You know what, I really don't want to keep this argument going. Agree to disagree. But the other important thing about the speed varient is that it lets you burn scizor before it can u-turn out, which I am pretty sure full defensive invested can't.
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Pokémon Trevenant
- Thread starter Scotti
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You're right about that. But I'm able to scout for U-Turn with Protect, and even if I stay in I don't take an overwhelming amount of damage. It works well enough for me, though I can see the advantage of burning a slow and bulky Scizor before it U-Turns out.
The trevenants are literally running the same set. Both end up with t-tar burned and the possibility to get more health and kill the same exact things, in this example t-tar. They literally are countered by almost identical things, and they can counter similar things. This argument is like vanilla ice cream versus french vanilla ice cream
French Vanilla is way better and will distract any Tyranitar switch ins.
Well, yeah.
Rotom(-W since we barely see the other Rotoms) can do nothing but WOW trevenant. So from my point of view if you see no point in Rotom staying the moment it realizes the situation it should seitch to something to better handle Trev. And this is for an Offense Trev not stupidly common Stall-Trev.
Wouldn't a Tyranitar with Taunt just absolutely shut down your set, reducing you to struggle while the speed invested set would still accomplish its mission and burn its target before being rendered innert?
That is the biggest reason I've seen to run speed EVs, out speeding minimum speed taunters.
Tyranitar never runs Taunt. Not even an other option in any
The point is valid for other slow taunters, and if Trev is one of the chief new pokemon to be pursuit trapped, and is complete taunt bait, it isn't hard to imagine a few old pursuiter adjusting their move sets and pumping a little but into speed to completely shut it down.
I was refering to both stall and offensive trev. And i was just using an example with rotom because it was the first thing that came off the top of my head. But my point was that you could potentially be asleep for more than no turns which could greatly hurt any trev, as they would be a sitting duck for around 1-2 turns due to the chance of harvest, and its far easier to force out a sleeping trev as opposed to a awake trev.
you have no need to rest unless you are on low HP. then yes your situation may be plausible. But fine: burn > set-up move, lum used -harvest activate-; burn > lum used, set-up move/rest, -no harvest-; I get what you are saying but i would still say for an offensive Trev its less a worry because you should only Rest when you are low or are about to take a large hit (and burn/poison would kill if not rested)
lumrest let's you beat water pokemon easier since you give no fucks about status now and are only forced to use rest when low on HP, which will be later in the match than it would be with chesto rest
I don't really like the Harvest ability, as unlucky as I am, I won't be getting Harvest anytime soon.
However I am currently running the Natural Cure + Rest set, as it is amazing status absorber. combined with Leech Seed and Protect, the pokemon is outstalling many pokemons, comes in handy, and counters many pokemon that rely on Toxic or WoW such as Sabeleye and Gliscor.
However I am currently running the Natural Cure + Rest set, as it is amazing status absorber. combined with Leech Seed and Protect, the pokemon is outstalling many pokemons, comes in handy, and counters many pokemon that rely on Toxic or WoW such as Sabeleye and Gliscor.
Just curious. Is there any viability to Venom Drench?
Seems like it might have interesting uses on a Toxic stall moveset
Seems like it might have interesting uses on a Toxic stall moveset
Any foe that would mind the stat drops from Venom Drench would probably kill you by the time you get around poisoning it (especially since you can no longer burn them); most things that would mind Toxic don't really care about getting their stats dropped. Oh, and that's 2 moves useless against (usually) the same opponent.
Better stick with a less situationally-dependant crippling move.
Well, compared to others it seems like I'mrunning a wierd but alright set
Trevant@Lum berry
Harvest
252 Hp/252Sp def/4Spe (I think)
Moves: Horn leech, leech seed, WoW, Destiny bond
Trevant has, surprisingly decent bulk already (Takes many SE attacks). Horn leech should be obvious because it is Trevants Stab grass attack that 2HKOs most things that it does SE damage to, and heals you. Leech seed is also on herebecause Iit heals you and damages the opponent at the same time, mixed with Horn leech and you are pretty bulky. Destiny bond is funny, since you usally go last anyways and can usally take a hit, not set up sweeper are scared that they will kill you and will often switch, allowingyou to get leech seed up or toss a WoW at something for free. WoW (Will-o-Whisp) burns the opposing pokemon ruducing thier attack by half, and doing 1/8th damage each turn
I am only in the 1400-1500's right now tho so.....this set might not be that great.
Trevant@Lum berry
Harvest
252 Hp/252Sp def/4Spe (I think)
Moves: Horn leech, leech seed, WoW, Destiny bond
Trevant has, surprisingly decent bulk already (Takes many SE attacks). Horn leech should be obvious because it is Trevants Stab grass attack that 2HKOs most things that it does SE damage to, and heals you. Leech seed is also on herebecause Iit heals you and damages the opponent at the same time, mixed with Horn leech and you are pretty bulky. Destiny bond is funny, since you usally go last anyways and can usally take a hit, not set up sweeper are scared that they will kill you and will often switch, allowingyou to get leech seed up or toss a WoW at something for free. WoW (Will-o-Whisp) burns the opposing pokemon ruducing thier attack by half, and doing 1/8th damage each turn
I am only in the 1400-1500's right now tho so.....this set might not be that great.
Makes sense!
Thanks a lot for the analysis.
Shouldn't the sets running leech seed not invest in HP, so as to maximize health gain?
You don't gain any more health by having less HP, just a higher proportion of your total health which is pretty much irrelevant.
Well, if you do 252 in both defense and special defense as opposed to 252 in hp and 252 in special defense, your hp will be lower, and you wouldn't be able to tank special hits as well, but you could tank physical hits far better. With leech seed, then 1/8th of your opponents HP restores a greater proportion of your max hp, relative to if you had 252 in hp. sounds good to me
Well yeah but as you say, your overall bulk is lower so it'd hardly a good trade off. You never see Ferrothorn running less than maximum HP for example.
Your point would be more valid with Pain Split but even with that I'd prefer maximum HP unless your HP was already high compared to your defenses (which it isn't on pokes like Rotom and Dusclops).
No, this isn't a good idea at all. Trevenant should almost never run a set without any form of recovery outside Leftovers and Leech Seed. If you're not using Harvest or Natural Cure with Lum, Sitrus, or Rest, you just have an inferior Gourgeist.
My point is that you shouldn't need to maximize Leech Seed recovery. Trevenant has far better means of restoring HP, so just run 252 HP EVs.
So um, I was always a fan of trevenant, just because it looks cool and stuff. But it's also pretty decent. And I've found that heatran pairs really well with trevenant. They cover each others weaknesses perfectly. (with the exception of dark and ghost). Since both are special defense-mons, you'll need a physically bulky pokemon. So anyways, here's the set I run.
Trevenant@sitrus
Ability-Harvest
EV's: 252 hp 252 special defense 4 Attack
Careful(?) nature (the thing with +Sp.Def -Sp.Atk)
-leech seed
-will-o-wisp
-horn leech
-protect
I'm almost certain that someone has posted this, but I really don't want to go through and read everything. It's a fairly standard set. With max defensive investments, it takes special hits for about 70% from most moderate special attackers like greninja and starmie(after leech seed and sitrus berry, you're most likely going to be in a range where you can live yet another ice beam) But I'm confused, why are you guys worried more about dark pulse from greninja than you are about ice beam from greninja? Ice beam has a higher base power, can I get an explanation?
Trevenant@sitrus
Ability-Harvest
EV's: 252 hp 252 special defense 4 Attack
Careful(?) nature (the thing with +Sp.Def -Sp.Atk)
-leech seed
-will-o-wisp
-horn leech
-protect
I'm almost certain that someone has posted this, but I really don't want to go through and read everything. It's a fairly standard set. With max defensive investments, it takes special hits for about 70% from most moderate special attackers like greninja and starmie(after leech seed and sitrus berry, you're most likely going to be in a range where you can live yet another ice beam) But I'm confused, why are you guys worried more about dark pulse from greninja than you are about ice beam from greninja? Ice beam has a higher base power, can I get an explanation?
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I find I prefer running trevenant defensively just because its weaknesses (ice,fire,ghost, dark, bug, flying) are primarily specially based, and the attacks flying attacks coming from taking lame you wouldn't stay in on anyway, and u-turn (the only common physical bug move) is easily tanked.
Not to say specially defensive isn't viable but I'm curious as to how you guys work with that with rampant ice beams and mega y zard and fire coverage. I tried a special trevenant and it just died too often to special attacks I thought it would wall.
Not to say specially defensive isn't viable but I'm curious as to how you guys work with that with rampant ice beams and mega y zard and fire coverage. I tried a special trevenant and it just died too often to special attacks I thought it would wall.
This. As it has been shown but never understood...if you want a defensive pogeymon you use Gourgeist (all but supersized outspeed Trev to WoW if Tree doesnt have natural cure or rest); if you want a stall pogeymon (yes it is stall not defensive) use Trev since it has much better overall recovery (Harvest, Lum/Sitrus, HornLeech, LeechSeed, Rest).
I use an offensive trev on showdown and even then I use maxHP with Harvest/Lum/Rest. Why would you put evs in defenses when they are mediocre? Whether offensive or stall maxHP is always best if not you are just wastib your haunted tree
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