1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Update Regarding Stop Online Piracy Act and NDAA

Discussion in 'Congregation of the Masses' started by PokéTrainer J, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. PokéTrainer J

    PokéTrainer J

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    61
    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/12/sopa-watered-down-amendment/

    Looks like the man behind this has watered the bill down. As it looks like now, if it passes, that only foreign sides will be affected by this. Anything ending with an .com, .org, or .net will not be covered by this bill.

    The web is somewhat safe (atleast regarding to SOPA, don't know about PIPA though). Yes, it would still be censoring, but at least most of the internet won't be shut down now.

    Also there's going to be a Senate Hearing on SOPA Thursday, one Senator has threatened to filibuster the bill and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is against the bill saying that it would spell the end of the Internet as we know it.

    http://americancensorship.org/
  2. Alan

    Alan

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,815
    I agree with Hillary Clinton.


    Not something I'd ever expect to say in my lifetime.
  3. Danmire

    Danmire I'm distracting you, you big turd blossom!
    is an Artist Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,216
    Woah. Never thought I'd hear her say that. Props to her for defending not only people who pirate, but for anyone who roams the Internet, really.
  4. PokéTrainer J

    PokéTrainer J

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    61
  5. capefeather

    capefeather no shit
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    2,884
    I actually had a debate with a Smogon user about this subject last night, and it's pretty clear that no one is really scrutinizing the intent of the bill. It's really unproductive to use emotion-inciting wording to force an overreaction and maybe fuel conspiracy theories. Anyone in support of the bill can read my step-by-step overview of my opinion on the matter:

    1. Laws will inevitably screw over people it didn't intend to screw over. We're not perfect. The benefit should be much higher than this "false positive" cost.

    2. I'm always leery of laws like these that aim to "crack down on crime". I'm not confident that this bill will be effective in dismantling cybercriminal activity.

    ---

    3. The perceived benefit of this bill is not enough to offset the perceived cost (screwing over false positives, and possibly making cybercrime worse).

    I find that 2. is where people insist on the intent of the bill, from a political-science point of view. The intent of the bill is not the problem, however. Lawmakers should listen to balanced expert opinion to see what the actual ramifications of the bill could be.

    Let's say you were a lawmaker trying to push a law to fight drug-related crime by cracking down on people who produce certain drugs indiscriminately. Suppose also that criminal experts came in and told you that this would be a bad way to fight drug-related crime, and that a better way would be to legalize and regulate the drugs. Obviously the original bill has good intentions, but the suggestion would be more effective, and would thus be the better way to do things.

    This isn't exactly an exotic example. In fact, prohibition played out like this almost exactly (except there may not have been experts warning people about the consequences). Trying to help is not the same as helping. You can word a bill as professionally and unambiguously as you want, and it still won't mean jack if it doesn't achieve its goal.

    I'd like to see the results before I believe them.
  6. Walrein

    Walrein

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,434
    As a right-wing 4th generation Texan, I must say...

    that I agree with Clinton (for once).
  7. PokéTrainer J

    PokéTrainer J

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    61
  8. coolking49

    coolking49

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,821
    so... Pirate bay is still safe right? it is .org.

    But what the politician is doing is pretty smart. As one of the commenters on a site said,
    "This is such a common tactic, they introduce something horrifyingly draconian then water it down to something just a little draconian. Everybody claps and passes it, except that each time it gets a little worse until they get what they wanted in the first place. Please do not drink the kool-aid. "
  9. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,202
  10. az

    az I DON'T NEED A MAN
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,825
    guys the internet is people
  11. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,362
    Shit... Hilary Clinton said something intelligent? And someone attacked Jackson Lee?

    Holy shit I love these two people. We have one that came to the light and the other that is a troll politician.

    I also want to point out that I'm glad that the bill has at least been "considered" and some amendments were made to it. It's still a nasty bill, but it's a hell of a lot better than the original. I even decided to make something cheap and 30 seconds.
    [​IMG]
  12. PokéTrainer J

    PokéTrainer J

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    61
    http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterprise/2011/11/legal-analysis-of-sopa-protect.php

    So as obviously stated here, court will determine the final say, not the industries or the government.

    According to Wikipedia, it was decided that the next court hearing revolving around SOPA won't be until after Congress's Holiday Break. I'm sure it is still possible for us as citizens to try to sway the decisions of the people attending this court hearing which will be the final say on whether SOPA passes or gets shot down.

    Also you guys might want to look into the contents of NDAA which was recently passed, it's not good:

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1867pcs/pdf/BILLS-112s1867pcs.pdf
  13. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    584
    I ended up watching a livestream of the entire session where they discussed the bill. Unsurprisingly, it was a bunch of old men (and a few old women) discussing why technology is evil and bad and the downfall of civilization, blah, blah, blah. A few of them, Polis and Issa, seem to actually know what the fuck they're talking about.

    The entire session was practically "Will the gentlemen yield?", which is Congress' way of saying "shut the fuck up, I want to say something now."
  14. Alan

    Alan

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,815
  15. PokéTrainer J

    PokéTrainer J

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    61
    The SOPA bill is so broad and so vague that IT WILL CRIPPLE THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE INTERNET! You're one of those fools that wants society to be the way it was in the 80's and 90's, back when we didn't have Internet. Back where we were limited to what content we could watch via Television and now with the Internet already in place we can choose what we want to listen to and watch.

    Did you know that any website that has foreign servers that you can already now use has the potential to be blacklisted from the U.S. Government If SOPA passes? Serebii.net's server is from the U.K. and according to the Government we can't have Americans surfing through websites with British Servers now do we? What about Website Servers from other countries like Japan where WPM gets some of his Pokemon info from, the U.S. Government would be able to blacklist those sites as well.

    With the way SOPA is watered down, EVERY WEBSITE THAT EVERY AMERICAN IS ALREADY ABLE TO USE WILL BE REGION LOCKED. The Pokemon franchise would die in the U.S. If the Government gets their way with SOPA and much more, this also effects the Video Game Industry in the way they distribute content for their games. People won't be able to know what game is good or not cause those sites would probably already be blacklisted by the Government. So instead that helps the Video Game Magazine Industry where we waste more ink and paper with content that tells us what's good and what's bad, not saying that the Magazine Industry is bad but hopefully you know what I mean.

    The next House Judiciary Committee vote on SOPA will be held next Wednesday on December 21st according to Wikipedia, they aren't going to wait after the Holidays they want this thing passed pronto. That still gives us time to petition against this bill.

    You guys know Spoony from the website Spoonyexperiment.com right that's affiliated with ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.com? Well he recently wrote a letter to Arizona Republican Senator John McCain who as you know ran for U.S. President against Barack Obama back in 2008. Here's what he replied back to him:

    Just for the record, about PROTECT IP which is a similiar bill to SOPA was put on hold by Democratic Senator from Oregon Ron Wyden. It hasn't been signed into law at least not at the time I'm posting this comment. So in other words I take it that John McCain is Anti-Net Neutrality? Now here's a Senator who actually gives a crap about why SOPA is bad:

    So what did we learn boys and girls? Republicans are against Net Neutrality while Democrats are in favor of it. Republicans favor Small Government while Democrats favor Big Government. It's a messed up country we live in, still surprises me why I haven't quit my job yet and moved to Canada seeing as how it's looking like a better country to live in right about now. >_>
  16. capefeather

    capefeather no shit
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    2,884
    While I'm sure a lot of people appreciate the raised awareness of the issue, I think that you're way oversimplifying the issue. I'm sorry, but I don't think that, in practice, Pokémon websites will be shut down because of this bill. They probably could have been shut down at a whim before. (Remember the lawsuit threats to various fansites last year? That was mostly because of Keldeo/Meloetta/Genesect sprites.) That said, that is exactly the problem with the bill! Like I said, I'd really like to be proven wrong, but I don't see this bill being effective in its intended capacity any more than I see it being effective in its unintended capacity.
  17. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    584
    Can we please not make stupid, generalizing statements like these? Not every single Republican and/or Democrat is linked up to a gigantic hivemind that gives them all the same thought process.
  18. mtr

    mtr

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,773
    Bill probably sounds nice in theory, but it will mean hell in practice.

    I already heard about Megaupload being shut down by UMG on Nov 29th, which was bad enough. What happened afterwards was just a disgusting example of corporate censorship: when music artists made a song protesting the action, UMG ordered it pulled from youtube from "copyright infringement" despite that UMG didn't own anything.

    If SOPA passes stuff like this will be commonplace.
  19. PokéTrainer J

    PokéTrainer J

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    61
    Is Nintendo against Pokemon fansites? More or less it's actually helping their company rather than hurting it and them supporting SOPA doesn't really help their cause in this at all.

    Well anyway here's another link to those that want to petition against SOPA and PROTECT IP, besides AmericanCensorship.org but this time it's on the WhiteHouse.Gov Website:

    https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitio...gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl
  20. capefeather

    capefeather no shit
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    2,884
    Isn't much of the issue that a lot of Democrats are in support of the bill?

    Also, Japanese media companies seem to tend not to follow the idea of fansites giving them free advertising. For example, Capcom Japan likes to shut down Japanese Ace Attorney websites, while Capcom USA is well aware of court-records.net and lets it run. It is Toei, not Funimation, that keeps trying to shut down Team Four Star. Nintendo and Square Enix seem to be exceptions where even their American counterparts are hardasses about "copyright infringement".
  21. mtr

    mtr

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,773
    Not sure, but some companies have particularly douchy attitudes about livestreams, reviews, let's plays, and video guides of their games. No idea why.
  22. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon Switching is a metagame trend
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,010
    Don't worry guys NDAA is a great way to deal with trolls!

    e.g:

    SkarmPiss: JEWS ARE BAD JEWS ARE BAD JEWS ARE BAD
    Pwnemon: SkarmPiss is a terrorist!
    Undercover FBI Agent: Don't worry I'm tracking his IP right now and we will hold him indefinitely!
    Pwnemon: [​IMG]

    we must not let this power get into the wrong hands...
  23. PokéTrainer J

    PokéTrainer J

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    61
  24. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,171
    You fail to realize that these two bills (SOPA and PIPA) both enjoy overwhelming support from democrats and republicans in congress alike, and Obama has already said he would not veto these. Obama said he might consider vetoing NDAA but that's because he thinks it doesn't give him enough power, not because he is opposed to the idea of detaining anyone he wants indefinitely. Both sides are fucking us so quit playing cheerleader.
  25. PokéTrainer J

    PokéTrainer J

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    61
    Obama just recently signed NDAA into law and I'm assuming he didn't know about Section 1031 and 1032 so now he decides to veto it? I'm thinking that If he doesn't veto NDAA it will hurt his re-election campaign maybe not who knows.

    Even still NDAA the way it's worded is still a violation of the Bill of Rights and the U.S. Constitution. As for SOPA and Protect IP here's a link explaining why these bills are going to be difficult to kill:

    http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/2434-Why-SOPA-and-PROTECT-IP-Are-So-Hard-to-Kill

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)