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Trick Room

Discussion in 'Dream World' started by Harsha, Apr 5, 2012.

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  1. Harsha

    Harsha
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    Trick Room

    [​IMG]

    Description (from Bulbapedia)
    We should all know what Trick Room is and what it does. However, it's rarely seen in the Dream World metagame, even when Speed is probably the defining part of this metagame. What do you think about it? Should people use Trick Room more? I personally have been screwed over by Trick Room multiple times, especially when I only have Excadrill and another fast sweeper left, as Reuniclus is one of the most powerful Pokemon out there, despite its lack of Speed. Furthermore, it isn't limited to using Hidden Power Fire or another Hidden Power because it already OHKOes Genesect with Focus Blast. Here is the set I am talking about:

    [​IMG]
    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def | 0 Spe
    Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
    - Trick Room
    - Psychic / Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    This Reuniclus pretty much wrecks in a metagame that runs rampant with Excadrill, Tyranitar, Genesect, Blaziken, Keldeo, and other Speed demons. The idea is quite simple, abuse Life Orb + Magic Guard and the power granted by using Trick Room on turn one and sweeping right after that. Psychic and Psyshock are reliable STAB moves, and though Psyshock is less powerful, it hits CM Keldeo harder. Focus Blast deals massive damage to any resists, and Shadow Ball provides perfect Ghost / Fighting coverage. Basically, Reuniclus has all the tools it really needs to sweep well in the Dream World metagame.

    There are of course many other viable users of Trick Room out there. What do you guys think? Is this a strategy that can only be relegated to standard play, or is it perfect for Dream World? Also, what users of Trick Room do you guys find viable? Go forth and discuss!
  2. I AM BATMAN LOL

    I AM BATMAN LOL

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    I did quite well with a trick room team. I used the TR Reuniclus + ChoiceBand Conkeldurr combo and to my surprise it worked very well. I'll see if I can post an importable when I get home.
    Other members of my team included Jellicent and...I don't remember :(
    i'll edit when i find the team xD
  3. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Why is Reuniculus ever running Shadow Ball. You NEED HP Fire in this meta
  4. V0x

    V0x I stay out too late
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    The problems I have are that you only get 5 turns: 4 to attack with a setter or 3 if you switch, which simply is not enough. Sure there are a ton of fast things, but the meta lacks Pokemon that can OHKO /any/ of them, which means you'll end up with a KO'd or heavily damaged Trick Room sweeper with little use outside of Trick Room. As the match progresses, your setters will inevitably get weaker, meaning the negative priority of TR is a huge disadvantage.

    I think the best bet with Trick Room is a partial TR team, where you have either a couple of self sustaining Pokemon or a small core of bulky attackers that didn't rely on Speed in the first place. On that note, what is a good individual setter (ie Reuniclus)? It needs good offensive capability--coverage moreso than power IMO. Chandelure I could see working because it can set up on weak moves, but it lacks a bit of coverage. What else is a good setter beside Reuniclus though?
  5. NixHex

    NixHex No excuses
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    As the OP stated, Focus Blast handily takes care of Genesect, and 2HKOes Ferrothorn at most. Shadow Ball takes care of Latios and Latias, as well as dealing max damage to Chandelure and Jellicent. Without a stat boost, Reuniclus NEEDS that super effective damage. Ironically enough, I was most adamant about HP Fire slashed before Shadow Ball on the analysis, but I may just switch it back.
  6. Harsha

    Harsha
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    Agreeing with your point V0x, you MUST have Speed on a Trick Room team for it to function. The best Trick Room teams are not based around Trick Room, in my opinion. I generally prefer using one or two Trick Room sweepers for the late-game, and having things punch holes in the early game. Reuniclus stood out to me, but Chandelure does seem interesting. I'll be sure to experiment with it!
  7. ala

    ala
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    Bronzong makes for a great offensive trick roomer in this meta, since Excadrill is everywhere so it makes for an easy set up. I haven't used it myself, but have been swept a couple of times by it so I can attest to its power. I'd probably use something like Trick Room, Gyro Ball, Earthquake, HP Fire.
  8. Sayonara

    Sayonara don't forget

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    Brave-natured Bronzong with 0 Speed IVs do indeed give me headaches. A 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Atk variant can even 2HKO the standard 252 Spe + Jolly Garchomp with Gyro Ball. Here are a few calcs. (The Gyro Ball ones assume that the opponent is running a positive speed nature and 252 Spe EVs.

    252 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball vs 4 HP/0 Def Garchomp: 53.91% - 63.69% (2HKO)
    252 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball vs 4 HP/0 Def Espeon: 106.99% - 126.1% (OHKO)
    252 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs 4 HP/0 Def Excadrill: 86.19% - 101.66% (12.5% OHKO)
    252 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs 0 HP/0 Def Chandelure: 86.59% - 101.92% (OHKO with SR support)
    4 SpAtk Bronzong Hidden Power Fire vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Genesect: 62.19% - 73.5% (2HKO)
  9. Calm Pokemaster

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    As V0x said, running teams completely based on Trick Room is rather ineffective as you simply don't get enough turns for multiple slow threats to have any chance of pulling off a sweep. A solitary TR sweeper such as Reuniclus - with maybe another bulky TR mon like the Bronzong set which Expert Physics mentioned above - should be used as an ace-in-the-sleeve of sorts, revealing TR only when threats to it are gone.

    A fast sweeper such as Blaziken can help deal with stuff like CB Tyranitar and Scizor that can spoil Reuniclus's fun if they get in before Reuniclus can set up TR, on a well-timed double switch for instance. I am not exactly sold on Chandelure as a TR user, however - it's much, much better off with Scarf or SubCM.
  10. Tobes

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    [​IMG]
    Chandelure @ Life Orb
    Shadow Tag
    Quiet 232/0/8/252/16/0
    - Trick Room
    - Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fighting / Energy Ball

    Chandelure can be quite an effective Trick Room sweeper. It's just slow enough that it outpaces a lot of common Pokemon under Trick Room, and a Life Orb really pumps up its already amazing Special Attack to astounding levels. You'd be shocked at the difference in power between this and Choice Scarf Chandelure. It also performs superbly against Ferrothorn and Genesect, two problematic Pokemon for Trick Room teams to deal with. These EVs might seem a bit odd, but they serve a purpose. 232 HP EVs place Chandelure's HP at 319, pumping up its bulk by quite a bit while reducing Life Orb recoil by 1 point when compared to 323 HP at 248 EV investment. Special Attack is of course maximixed, and the rest of the EVs are distributed in the defenses, with more investment in Special Defense to prevent Genesect from getting a Special Attack boost. Fire Blast is preferred due to its monstrous power, but on the other hand there are times that you really don't want to miss against something like Genesect. Shadow Ball doesn't really need explaining, so I'll skip to the last slot: Hidden Power Ice helps quite a bit agaisnt Dragonite and Garchomp, while Hidden Power Fighting maims Tyranitar and Heatran. You're going to have a hard time against Tar either way though. Energy Ball is useful against Keldeo, Politoed, Manaphy, etc.

    One of the very important things to note about this set: It prevents one of the problems that plagues Trick Room teams; that is to say, it stops switching in most cases. Why is this important? For one, it makes it far easier to set up Trick Room initially. But the other important thing is that it prevents the opponent from switching around to appropriate resists, eating up Trick Room turns, which is something Trick Room teams absolutely hate given their very narrow windows of opportunity. This set also helps to deal with stall (an absolute nightmare of a match-up for Trick Room teams) to a certain extent, but it is completely unable to get past Blissey and will eventually die from Life Orb recoil, entry hazards, etc.

    This set can even function as a stand-alone Trick Room sweeper on normal teams, ideally when partnered with a Trick user who can lock an opponent into a disadvantageous move by giving them a Chocie Scarf. It should also be noted that this set becomes much less functional with rain in play, so if your team has no weather-inducer Energy Ball becomes a much more appealing option.
  11. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    While it's probably outclassed as a Trick Room user by Reuniclus, Meloetta can also set up Trick Room, and base 90 Speed is probably JUST low enough for her to be able to make good use of it.

    Meloetta @ Life Orb
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA, IVs: 0 Spe
    Nature: Quiet
    - Trick Room
    - Hyper Voice
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast

    Meloetta is cool in the fact that she gets powerful special Normal-STAB, which is kind of rare, and relatively good in the current metagame, IMO.
  12. Showsni

    Showsni

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    How about Victini? Usually, it's too fast to function under Trick Room, but every time you use V-Create you slow yourself down. It's typing lets its do things like resist both of Blaziken's STABs, and it might catch an opponent off guard if it Trick Rooms when they were expecting something else.
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