UU Analysis Discussion Thread

[Bouff]

Approved by Ernesto
Credit to Spirit for the OP :]
Maintained by Bouffalant and IronBullet

Hi, this thread is meant to primarily discuss one of two things: possible additions/updates to completed analysis and is the place to go to if you want to make a case for a Pokemon that doesn't have an analysis but believe it should receive one. The first entails the following:

- Whether an analysis needs to be completely rehauled to fit the current metagame.

- Whether a set needs to be added/updated.

- Other small miscellaneous changes, such as giving X move a slash on X Pokemon's set.

The second should be self-explanatory, but if you believe that X Pokemon deserves an analysis, make sure nothing completely outclasses it and that it has a good enough niche.

We'll keep a record of all changes made to analyses here.

Analysis Edits

September 4 2015

Whimsicott - changed the set order, moving the offensive set to the first, as it's what people use the most and is what's most consistent. removed LO and put lefties / pixie plate as the main items, as lo racks up unnecessary u-turn damage and the damage output that comes with it isn't enough to make that drawback worthwhile. also added a bulkier spread mention on the offensive set as it lets u take hits better from things like hydrei, gatr, megapert, etc. while being faster than the support set, as well as a mention on that running more or less bulk than the given spread can be used to ur personal preference.

Abomasnow - growth added to oo. while it's not as good vs offense as sd, it expands on its stallbreaking potential, and still deals some pretty nice damage vs offense at +1 wit shard. it hits some pretty neat benchmarks (i.e. having a small chance to 2hko doublade with +1 blizz after rocks), and psychotic vs pif for botw is pretty much a testament to how dangerous it is versus some of the slower defensive builds

Mega Aerodactyl - replaced all mentions of aa with wing attack as it's pretty much the better move lol, they deal the same power but wing attack has 48 pp as opposed to aa having 36. not missing is the only advantage that aa actually has but since the only accuracy lowering move that exists is muddy water on goodra (so basically it doesn't exist) it's way too specific for aa to have a use over wing attack. i mean, i guess it sounds cooler...

spread was also changed to max speed, i don't think there's any real benefit to running 216 speed as u lose ties vs other aeros, and if youre gonna run bulk 40 hp isn't really a feasible amount either.

Mega Beedrill - tspikes added to oo, while it's not as useful as knock or drill run it does wear down some of bees more notable answers like p2 and mola, wearing them down and making them easier to deal with late game. pursuit was also added to oo.

Reuniclus - twave got a bigger mention on the cm set, while it does require more team support than fblast / sball variants it does cripple its offensive checks which can be big in the long run

Mega Houndoom - protect added to the np set. there's not much i can really say that dodmen didnt in his post in the creative sets thread, but scouting scarfers is really neat for a mon commonly revenge killed by them, and the safe mevo can also be pretty handy.

Mega Ampharos - heal bell removed from the resttalk set......i don't even know how that made it but it's gone now @_@

Chandelure - flame body mentions in set details for the sets, pretty neat way of dealing with porygon2s trying to cheese you and punishes physical attacks as well.

Cobalion - lefties has the primary slash on all the sets, with shuca getting a slash on the pivot set as this lets it help switch into a fair amount of threats. lo removed from the sd set because it doesn't do anything really notable. air balloon and salac berry mentioned in oo, thunder wave added to support set.

5 September 2015

Salamence - Added Defog to the Life Orb set and renamed it All Out Attacker instead of Mixed Attacker because Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Defog / Roost is a perfectly viable moveset that has been popular recently. Offensive Defog Mence is not getting a separate set because we don't think it plays differently enough from regular Mence to warrant it - it's basically just offensive Mence with Defog slapped on.

Hydreigon - Slashed Draco Meteor on the stallbreaker set.

Cloyster - Added a set utilising Spikes / Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin to OO.

Feraligatr - Made Ice Punch the primary slash for Dragon Dance as it's way more popular than Sub.

Galvantula - Added Specs and LO to OO.

Mega Aggron - Added Fire Punch and Rock Polish to OO.

Mega Blastoise - Added Whirlpool to OO.

Blastoise - Added Refresh to OO.

Chesnaught - Added Swords Dance to OO.

Lucario - Mentioned Pursuit support and recommended Jolly if running Earthquake or Crunch to outspeed Chandelure.

Mamoswine - Changed primary slash to Jolly.

Infernape - Added Flame Charge to OO.

Krookodile - Changed primary item for the non-CB attacker to Dread Plate and mentioned Rocky Helmet.

Mienshao - Added HP Ice to the LO set and added Aerial Ace and Black Belt to OO.

Nidoking - Added Taunt to OO and mentioned Shadow Ball and Focus Blast for the main set.

Nidoqueen - Changed the primary Speed EVs to 76 to outspeed Cune and Gligar with a mention of the faster spread. Slashed Thunderbolt in the offensive set.

Mega Sceptile - Slashed Giga Drain with Energy Ball and Focus Blast with HP Fire.

Roserade - Added Choice Scarf, Weather Ball, and Spikes Suicide Lead to OO.

Rotom-H - Made Thunderbolt primary slash for Specs set over HP Grass.

Mega Sharpedo - Made Waterfall primary slash over Hydro Pump and added Taunt to OO.

Sharpedo - Added special set of HP / Ice Beam / Dark Pulse to OO.

Tentacruel - Added Giga Drain and Swords Dance to OO.

21 September 2015

Porygon2 - Mention of Gligar as partner.

Mienshao - PJab in set details for Scarf and slashed for LO.

Lucario - Added Focus Blast and Timid nature to NP set.

Rotom-H - Changed primary spread to 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 Speed Timid.

Milotic - Added mentions of Suicune and Gatr.

Swampert - Added Power-Up Punch to OO.

Slowking - Removed mention of Empoleon in C&C and changed primary defensive spread to 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD Bold.

6 October 2015

Moltres - Slashed Will-O-Wisp on the main set and added Ancient Power to OO.

10 October 2015

Escavalier - Replaced the Assault Vest set with a Leftovers set.

26 October 2015

Swampert - Added a mention of Ice Beam to the SR set.

Mega Swampert - Slashed Power-Up Punch alongside Ice Punch for the Rain Dance set, removed SR and added mentions of Superpower, Ice Beam, and Sludge Wave. Removed Superpower from the SR set but kept a mention of it. Added Ice Beam and Sludge Wave too.

29 November 2015

Porygon-Z - Added mentions of Shadow Ball.

3 December 2015

Zoroark - Added mentions of Sludge Bomb.

 

[Bouff]

After looking at the analyses, here are some things I'm gonna note.

Hide

Ampharos:

-Volt Switch is mandatory on all sets, so I don't know why it's slashed with Heal Bell of all things.

-based more around the offensive set rather than the physically defensive one, which is kinda questionable to me

-needs a lot less speed in the offensive set

Entei:

-i find it kind of odd how the assault vest set is nearly entirely invested into spdef, should have more speed imo

Escavalier:

-no mention of sd at all, not even in oo lol

Gligar:

-kinda feel like an sd pass set would be cool, especially now that mew is gone, although i'm a little iffy on it

-no mention of special defense investment as an alternative spread

Hippowdon:

-kinda weird that rock slide is the first slash on both sets and whirlwind isn't, considering hippo is one of the best phazers in the tier

Snorlax:

-earthquake should probably be the main slash on curse set, as there isn't much you hit with crunch that you can't hit with eq now that mew and bro are gone, and it makes it easier to deal with lucario (and cobalion, i guess)

Tornadus:

-absolutely needs to be a bulk up set somewhere

Zoroark:

-no swords dance set (or nasty plot, to an extent), only mentioned in oo.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Here's a list of all the current UU Pokemon which are lacking any sort of analysis (Either WIP or finished.)

• Alakazam
• Blastoise
• Blissey
• Milotic
• Porygon2
• Suicune

I didn't include the newest drops (Diancie, Togekiss, Smeargle, Espeon, Vaporeon, Quagsire) as they might need a bit more time before they are ready for an analysis.

These should probably be added to the OP of the reservation index as "unreserved" as people might not know they need analyses.

If this is the wrong place to post this, if you have plans for these Pokemon, or if any of the information is incorrect, then sorry in advance.

 

[Water Drone]

I think SD zoro is outclassed by mega absol, so I don't think it deserves a sd set unless you don't wanna waste your mega slot

 

[Bouff]

LightningLuxray: As far as I know, Koko has Cune and Stoise on notepads, so I'll have to ask him. I was supposed to do Zam but i never got to it lol, so I'll be uploading a skelly p soon. hopefully ernesto or lochie will update the op soon (its been like 5 months lol) and then we'll put those up for reservation.

Water Drone; ..not really. while absol might have much better offenses, zoro doesn't have to rely on superpower's stat drop to hit other dark-types, and pretty much the mere presence of illusion lets Zoro disguise itself as other common sweepers such as Infernape, etc. I think it deserves a set.

 

[Epikhairz]

I was doing Pory2 and I never got any real QC comments and it recently got moved to L&O (which i just realized a few days ago). If it's cool, i could recreate my skeleton or someone could pull it out of there and bug QC to check it more.

This also happened with Omastar btw

 

[Bouff]

alright sorry for the late response Epikhairz , but apparently you hadn't updated the op in three months so it got locked, although im p sure if you wanna get back at it then ask lochie :>

 

[Iura]

Uh just a small thing, Azelf's Analysis still contains Mega Manectric if I read it right. It's for Dual Screens and how it counters Crobat.
Edit: If this is wrong sorry lol. If it's the wrong place well uh... I'm just looking at your OP spoiler.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Uh just a small thing, Azelf's Analysis still contains Mega Manectric if I read it right. It's for Dual Screens and how it counters Crobat.
Edit: If this is wrong sorry lol. If it's the wrong place well uh... I'm just looking at your OP spoiler.

Fixed this in SCMS

 

[Lumari]

(posting this here because this seems to be the most appropriate place if I want the best odds of having someone read this who knows what to do about it)
A few small things: while doing some minor grammar fixes/removing mentions of banned mons in the SCMS, I ran into some stuff that I don't trust myself to fix because it requires more metagame knowledge/experience than I have.

-Bronzong's Trick Room lead set uses CB Victini's V-create as a Defense benchmark;
-Slurpuff's Calm Mind set has a slash for Rest and Chesto Berry, which aren't explained in the appropriate sections (I would have fixed this if it were just an ordinary 252/252+ Bold spread, but it's fully offensive);
-There's a contradiction in Raikou's analysis: the usage tips on SubCM advise against setting up on Florges, while the checks and counters say that Florges can be setup bait for this set. I didn't know which one to remove and which one to maintain :>

If someone more qualified could fix these, that would be wonderful :]

 

[Gourghost]

-There's a contradiction in Raikou's analysis: the usage tips on SubCM advise against setting up on Florges, while the checks and counters say that Florges can be setup bait for this set. I didn't know which one to remove and which one to maintain :>

Isn't that just correct? Florges is setup bait for the set, just like mentioned in C&C, so setting up against it won't leave it with any problems, I think.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Isn't that just correct? Florges is setup bait for the set, just like mentioned in C&C, so setting up against it won't leave it with any problems, I think.

But it advised against setting up on Florges, when in C&C it said Florges was setup bait. The two contradict each other.

 

[Bouff]

Locking this until we get a few analyses done; if you want to discuss sets with QC members, feel free to go on #uucouncil, or PM one of us :)

 

[Ernesto]

I reopened the thread to discuss the analyses that have already been uploaded, so that we can updated them via SCMS to better represent the new meta (that is, without Rachi, Raikou, Starmie, and Celebi, and with Hera and Mence). Some are more obvious (like mentioning Aerial Ace on Scarf Shao to rk Hera, and changing standard Florges's spread to max/max Bold), but others might require more discussion.

 

[Kink]

I reopened the thread to discuss the analyses that have already been uploaded, so that we can updated them via SCMS to better represent the new meta (that is, without Rachi, Raikou, Starmie, and Celebi, and with Hera and Mence). Some are more obvious (like mentioning Aerial Ace on Scarf Shao to rk Hera, and changing standard Florges's spread to max/max Bold), but others might require more discussion.

I believe non-Calm Mind sets still run 252 hp 232 def 24 spd.

 

[Freeroamer]

Moved from other thread

While the initial analysis for Forretress' defensive set still holds mostly true, it needs a Custap set adding, I was wondering if I could write up the analysis for such a set?

 

[Ununhexium]

Don't quote me on it but the QC team is probably deciding if it warrants a new set or can just be put in through SCMS. Also the priority of it probably hasn't been decided, so it may be only reservable to badgeholders or QC ony

 

[Freeroamer]

Is there an up to date list of stuff non-badgeholders can do? I just want to get involved with writing analyses but it seems everything is only for those with a badge

 

[Ernesto]

Moved from other thread

While the initial analysis for Forretress' defensive set still holds mostly true, it needs a Custap set adding, I was wondering if I could write up the analysis for such a set?

Yea, adding a Custap set is fine imo. Priority Explosion with max Attack Adamant does a number to many offensive mons, besides obviously preventing Defog/Spin. Anyone can write it, only thing is you won't need Overview / Other Options / Checks & Counters (you can check the link in the OP if it's your first analysis) because that's already added. If anything needs to be updated to reflect Custap, we can add it via SCMS anyway.

 

[Freeroamer]

OK thank you for the quick response, will try to get it up asap

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

On an off topic note from what's going on, but I'd like to seriously question the viability of Avalugg and Mega Banette (in other words, requesting the removal of their analyses).

Avalugg is just overall awful. It's supposed to spin and serve as a physical wall with its supposedly nigh impenetrable bulk...but when is it ever going to put in serious work against a team? Never. It has no way to deal with any spinblockers. Chandelure melts it entirely, Doublade doesn't care about Avalugg and can set up all over then crush it with Iron head, and less common ghosts like Mismagius can also hit it hard on its abhorrent special bulk. It's also prone to Will-O-Wisp from the not so common Super Gourgeist and Cofagrigus. It's weak to Rocks and it also finds itself susceptible to Spikes and Toxic Spikes to make matters worse. This means it has to spend a lot of time using Recover which kills momentum and it also severely hampers its walling abilities. It also has an awful defensive typing which makes it crushed by many physical attackers like Darmanitan, Mienshao, Heracross, and Tyrantrum. It also has poor special bulk, so any special attack, no matter how weak, wrecks it. This also makes it shaky against Dragons since things like Salamence, Goodra, and Hydreigon are seen running Fire Blast at times. This is worsened by the fact that it's extremely slow, so it's insanely easy to revenge kill and hazard damage and repeated super effective or neutral hits will throw it into oblivion. Furthermore, it's just outclassed by Forretress who has Volt Switch and hazards, as well as Donphan and Mega Blastoise. We've gotten well into the point where we know what is good and what is bad in this metagame, and Avalugg is extremely bad.

Mega Banette frankly isn't good. It's not worth the Mega slot for an "ultimate revenge killer" that relies so much on 50/50's to actually revenge kill something (plus sacrificing itself to get that revenge kill). Heck, it's not even about being a Mega in the first place: to put it flatly, Mega Banette is a guessing game in a physical form when it's down to the wire. Its Prankster Destiny Bond relies on mindgames to get that kill, and anyone will see that coming, and they either let their setup sweeper set up or just flat out kill it. It has Prankster Will-O-Wisp, but that's all it does in the face of any threats (or T-Wave). Mega Banette has to have Shadow Claw or something to do damage and that isn't doing all that much. It also has a hard time actually getting it going in the first place because Prankster does not activate at all on the turn Banette Mega Evolves. Mega Banette could run Protect, but then you become practically completely useless because it needs Will-O-Wisp or something to become usable. It just doesn't do much useful and I'd rather not waste my Mega Slot for something that is "High risk, low reward".

All in all, I don't think these two deserve to have analyses. They have no real worthwhile niche in UU and are never worth your teamslot, and are just overall ineffective in the metagame.

 

[tehy]

Mega Banette frankly isn't good. It's not worth the Mega slot for an "ultimate revenge killer" that relies so much on 50/50's to actually revenge kill something (plus sacrificing itself to get that revenge kill). Heck, it's not even about being a Mega in the first place: to put it flatly, Mega Banette is a guessing game in a physical form when it's down to the wire.

Destiny Bond->Shadow Claw->Destiny Bond->Shadow Claw

if you do this destiny bond is always present before your foe can attack; if your opponent can tank 8 shadow claws or has some form of priority or recovery you might be in trouble, otherwise you got it, not like most sweepers have any of those qualities so you should be o.k.

prankster WoW is also cool

not sure if being the ultimate revenge killer is worth it, but meganette IS the ultimate revenge killer (well it has to mega transform, not sure if it runs Protect in UU)

 

[Bouff]

yeah me and IronBullet93 discussed banette a little bit the other day, and i wouldn't mind it getting an analysis. it doesn't have to face as much competition now that sableye moved up, and 165 attack is nothing to mess with. i was thinking a set with taunt / pain split / will-o wisp / shadow claw could be used, but if any of the other qc members / mods want to chime in with their thoughts on banette pls do. i don't really have any comments on delphox so i'll leave it up to other qc to discuss but i don't really think avalugg should get an analysis at all lol.

 

[Ernesto]

I'm not sure I like that set much tbh, but I have no experience using it (and I haven't faced it for like a year) so I can't comment on it. If it's getting an analysis tho, it should prolly be added to VR too :o

Also feel free to delete Avalugg, it was from two decades ago and I don't think anyone's used it since like beta lol. Similarly with Chatot really, although that could possibly have a niche because of fuckChatter.

 

[Politoad]

I'm very late with this but with the Hydreigon analysis, the Scarf spread has max Speed EVs to outspeed Scarf Darmanitan / Krook as well as Max Speed Mega Aero / Bee / Scept. However, these can all be outsped by 232 EVs in Speed, so maybe the remaining EVs could possibly be put into Defense to make it a small bit bulkier?