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Ubers Survivor

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Dracoyoshi8, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    [​IMG]

    While I was unclogging the toilet, I had a sudden idea. What if there was a contest for Pokemon to determine, in a range of bizarre scenarios and popularity, who would be determined to be the most versatile and powerful Pokemon in the Uber tier? So, I drafted up an idea, picked the contestants and, without further adieu, I present to you...

    The Ubers Survivor Challenge


    • How this will work: The Survivor Challenge consists of three parts: Scenario, Deliberation, and Elimination.

      Step 1. Scenario - During this process, a scenario, or "challenge", is presented. The community must then determine which Pokemon out of the participants would be most likely to complete the scenario with the most success. There will be a vote to decide who ultimately wins. This Pokemon is granted immunity during the Elimination round.
      Step 2. Deliberation - During this stage, the community discusses which Pokemon should be, metaphorically, voted off the island. When deciding, look at: the Pokemon's traits, roles in the metagame and impact on the metagame. The goal is not to vote your least favorite off the island, but to preserve the Pokemon that have the most competitive value.
      Step 3. Elimination - The final stage, this is where voting occurs and the Pokemon is voted off the island and is out of the competition. The winner of the Scenario Round is granted immunity until there is two Pokemon remaining. The Pokemon with the most votes is eliminated, and then the process starts over.

    The winner of the contest gets a place in everlasting glory and a million PokeDollars so they can buy their own bicycle.

    The Eight Contestants:
    [​IMG]
    MEWTWO
    First Introduced: Pokemon Red and Green
    Typing: Psychic
    Fun Fact: Only Pokemon to be Uber for all five generations.
    [​IMG]
    DIALGA
    First Introduced: Pokemon Diamond and Pearl
    Typing: Dragon/Steel
    Fun Fact: Has the highest Special Attack of all Steel-types.
    [​IMG]
    ZEKROM
    First Introduced: Pokemon Black and White
    Typing: Dragon/Electric
    Fun Fact: Cannot learn any Fire-type attacks, which really blows.
    [​IMG]
    HO-OH
    First Introduced: Pokemon Gold and Silver
    Typing: Fire/Flying
    Fun Fact: Only Uber who is 4x weak to Stealth Rock.
    [​IMG]
    MANAPHY
    First Introduced: Pokemon Ranger (as an egg)
    Typing: Water
    Fun Fact: Can breed with Ditto to produce an NU Pokemon, Phione.
    [​IMG]
    EXCADRILL
    First Introduced: Pokemon Black and White
    Typing: Ground/Steel
    Fun Fact: Only non-legendary contestant!
    [​IMG]
    GROUDON
    First Introduced: Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire
    Typing: Ground
    Fun Fact: Heaviest Pokemon to date.
    [​IMG]
    GIRATINA-O
    First Introduced: Pokemon Platinum
    Typing: Dragon/Ghost
    Fun Fact: Only Uber to have Levitate in Gen V.

    SCENARIO ONE:
    We've all seen it happen. The battle is at 6-1. All hope seems lost for the one side, but they miraculously pull off a sweep or outstall their opponent's entire team with their last Pokemon, resulting in a 1-0! Which Pokemon is likely to pull off that 1-0 victory?

    Voting for the winner of this scenario begins at 6:00 PM EST this Thursday. Please discuss who is most likely to succeed!

    HAVE FUN!!!!
  2. AfroThunderRule

    AfroThunderRule *yawn* ez
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    We don't need a silly game to tell me the most versatile and powerful Pokemon in the tier (Arceus, which some reason isn't even a contestant. D:)

    Also as for your scenario it really depends on the environment. Is it raining, is there sand? >.> But, I guess out of those 8, the most likely that would come back from a 6-1 disadvantage would be Mewtwo? Should be Arceus if he was allowed here. :s

    Edit: Am I even doing this right?
  3. jackm

    jackm

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    Well, I agree that Arceus should be in, but I'll contribute anyways. Sounds like the kind of pointless fun that the Ubers forum needs.

    First of all, the only Pokemon that can pull off a legitimate boosting sweep of this selection are Mewtwo, Manaphy, Excadrill, Groudon, and maybe Zekrom. I'll talk about the other three a little later.

    Because the contest is to determine which of the Pokemon is most likely to pull off the sweep, Manaphy and Excadrill have to be called into question. Their dependence on weather makes them unlikely (relatively speaking) to endgame sweep, especially considering your opponent probably has a weather inducer in one of their 6 slots, and there's a decent chance that it's not yours. This leaves us with Mewtwo, Groudon, and Zekrom. Zekrom lacks the ability to boost its speed, which, compounded by its inherent lack of speed, means that it's probably not going to sweep. As for Mewtwo vs. Groudon, I'd say Mewtwo is superior; Groudon has to either run Double Dance with Earthquake + 1 coverage move or run Rock Polish with Earthquake and 2 coverage moves. With one coverage move, Groudon will always be countered by Giratina or Lugia, depending on the move. Even with two coverage moves, it can't hit everything for enough (Stone Edge+Dragon Claw is walled by Skarmory, Stone Edge+Fire Punch is walled by Giratina, Dragon Claw+Fire Punch is walled by Lugia). Mewtwo can hit everything for an enormous amount of damage with one setup move, and that's all it needs due to its inherent speed.

    As for Ho-oh, Dialga, and Giratina-O, I'm torn. I'd love to say Ho-oh, but its dependence on weather and spin support hurt its chances. It's probably not Giratina-O (unless you're running a Tailwind set) just due to a lack of power and strong coverage. Dialga, while slow, hits hard and between Dragon Pulse, Fire Blast, and Thunder it can take down a lot of threats. Its bulk helps it as well, allowing it to run a status move like Thunder Wave in the third slot to take a hit and cripple the opponent.

    Because of the reasons stated above, I'd say that for this scenario Mewtwo wins, and Giratina-O/Excadrill loses.
  4. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    assuming the competence of the opposing teams teambuilding skill the prevalence of scarf genesect or at least having some form of mewtwo check can be assumed; moreso than having a proper DD groudon check at any rate. giratina-o, zekrom, dialga, ho-oh, excadrill are all immediately discounted for the following reasons (again, under the assumption of a competent team)

    giratina-o - forced out by any faster dragon

    zekrom - same again, if it is scarf it isn't too have to have a single resist to either electric or dragon; although, it is an unlikely, but possible, scenario wherein the opposing team has a single or multiple weakened electric resists (more likely than dragon)

    dialga - no reliable recovery or boosting, would be very hard pressed to sweep a team.

    ho-oh - can wallbreak well but of 6 pokemon it is highly likely that at least one of them can check ho-oh competently, if not just throw offense at it until it dies. if there's rain then ho-oh will almost never sweep a team, there's a forseeable problem for sun if they don't have a proper non-phaze reliant ho-oh check but they can just pp stall if they have phys.def giratina.

    excadrill - unless you're facing an opposing poorly built sand team this thing isn't going to sweep in sun or rain.

    now, groudon, while still unlikely, i think faces the best chance because of how lethal double dance groudon is and how, out of this list, it is the most likely to have a chance of killing 6 pokemon in a row at +2 / +2.

    manaphy is the second best choice, despite being a pretty terrible pokemon, it blasts through ferrothorn and teams without cm latias might be hard pressed to take it down fast enough (genesect explosion can also fail against phys.def cm manaphy).
  5. polop

    polop
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    Arceus is the most versatile, but that doesn't mean it performs every niche better then anything else. If your looking for a solid user of Spikes for a stall team you don't turn to Arceus. Arceus doesn't get Rapid Spin. Arceus can't spam STAB Rain-boosted Specs boosted Water Spouts. Arceus doesn't get Drought and Drizzle for weather support. Even in terms for the best Calm Minder in the game it faces competition from the Lati twins for certain sets. If we split up Arceus by types then we even more so limit its versatility.

    For this scenario I am tempted to say that Extremekilller and CM Ghost Arceus might actually be the best mons for this job. Arceus-Dark also might be interesting seeing as its whole purpose is to 6-0 stall teams lacking a win condition, but they aren't options so whatever.

    I'm actually tempted to say Groudon wins in this scenario. Unlike Mewtwo the thing actually has the bulk to setup and its coverage isn't reliant on weather moves. Anyone whose used Mewtwo knows how easily it can get revenge-killed... Groudon can actually deal severe damage if enough hazards are set up. Unlike the other mons, Groudon is also the only Pokemon who gets access to a permanent speed boosting move in Rock Polish, meaning its the one who will have the best chance of avoiding getting revenge-killed. Mewtwo has to run Choice Scarf to pair its speed problems or minimize the risk of getting Revenge-killed, in which case it locks itself into a move and probably won't sweep since the enemy can then switch into a resist. If the other team is running a Kyogre or Groudon, there's no way Excadril's going to sweep. Manaphy is reliant on rain for sweeping, and the unfortunate part is that it gets beat by pokemon common on rain teams and sun teams. Latias just Thunders the thing and it fits perfectly into both teams... it can't even set up against sun / sand teams while Rain teams generally pack something like a Kyogre with Thunder which makes Manaphy's life miserable. Giratina-o and Dialga have methods of pairing up their speed with Tailwind and Trick Room, but their Speed boost doesn't last for the 6 turns needed to take down the rest of the team. I was tempted to choose Ho-oh but then I realized if the other team had a Kyogre its effectiveness was neutered. If they had a Groudon or Tyranitar it could Stone Edge the thing into oblivion. It gets a method of boosting its Speed in Flame Charge but its reliant on weather which makes it questionable, to me at least. Zekrom lacks a way to boost speed and must rely on using a Choice Scarf to sweep and / or minimize the risk of being revenge-killed. Since its locked into a move the opponent may fodder a mon and bring in a faster Choice Scarf user (ex: Palkia) or just switch to a resist and troll.

    Now Groudon is different. It may have dedicated counters in Giratina and Lugia, and they can try to counter it but lum berry variants can actually take advantage of Giratina's Will-o-wisp to set up a Swords Dance then beat it with an Earthquake the turn after while also blocking Lugia's Toxic. Reflect + Ice Beam Lugia are harsh but Groudon already has the bulk to tank an Ice Beam and it can set up Swords Dances on the turn Lugia Reflects to practically nullify the move. By using EdgeQuake coverage, it doesn't need to rely on a weather. Rock Polish's Speed boost is +2, meaning that combined with its physical bulk will mean it will be near impossible to revenge kill it (well barring stuff like Choice Scarf Skymin but then Groudon could run a Jolly nature...).

    My second choice is Mewtwo. Although I think it would have better luck stalling out the enemy team by going using Taunt / WoW / Light Screen or Psystrike / Recover since that makes it extremely hard to revenge (it lives Timid Soul Dew Latios Draco Meteor without Light Screen !_!). Ho-oh can stomp over it but I think it dies to Psystrike after Stealth Rock.
  6. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    forgot about BU dialga lol, that has a better shot than manaphy. (bu mewtwo ;o)
  7. ChrisTehAwesome

    ChrisTehAwesome

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    Out of the pokemon chosen, several have the potential to pull off devastating sweeps. The first question is the weather. Weather wars have raged in Ubers for as long as I've been playing pokemon, mostly between sun and rain. With this in mind, I think Excadrill has less sweeping potential than Ho-Oh or Manaphy, as it has the lowest chance to have its weather up at the end of the game, if playing a smart opponent.

    Mewtwo's power and versatility speaks for itself, as its counters are hiding somewhere in the Gen VI pokedex. Zekrom gets some flak for not being able to beat the more bulky steel types in the tier, but can still easily pull out a victory with the right set. Dialga has so many options it's ridiculous, and in the late game can be very strong. Groudon can run one of two boosting options, backed by his own weather support and some serious bulk.

    Out of all the contestants, I'd say Giratina-O has the least potential to pull out the victory, as even 120 attacking stats aren't titanic in this metagame, and his strongest special attacking option in Draco Meteor doesn't leave room for things living with a smidgen, as they tend to do in Ubers. His phazing rest-talk set does a lot of work, but only really works with hazard support. Ho-Oh comes a close second for Stealth Rock weakness, which are probably up late game, as well as need for weather support, which may not be in your favor once all your other pokemon are dead.

    As for best overall, I'd probably say Groudon due to his unpredictability and sheer power behind most of his sets, especially the double dance set, and its ability to beat choice scarf users.
  8. Bossness

    Bossness

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    Out of all the contestants, Groudon is most likely to pull off a sweep. I was testing bulky Double Dance Groudon with SubHoneClaws Zekrom and it actually worked. The idea is to let Zekrom get revenged by a Dragon to get it locked into Draco Meteor/Outrage. Groudon can then come in and set up two boosts and sweep the team.
    BTW why are you people ignoring Giratina-O? It has calm mind. It can literally 6-0 stall teams as the last pokemon. Oh here is something you might want to see:
    252 SpA Reshiram Draco Meteor vs. +1 212 HP / 0 SpD Giratina-O: 338-402 (68.42 - 81.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  9. rileydelete

    rileydelete

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    Hmmmm. You need fake-life fun facts about each contestant. For example: Mewtwo was a high-school chemistry teacher who took to battling after winning a drunken bar brawl. He wants the money to build that lab he's always dreamed of.

    My vote is Mewtwo though. He has the moveset to bring down all of the above barring shadow ball/sneak Giratina.
  10. syrim

    syrim 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1

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    In my opinion this all depends on the scenario.

    Against an offensive team, Groudon is certainly the most likely to pull off a sweep, as it can set up in many scenarios with one mis prediction, and isn't too worried by Extremespeed.

    But against a full stall team, Gira-o has the best chance to reliably sweep. It can set up on many, many support pokemon, and has a better chance against stall due to bulky arceus' prominence.

    But because of Groudon's ability to run an effective lum berry set, and beat some stall checks with good hazard conditions, it is better overall. It's important to note that it will usually just damage a stall check beyond repair and then be statused or phazed, so in the given scenario Gira-o is better against stall.

    Groudon is certainly more useful against balance and offense in this scenario, so overall its more likely.
  11. Yehom

    Yehom

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    I think the scenario is too limited to actually make a good decision, since especially in Ubers, thing like hazards, weather, kind of team your opponent is using and how badly it’s team has been damaged already. But all things considered and trying to make it even, I’ll assume there is a open and plain playfield and in some cases assume that a proper situation is created, because most of these Pokes really need a weather advantage.

    Back to the actual scenario. Since you’re up against a team still left with 6 Pokes, you are in an absolute disadvantage, not only in number (duh, obvious?), but also in diversity. A team of 6 means pretty much that there has to a single counter or check to any of the 8 contestants. So not only does the contestant need to be hitting like a truck to win the match, it also has to 1) outspeed it checks/counters or have the ability to achieve that 2) take a hit from any potential scarfers 3) take a hit from any potential priority users (especially Extremekiller, since everyone and their mother are using it in Ubers). Assuming that you’re facing an opponent with a decently build team, you’re going to face one of more of the issues if you want to pull of that win.

    Therefore in my opinion Dialga, Zekrom, Manaphy and Giratina-O will probably fail to give you the win, expect in very rare and specialized cases.
    Dialga: doesn’t have a way to boosts it speed or attack, baring Bulk Up. It could win a 6-0 using a BU-set, but the opponent will probably already won when you’ve accumulated enough boosts. Doesn’t have a reliable form of recovery either
    Zekrom: has the same issues as Dialga, expect it gets Hone Claws and it doesn’t have that natural bulk that Dialga has, so it’s probably even more unlikely
    Manaphy: doesn’t have a way to boost it speed and will fall against any physical scarfer
    Giratina-O: same issues as Dialga and Zekrom

    This leaves Mewtwo, Ho-oh, Excadrill and Groudon, with are able to pull of the sweep, but again are really dependent of the situation of the playing field, the build of the opponents team and the state of the remaining Pokes of your opponent
    Mewtwo: fast enough to outpace any Poke, baring scarfers and Deoxys. It can boost both it’s special bulk and attack with Calm Mind and has Recover as a reliable form of recovery. It also has the natural bulk to take a hit from a few scarfers, but it’s weak(er) against priority. Extremespeed and especially Shadow Sneak will dent Mewtwo enough for it to be killed
    Ho-oh: it has Flame Charge to boost it’s speed, has Roost, but is too weather dependent in my opinion to actually sweep. In the Sun Ho-oh will have a field day, but in any other or even no weather it’ll be too difficult to actually pull out the sweep
    Excadrill: it gets Swords Dance, but again it's just too weather-dependent

    This leaves me with in my opinion the winner of the 8 contestants: Groudon. Groudon has that natural bulk to take a hit, isn’t weather-dependent and can boost not one, but even two of the most crucial stats in this situation. With a double boost set with Rock Polish and Swords Dance, I think that Groundon has the highest chance to actually pulling of the sweep. Not only can it take a scarfed hit, but it tanks pretty much all priority. A perfect fit.
  12. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Excadrill if they have no weather, Dialga if they do. Simple as that.

    Furai edit: The next time you make a post like this, you'll be infracted. We do not want these posts; we want high quality, well-explained posts that will lead to a discussion. Simple as that.
  13. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    +2/+2 groudon is probably the only thing that can sweep

    it should run

    adamant @ lum berry
    80hp / 252atk /176spd
    rp/sd/eq/se

    and that has a high chance of sweeping anything, as it can set up against basically anything physical (ho-oh can't 2hko with sacred fire) and then proceed to sweep as it ohkoes everything at +2 with sr i think besides giratina (o).

    gira-o is too slow against offense and it can't really beat stall i think because of last pokemon shenanigans.

    mewtwo shouldn't sweep anything because of the omnipresent revenge killers.

    manaphy beats balanced rain pretty handily, but that's it.

    zekrom's only chance to sweep is against stall, i guess, with a hone claws. i don't think a scarf version would hit 6 outrages in a row, and i doubt they wouldn't have anything that couldnt' tank an outrage.

    sd excadrill won't sweep in sand because the other team will most likely have a kyogre or groudon which they can sac to beat excadrill.

    bu dialga shouldn't sweep anything, as offense should be able to throw pokemon quickly enough so that it is forced to rest and eventually die. stall shoudl have a last mon killer.

    ho-oh is just too slow to do anything. flame charge is interesting, but ho-oh simply does not have the ohko power (and it takes recoil, too!) to take on threats like kyogre / rayquaza / dialga.
  14. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
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    Personally, I'd have to go with Manaphy, as it's basically the only Poke here bar Excadrill (who's immune to all but burn) that can reliably rid itself of status (though it has to be in rain). All the others will probably die from Toxic damage before they have a chance to sweep the opposing team, especially if Protect or Subsitute or whatnot is utilized by the opponent. However, this plus is totally negated in any other weather condition, and Manaphy is rather prone to revenge killing, so a close second for me would be StallTwo, as Substitute and Recover can basically stall out anything (as long as he has enough PP) and therefore is immune-ish to debilitating status.
  15. Kebabe

    Kebabe
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    Too pull of a sweep of this sort ether the pokemon has to outspeed and kill everything fast, or have the bulk and recovery to take hits and still be able to hit hard.

    mewtwo- to frail to pull of a sweep, scarfer and/or extremkiller and theres no hope for mewtwo

    zekrom- to slow, scarfers aren't really viable if you want too speep a whole team.

    ho-oh- has the special bulk needed but it cant really take hits on the physical side and as rain being as popular as it is, ho-oh isn't likely to sweep

    manaphy- its kinda frail and outside of rain it lacks recovery, I would say a CM manaphy has a decent chance to do something like this but not outside of rain.

    excadrill- slow and frail, the chances of you're opponent bringing you the sand are very slim.

    giratina- not the fastest, not the bulkiest.

    groudon- probably has a decent chance to pull of a sweep, isn't whether dependent, boosts its speed with rock polish and attack with SD, grudon has the bulk to have a chance of getting the boosts, and the attack and speed to make it work, grudon can also take extremspeed with not to much of a problem. But still I think most teams will have an answer as grudon has to take a heavy hit when it does its second of RP/SD. and then the team probably have something that can take a EQ and you have to rely on stone edge to hit. However groudon has ok chances to do something like this.

    dialga- I think that bulk up dialga is the poke with the best chances to do a reversed all kill. Lets say you gets a BU on the switch, then you have a really nice physical bulk, and after a few BU: its nothing that can touch you on the physical side. With max spedef dialga can take most hits, and those speatk:s that are super effective are the non-stab, bad accuracy focusblast. dialga is also immune to tock and heals from the other statuses with rest. I think dialga is the poke with the best chance due to its great bulk and after a few bulk ups great attack.
  16. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

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    Well let's see here.

    Mewtwo has a somewhat low chance of generally pulling back a comeback, but it's possible. The only thing is it's normally LO and it's also physically weak, meaning that it might be able to OHKO most the metagame, but any hard hitting, Scarfed physical attacker (Hell, LO EK Arc for that matter) coupled with LO damage means Mewtwo can't make the legendary comeback (although it is a GREAT LGS.)

    If anything, the best LGS Dialga set I can think of is OTR Dialga, but that can't really sweep 6 mons, now could it? Cro-Dialga with Bulk Up is probably a close second, and I'd say it could have a pretty good shot and is one of the more likely comeback pokes that I'm seeing on here.

    With some very, very good luck and good team-weakening on the opponent's side, Scarf Zekrom can actually pull off a comeback if its checks and counters are weakened, and it doesn't get confusion hax in the form of Outrage. However, that's all pretty unlikely, and normally means that Zekrom doesn't have much hope. Sub-Hone Claws could actually work pretty well in this case, there's no shortage of things it can set up on, after all.

    Ho-Oh....just has a few too many checks. If you break it sub at all, ScarfOgre is free to come in and make life hell for it (iirc Timid Scarf Water Spout always OHKOs even after Ogre has taken Rocks) and you still have a variety of things that can check it, such as Palkia or in general anything that can take a hit and has either a decently strong Dragon move that can break its sub or has a Choice Scarf and is capable of threatening it so it cannot play the Subroost game. In the sun, it has a much better chance of sweeping, but it's still shaky at best.

    I honestly have never seen a Manaphy sweep a team. I'm sure it could, but...well maybe it can't. Scarf Ogre pressures it, Mewtwo pressures it, Arc pressures it, everything that really hits hard pressures it and makes it so it can't just Hydrarest all day. A CM set might also be a good alternative though, and could provide the comeback, but you still have a host of checks and counters to that too. Ferro basically fucks over any Mana set anyways though.

    If they don't have Ogre or Groudon, Excadrill is actually pretty good as a LGS. If you pull off an SD, there's not really a whole lot that can stand in your way; barring the usual things like Landorus-T and Gliscor. I'd definitely put Excadrill reasonably high on the list. But of course without sand, it's GG Exca.

    Groudon, as mentioned earlier, is another one of those mons that has a very good chance of sweeping. Double Dance can take out a number of threats, the only problem being that it really wishes it could run LO; EQ at +0 with a Lum Berry just doesn't always hit hard enough, especially on things like Ogre where you NEED to OHKO or things like Arceus where if you don't OHKO you take an insane amount of damage. Groudon's still pretty high up there.

    Giratina-O, again as mentioned before, is bulky enough to take a hit and dish one out. It's normally seen, at least to me, as something that can kill something and maybe dent another. A great mon, awful comeback poke.
  17. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
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    Voting begins!

    Remember, our scenario is:
    We've all seen it happen. The battle is at 6-1. All hope seems lost for the one side, but they miraculously pull off a sweep or outstall their opponent's entire team with their last Pokemon, resulting in a 1-0! Which Pokemon is likely to pull off that 1-0 victory?

    Voting will end Saturday at 6 PM EST. To vote, post a reply with the name of the Pokemon you want in bold. Reasoning is encouraged but not required. Remember, unbolded votes will not count!

    Also, Arceus wasn't added because it would sweep every challenge because its Arceus.
  18. jackm

    jackm

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  19. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
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    In the end, I've gotta go with Mewtwo. It has semi-decent bulk and recovery, and hits like a truck. GOOOOOO!!!!
  20. Yehom

    Yehom

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    Groudon

    Reasons? I'm not going to type it again, so just read my previous post
  21. doublenikesocks

    doublenikesocks

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    Groudon It's double dance set is terrifying, it can sweep but must have the chance to set up.
    BU Dialga is a close second, most teams will switch into a special way to take DMs but will BU on the switch and soon will be untouchable with physical attacks and can rest off status/damage
  22. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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  23. TheOnyx

    TheOnyx

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    Excadrill. You didn't say what weather was up, so if it was sand than Drill will rape
  24. Daggerfall

    Daggerfall

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    Groudon. It doesn't rely on weather like Ho-Oh, Mana, and Exca do, and removes any potential Mana and Exca do upon switching in, thus forcing them out if they don't want to fall to it. Zekrom has to rely on the shitty Bolt Strike (seriously, it misses over half the time) to get past Steel-types, and gets forced out by Groudon, Exca, possibly Gliscor, so on and so forth. I've never seen a Dialga sweep, let alone do anything threatening beyond setting up rocks against my team, and always seems to falls easily. I've had a few problems with Mewtwo before, but it's just too frail to wipe a team by itself. It's good, but Groudon is superior. As for Giratina-O, I've never had a problem with that thing either. It gave a few of my monsters a burn and stopped Deo-A from punching craters through things, but it never really did anything threatening.

    Groudon is my choice as the best lategame team wiper. Not to mention that it can easily beat or stop five of the eight monsters on the list.

    Edit: I take back what I said about Mewtwo. I just wiped a team with him late-game.
  25. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    I want to address this because if the weather is not mentioned then presuming sand is actually the dumbest thing to do because it is the LEAST prevalent out of the weathers (not to mention actually being less used than weatherless).

    If the team is not specified then assume the most probable, not the most ideal.

    At any rate, Groudon.

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