UU Victim of the Week V2 (Week Five: Nasty Plot Infernape)

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You forgot to account for the fact that Lucario takes 10% life orb recoil on attack, so in practice the 94% minimum from an uninvested attack is a OHKO, no entry hazards needed. You can also use a Calm/Careful nature to further improve Nidoqueen's bulk here. Special defensive spread looks like a counter, physically defensive looks like a check.
 
Nominating Banded Crobat as Check

Crobat @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Cross Poison
- U-turn
- Pursuit

To kill Lucario you just need to hit Brave Bird. If switching in, Crobat only fails to kill if it comes into SR and a high roll Flash Cannon as Lucario can finish with Vacuum Wave.

252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 187-222 (60.1 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 47-55 (15.1 - 17.6%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 23-27 (7.3 - 8.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 Atk Choice Band Crobat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 306-361 (108.8 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Edit: inserted level 100 calcs and made a Check and added animated image
 
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Nominating Banded Crobat as Counter

Crobat @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Cross Poison
- U-turn
- Pursuit

To kill Lucario you just need to hit Brave Bird. If switching in, Crobat only fails to kill if it comes into SR and a high roll Flash Cannon as Lucario can finish with Vacuum Wave.

252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 99-117 (61.4 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 25-29 (15.5 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 12-14 (7.4 - 8.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 Atk Choice Band Crobat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 160-189 (110.3 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Edit: Nom'ed as Counter instead of SoftC/HardC
Welcome to Smogon! Sadly, I have to nitpick your nomination because many things trouble me in that post:

Firstly, your calcs uses both mons at Lv. 50. In the future, please use Lv. 100 mons. Secondly, it's better to not put the 4 HP EVs since you'll only be able to switch in four times instead of five if SR are up (put it in Def or SpD). Thirdly, I'd actually change it to a check because if SR are up and you switch in on a Flash Cannon, Lucario has a chance to finish you up with a priority Vacuum Wave before Crobat can do anything.

252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 187-222 (60.1 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 23-27 (7.3 - 8.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Total damage = SR + Flash Cannon + Vacuum Wave = 77HP + (187-222)HP + (23-27)HP = 287-326HP (Crobat has 311HP and has a chance to be KOed)

And even if it doesn't success to KO Crobat, Crobat will KO itself by OHKOing Lucario due to the recoil of Brave Bird. Therefore, Crobat is not a counter but a check.
 
Welcome to Smogon! Sadly, I have to nitpick your nomination because many things trouble me in that post:

Firstly, your calcs uses both mons at Lv. 50. In the future, please use Lv. 100 mons. Secondly, it's better to not put the 4 HP EVs since you'll only be able to switch in four times instead of five if SR are up (put it in Def or SpD). Thirdly, I'd actually change it to a check because if SR are up and you switch in on a Flash Cannon, Lucario has a chance to finish you up with a priority Vacuum Wave before Crobat can do anything.

252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 187-222 (60.1 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 23-27 (7.3 - 8.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Total damage = SR + Flash Cannon + Vacuum Wave = 77HP + (187-222)HP + (23-27)HP = 287-326HP (Crobat has 311HP and has a chance to be KOed)

And even if it doesn't success to KO Crobat, Crobat will KO itself by OHKOing Lucario due to the recoil of Brave Bird. Therefore, Crobat is not a counter but a check.
Thanks for the welcome to begin with, and I did state that Crobat had a small chance to fail to kill. Will remember to calc level 100s from now on.. At 50 Crobat has 160hp without investment hence the 4EVs there
 
Thanks for the welcome to begin with, and I did state that Crobat had a small chance to fail to kill. Will remember to calc level 100s from now on.. At 50 Crobat has 160hp without investment hence the 4EVs there
Lol I didn't see it in your post (proof that I hate reading)! Anyways, my point is that if Crobat has a chance to fail its job at coming on Lucario and KOing it, then Crobat is no longer a counter, but a check.
 

LilOu

PO poopyhead
Yo, SDarbzzz and everyone who has difficulties when stating what's a check and what's a counter:

Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

Pokémon A counters Pokémon B if Pokémon A can manually switch into Pokémon B and still win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.
This is a perfect example I got from the issue 32 of the Smog, since, to be honest, it's not that easy to get used to the difference between the two when one is just starting to get involved to competitive play, so I hope this helps :]

As GnralLao stated, Crobat isn't a counter, but a check, because if it is given a free switch vs Lucario, it can win 100% of the time, but can't actually come manually into Luke in the worst case scenario, which is a Flash Cannon to the face.
 
COUNTER:
Chandelure
Item: Choice Scarf/Quick Claw
-Flamethrower
-Hex
-Will-o-wisp
-Whatever

Calm Nature
+252 Sp. Def/+252 Sp. Atk/+4 Spe

Works very well for me b/c it's immune to fighting and resists steel. The added Sp. Def boots from EVs & nature should give it allows it to hang on against Flash Cannon for a hit or two - at least long enough to get in a flamethrower to 2HKO it. Will-O-Wisp and Hex are there to help soften it up just in case Chandelure has been weakened earlier.

Just to add some specifics:
Aura Sphere vs. Chandelure - No effect
Vacuum Wave vs. Chandelure - No effect
Flash Cannon vs. Chandelure assuming 1 Nasty plot - 111-132 damage a bit less than half HP (230-261)
 
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COUNTER:
Chandelure
Item: Choice Scarf/Quick Claw
-Flamethrower
-Hex
-Will-o-wisp
-Whatever

Calm Nature
+252 Sp. Def/+252 Sp. Atk/+4 Spe

Works very well for me b/c it's immune to fighting and resists steel. The added Sp. Def boots from EVs & nature should give it allows it to hang on against Flash Cannon for a hit or two - at least long enough to get in a flamethrower to 2HKO it. Will-O-Wisp and Hex are there to help soften it up just in case Chandelure has been weakened earlier.

Just to add some specifics:
Aura Sphere vs. Chandelure - No effect
Vacuum Wave vs. Chandelure - No effect
Flash Cannon vs. Chandelure assuming 1 Nasty plot - 111-132 damage a bit less than half HP (230-261)
Welcome to Smogon! (two greetings in a week, how about that?)

Don't take this the hard way, but Chandelure has already been done and it has no business running Quick Claw or a Calm Nature (if it was only to counter Lucario, then that's alright, but it's generally an inferior option over Timid/Modest depending on the set).
 
Counters:
Rhyperior (kokoloko)
Still wondering how Rhyperior counters Feraligatr. Passho berry + metal burst? Anyone?

Edit: GnralLao I know he submitted Tangrowth, was just pointing out that tiny error with a humourous way -_-

On to the relevant part of the post
Virizion as counter



Virizion @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

Scenario A) Lucario goes for NP as Virizion switches in, strikes with +2 Vacuum Wave. Virizion survives and KOs with CC.
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 138-164 (42.7 - 50.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Virizion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 408-482 (145.1 - 171.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Scenario B) Lucario goes for Flash Cannon as Virizion swithes in, follows it with a Vacuum Wave. Virizion survives even if Lucario gets a defense drop and KOs with CC.
252+ SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 138-164 (42.7 - 50.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 70-83 (21.6 - 25.6%) -- 1.2% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 103-122 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 92.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Virizion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 408-482 (145.1 - 171.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Calcs are assuming a modest nature even though it isn't slashed with timid.
 
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OK, here's a an attempt at a Pokemon that hasn't been done yet (courtesy of RU).

Nominating Jellicent as a Counter

Jellicent holding Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body
-Waterspout
-Scald/Psychic
-Taunt/Trick Room
-Anything else

Calm Nature
HP 252/Sp. Atk 4/Sp. Def. 252

Should be fairly straighforward: As Water/Ghost, you're immune to Vaccuum Wave & Aura Sphere and resist Flash Cannon. At most, it will take at least 3 turns for Flash Cannon to bring down Jellicent, even with Rocks down. Waterspout can deal a pretty solid first hit or two, but you'll want to switch to Scald once Jellicent's HP gets down below 50% or so. Taunt will lock Lucario into Flash Cannon to prevent it from building up more SpA from Nasty Plot and Trick Room gives you the advantage of going first. Either of them gives Jellicent a very solid chance of KOing Lucario. As an added benefit, Cursed Body has a decent chance of disabling Flash Cannon as well, buying you and extra 3 turns where Lucario can't touch you.
 
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Pretty sure one of those EVS will have to be 4, most likely Defense. And I'd move all of the defense to SpA since it would hit harder, and you're dealing with a special Luke so it'd be easier.
 
Still wondering how Rhyperior counters Feraligatr. Passho berry + metal burst? Anyone?
The fact is it's not. kokoloko nominated Tangrowth, not Rhyperior, as a Counter but somehow, one of the counters for the slate from two weeks past (Rhyperior) was copy-pasted onto last week's.
 
Fourth week is over. Winners are:

Counters:
Slowking (dodmen)
Gligar (newfren)
Moltres (Darvin)

Checks:Tentacruel (Hogg)
Chandelure (Kreme)
Shaymin (YABO)

===

This week's victim is a Pokemon that is currently virtually nonexistent in the UU metagame, but that I believe has the potential to become a top threat


Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast / Vacuum Wave
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot / Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Dark]
 
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YABO

King Turt
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Taking Tentacruel as hard check/counter tough to make a distinction here


Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
-Scald
-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Filler

You resist everything on the set, take not too much from Grass Knot but have to worry about Blaze boosted Fire Blasts.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Blaze Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 256-302 (70.3 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 166-196 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Blaze Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 383-452 (105.2 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 188-224 (64.1 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you run SpD you don't care at all but that set is p bad
+4 252+ SpA Life Orb Blaze Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tentacruel: 312-368 (85.7 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
 
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Kreme

You might be right but you're not correct.
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Salamence as a Check



Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Iron Tail

Infernape can only beat Mence if it uses HP Ice on the switch in. Mence can eat any one hit + Vacuum Wave after Rocks. It can also eat a +2 Vacuum Wave if need be. Mence outspeeds with a Choice Scarf so it doesn't have to fear taking any +2 hit bar Vacuum Wave and proceeds to OHKO with Earthquake as well as having a 43% chance to OHKO with Outrage.

Defensive calcs:

252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 354-416 (106.9 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 131-155 (39.5 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Blaze Infernape Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 179-212 (54 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 43-52 (12.9 - 15.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 87-104 (26.2 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Offensive calcs:

252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 298-352 (101.7 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 267-315 (91.1 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
 
Nominate Chandelure as a hard Check/soft Counter:

Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Flash Fire Ability
Calm Nature, EVs SpA 252/ SpDef 252/ Spe 4
-Psychic
-Clear Smog
-Shadow Ball
-Anything else

Ok, so the logic should be pretty clear here. For all calcs I'm assuming Infernape has one Nasty Plot up.
First off, Infernape's attacks:
-Vacuum Wave/Focus Blast - Does nothing b/c you're ghost type
-Fire Blast - What doesn't kill you makes you stronger b/c Flash Fire
-Grass Knot/Hidden Power Ice - 15.33% damage (7HKO)
-Hidden Power Dark - 61.3% damage (2HKO) - if you can clear off Nasty Plot with Haze, this does become a 3HKO.

Now, Chandelure's attacks:
First off, Haze to clear off Nasty Plot and give you a bit of breathing room
Psychic - 104.75% damage - should be a 1HKO - especially given life orb damage
Shadow Ball - 68.94% damage - guarenteed 2HKO
 
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Nominate Chandelure as a hard Check/soft Counter:

Chandelure @ Assault Vest/Eviolite
Flash Fire Ability
Calm Nature, EVs SpA 252/ SpDef 252/ Spe 4
-Psychic
-Haze
-Shadow Ball
-Anything else

Ok, so the logic should be pretty clear here. For all calcs I'm assuming Infernape has one Nasty Plot up.
First off, Infernape's attacks:
-Vacuum Wave/Focus Blast - Does nothing b/c you're ghost type
-Fire Blast - What doesn't kill you makes you stronger b/c Flash Fire
-Grass Knot/Hidden Power Ice - 15.33% damage (7HKO)
-Hidden Power Dark - 61.3% damage (2HKO) - if you can clear off Nasty Plot with Haze, this does become a 3HKO.

Now, Chandelure's attacks:
First off, Haze to clear off Nasty Plot and give you a bit of breathing room
Psychic - 104.75% damage - should be a 1HKO - especially given life orb damage
Shadow Ball - 68.94% damage - guarenteed 2HKO
Why is Eviolite slashed? Chandelure is fully evolved and gains no benefit from using it.
 
Assault Vest Goodra as a hard check.



Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb
- Muddy Water

This Goodra takes absolutely everything Infernape has to offer very well and can OHKO it back in return. Dragon Pulse is standard STAB, Fire Blast hits steel-types and sludge bomb covers Fairy-types. Muddy Water is solely there to OHKO Infernape while also dealing loads of damage to Ground-types such as Hippowdon. Preferred is Wish support though as Goodra lacks reliabile recovery of its own and will be worn down by racked up hazard damage quite quickly. Hidden Power Ice does absolutely nothing because it is a weak non-STAB move and only 1/3th of all Infernapes will use it.

Calcs:

252+ SpA Goodra Muddy Water vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Infernape: 282-334 (96.2 - 113.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 103-122 (26.8 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
 

Kreme

You might be right but you're not correct.
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Just wondering, since I didn't know where to ask, is it too late to change my nominated Pokemon?

Edit: Nevermind, rip I wanted Slowking
 
Slowking as a Counter



Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast / Ice Beam

Slowking resists both of Infernape's STABs and when equipped with an Assault Vest, it can even counter Grass Knot variants due to its excellent special bulk. Regenerator helps it to counter Infernape as many times as it wants to as it will recover 33% of its max HP (roughly what Grass Knot deals to it) every time it switches out. Moreover, if Slowking switches into a Nasty Plot, it survives a Grass Knot at +2 (even after SR) and OHKOes back with its STAB move of choice.
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 61-73 (15.5 - 18.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 66-79 (16.7 - 20.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Dark vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 91-109 (23.1 - 27.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 120-143 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 133-156 (33.8 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Dark vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 177-211 (45 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 239-283 (60.8 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Slowking Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Infernape: 318-374 (108.5 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Slowking Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 318-374 (108.5 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dragon Tail is useful against setup sweepers since their boost(s) will be cancelled as they're switched out and provides chip damage against Slowking's switch-ins. The choice between Fire Blast and Ice Beam is based on whether if you want to deal with Steel-types or Dragon-types which are common switch-ins to Slowking respectively. Other moves can be chosen for the fourth moveslot such as Focus Blast and Grass Knot to hit with certain special walls or opposing Water-types respectively. The given EV spread gives Slowking a SR and Regenerator number (not to mention nice bulk), maximum damage output and enough speed to outpace other base 30 mons.
 
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Nominate Chandelure as a hard Check/soft Counter:

Chandelure @ Assault Vest/Eviolite
Flash Fire Ability
Calm Nature, EVs SpA 252/ SpDef 252/ Spe 4
-Psychic
-Haze
-Shadow Ball
-Anything else
Eviolite doesn't function on fully-evolved pokemon like Chandelure, and Assault Vest prevents you from using non-damaging moves such as Haze. Use Clear Smog instead, which deals damage in addition to resetting stats so it's compatible with Assault Vest. In this case, though, you should just go straight for the psychic. It has a 75% chance to OHKO Infernape, and Infernape outspeeds so he's going to hit you before you can take away his boosts anyways. While I don't think Assault Vest is a really good choice for Chandelure, Fire Blast/Shadow Ball/Clear Smog/Psychic is a decent moveset for an AV pokemon and weird as this set is it will check Infernape.

A better set you might consider would be Choice Scarf Chandelure. The Scarf will allow you to outspeed Infernape and deliver the 75% chance of OHKO with Psychic before he can launch his brutal +2 HP Dark.
 
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