulkier team. While it's true that it isn't the most spectacular set, it really does great at harassing opponents that are dumb enough to forget Taunt at home. Whirlwind / Roar to an extent as well.
  5. GamingShawn

    GamingShawn

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    I think Clefable should be added to the Checks & Counters since it has Magic Guard which shuts down all of Trevenant's residual-damaging moves and most variants carry Flamethrower or Fire Blast for Steel-types
  6. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA Lonely Wanderer
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,750
  7. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,142
    Added.
  8. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,142
    I have remodeled the Spinblocker set, as I was under the impression they'd still mostly be running Shadow Claw on Excadrill (still stuck in the pre-Bank era :P); most Excas run Iron Head in PokeBank, which will be what this analysis will be based on.

    Plus the current set gets wrecked by Modest Mega-Blastoise's Dark Pulse.

    This is the new spread:

    name: Spinblocker
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Horn Leech
    move 3: Shadow Claw / Leech Seed
    move 4: Protect
    ability: Harvest
    item: Sitrus Berry
    evs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 116 SpD / 76 Spe
    nature: Careful

    252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Trevenant: 278-328 (74.3 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Trevenant: 263-309 (70.3 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Trevenant: 312-367 (83.4 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,537
    The SubSeed set stays. As for the new spread, it does seem good, though Trevenant still can't switch into any attack of Starmie or Blastoise, as it gets 2HKOed (so it needs to switch into Rapid Spin.
  10. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,142
    Yeah I thought about that, Trevenant should really try to improve the Starmie and Blastoise matchup; Excadrill is better left off to Gourgeist really. I'll make some calcs again.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2013
  11. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,142
    Made the Spinblocker set specially defensive to improve the Starmie and Mega-Blastoise matchup (and it can still take on non-SD Excadrill); made a note that Gourgeist should be used over it if Exca is the problem spinner.
  12. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego I'm not ready 4 freddy
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,885
    Bumping this so it gets back on the front page; it's practically ready!
    Punchshroom likes this.
  13. ColtCababa

    ColtCababa

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    161
    This input may not matter much, but you should add Crobat with **Infiltrator** since it has a high chance of OHKOing variants that haven't invested much in Def. Aside from Infiltrator, it can foil the purpose of the Spinblocker set with Defog, and even Taunt it. Crobat is one of the somewhat more common Defoggers, so it just comes up.
  14. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,142
  15. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,537
    If possible, provide a couple of examples where Wood Hammer is preferred on the first set. Also, replace the Aegislash mention with special Mega Lucario, as Aegislash is already badly crippled by WoW.

    Explain that by stalling out for more turns, you get to both harass the opponent with WoW/Leech Seed and have better chances at getting your Sitrus Berry back.

    Remove Roserade as a partner from the third set, it's very redundant with Trevenant.

    Remove Custap Berry from OO as it's unreleased currently.

    Other than that, great job


    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 3/3
  16. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,142
    Thanks! Now into Copyediting.
  17. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,362
    Add
    Remove
    Comments
    Show Hide

    Overview
    ########
    One of the best spinblockers available, Trevenant has great typing that grants it resistances to [/COLOR]attacks both from the common Rapid spinners and attacks in general. Not only that, but it has two great abilities in Harvest and Natural Cure that grant it good longevity, a massive advantage it has over fellow spinblockers. Trevenant also has a decent movepool and a respectable enough Attack stat to prevent itself from becoming setup bait against most threats. However, Trevenant is fairly slow, which can be problematic since because it preferably wants to cripple foes or heal before they can retaliate. Its standalone bulk isn't fantastic either, especially when compared to Gourgeist, a fellow Grass / Ghost-(RH but add space)type Pokemon it faces competition with. Finally, its abilities, while very handy, have drawbacks that can prevent it from doing its job, such as forcing a Trevenant to switch,(AC) which can be taken advantage of or , and simply not activating at the right time. However, Trevenant still does a very good job at sticking around, letting it disrupt foes and spinblock longer than other Ghost-types.

    Status Absorber
    ########
    name: Status Absorber
    move 1: Horn Leech / Wood Hammer
    move 2: Rock Slide / Earthquake
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Rest
    ability: Natural Cure / Harvest
    item: Leftovers / Lum Berry
    evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
    nature: Impish


    Moves
    ========
    Horn Leech is the main STAB
    move, hitting a good majority of threats for decent damage while providing passive healing; Wood Hammer is a much stronger attack and has greater KOing potential to KO threats, but running it costs Trevenant health means that Trevenant loses health with each attack instead of gaining it. The next move prevents Trevenant from being taken advantage of easily:(change to period) Rock Slide prevents Fire-types such as Talonflame, Charizard, and Volcarona from getting easy switch-ins or setup opportunities; Earthquake is applied in much the same against Steel-types such as Heatran and special-attacking specially based Lucario, but a good majority of Steel-types cannot actually do much back to Trevenant, much less not mind the burn, so it is less essential. Will-O-Wisp is Trevenant's quintessential dirsupting tool, crippling physical foes and providing residual damage. Rest fully heals Trevenant's HP and cures its status problems, and the sleeping side-effect of putting it to sleep can be easily remedied via its ability of choice.

    Set Details
    ========
    76 Speed EVs are important to outspeed Scizor and Tyranitar
    to and burn them, preventing them from Pursuit trapping you Trevenant and can even turn the tables on them. The rest of the remaining EVs are sorted thrown into HP and Defense, since as Trevenant has favorable matchups with against a variety of physical threats such as Garchomp, Excadrill, Azumarill, and Breloom, which it can proceed to burn. A specially defensive spread is viable for handling Water- and Electric-type threats better, but the physical attackers that Trevenant checks are more common and can overwhelm Trevenant more easily if Trevenant it cannot respond to them adequately. Leftovers offers good passive healing for Trevenant and increase increase its survivability or at least not be forced to Rest nearly as often, while the combination of Lum Berry and Harvest allows Trevenant to stay in after using Rest,(RC) instead of being forced out, but it is reliant on its Berry, which it may might not always get back immediately, to keep itself status-free.(consider segmenting the sentence by separating at the point at which you say 'while')

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This variant of Trevenant does not care much
    for about status at all, most notably Scald, allowing it to soak up problematic status effects and shrug them right off. Trevenant aims to disrupt its opponents using its access to Will-O-Wisp, decent offensive power, defensive typing, and survivability. It can switch into status moves or one of the many attacks that it resists, and start spreading burns or smacking opponents with its attacks, which can even be used to catch certain switch-ins for unexpectedly large damage. Natural Cure Trevenants variants of Trevenant have slightly better longevity due to Leftovers and can consistently cure itself of status, while LumHarvest variants have greater staying power in the face of status users and do not fear Pursuit users very much.

    Team Options
    ========
    Tyranitar and Trevenant cover each other's weaknesses marvelously, while also taking on
    either side of the attacking spectrum(never use sides of spectrum when referring to phys and special attacks !_!_!_!_!!!!!!!!!!!!) with Sandstorm's Special Defense boost and Will-O-Wisp respectively. Tyranitar can also use Stealth Rock, which Trevenant can keep on the field by blocking Rapid Spin, making them great partners. Rotom-W also covers Trevenant's weaknesses to Fire and Flying, while it can avoid debilitating status by Volt Switching into Trevenant and ; both of them can spread burns together. Trevenant has issues against the Fire-type opponents that it cannot burn, so making Water-types, Ground-types, and Rock-types are good answers against good partners to deal with Fire-types, while having their weaknesses covered by Trevenant and vice versa as well. Specially defensive Pokemon such as Florges and Goodra appreciate facing burned opponents as it means their defenses would be made are harder to pierce through, allowing which allows them to stick around on the battlefield longer. Sweepers that despise status, such as Talonflame and Greninja, can pivot into Trevenant to absorb it for them.

    Spinblocker
    ########
    name: Spinblocker
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Horn Leech
    move 3: Shadow Claw / Leech Seed
    move 4: Protect
    ability: Harvest
    item: Sitrus Berry
    evs: 244 HP / 16 Def / 248 SpD
    nature: Careful


    Moves
    ========
    Will-O-Wisp cripples physical threats, most notably Excadrill, and also lands chip damage on foes. Horn Leech,
    (RC) alongside in conjunction with Sitrus Berry,(RC) is vital in healing Trevenant to allow it to withstand attacks from the stronger Rapid Spinners spinners, while also hitting Starmie and Mega-(RH)Blastoise for good damage. Shadow Claw is for a STAB move that hits all spinners for at least neutral damage, while Leech Seed both provides both quick healing with Horn Leech and Sitrus Berry, and also stacks up in damage alongside Will-O-Wisp. Protect allows Trevenant to stall for a turn, which can either be used scout for a dangerous attack, wait for Harvest to regenerate Sitrus Berry, or do extra passive damage with Will-O-Wisp and / or (remove spaces before and after slashes) Leech Seed.

    Set Details
    ========
    The HP and Special Defense EVs reduce Mega-
    (RH)Blastoise's Dark Pulse and Life Orb Analytic Starmie's Ice Beam (the Analytic boost only applying on the switch) (implied) to a measly 2% chance to 2HKO;(change to comma) the former needing 2 two Sitrus Berries to activate while the latter only needs one. Interestingly, while Stealth Rock increases Mega-(RH)Blastoise's chances to 2HKO Trevenant, Starmie is actually denied the 2HKO, since as Sitrus Berry can be activated twice after the Life Orb- and Analytic-(AH)boosted Ice Beam. The rest of the EVs go into Defense to take on unboosted Excadrill better.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This set is much more dedicated to prevent spinners from getting rid of entry hazards, making use of Protect and Harvest to inch Trevenant out of 2HKO range of the spinners' attacks. Teams that utilize hazards can make use of Trevenant's spinblocking qualities to ensure the hazards stay up throughout the match. Keeping Trevenant healthy is of utmost importance if a
    n opposing spinner is present, so it should focus on keeping its health high before aiming to cripple its opponents. Keep Trevenant away from status and Pursuit users (as Trevenant no longer outspeeds the latter), as they will greatly limit this set's capacity to function due to Trevenant incurring too much damage. Keep in mind though that this set mainly deals with Starmie and Mega-(RH)Blastoise while doing decently against Excadrills Excadrill without Swords Dance, but if you have greater troubles with Excadrill then ,(AC) you should probably try Gourgeist instead.

    Team Options
    ========
    Hazard setters provide residual damage that Trevenant can stack with its own, while the latter's Ghost typing stops Rapid Spin from getting rid of the hazards. Tyranitar is the most obvious teammate, possessing Stealth Rock while offering great defensive synergy with Trevenant; on rare occasions
    ,(AC) Trevenant can even make use of Sandstorm sand to inch itself into Sitrus range to gain more net health. Spikes users are a tad harder to choose from as most, such as Skarmory and Forretress, share weaknesses with Trevenant, most notably Fire. Greninja and Klefki have decent defensive synergy with Trevenant, though the former is frail; Trevenant,(AC) in turn,(AC) takes Ground-type attacks for Klefki or Electric-, Grass-, and Fighting-type moves for Greninja. Tentacruel and Greninja have Toxic Spikes, but note that they may can interfere with Trevenant's Will-O-Wisp. Note that Trevenant cannot take on Swords Dance Excadrill with Iron Head or Shadow Claw, so fast powerful sweepers that can switch into those moves, such as Greninja or and Charizard, are good partners, as they can threaten Excadrill before it gets to spin. A backup plan against Starmie and Mega-Blastoise is also advised in case they break through with high damage rolls or their moves' secondary effects; fast Electric-types such as either Thundurus or and Choice Scarf Rotom-W can dispatch of them before the spin, and can make use of the unspinned hazards with Volt Switch. Lucario can even activate Justified via Mega-Blastoise's Dark Pulse and then Mega-evolve Evolve to OHKO with +1 Adaptability Close Combat. Defog throws a wrench in the spinblocking plan, so Pokemon that can dispatch of the most common Defog users are exceptional partners. Tyranitar can Pursuit trap Latias and threaten Mandibuzz while also setting up Stealth Rock in their faces, the aforementioned Electric-type partners can handle Mandibuzz, and Magnezone traps Scizor to KO it with Hidden Power Fire. Bisharp is another option to take advantage of Defog's evasion-lowering effect, switching into it for a Defiant boost, and can also Pursuit trap Latias if you so wish so.

    SubSeed
    ########
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Leech Seed
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Phantom Force
    ability: Harvest
    item: Sitrus Berry
    evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
    nature: Impish


    Moves
    ========
    Will-O-Wisp weakens physical threats, which
    may can be rendered unable to break Trevenant's Substitute or just not do enough damage to overwhelm Trevenant. Leech Seed damage stacks quickly alongside Will-O-Wisp, and also heals Trevenant to allow it to keep making Substitutes. Substitute is used to avoid status and direct attacks, and it takes advantage of the Sitrus Berry and Harvest combo to generate infinite Substitutes. Phantom Force provides both an STAB move and a method to stall out more turns, either to rack up more Will-O-Wisp and / or(remove spaces) Leech Seed damage, or to increase the odds of getting the Sitrus Berry back. The fact that it cannot be blocked by Protect is the icing on the cake.

    Set Details
    ========
    Max
    imum HP provides an even-numbered maximum HP number, allowing Sitrus Berry to activate at exactly 50% as opposed to very slightly lower. The rest are thrown into HP and Defense, as Trevenant's physical resistances coupled with Will-O-Wisp can make its Substitutes harder to break. 76 Speed is for outpacing 0 Spe Scizor and Tyranitar, burning the former before it can U-turn and improving the matchup against the latter with Will-O-Wisp and Horn Leech before it hits Trevenant with super effective moves.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    If Trevenant can grab a free Substitute, it can stall out almost any opponent that cannot do over 75% of damage to it. Physical opponents should be burned, and
    you should use Leech Seed on anything else should be Leech Seeded. Trevenant can spam Substitute while remaining healthy due to Sitrus Berry + Harvest, letting the residual damage do the rest. If a Sitrus Berry is not generated by the end of the turn, Phantom Force can be used to stall for a turn to get it back, while also doing more damage to the opponent, though note that Normal-types can switch in for free and break the chain. SubSeed Trevenant should avoid status, as even paralysis can screw up the tempo of this set by forcing it to miss a crucial turn while damaging status conditions limit the amount of Substitutes it can make.

    Team Options
    ========
    Toxic Spikes are a good way to buy Trevenant time to start the stalling chain without having to waste a turn to burn or Leech Seed foes, while also affecting grounded Fire-types. Greninja and Tentacruel have access to Toxic Spikes, while also offering decent defensive synergy with Trevenant
    ,(AC) and can take on Fire-types. Grass-types are immune to Leech Seed and often pack healing moves to counteract Will-O-Wisp; Pokemon such as Talonflame and Heatran can easily deal with Grass-types (which is why...???? the last part is just a statement and doesnt mean anything. are they good partners? are they good counters?). Pokemon with Substitute can take the whole strategy apart, so an Infiltrator user or sound-attack user of sound-based attacks such as Chandelure or Noivern can be used to punish Substitute users.

    Other Options
    ########
    Curse could fit on the SubSeed set as it bypasses Substitute, but there are few times where Trevenant is willing to drop 50% of its health and become even more reliant on Harvest for its staying power, and
    it has little room to squeeze into the set. Forest's Curse is a gimmick at best, since as unlike Soak,(AC) it merely adds Grass-type to the opponent as opposed to replacing it entirely. Trevenant has enough moves to compile a Choice Band set (compile is used wrongly; what does trevenant's movepool have to do with running a cb set), but it is too slow and it throws away the 'survivability'(remove quotes) aspect of Trevenant that it has over other Ghost-types. Destiny Bond allows Trevenant to take down an opponent with it by surprise, but it is too slow to be very effective and again,(AC) sacrifices Trevenant's longevity. Hone Claws can be used to boost Trevenant's power as well as accuracy, but it doesn't have the moveslot for it and it doesn't usually stay in battle long enough for it to matter. Trick Room gives Trevenant some sweeping potential, but all of its moves bar Wood Hammer do not have impressive power, the latter of which has rather poor coverage when it comes to sweeping foes.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Residual damage immunity**: Most Pokemon that aren't affected by at least one of Trevenant's disruption techniques can give the tree trouble. Fire-types make
    for good responses but they have to watch out for Earthquake or Rock Slide. Grass-types are immune to Leech Seed, but they can have difficulty actually beating (do you mean 'KOing'?) Trevenant. Magic Bouncers users can bounce back most of Trevenant's moves, but Mega-(RH)Absol is frail while Espeon and Xatu have to be wary of Ghost-type moves. Magic Guard Clefable can comfortably switch into Trevenant, but can struggle to bring the latter it down without a boosting move. Faster Substitute users or and Lum Berry users can temporarily evade Trevenant's Leech Seed and / or(nospace) Will-O-Wisp to lay the beatdown on Trevenant.

    **Taunt**: Shutting down Trevenant's main form of disruptions and healing screws Trevenant up hard for the most part, so users such as Gliscor, Thundurus-I, Deoxys-D,(AC) and even Talonflame can stop most Trevenants Trevenant sets cold. Just be sure that said Taunt user can take attacks from Trevenant, since because Trevenant does have a base 110 Attack stat.

    **Item removal**: Trevenants that use Berries hate losing them to moves such as Trick or Knock Off, (change to semi) the latter even deals super effective damage to it or outright knock it out. If that weren't wasn't bad enough, sticking a Choice item on Trevenant is even more detrimental to it as it can no longer alternate moves, which it needs to do to be effective.

    **Pursuit**: This is especially relevant for Natural Cure variants, who which have to switch to avoid being sitting ducks after using Rest. Harvest variants do not tend to switch out nearly as often.

    **Infiltrator**: Noivern, Crobat,(AC) and Chandelure tear right through Substitute variants, doing massive damage or KOing with their STAB moves.

    **Special attackers**: As a last resort, you should respond with these to Trevenant simply because they do not mind being burned, though if they do not have a way to shrug off the residual damage,(AC) they can succumb before Trevenant does.

    1/2
  18. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,142
    Reworded:

    Kingler12345 likes this.
  19. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,286
    REMOVE
    ADD
    COMMENT


    checky (open)


    Overview
    ########
    Trevenant is one One of the best spinblockers available, Trevenant has thanks to a great typing that grants it resistances to attacks both from common spinners and in general. Not only that, but it also has two great abilities in Harvest and Natural Cure that grant it good longevity, and a massive advantage it has over fellow spinblockers. Trevenant also has a decent movepool and a respectable enough Attack stat to prevent itself it from becoming setup bait;(semicolon) against most threats. However however, Trevenant is fairly slow, which can be problematic because it preferably wants to cripple foes or heal before they can retaliate. Its standalone bulk isn't fantastic either, especially when compared to Gourgeist, a fellow rival Grass / Ghost type Pokemon it faces competition with. Finally, its abilities, while very handy, have drawbacks that can prevent it from doing its job, such as forcing Natural Cure requiring Trevenant to switch, which can be taken advantage of, and or in the case of Harvest, simply not activating at the right time. However, Trevenant still does a very good job at sticking around, letting it disrupt foes and spinblock for longer than other Ghost-types.

    Status Absorber
    ########
    name: Status Absorber
    move 1: Horn Leech / Wood Hammer
    move 2: Rock Slide / Earthquake
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Rest
    ability: Natural Cure / Harvest
    item: Leftovers / Lum Berry
    evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
    nature: Impish

    Moves
    ========
    Horn Leech is the main STAB move, hitting and hits a good majority number of threats for decent damage while providing passive healing; alternatively, Wood Hammer is a much stronger attack and has the greater potential to KO threats, such as a 2HKO on max HP Tyranitar and Landorus-I, but running it means that Trevenant loses health with each attack instead of gaining it. The next move prevents Trevenant from being taken advantage of easily by those that resist Grass-type attacks. Rock Slide prevents Fire-types such as Talonflame, Charizard, and Volcarona from getting easy switch-ins or setup opportunities; Earthquake is applied in much the same way against Steel-types such as Heatran and specially based Lucario, but a good majority of most other Steel-types cannot actually do much back to Trevenant, much less not mind the burn, so it is less essential the lesser option. Will-O-Wisp is Trevenant's quintessential dirsupting disruption tool, crippling physical foes and providing residual damage. Rest fully heals Trevenant's HP and cures its any status problems, and the side-effect of putting it to sleep can be easily remedied via its ability of choice.

    Set Details
    ========
    76 Speed EVs are important to allow Trevenant to outspeed Scizor and Tyranitar and burn them, preventing them from Pursuit trapping it, Trevenant and can even enabling it to turn the tables on them. The remaining EVs are thrown into HP and Defense, as Trevenant has favorable matchups against a variety of physical threats such as Garchomp, Excadrill, Azumarill, and Breloom, which it can then proceed to burn. A specially defensive spread is also viable for handling Water- and Electric-type threats better more easily, but the physical attackers that Trevenant checks are more common and can overwhelm Trevenant more easily readily if it cannot adequately respond to them adequately. Leftovers offers good passive healing for Trevenant and increases its survivability,(comma) or at the very least means it will not be forced to Rest nearly as often; alternatively, the combination of Lum Berry and Harvest allows Trevenant to stay in after using Rest instead of being forced out, but is reliant on its Berry being regenerated, which it might not always get back happen immediately, to keep itself status-free.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This variant of Trevenant does not care much about status at all, most notably enabling it to switch into Scald without worry, as well as allowing it to soak up other problematic status effects and shrug them right off. This variant of Trevenant aims to disrupt its opponents using its access to Will-O-Wisp, decent offensive power, defensive typing, and survivability. It can switch into status moves or one of the many attacks it resists, and start spreading burns or smacking opponents with its attacks, which can even be used to catch certain switch-ins for unexpectedly large damage. Natural Cure variants of Trevenant have slightly better longevity due to Leftovers and can consistently cure itself of status with Natural Cure, while LumHarvest Lum + Harvest variants have greater staying power in the face of status users and consequently do not fear Pursuit users very much.

    Team Options
    ========
    Tyranitar and Trevenant cover each other's weaknesses marvelously, while also taking on special and physical attacks with Sandstorm's sandstorm's Special Defense boost and Will-O-Wisp,(comma) respectively. Tyranitar can also use Stealth Rock, which Trevenant can keep on the field by blocking Rapid Spin, making them great partners for long-term passive damage. Rotom-W also covers Trevenant's weaknesses to Fire and Flying, while it can avoid debilitating status by Volt Switching into Trevenant; in addition, both have access to Will-O-Wisp, so both of them can spread burns together. Trevenant has issues against the Fire-type opponents it cannot burn, making Water-, Ground-, and Rock-types good partners to deal with Fire-types, while also boasting helpful defensive synergy with having their weaknesses covered by Trevenant and vice versa as well. Specially defensive Pokemon such as Sylveon and Goodra appreciate facing burned opponents as it means their defenses are harder to pierce through, which allows them to stick around on the battlefield for longer. Sweepers that despise status, such as Talonflame and Greninja, can pivot into Trevenant to absorb it for them.

    Spinblocker
    ########
    name: Spinblocker
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Horn Leech
    move 3: Shadow Claw / Leech Seed
    move 4: Protect
    ability: Harvest
    item: Sitrus Berry
    evs: 244 HP / 16 Def / 248 SpD
    nature: Careful

    Moves
    ========
    Will-O-Wisp cripples physical threats, most notably Excadrill, and also grants lands chip passive damage on foes. Horn Leech in conjunction with Sitrus Berry is vital in healing Trevenant to allow it to withstand attacks from the stronger spinners, while also hitting Starmie and Mega Blastoise for good damage [specify how much]. Shadow Claw is used for a STAB move that hits all spinners for at least neutral damage, while on the other hand Leech Seed both provides both quick healing with alongside Horn Leech and Sitrus Berry, and also stacks racks up in damage alongside Will-O-Wisp. Protect allows Trevenant to stall for a turn, which can either be used to scout for a dangerous attack, wait for Harvest to regenerate Sitrus Berry, or do cause extra passive damage with Will-O-Wisp and/or Leech Seed.

    Set Details
    ========
    The HP and Special Defense EVs reduce Mega Blastoise's Dark Pulse and Life Orb Analytic Starmie's Ice Beam to a measly 2% chance to 2HKO; the former needing needs two Sitrus Berries to activate in order to achieve these odds, while the latter only needs one. Interestingly, while Stealth Rock on the switch increases Mega Blastoise's chances to 2HKO Trevenant, Starmie is actually denied the 2HKO, as Sitrus Berry can be activated twice after the Life Orb- and Analytic-boosted Ice Beam. The rest of the EVs go into Defense to take on unboosted Excadrill better.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This set is much more dedicated to prevent preventing spinners from getting rid of entry hazards, while making use of Protect and Harvest to inch Trevenant out of the 2HKO range of the spinners' attacks. Teams that utilize hazards can make use of Trevenant's spinblocking qualities to ensure that the hazards stay up throughout the match. Keeping Trevenant healthy is of utmost importance if an opposing spinner is present, so it should focus on keeping its health high before aiming to cripple its opponents. Keep Trevenant away from status and Pursuit users (as Trevenant no longer outspeeds the latter), as they will greatly limit this set's capacity to function due to Trevenant incurring too much damage. Keep in mind though that this set is mainly equipped to deal deals with Starmie and Mega Blastoise while doing only decently against Excadrill without Swords Dance, but if you have greater troubles with Excadrill, you should probably try Gourgeist instead.

    Team Options
    ========
    Hazard setters provide residual damage that Trevenant can stack with its own, while the latter's Trevenant's Ghost typing stops Rapid Spin from getting rid of the hazards. Tyranitar is the most obvious teammate, possessing as it not only possesses Stealth Rock but also offers while offering great defensive synergy with Trevenant; on rare occasions, Trevenant can even make use of sand to inch itself into Sitrus range to gain more net health. Spikes users are a tad harder to choose from as most, such as Skarmory and Forretress, share weaknesses with Trevenant, most notably to Fire. Greninja and Klefki have decent defensive synergy with Trevenant, though the former is frail; Trevenant, in turn, takes Ground-type attacks for Klefki or Electric-, Grass-, and Fighting-type moves for Greninja. Tentacruel and Greninja both have Toxic Spikes, but note that they can interfere with Trevenant's use of Will-O-Wisp. Note also that Trevenant cannot take on Swords Dance Excadrill with Iron Head or Shadow Claw, so fast powerful sweepers that can switch into those moves, such as Greninja and Charizard, are good partners as they can threaten Excadrill before it gets to spin. A backup plan against Starmie and Mega Blastoise is also advised in case they break through with high damage rolls or their moves' secondary effects; fast Electric-types such as Thundurus and Choice Scarf Rotom-W can dispatch of them before the they get the chance to spin, and can make use of the unspinned prevailing hazards with Volt Switch. Lucario can even activate Justified via Mega Blastoise's Dark Pulse and then Mega Evolve to OHKO with +1 Adaptability Close Combat. Defog throws a wrench in the spinblocking plan, so Pokemon that can dispatch of the most common Defog users are exceptional partners. Tyranitar can Pursuit trap Latias and threaten Mandibuzz while also setting up Stealth Rock in their faces, the aforementioned Electric-type partners can handle Mandibuzz, and Magnezone traps Scizor to KO it with Hidden Power Fire. Bisharp is another option to take advantage of Defog's evasion-lowering effect, switching as it is able to switch into it for a Defiant boost, and can also Pursuit trap Latias if you wish so.

    SubSeed
    ########
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Leech Seed
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Phantom Force
    ability: Harvest
    item: Sitrus Berry
    evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spe
    nature: Impish

    Moves
    ========
    Will-O-Wisp weakens physical threats, which can be rendered unable to break Trevenant's Substitute or just not do enough damage to overwhelm Trevenant it. Leech Seed damage stacks quickly alongside Will-O-Wisp, and also heals Trevenant, thus allowing to allow it to keep making Substitutes. Substitute is used to avoid status and direct attacks, and it takes advantage of the Sitrus Berry and Harvest combo to generate infinite Substitutes. Phantom Force provides both a STAB move and a method to stall out more turns, either to rack up more Will-O-Wisp and/or Leech Seed damage, or to increase the odds of getting the Sitrus Berry back. The fact that it cannot be blocked by Protect is the icing on the cake.

    Set Details
    ========
    Maximum HP provides an even HP number, allowing Sitrus Berry to activate at exactly 50% as opposed to very slightly lower. The rest are thrown into HP and Defense, as Trevenant's physical resistances coupled with Will-O-Wisp can make its Substitutes harder hard to break. 76 Speed is for outpacing 0 Spe Scizor and Tyranitar, burning the former before it can U-turn and improving the match-up against the latter by enabling Trevenant to hit Tyranitar with Will-O-Wisp and Horn Leech before it Tyranitar hits Trevenant with super effective moves.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    If Trevenant can grab a free Substitute, it can stall out almost any opponent that cannot do over 75% of damage to it. Physical opponents should be burned, and Leech Seeded Seed should be used on anything else in order to keep Trevenant healthy. Trevenant can spam Substitute while remaining healthy due to Sitrus Berry + Harvest, letting the residual damage do the rest. If a Sitrus Berry is not generated by the end of the turn, Phantom Force can be used to stall for a turn to get it back, while also doing more damage to the opponent, though note that Normal-types can switch in for free and break the chain. SubSeed Trevenant should avoid status like the plague, as even paralysis can screw up the tempo of this set by forcing it to miss a crucial turn,(comma) while damaging status conditions limit the amount number of Substitutes it can make.

    Team Options
    ========
    Toxic Spikes are a good way to buy Trevenant time to start the stalling chain without having to waste a turn to burn or Leech Seed foes, while also affecting grounded Fire-types. Greninja and Tentacruel have access to Toxic Spikes, while also offering decent defensive synergy with Trevenant, and can take on Fire-types in their own right. Grass-types are immune to Leech Seed and often pack healing moves to counteract Will-O-Wisp; Heatran is an example of an excellent partner, as it not only easily deals with said Grass-types, but handles Fire-types as well, all while having great defensive synergy with Trevenant. Pokemon with Substitute can take the whole strategy apart, so an Infiltrator user or user of sound-based attacks such as Chandelure or Noivern can be used to punish Substitute users.

    Other Options
    ########
    Curse could fit on the SubSeed set as it bypasses Substitute, but there are very few times where Trevenant is willing to drop 50% of its health and become even more reliant on Harvest for its staying power, and it has little room to squeeze it into the set. Forest's Curse is a gimmick at best, as unlike Soak it merely adds Grass-type to the opponent as opposed to replacing it entirely. Trevenant's high Attack stat and movepool options may imply that it could run it runs a decent Choice Band set, but it is too slow to be effective and it throws away the survivability aspect of Trevenant that represents its biggest advantage it has over other Ghost-types. Destiny Bond allows Trevenant to take down an opponent with it by surprise, but it is too slow to be very effective as a surprise tactic and,(comma) again, sacrifices Trevenant's longevity. Hone Claws can be used to boost Trevenant's power as well as accuracy, but it doesn't have the moveslot for it and it doesn't usually stay in battle long enough for it to matter. Trick Room gives Trevenant some sweeping potential, but all of its moves bar Wood Hammer do not have impressive power, and Wood Hammer itself the latter of which has rather poor coverage when it comes to sweeping foes.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Residual damage immunity**: Most Pokemon that aren't affected by at least one of Trevenant's disruption techniques can give the tree trouble. Fire-types make for good responses thanks to their immunity to Will-O-Wisp, but they have to watch out for Earthquake or Rock Slide. Grass-types are immune to Leech Seed, but they can have difficulty actually KOing Trevenant. Magic Bounce users can bounce back most of Trevenant's moves, but Mega Absol is frail while Espeon and Xatu have to be wary of Ghost-type moves. Magic Guard Clefable can comfortably switch into Trevenant, but can struggle to bring it down without a boosting move. Faster Substitute users or Lum Berry users can temporarily evade Trevenant's Leech Seed and/or Will-O-Wisp to lay the beatdown on Trevenant.

    **Taunt**: Shutting down Trevenant's main form forms of disruptions disruption and healing screws it up hard for the most part, so users such as Gliscor, Thundurus-I, Deoxys-D, and even Talonflame can stop most Trevenant sets cold. Just be sure that said Taunt user can take attacks from Trevenant, because Trevenant does have a base 110 Attack stat.

    **Item removal**: Trevenants that use Berries hate losing them to moves such as Trick or Knock Off - the latter even deals super effective damage to it or, if used by a strong enough attacker, can outright knock it out. If that wasn't bad enough, sticking a Choice item on Trevenant is even more detrimental to it as it can no longer alternate moves, which it needs to do to be effective.

    **Pursuit**: This is especially relevant for Natural Cure variants, which have to switch to avoid being sitting ducks after using Rest. Harvest variants do not tend to switch out nearly as often.

    **Infiltrator**: Noivern, Crobat, and Chandelure tear right through Substitute variants, doing massive damage or KOing with their STAB moves.

    **Special attackers**: As a last resort, you should respond with these to Trevenant simply because they do not mind being burned, though if they do not have a way to shrug off the residual damage, they can succumb before Trevenant does.


    [​IMG]
    GP 2/2
  20. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,142
    I added Bug Buzz Genesect as a "Team Option" for SubSeed Trevenant, where at the end of the paragraph it suggests sound-based users (Boomburst Noivern sucks).

    Done!
  21. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,318
    So I think it is sadly time to:
    [​IMG]
    Let's review - one of the prime reasons for using Trevenant was to block Rapid Spin and its typing wasn't too shabby for resisting some interesting threats. However, despite having arguably the best tools in comparison to Gourgeist, Trevenant is simply way too frail to effectively keep up with such an offensive-driven metagame. Though it can deter Pursuit users with Will-O-Wisp, Trevenant is usually slower than some of them like Bisharp and Scarf Tyranitar. Nevermind that Rapid Spin is sooooo Generation V (I'm kidding - but Defog is used on teams more often than Rapid Spin for sure). HarvestSeed is stopped cold via Taunt too which never helps.

    Though this analysis is considered "done" it would technically have to be updated due to Genesect and Mega Lucario being gone. But honestly, I kind of want to reject the analysis because Trevenant, put bluntly, isn't that great anymore.

    So sorry Punchshroom buddy...

    QC Rejected 1/3
    SmashBrosBrawl and Jukain like this.
  22. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,675
    yeah Trev was in OU when this was written so it was necessary. This can be updated and put in archive if it ever comes back (it wont). Part of what makes me also doubt its viability is the fact that its probably the most knock off weak pokemon after Chansey due to its reliance on items, and in this meta so many pokes carry it for filler (see Azumarill and Landorus who trev would otherwise be decent against those two).
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2014
    Halcyon. likes this.
  23. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,142
    I can see why this is starting to get rejected, as it was one of the earlier analyses to get approved, and this is when the recent unbanning of Excadrill was all the rage, Knock Offs weren't flying around everywhere, and the top threats didn't completely eat it alive. I haven't been using Trevenant too much myself in OU these days, so I'll just have to idly wait for UU analyses before I write this entire thing up again. Thanks for input!
  24. TheTraininator

    TheTraininator

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    363
    I don't see any need to completely reject the analysis, as it's not like Trevenant is totally unviable in OU; it's just nowhere near as solid as it used to be, thanks to how surprisingly quickly his meta keeps shifting. Maybe the analysis needs rewording or reworking, but Trevenant still has a decently large enough niche that I think outright rejection might be too harsh for it.
  25. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,675
    The issue is that QC policy has changed a bit, which is part of the reason he QC team iteself has been updated. We feel as if what receives an analysis in OU has to be not just usable in OU but actually something we want to encourage users to use.

    If we go over the OU viability rankking list, the number of Pokemon that ravage Trevenant, use it as set up bait, or crry knock off is staggering. All of the s-rank eats it for breakfast, other than a couple moveset variants. In the entire A and S rank other than a few pokemon like Gyarados (not a guarantee if its running bite or bounce), Keldeo, Rotom-W, and Mega Venusaur easily get past it or are uneffected by it.

    this is the metagame and Trevenant doesn't really fit in with it. You can use Trevenant in OU and it wont be useless, but it isn't something we want readers to think will be a good addition to their team when standard dark/ghost spamming offensive teams will just eat it up

    with that being said QC reject 2/3

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)