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Ultimate Monsters (peaked at#1 on the smogon ladder)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by SuperPascal, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. SuperPascal

    SuperPascal

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    Hello everyone! I am SuperPascal and this is my first post here. I decided to use this post to share my bulky offense Uber team who helped me get to spot number 1 on the smogon ladder. So anyways, I will start with the team building process I made to create this team.

    Team Building Process

    First off, I decided which type of Arceus, the ultimate Pokémon, I should use. I decided to try a bulky version of the popular Extreme Killer set.
    [​IMG]


    Then, I had to decide which stealth rock user to use (every team should have stealth rock in my opinion). I also want a dragon resistance so Ferrothorn will fit the bill perfectly. It will share a fighting weakness with Arceus but that's okay since there's no fighting type in Uber except for Arceus-Fighting.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    After that, I knew I had to use the second best Uber, Kyogre. Its drizzle ability will help to reduce ferrothorn's fire weakness while also boosting kyogre's surf and water spout. Kyogre with choice spect will always be my favorite set.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Choice scarf is a wonderful item in Uber. In my opinion, Palkia and Dialga are its two best users. Palkia would go well with drizzle but I decided to use Dialga for surprize value and the fact he has a better typing in my opinion.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]


    Now, I have 3 pokémon with a fighting-type wakness. Like I said earlier, it's not really a big deal in uber but I have to least have one resistance to fighting. Mewtwo has this resistance and can deal some serious damage to almost any Uber thanks to its insane special attack along with Psystrike, his new signature move. Adding him to the team was a no-brainer.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]


    Finally, I was in pickle for last spot. I wanted to add either Darkari, Lugia or Palkia. I decided to go with palkia since he has good synergy with my other team members and he is a beast in the rain. I wanted to try an haban berry set at fist but then I remembered that haban berries have not been released yet in black & White. Having no interest in a lustrous orb set, I simply decided to use another it as another scarfer.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Let's now take a closer look at every member of the team
    The team​



    [​IMG] (wrong type I know)
    Arceus (Kuzco) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 208 HP / 148 Def / 148 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Recover
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake
    Not much can actually 2HKO this God. The HP EVs give Arceus a leftovers number and I choose a careful nature because most of the Uber metagame is special. This set is completely walled by Giratina-O and Skarmory but my other team members can handle them pretty well. Not much else to say, I am thinking about changing lefties for lum berry since this arceus is crippled by status.





    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn (Pique-Pique) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    standard Ferrothorn set for Uber. I choose stealth rock over spikes because it's generally better than spikes, it takes less time to set up and Ho-oh can be a pain. Ferro can easily outstall most Ubers in the rain but has trouble with substitute and taunt user.



    [​IMG]
    Kyogre (Bubulle) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Water Spout
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder
    This bulky choice specs kyogre has so much power it's incredible. I choose to run max HP since Kyogre is slow to begin with and bulky Kyogre can take almost every attack from the special side.




    [​IMG]
    Dialga @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Aura Sphere
    - Thunder
    I love this set. It gives just enough speed to Dialga to outspeed Mewtwo and everything slower (which means evertything except for others scarfers and Deoxys). Max special attack and a modest nature is necessary in some situation and the remaining 64 HP EVs can be quite handy sometimes. The moves are obvious and don't need to be explained.



    [​IMG]
    Mewtwo (Pascal) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Psystrike
    - Aura Sphere
    - Ice Beam
    I know substitute and life orb don't usually go well together but leftovers or expert belt would be a waste on this Mewtwo. The combination of ice beam, psystrike and aura sphere give it excellent coverage and substitute helps against ferrothorn and status inducers.




    [​IMG]
    Palkia (Ploufe) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 144 HP / 252 SAtk / 112 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Spacial Rend
    - Thunder
    - Fire Blast
    Similar to Dialga, the EVs here give Palkia just enough speed to outspeed Mewtwo and everything slower. Max special attack as always and the remaining EVs go into HP. Once again, the moves are fairly obvious.



    Treat List​


    Arceus: Who doesn't have trouble with Arceus. It can run so many sets it's impossible to counter them all. When I see Arceus, I usually try to kill it as fast as I can.

    Mewtwo: My scarfers outspeed him and My Mewtwo speed tie with him. Not a problem.

    Lugia: Ferrothorn can usually beat Lugia without sub. My only team member who has a problem with it is Arceus.

    Ho-oh: Incredibly scary in the sun, it's not really threatening in the rain. I still need to be on the look-out since Brave Bird 2HKO Kyogre. Stealth rock helps a lot in this case.

    Kyogre: Ferrothorn and Palkia usually check this sea monster alright. I really don't like subCM variants however.

    Groudon: Not really a problem at all for any team member. Rock Polish set can be a pain after it weakned most of my team. Defensive sets with Sword Dance can be problematic for Arceus.

    Rayquaza: DD can be deadly but I would never give him a free dragon dance so it's okay.

    Palkia: SCARF! No but seriously, it seems like every Palkia is scarf nowadays. Anyways, Ferrothorn can take anything outside for fire blast not in the rain.

    Dialga: Don't know what to say really. He never really posed a threat to any of my guys.

    Giratina: Dialga is great counter.

    Darkrai: Dialga can outspeeds and OHKO with Draco Meteor. Mewtwo can usually set up a sub on him since most Darkrai users think I will switch out and try to dark void. I can think OHKO with aura sphere.

    Manaphy: Never even seen this guy.

    Zekrom: Ferrothorn walls it.

    Reshiram: Not a problem in the rain. Most of my team member can handle it.

    Chansey: Mewtwo can do some nice damage with psystrike (around 52%). Arceus needs to be at +6 to kill her most of the time. Ferro handles her pretty well and Kyogre can 2HKO most Chansey with Full HP Water Spout.

    Ferrothorn: Mewtwo is my only real counter to this guy. Palkia can also OHKO with Fire Blast if it's not raining. Dialga can 2HKO with aura sphere but it has trouble with leech seed and protect. My ferrothorn can wall other ferrothorn but she can't touch them. Kyogre's water spout 2HKO at full HP.



    Well, I think that's it for my first RMT. I hope you enjoyed reading it. Feel free to suggest any change that could help this team.
  2. waterwarrior

    waterwarrior

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,527
    -The only real team suggestion I have is Scarf Kyogre > Specs Kyogre, it just works better in a lot of situations.
    -Regarding the threatlist, Ferrothorn has trouble taking Palkia's Aura Sphere's, and its not affected by Rain, so just include that.
    -Mewtwo's picture is dissapointing. Even Ferrothorn looks better than Mewtwo.
  3. SuperPascal

    SuperPascal

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    thanks for the reply, waterwarrior. :)
    -For your suggestion of scarf Kyogre>Specs Kyogre, I have to say that I never tried out scarf kyogre so I don't know what to think of it. Anyways, I am sure this team doesn't need a 3rd scarfer.
    -Fire Blast in the rain still hit Ferrothorn harder than aura sphere (which two of my poke already have). That's why I don't change it (I can also abuse the sun from sun teams)
    -You are right about Mewtwo's picture. I will change it.
  4. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    763
    Good team. I'm not that expert in ubers, but I think you should use a spread of 252 hp/252 atk adamant on arceus, so you're still bulky, but hit significantly harder. I also think that running 2 scarfers is redundant, so you could use defensive dialga with stealth rock over your current set, which would free up a moveslot on nattorei to run spikes or power whip.
  5. SuperPascal

    SuperPascal

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    Thanks for the advice Blue Star. I also thought about changing Arceus' EVs spread since it often has to get to +6 to start to deal some real damage. However, with my current EVs spread, it's actually quite easy to get to +6 with recover and leftovers! Not much can 2HKO it except for a few set-up sweepers, life orb mewtwo and Kyogre. I think I will do some damage calcs to see how much I need to invest in attack to kill some threat with ES after one or two sword dance.

    For the other advice, I have to say that having 2 scarfers, which I though was a bad idea at first, is actually pretty good in the Uber metagame since my Palkia and my dialga can simply checks so much threats together. Also, it's often one of them who dies first in a battle. If for exemple I only had Palkia with a scarf, a lot of threat could simply destroy my team when it would be gone. However, I really like the idea of a bulky dialga to set up stealth rock along with Ferrothorn to set up spikes but this is a bulky offense team, not a stall team so this idea will be use for another team.
  6. fatty

    fatty
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    846
    i'm noticing a terrible ground weakness, so switching into things like cb garchomp or cb groudon (however rare they may be) is a gonna be an issue because you literally have nothing to take the hit. furthermore, you run the risk of being outright swept by rp groudon (who is normally accompanied by spikes). as mentioned before, dialga seems kind of redundant and out of place, so id recommend putting lugia in that spot to help with the previously stated threats.
  7. SuperPascal

    SuperPascal

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    thanks for the reply fatty.
    Regarding your advice, it's true that replacing Dialga with Lugia would help the team by reducing its ground and fighting weaknesses. Lugia is a great wall and I also have a dual screener set that I want to try*out. Unfortunately, as I said before this is a bulky offense team, not a stall or even a balance team, so Lugia is kinda out of place. I might still try it later. Oh and for the ground weakness you mentioned, it's true that CB Groudon can 2HKO everyone on my team, but at the same time, Dialga, Mewtwo and Palkia can outspeed and OHKO while Kyogre can survive an EQ (without spikes or SR) and can KO back. It also speed ties with it since most CB Groudon run only 4 Speed EVs. Choice band Garchomp on the other hand is even less dangerous since he only do an average of 46% on my Arceus (not a 2HKO with SR thanks to lefties). Anyways, I have never even seen CB Groudon and Garchomp on the ladder, but I understand I still need to be prepare for them.
  8. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
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    810
    Great team super pascal but I see a huge kingdra weakness in the team. As soon as arceus is gone or somewhat weakened (burned or just low on hp without boosts) it looks like kingdra with sub can clean up the whole team. Ferrothorn cant touch it because of sub, palkia and dialga say hi to dragon pulse and draco meteor and hydropump in the rain is hitting mewtwo very hard.

    calcs
    LO kingdra's max sp atk draco meteor vs dialga = 282 - 333 (78.99% - 93.28%) guranteed ohko with rocks and a layer of spikes
    LO kingdras max sp atk hydropump vs mewtwo = 366 - 432 (103.68% - 122.38%) really mewtwo's just screwed here in this case ._.

    So in order to get rid of this problem i say that if we cant beat em join em. I think replacing kingdra with palkia should help cleaning up and since no one uses max speed kingdra the evs can be tweaked a bit to speed creep or you could just run max speed. Either that or you could replace toxic with power whip on ferrothorn (argh magic bounce and taunt alleviation too ) so that he doesnt just become dead weight when a super fast dragon that is a kingdra with decent offense tries killing him.
  9. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,597
    Just a quick nitpick, Haban is already released in the Dream World.
  10. SuperPascal

    SuperPascal

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    @Mr.lol
    Ferrothorn beats every Kingdra that don't carry substitute and can stall every sub one who don't have yawn or DD. Since a lot of Kingdra sets use life orb, most don't run substitute (I have never seen one with sub actually). Also, Kyogre can usually handle Kingdra pretty well since Thunder OHKO non-defensive variants after stealth rock.

    For your advice of replacing Palkia with Kingdra, it seemed like a good idea at first, but Ferrothorn is in 25% of the uber teams and it can simply take everything Kingdra throws at it (except yawn). It also can't do much outside of rain. I think I will stay with Palkia. Thanks anyway for the advice.


    @TM13IceBeam
    Thanks for letting me know that. Now I can try my Haban berry Palkia :)
  11. UsernameSayWha

    UsernameSayWha

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
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    I think I battled this team. After I predicted the Ferro switch and killed it, Scarf Kia raped your whole team.
  12. XCookie

    XCookie

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    Well that is a good team, but maybe add an Importable Team, btw. It is very balanced team. I can't see any 2 weaknesses. You really have some awesome team building skills!
  13. Penance

    Penance

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
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    257
    Isn't 3 choice items pushing it? I think it's pretty solid even though I don't even know the basics of Ubers.
  14. InSiiDiOuS

    InSiiDiOuS

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Shadow Claw > Earthquake on Arceus as it lets you hit Giratina for SE damage along with other ghosts, psychics, etc. and also lets you conserve PP for extremespeed against foes that are weak to it i.e. Lugias, Giratina. Good luck with the team.
  15. Lickitungyourmom

    Lickitungyourmom

    Joined:
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    I think specs Kyogore is why his team does so well. It pounds all of kyogores counters, it forces you to outspeed kyogore. Stall teams generally switch to ferrothorn or chansey when they see kyogore, and specs water spout in the rain will be doing around 50% to both of them.

    Why not max speed and a timid nature on palkia? I like that you put your scarfers at a speed that will outspeed almost all commonly seen ubers without scarves, but having two like this is overkill I think. I'd max out palkia so it ties with other base 100 scarfed pokemon. My modest scarf kyogore outspeeds both your scarfers, and it is pretty common. What if you counter my kyogore with palkia, only to have your palkia hit by thunder, then expecting to outspeed my kyogore, get hammered by another thunder?
  16. Zack Drake

    Zack Drake

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2011
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    Very good team gg
  17. theGforce

    theGforce

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
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    20
    @xcookie, it has 3 fighting weak pokes( i figured you may have seen that but i thought, lets be the smart guy to tell you ^^)
    and also, come and have a look at my rmt, i don't know how to get a link in here but go to other teams and click: uburz (some shit between brackets)
    made by theGforce

    thank you and your help is appreceated --....--

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