Gen 6 Victim of the Week - ORAS Edition

[xDesch]

Thanks for all the suggestions! The OP has been updated and we are ready to move onto week 17!
This week, we will go back to the classic "beat this poke before it beats you" style, but with an added challenge as well. This week's victim is Mega-Lucario!

Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Iron Tail
- Stone Edge

The added challenge is to assume that he is Adamant with Sticky Web up on your side of the field. If that is too difficult, you can assume that he is Jolly without the Sticky Web support. Good Luck!

 

[GnralLao]

Giratina as a Counter

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Tail

The combination of immense physical bulk, recovery (even though it's very reliable), Will-O-Wisp to burn physical attackers and Dragon Tail to phaze out setup sweepers make Giratina a great Mega Luke counter. The fact that it's immune to M-Lucario's strongest and most reliable move is another big advantage as it has to rely on 75 and 80% accurate moves to try and deal with Giratina. Also, Giratina doesn't care that much of Sticky Web being on the field as it's pretty slow anyway. If M-Lucario is Jolly, Giratina will have an even easier time dealing with it as the difference in damage output is quite noticeable.

There's not very much else to say other than once Mega Luke is burned, it virtually has no chance to KO Giratina.

Jolly calcs

252 Atk Mega Lucario Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 75-89 (14.9 - 17.6%) -- possible 8HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 150-178 (29.8 - 35.3%) -- 21.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 300-354 (59.6 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Adamant Calcs

252+ Atk Mega Lucario Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 83-98 (16.5 - 19.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 166-196 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 328-388 (65.2 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[Polonium209]

So here is the lord, ready to blanket check all the physical threats in the tier. He doesn't give a crap about webs or Adamant Lucario.

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Relaxed/Impish Nature
- Shadow Ball/Earth Power/Earthquake
- Will-O-Wisp/Thunder Wave
- Defog
- Draco Meteor/Whatever

This is the greatest possible defensively fat version that lives any +2 hit from Lucario after rocks. The less bulky version (120-150 HP/252 Def, Adamant Nature) has a very high chance of living +2 Iron Tail without rocks. It's immune to Close Combat, forcing Lucario to use Iron Tail (with its garbage accuracy), Stone Edge, or Ice Punch.

Giratina can easily burn and neutralize the threat, but the moveset doesn't really matter as long as you have some sort of move that hits Lucario. The Lucario in the sample set doesn't have Bullet Punch, and if that's the case, Giratina can also TWave Lucario and attack it. Or Earthquake+Shadow Sneak. Or phaze it out. If Iron Tail misses, you can even sit around and Defog the webs away, lol. Ez.

Edit: When I started writing this, the above post didn't say anything about Giratina. o_o;

Calcs

+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 374-440 (74.3 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Lucario Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 282-332 (56 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mega Lucario Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 187-220 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 120 HP / 252 Def Giratina-O: 408-482 (86.6 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 150 HP / 252 Def Giratina-O: 408-482 (85.3 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

0 Atk Giratina-O Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 188-222 (66.9 - 79%)

 

[Level 56]

Groundceus (check)

Arceus @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Recover
- Stone Edge

Note: This check is for mega-lucario without webs on the field.

Groundceus is a nice check to Lucario-mega because its faster than lucario and can switch into any lucario's STAB (tho both close combat and Iron tail do decent amount of damage), as groundceus is faster, a single earthqauke from grounceus OHKO's lucario making groundceus a decent check to lucario-mega.

Hide

Calculations:

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 244-288 (63.8 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 204-240 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 414-488 (147.3 - 173.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[SG-58]

Reserving Aegislash.

Everyone's favorite possessed sword as a CHECK.
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- King's Shield
- Toxic
- Sacred Sword
- Gyro Ball

The only change here from the standard Aegislash is that I'm running Sacred Sword over Pursuit/Sneak. Sticky Web doesn't really affect Aegislash all that much as it will already be slower than Lucario. Ideally, Aegislash would get in for free as either A: Lucario switches in or B: he SD's. Lucario shouldn't be too scared of Aegislash until he realizes that SS almost OHKO's (see calcs). King's Shield can be used on the following turn should the Lucario actually stay in and attempt to attack. Gyro ball and Toxic are left on the set so that Aegislash doesn't miss out on its other utilities such as checking Xerneas.

Calcs

4 Atk Aegislash-Shield Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lucario: 84-100 (29.8 - 35.5%) -- 27.8% chance to 3HKO
EDIT @ below (thanks lmao): 4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 246-290 (87.5 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

-2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 46-55 (14.1 - 16.9%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 91-108 (28 - 33.3%) -- 91.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 182-215 (56.1 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 273-322 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[ApplepieFTW]

Reserving Aegislash.

Everyone's favorite possessed sword as a CHECK.
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- King's Shield
- Toxic
- Sacred Sword
- Gyro Ball

The only change here from the standard Aegislash is that I'm running Sacred Sword over Pursuit/Sneak. If Lucario is already at +2, this set is less effective - see calcs. Sticky Web doesn't really affect Aegislash all that much as it will already be slower than Lucario. Ideally, Aegislash would get in for free as either A: Lucario switches in or B: he SD's. King's Shield can then be used and if he SD's again, he still can't quite outright OHKO you. Obviously if he tries to hit you when you KS you can then proceed to hit him with SS and continue playing mindgames with KS. Gyro ball and Toxic are left on the set so that Aegislash doesn't miss out on its other utilities such as checking Xerneas.

Calcs

4 Atk Aegislash-Shield Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lucario: 84-100 (29.8 - 35.5%) -- 27.8% chance to 3HKO

-2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 46-55 (14.1 - 16.9%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 91-108 (28 - 33.3%) -- 91.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 182-215 (56.1 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 273-322 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Hey just a heads up, your sacred sword calc is wrong as you used the shield form. The attack form should do way more (easily 2hko)

 

[Random Passerby]

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Thunder Wave
- Dragon Tail / Whirlwind
- Aeroblast

Lugia can take any attacks from Mega Lucario, heal up with Roost, paralyze it with Thunder Wave or phaze it away with Dragon Tail. Aeroblast is also able to 2HKO Mega Lucario, who struggles to do much damage to it.

Calculations:
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 79-93 (18.9 - 22.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Lugia Aeroblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Lucario: 132-156 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

 

[NabboCheTesta]

Mega Gengar as a check

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt / Protect
- Destiny Bond
- Focus Blast
- whatever

Gengar can deal somewhat inconsistently with both versions of Mega Luke. If it is under webs, it can exploit its ability to evade the hazard and still outspeed Adamant Luke. If, instead, it does not have webs, it can Mega Evolve right away and shatter the jackal without any way out. This switches into Luke on its most spammable attack, Close Combat, and on Stone Edge even after rocks and before mega, and Focus Blast will easily dispose of it in one shot.

Latios as a check

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Defog

Latios checks Luke in a different way, that is trying to disable the Sticky Web strategy. Without the precious silk to entangle enemies into, Lucario suddenly becomes slower than many powerful threats like ExtremeKiller, Ghost Arceus, Mewtwo, and Latios itself, which check the ridiculously frail jackal just by switching, surviving, and killing.

When dealing with Mega Luke, it must be remembered that, while Close Combat is powerful, the other moves Luke runs are inaccurate. Trying to pressure Luke in order to make it use Iron Tail or Stone Edge can lead to misses, which can easily doom Mega Luke to a premature halt.

and seriously, who runs Sticky Web now that half of the teams pack a Defogger?

 

[Lord Abbadon]

Support Groudon as Hard Check

Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave/Roar
- Stone Edge

Standard defensive Groudon is a soft counter to Physical Mega Lucario. Avoids OHKO from any boosted attack at full health, and easily OHKOs back. The reason its not a counter is because Groudon lacks reliable recovery and +2 CC has a very small chance to OHKO Groudon after rocks.

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 322-380 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 322-380 (79.7 - 94%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

4 Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 342-404 (121.7 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Edit: Yeah, I did not notice that the given set also mentioned adamant, my bad. Adamant gets outrun by base 100 and over though, but that's beside the point. Like Random Passerby mentioned below, Adamant Mega Luke has over 50% chance to OHKO at +2 after rocks. Glad I did not call it soft counter like I initially thought it would be lol.

 

[Random Passerby]

Support Groudon as Hard Check

Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave/Roar
- Stone Edge

Standard defensive Groudon is a soft counter to Physical Mega Lucario. Avoids OHKO from any boosted attack, and easily OHKOs back. The reason its not a counter is because Groudon lacks reliable recovery and +2 CC has a very small chance to OHKO Groudon after rocks.

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 322-380 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 322-380 (79.7 - 94%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

4 Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 342-404 (121.7 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Take note that Adamant Mega Luke has a high chance to OHKO after Rocks.

+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 352-416 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[xDesch]

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys! The OP has been updated, and we are ready to move onto the next week. I have been thinking about re-using some earlier victims with different sets to get more ways to beat key threats in this meta, but I think we should focus on getting each threat once before we do that. With that in mind, this week's victim is Mega-Metagross!

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Zen Headbutt / Earthquake
- Thunder Punch / Pursuit

This thing is slightly uncommon, which is reasonable, but it still has some nice niches as a pursuit trapper, Xern check and a heavy hitter that is immune to Toxic. I hope to see some good, viable and creative checks and counters to this guy, which is very possible to find! Good luck!

 

[benbe]

is this like a joke or

 

[Mr.378]

Reserving Seismitoad.

 

[GnralLao]

Regular Groudon as a Check

Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Tail / Roar

Groudon's only set that's not outclassed by its Primal forme (Drought support + Ground neutrality). It can come in on any of Megagross' moves without being 2HKOed (and only a very slight chance of being 3HKOed without SR by Meteor Mash, its strongest move against Groudon) and 2HKO back with Precipice Blades. Furthermore, it can setup SR before confronting Megagross and also phaze it out if it gets a boost from Meteor Mash to deal with it later in the match (by Groudon or a teammate). If Groudon enters the field via a free switch, it then becomes much easier to check Megagross (I don't know if that ever was a thing in Ubers, but watch out for Grass Knot as Groudon is 2HKOed by it even if Megagross has a negative nature).

Calcs

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 58-70 (14.3 - 17.3%) -- possible 8HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 74-88 (18.3 - 21.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 133-157 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 65.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 199-235 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (kinda problematic, but that situation will rarely happen)

0 Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 258-306 (75.6 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Krauersaut]

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys! The OP has been updated, and we are ready to move onto the next week. I have been thinking about re-using some earlier victims with different sets to get more ways to beat key threats in this meta, but I think we should focus on getting each threat once before we do that. With that in mind, this week's victim is Mega-Metagross!

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Thunder Punch

This thing is slightly uncommon, which is reasonable, but it still has some nice niches as a pursuit trapper, Xern check and a heavy hitter that is immune to Toxic. I hope to see some good, viable and creative checks and counters to this guy, which is very possible to find! Good luck!

It's much more than "slightly uncommon". Why mention it having a niche as a pursuit trapper without including pursuit? Why are you running max speed adamant on a base 110 mon with not running any set-up moves, and why the bloody hell does it have Thunder Punch ?_? If your team isn't prepared for Ho-Oh, Thunder Punch Mega-Metagross isn't going to change that e.e

If this thread somehow keeps going, why not do actually relevant, not shit mons, like Dialga, Gira-O, Shaymin-Sky or Rayquaza? If we've gotten to the point where one of the most relevant threats left to be checked in the metagame is Mega-Metagross, it may be time to hit the proverbial nails in the coffin.

 

[absdaddy]

It's not a shitmon, this set made it look like one. Both evs and moves are really far from optimal, not to mention lack of pursuit on a mon that's supposed to pursuit trap.
Reserving Ground Arceus

 

[Level 56]

Reserving Yveltal

 

[astroboy]

reserving arceus dark

Arceus-Dark @ Dread Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Calm Mind

arceus-dark can take any hit metagross wants to go for and use it as set-up bait

0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Mega Metagross: 278-330 (82.9 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Dark: 199-235 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws burned Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Dark: 99-117 (22.2 - 26.3%) -- 16.6% chance to 4HKO

 

[xDesch]

Ok, seems like some of you are not too happy with the choice of Mega-Metagross, but hold on a sec before you start litter this thread with all kind of random insults. As I said earlier, I want to go trough every poke that can be seen as a "threat" before we start going on with some more "interesting" pokes. This may also mean that I will choose some pokes that are not necessarily top tier threats, and it is not like I'm going chronologically from the viability rank either when picking a poke to highlight. So no, it is not a joke. This poke has, fyi his own analysis here at Smogon, so why not include him? (And if I thought about including him, why should it matter much when exactly I do that?) Also, it is not my job as the OP to give 100% realistic recreations of the things that are most optimal to use, but rather what would be the worst case scenario when defending against it, which is why I didn't include Pursuit in his move. But I had to mention it, as it is an important aspect of Metagross. And btw, Thunderpunch IS included in the official set for Metagross on Smogon, so it is not for random Ho-Oh's, (well, that too) but also for things like POgre and more. Also, what set-up moves did you want me to include? Agility?

Now, I will admit that the EV spread is a little bit awkward, but I used it because I favoured him as a threat more when he had more speed and more attack. Also, as stated before, the victim of the week's set is not set in stone, this means that you can assume that he has other coverage moves, if you want to, which some other guys have done here. Anyways, this is a thread for healthy discussion and moreover for people to get involved. If you say Metagross isn't a threat with no special niche, then that is fine, but I'd prefer you'd keep those opinions to yourself and let others enjoy the game. I am sorry if I disappointed some of you with this one, but I honestly can't say that this is an outrages poke to highlight for a week. I'll come up with something good next week, tho!

Also, I've changed the spread a little. Since this thing is not too hard to check, it won't hurt that he can have a couple of different movesets on the same set

 

[astroboy]

no ones saying megagross itself is unviable or anything, but its niche is as a pursuit trapper that checks fairies and latis not... this. you mention how it has an analysis, but you ignore the main reason why it has one? im sorry, but i dont really get it. whats the point of finding answers to mons that youll never bump into

sorry if this was sloppy, im on mobile.

 

[NabboCheTesta]

Arceus @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- whatever

Not much to say about this at all.
Lives two Meteor Mashes

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 183-216 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(183, 184, 187, 189, 192, 193, 196, 198, 199, 202, 204, 207, 208, 211, 213, 216)

and burns it, first than delivering a swift KO.

8 SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 282-332 (93.6 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
(282, 284, 288, 290, 294, 296, 302, 306, 308, 312, 314, 318, 320, 324, 326, 332)

I also use this occasion to tell you about the might of Reflect Arceus. The move comes useful more on mono-CM arceus instead of willo to stop donner and Ho-oh in their tracks.

EDIT: those 4 missing HP EVs won't change anything.

 

[xDesch]

no ones saying megagross itself is unviable or anything, but its niche is as a pursuit trapper that checks fairies and latis not... this. you mention how it has an analysis, but you ignore the main reason why it has one? im sorry, but i dont really get it. whats the point of finding answers to mons that youll never bump into

sorry if this was sloppy, im on mobile.

Yeah, I know this is kind of a vague poke for a game like this, but my thought behind it was as a Toxic-immune poke for some sort of offense. Offensive teams loves to have some sort of poke that can reliably protect the team from Toxic, mainly from the the great wall, Lugia. I envisioned Metagross coming in on some things for free and punching holes into other teams, forcing them to recover and give oppertunities to his teammates. With Hazard support, this should work just fine, but I know it is not his main niche and is not a poke that is good in a game like this by nature. I guess I thought a little bit too far outside the box this time. I'll admit, this was a little bad on my part, and I can see that people are not satisfied with this, but I hope you can bear with me, for now. I would appreciate that. So let's try to make the best out of it, and make this the fun game it was intended to be!

 

[Krauersaut]

Ok, seems like some of you are not too happy with the choice of Mega-Metagross, but hold on a sec before you start litter this thread with all kind of random insults.

We weren't insulting you - it's not particularly you we have a problem with. For me, it's the choosing of this before some of the other, much more prominent/viable threats I mentioned, and for others, how the set you posted isn't nearly as optimized as it could be.

As I said earlier, I want to go trough every poke that can be seen as a "threat" before we start going on with some more "interesting" pokes.

While I'm certainly not saying you should go in order on the Smogon Viability Rankings™, it would be a good idea to check tour games, get requests, or even look at ladder usage stats. There are certainly several mons that should be taken as a much more pressing threat than this.

And btw, Thunderpunch IS included in the official set for Metagross on Smogon, so it is not for random Ho-Oh's, (well, that too) but also for things like POgre and more. Also, what set-up moves did you want me to include? Agility?

Thunder Punch doesn't kill either Ho-Oh or Kyogre even after Meteor Mash. Ice Punch, Pursuit or a set-up move are much better options. Speaking of set-up moves, Hone Claws is fun ;3

Also, please don't slash Zen Headbutt. You're making an already not-so-good mon worse. q.q

 

[absdaddy]

On pursuit set zen headbutt has best neutral coverage. Running eq means you can't touch ho-oh, zen hits all 3 big mons in ogre, groudon and bird and it does it hard enough. Play megagross first.

 

[Krauersaut]

on pursuit set zen headbutt has best neutral coverage, running eq means you can't touch ho-oh, zen hits all 3 big mons in ogre, groudon and bird

If the intent behind using Mega-Metagross is to hit Ogre, Groudon and Bird, you're doing something wrong e.e

e: To rephrase, it should be more concerned about weakening PDon and hitting Latis than doing 45% to Ogre and Ho-Oh.