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BW RU Turning Into Black And White [Peaked #1]

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by august, May 2, 2013.

  1. august

    august free the robots
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winnerwon the 5th Official Smogon Tournament

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    I have had this team for quite a while now and have finally decided to post it. Despite Stall being dead in RU during the Nidoqueen era, variations of this team peaked #1 in the last 2 Nidoqueen stages as well as the beginning of the current testing process after Queen moved up. Props to blarajan because he always helped me with this team and used it in the RU open (which he won). I wanted to use this in SPL but always decided against it at the last second. This team has churned out countless 200+ stall wars. If there is no way for me to beat something besides stalling it out, i will stall it out. The team has a grand total of 8 attacks (not counting Rapid Spin), 2 wishers, all forms of entry hazards, a ghost and a spinner so yeah i'd definitely consider it stall (and one of the most dedicated stall teams I have ever seen in RU for that matter). A little bit of team history and teambuilding process:

    THE ORIGINALS

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    This was the original team that I started with. Specially Defensive Regirock with Wish support was my dedicated Moltres counter and Stealth Rocker. I used Protect to scout stuff and gain lefties recovery. Considering Cryogonal was basically the only Rapid Spinner, I was stuck using him... Although I used Frost Breath (blaras idea) to beat Lilligant + Sigilyphs easier without having to use Haze. Roselia was the Spiker and Sceptile counter while Gardevoir easily countered Nidoqueen, spread burns, and passed Wishes. 260 Speed restalk Rotom was chosen to spinblock Kabutops. Quagsire helped vs random stat uppers and spread Toxic.

    Some downfalls to this team: lack of Heal Beller. SD Sawsbuck. This was the version of the team Blara used in RU open (although Moltres always burned his Regirock with FBlast :'( )

    When I eventually revamped the team right around spl, I decided to replace Quagsire with Alomomola after realizing how bulky it was in some of my ladder matches. At the same time I discovered (stole) Foul Play Spiritomb and decided to give that a shot over Rotom. With the addition of a new Wisher, I changed Gardevoir to Musharna for Heal Bell and changed Roselia to a physically defensive set to handle Crawdaunt since I removed Quagsire. Regirock stayed the same.

    Although I liked this version a lot, i had some awful CB Aggron issues and overall I felt like my core could be broken too easily via smart playing so i went back to the drawing board.

    I decided it was about time to replace Regirock with Steelix to alleviate my CB Aggron troubles. With this switch though I was making myself much weaker to Moltres so I had to find to replace Musharna. I replaced Musharna with Magic Coat Lunatone (which was hilarious to beat Smeargle teams) and moved Aromatherapy onto Roselia. This team was good but was very vulernable to Nidoqueen / Moltres + Pursuit. I eventually changed Lunatone to Specially Defensive Protect Slowking.

    The last switch that I made was changing Slowking to Lickilicky. This allowed me to use Heal Bell and freed up a moveslot on Roselia. This also solved my massive weakness to Lilligant.

    OK i lied that wasn't the last switch because I changed Licki to Clefable. I experimented with some last slot moves on Roselia and eventually decided on Toxic Spikes.

    So if you're too lazy to read that, heres the team!!!


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    [​IMG] **** Exodus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Earthquake
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball

    Steelix is a pretty essential stall staple. Steelix prevents me from getting destroyed by the likes of Choice Band Escavalier and Aggron, which I had considerable problems with on some earlier versions where i used Stealth Rock Protect Regirock. Steelix is one of the most consistent Stealth Rockers in the tier, being able to survive almost ANY physical hit and set up Stealth Rock. He's also a boss at phazing those annoying Substitute Calm Mind Uxies, since a boosted Psyshock does like 8% :toast: Dual wish passing makes Steelix even better because it never fucking dies. Steelix is generally my dedicated lead because most of the time i'm able to easily get Stealth Rock up while taking under 50% and the other times I can just switch out to a hard counter (if something like Moltres leads). Sturdy can come in handy vs stuff like Shell Smash Omastar and Choice Specs Typhlosion that can be big pains in the ass with no Toxic Spikes down.

    [​IMG] **** Jonah @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Toxic
    - Scald
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Easily the heart (eheheh) and soul of this team. There are very few physical threats that Alomomola cannot wall in RU. This is my answer to Feraligatr, Entei, Emboar, Druddigon, Pinsir, and pretty much any other physical threat that you can name. I decided to try Alomomola on stall after losing to a Wish Protect Toxic Alomomola because my Choice Band Druddigon Outrage was failing to 2HKO it and I have never once thought of replacing it since. I personally believe that Alomomola functions much better than Poliwrath on stall, especially considering I have Steelix to phaze and can beat Crawdaunt between Toxic Spikes and Roselia. Another reason that Alomomola is so good is Regenerator + Wish + Massive HP. This means that Alo is able to come into many physical attacks with impunity, set up a Wish and pass it to a team mate and still be at 100% thanks to Regenerator. Alomomola is the primary Wisher for my dual Wisher core and has been on the team for quite some time now. Scald is chosen over Waterfall because I really love the burn chance against Durant (who is annoying) and the added chance to burn Escavalier is quite lovely. Most of the times it doesnt interfere (ie: burning something i want to Toxic) since any form of secondary damage is alright with me. This walls OTR Slowking (and pretty much any Slowking variant) quite easily, especially with a Heal Beller in the wings incase i take on status in the process.

    [​IMG] **** Tessellate @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Ice Beam
    - Haze
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin

    To be completely honest i kinda really hate this pokemon but i need a Rapid Spinner that doesn't suck and to be quite frank Sandslash is even worse and Kabutops is redundant and doesn't really fit. I guess its cool that Cryogonal matches up pretty well against Hail teams, being able to take Blizzards from Glaceon and co and being one of my only shots at beating Sub Split Rotom-fridge. After Nidoqueen moved up I took my EVs out of Speed and tossed them into Special Defense because even the smallest difference in SpD can be the difference between me beating Lilligant or losing to it. I was running Toxic on this over Haze but i think its definitely more important for me to beat last mon Calm Minders like Tomb. Speaking of Spiritomb thats what the Defense EVs are for. With Toxic Spikes down I can easily stall out any non Rest Spiritomb variants and just come in later and spin on something slower, even if it means getting KOed because honestly besides spinning Cryo doesn't really do too much for me.

    [​IMG] **** Tiny Dancer @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Giga Drain
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Spikes

    One of the 2 pokemon that has been a staple on this team since its creation. The set however has changed a lot. With Nidoqueen gone, I am free to run Toxic Spikes. I personally believe that Toxic Spikes are incredible in RU, and have helped me win many games. The more common Poison-types in the tier such as Amoongus and Qwilfish are both fodder for setting up 3 layers of normal Spikes so i dont see that as too much of a problem. Physical Defense Roselia may seem odd for this team at first, but it works well. It helps prevent me from getting smacked by DD Crawdaunt as i mentioned previously (this lives +1 Crunch 100% of the time and usually after SR) and also means I can Spike in front of Fighting-types if i really want to without having to worry too much. You may think I am crazy for choosing to forego Natural Cure Rest, but with 2 Wishers i find it kinda redundant. HP Fire stops Durant from trying to set up in front of me and also lets me pick off weakened Escavalier.

    [​IMG] **** Champ @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Foul Play
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Shamelessly ripped this set from SilentVerse and have never looked back since. Foul Play Spiritomb is excellent for countering stat boosters such as Gallade that could be otherwise troublesome. My main problem with Spiritomb before switching to this set was that my only way of harming things was generally Will-O-Wisp, attacks like Shadow Sneak and Pursuit are so weak that its almost pointless to use them. Foul Play on the other hand OHKOs CB Entei after Stealth Rock and does hefty amounts of damage to Druddigon and OHKOs most anything trying to boost in my face. So as i mentioned previously i had Restalk Rotom on this team at one point with enough speed to beat Kabutops. This was cool for spinblocking vs stuff like Sandslash + tops if predicted correctly but still struggled vs Cryo. Eventually i came to the conclusion that it is much better to be able to 100% spinblock vs defensive teams that use Cryogonal than it is vs offensive teams with Kabutops. Generally offensive teams wont last as long and keeping Spikes and Stealth Rock down just expedites the process. For defensive teams on the other hand, i absolutely NEED to keep spikes and stealth rock down to keep an advantage and eventually wins, however long it may take. Spiritomb is the closest thing you will find to 100% spinblocking Cryo, Will-O-Wisp + Stealth Rock + Foul Play + Pressure is almost always enough to keep it from spinning. Pressure in general is really useful for outstalling stuff (CP Sigilyph ladder noobs stand no chance)

    [​IMG] **** Stella @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Seismic Toss
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Heal Bell

    The last pokemon that I added after having a lot of random stuff in this slot (Musharna, Lunatone, Lickilicky, Protect Slowking to name a few). Although I really missed Licki at times (especially vs Lilligant ;__;) this makes me overall less weak to Spike-stacking teams thanks to Magic Guard and being able to pass Wishes pretty easily. Its also nice to have a Heal Beller that doesn't care about getting Toxiced by Sub Roost Moltres. Speaking of Sub Roost Moltres my way of beating it is to outstall Flamethrower PP with Clefable + Spiritomb and then get Steelix in to phaze it out. Its a pretty ghetto way of doing it but i've had to do it many times... Fable is definitely the most replaceable member of this team but at the same time it ties together a LOT of loose ends and so far to me seems to be the best choice.



    So some problems... ill edit this more later but Moltres can be a bitch and Lilligant too... Fire-types are annoying with no SR but pretty much anything can be beaten if you play well!!!
    Zebraiken, Molk, Pocket and 2 others like this.
  2. Friar

    Friar

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    Hey august nice team! There are very few holes, just thought I'd throw an idea out.

    SpD Altaria over Clefable seems like a cool idea. It doesn't totally cover your Moltres weakness, as Hurricane still smacks you around, but Fire Blast is at least slightly more manageable. It also checks HP Fire Lilligant well, while Rock can be handled by Roselia decently (maybe consider Toxic > HP Fire or even TSpikes, this can also hit Moltres switching in), and Ice is Cyrogonal bait. Altaria also does a good job checking mixed sweepers such as Emboar and Sceptile that could be a big problem. Roost / Dragon Claw or Pulse / Heal Bell are also fairly needed, and I think you have two good options for the last slot. Roar gives you another phazer which is always good, but I'd be really interested in how Dragon Dance would work out. It allows you some offense against other defensive teams, and gives you an option to beat opposing non-Ice Beam Clefable. Your Heal Beller would still not care about SubRoost Moltres Toxic due to Natural Cure .

    Obviously this suggestion makes you weaker to some threats (Moltres) if SR is up, but plugs some holes and gives you some offense. If you aren't comfortable with this change, I'd consider Waterfall and a specially defensive spread on Alomomola to check MixBoar and get a Toxic on Moltres.

    Good luck with the team!
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    SD Kabutops with Waterfall seems very problematic, althouh idk how many of them use it. It easily sets up on Cryogonal and Clefable, and OHKOes everything but Alomomola, which is 2HKOed by Stone Edgew and can only use Scald once and hope it gets the burn.

    Nice stall team, just saw this and i was wondering how you deal with Kabu...
  4. august

    august free the robots
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winnerwon the 5th Official Smogon Tournament

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    Friar- hmm certainly an interesting suggestion that i will have to try out. Sadly I think that it makes me a bit weaker to spikestack teams that run rest tomb, but dd heal bell certainly gives me a nice win condition!

    alexwolf - well sd waterfall kabutops is pretty non existent outside of rain, but if i can get toxic spikes down then its really easy to handle and toxic protect alomomola + steelix can generally beat it since toxic + life orb means its wearing itself down quite quickly (and mola has regenerator). normal SD tops (spin se ajet sd) is handled well enough by steelix and i have no problem letting it take 50ish % since i have 2 wish passers anyway

    thanks for the feedback so far guys!
  5. VN.

    VN. the birds pt. 1
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    cool team august i should be studying for sat but whatever

    anyways I agree Moltres is a total BITCH for this team, altohuh I mean you can slap a Slowking on here over Alomol and slap a Tangrowth or whatever to conversely replace Clefable or something like that but really any change at this stage in the change will probably open you up to something else or reduce the team's functionality, it's really just down to personal preference, same with Roselia, I'd probably argue that Sleep Powder>HP Fire since you can stop shit like Crustle Ferroseed and friends from early spiking and you already have stuff for Escavalier while Rest is also useful for the quick heal on an otherwise frail pkmn but again personal preference haha

    anyways this team wrecks and this rate isn't even one but I just felt the need to comment on it heheh :toast:

    EDIT: Ahh I don't know where I got that from then lol actually its probably because I had Taunt Misdreavus on the same Roselia team lol
  6. Slory

    Slory

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    The biggest problem of this team are Special Fire-types like Choice Specs Typhlosion, Magmortar or Moltres. To solve this problem without changing too much the team, the best option would be use Regirock > Steelix, but like you said using it, you will have troubles with CB Aggron and CB Escavalier. Hidden Power Fire Lilligant is another painfully threat to play around, and more if you're using Hidden Power Fire > Sludge Bomb on Roselia. HC Durant is another troublesome mon, since it can come on Cryo /Clefable without problems and proceed to set up. After a single HC, Durant is capable of 2HKOes Alomomola and OHKOes Steelix with LO. Still, with some smart plays and the fact that Alomomola can easily 2HKOes it with Scald you can play around it. But for playing much more comfortably against it and others like SD Sceptile or SD Kabutops with Aqua Jet, I think would be better change the Steelix's Evs Spread to something like 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SDef. Still you arent 3HKOed by +1 Psychic from standard SubCM Uxie, and thinking you have Specially Defensive Spiritomb, you won't worry too much about it and others Psychic-types like Mesprit. With this Evs Spread, Durant has any chance to OHKO you at full health, SD Sceptile has any chance to 2HKO you with +2 EQ and you always can take 2 Aqua Jets from +2 Tops w/ LO even if there are 1 one layer of Spikes. Its probably a personal option, but I think its much more optimal for this team. Also this team has some troubles against some Spike-stacking teams that can prevent you from spinning with constantly pressure or with Spiritomb, but that's a problem that any Stall team has...

    At all pretty good team, I've seen it in action few times and I liked it so much! Ludvisc :toast:

    @Honus: Roselia can't use Spikes + Sleep Powder in the same moveset, because its illegal combination :<
  7. Roxbury1990

    Roxbury1990

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    The fact that you named one of your pokes Tiny Dancer makes you awesome.
  8. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    Really solid team august-also foul play tomb is indeed godly.

    I think that if you have issues with fire types, such as typhlosion, magmortar, moltres and to an extent lilligant(it can at least phaze it and gives you good sleep fodder with sleep talk)you could try munchlax over clefable. I know munchlax is absolutely awful most of the time, but I remember molk using it with mola and iirc it acually worked quite well, seeing as wish support gave it a good source of recovery. Ik you are then much weaker to offensive teams with smeargle, and you also lose out on wish and heal bell support which is pretty huge. Just a thought :)
  9. New Breed

    New Breed BIG MONEY
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    This is indeed an extremely good team August, I believe I have an earlier version of this team that had Aromatherapy > Tspikes on Roselia and Munchlax > Clefable but once Munchlax has rested it's extremely easy to wear down and Roselia certainly isnt the most reliable heal beal user.

    Im quite surprised no one has mention this yet but Specially Defensive Flareon could work decently well over Clefable, it can check both Magmortar and Typhlosion, is semi reliable against Moltres with SR off the field and also offers Wish + Heal Bell, just something to consider I guess since Nidoqueen is gone.

    Anyway this is great RMT and it's nice to see a good Stall team coming out of the Nidoqueen meta :]
  10. august

    august free the robots
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winnerwon the 5th Official Smogon Tournament

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    thanks for the feedback everyone :toast:

    honus - hmmmm i do love slowking (especially sdef protect) on this team but it opens up a really big weakness to lilligant ;-; i think perhaps if i throw some SDef on alomomola i might be able to avoid choice specs fire blast 2hkos (probably not but ill see how much it takes) which would alleviate the fire pkmn weakness except moltr..

    slory - man that steelix ev spread looks good, ill have to give it a shot x) only thing i'm hesitant about is losing out on being able to take a blizzard from stuff like rotom-f when i need to but i still think i'll change to that

    roxbury - :)

    silvershadow - hmm ill give munchlax a shot and then put aromatherapy back on roserade

    new breed - i like sdef flareon a lot but considering i think cryo is a shit spinner im not sure how flareon would do because it makes me much weaker to spikestack teams BUT ill try it :toast:

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