1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Victreebel (Update)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Loquacity, Apr 14, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Loquacity

    Loquacity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    STATUS: COMPLETE AND READY FOR UPLOAD

    [​IMG]

    __________________

    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/victreebel

    __________________

    [Overview]

    <p>Although Venusaur's popularity as a Swords Dancer may cast a shadow over Victreebel, it does have a few defining differences. It has a higher base Attack stat than Venusaur. Victreebel's access to Leaf Blade's high critical hit ratio may make the difference when hitting Pokémon like Swellow or Blaziken on the switch. Victreebel also has Chlorophyll, which makes it a better fit in Sunny Day teams then Venusaur. Sucker Punch also provides Victreebel with a priority move, something that Venusaur lacks. While Victreebel is very frail, it can switch in on a predicted Leech Seed or Toxic unscathed. Victreebel is an underrated sweeper that few teams prepare for.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Leaf Blade
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Swords Dance
    move 4: Sleep Powder / Encore
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Adamant
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With an Attack stat of 339 and an amazing STAB move in Leaf Blade, Victreebel has the ability to be a very potent physical sweeper in UU.</p>

    <p>Leaf Blade is the standard STAB move on Victreebel. Sucker Punch helps take out threatening Pokémon who out speed Victreebel. Sleep Powder and Encore are both present on the set in hopes of letting Victreebel get in a free Swords Dance. Sleep Powder is the more preferable of the two. Encore requires a bit more prediction, but it can be useful when you switch in on a Leech Seed or Toxic.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Some may point to Cacturne as a more effective user of this set due to Cacturne's STAB Sucker Punch and higher Attack stat. Victreebel has some advantages over its Grass/Dark-type cousin. Its base Speed is 15 points higher, allowing Victreebel to rely on Sucker Punch less to do damage. Victreebel's typing is defensively more reliable. It lacks the Fighting-, Bug-, and Poison-type weaknesses that Cacturne carries while lacking the Psychic-type immunity and sharing the Fire-, Ice-, and Flying-type weaknesses. Leaf Blade also has a higher Base Power than Seed Bomb.</p>

    <p>This set is perfect for taking out bulky Water- and Ground-types, allowing your own Water- and Ground-types to take on the opposing team. It's also an awesome wall breaker. It's especially good at taking out Chansey and Clefable, who could give your special sweepers trouble later in the match. It's best to make sure the opponent doesn't have a Steel-type waiting in the wings to come in and ruin your set up. Also, it's best to ensure you have an answer to Steel-types to clear the road so Victreebel can sweep.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSalac
    move 1: Leaf Blade
    move 2: Sucker Punch / Return
    move 3: Swords Dance
    move 4: Substitute
    item: Salac Berry
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Like the previous set, the intent here is to allow Victreebel to sweep the opponent with a boosted Leaf Blade. However, instead of relying on boosting its Attack alone, this set aims to also boost Victreebel's below average Speed. Victreebel's best chance at making this set works is to switch it in on a Pokémon threatened by it and set up a Substitute. At this point, Victreebel can use Swords Dance behind the protection of the Substitute.</p>

    <p>Due to Victreebel's below average defenses, its Substitute will be easily broken. This can be used to Victreebel's advantage. By continually using Substitute, Victreebel eventually reaches 25% health, which will activate the Salac Berry. With an Adamant nature and 244 EVs in Speed, Victreebel has a Speed stat of 237. After Salac Berry activates, Victreebel reaches 355 Speed, which outspeeds all base 110 Pokémon and ties with Jolly Purugly. If Victreebel is running a Jolly nature, it reaches 260 Speed. When Salac Berry activates, Victreebel reaches 390 Speed, outpacing all base 125 Pokémon. This is vital as you then outpace Swellow, who is a major threat to Victreebel.</p>

    <p>The choice between Sucker Punch and Return relies on whether you're confident you can safely activate the Salac Berry. Return doesn't rely on the opponent attacking to work and does more damage overall. Ghost-types aren't a problem as Leaf Blade handles all of them in UU, even Haunter. Sucker Punch is helpful before the Salac boost, as it lets you take on faster opponents without boosting Victreebel's Speed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In order for this SubSalac set to work, it's best to make sure the opponent's priority user is out of the picture, especially Ice Shard users. And if one appears, make sure you have an answer. Steel-types are good partners with any Victreebel set, absorbing most super effective attacks thrown at Victreebel. Fire-types also pair well with Victreebel, absorbing the Ice- and Fire-type attacks thrown at it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Sunny Day Sweeper
    move 1: SolarBeam
    move 2: Weather Ball / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Sleep Powder / Sunny Day
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Victreebel is usually too fragile to set up Sunny Day on its own, so it's best to have a sturdier team member use it and then switch Victreebel in for the sweep. The set is pretty straightforward. SolarBeam is a one-turn move in the sun and it will be Victreebel's main form of attacking on this set. In sunlight, Weather Ball is a Fire-type attack. This allows you to manhandle Steel-types switching in to Victreebel. It also hits Grass/Poison-types harder than Sludge Bomb would. However, Sludge Bomb hits Fire- and Flying-types more harshly, who will switch in to absorb SolarBeam as well. The last slot is personal preference. Sleep Powder will incapacitate an incoming counter. Sunny Day can be used if your initial Sunny Day user is out of the picture and you need some backup to be safe. You could also run Hidden Power Ice in the one of the last slots to hit Altaria for more damage.</p>

    <p>The EVs allow you to outspeed max Speed base 95 Pokémon with a Choice Scarf when Sunny Day is active.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In order for the Sunny Day sweeper to successfully function, one needs to make sure opposing weather changers are out of the picture. Luckily, Victreebel has the tools to take on all weather changers. All Rain Dance users are taken out by either Sleep Powder or SolarBeam. Snover is taken out in one hit by Hidden Power Fire. Hippopotas is mauled by a combination of Sunny Day and SolarBeam. A Fire-type can pair well with Victreebel to absorb attacks thrown at Victreebel by Pokémon looking to take advantage of Sunny Day. A Steel-type isn't as necessary to be paired with this Victreebel as they are usually hindered by Sunny Day. A way of taking out both Chansey and Clefable, such as Hariyama or Blaziken, is also necessary with this set as they wall it completely.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Growthbel
    move 1: Energy Ball
    move 2: Sludge Bomb
    move 3: Weather Ball / Sleep Powder
    move 4: Growth
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While the boosts aren't as dramatic as with Swords Dance and you're working with the lower of Victreebel's attacking stats, this set's potential cannot be denied. Due to the lighter weight of Pokémon in UU, Energy Ball is preferred over Grass Knot on this set. If Victreebel has Sunny Day support, SolarBeam is also an option. Sludge Bomb will wreck any Grass-types that switch in. Hidden Power Fire is useful for Steel-types that will try to switch in to absorb Energy Ball and Sludge Bomb. Sleep Powder can also be used in this slot to allow Victreebel to use Growth without impediment. Stun Spore is also an option if you already have a sleep inducer on your team.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In order for Growthbel to sweep successfully, Chansey needs to be out of the picture. It is best to have a strong physical sweeper to pair with Victreebel; a strong Fighting-move to overwhelm Chansey is preferable. Again, like all Victreebel sets, a Steel-type is necessary to absorb super effective attacks thrown at, especially if one chooses to go Hidden Power Ice to hit Altaria with over Hidden Power Fire.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Weather Ball
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Sleep Powder / Stun Spore
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Modest
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Victreebel's fragility sometimes makes it too difficult for it to set up. This is remedied by slapping Choice Specs on it, which allows Victreebel to hit hard right away. Unlike the other special sets, Leaf Storm is the prime choice here—Victreebel will be switching in and out so the Special Attack drop isn't as much of a hindrance. Leaf Storm guarantees an OHKO on 252 HP/252 SpD Milotic while Energy Ball only manages a 2HKO. Hidden Power Fire will again hammer any Steel- and Grass/Poison-type switching in to absorb Leaf Storm. If Victreebel has Sunny Day support, Weather Ball is an option as it has a higher Base Power than Hidden Power in the sunlight. And if a sandstorm is brewing, Weather Ball OHKOes 4 HP/0 SpD Altaria 100% of the time with Stealth Rock down. Sludge Bomb will slam any Grass-type that switches in. Sleep Powder is here because Victreebel's special movepool is lacking and it gives general support overall. Stun Spore is also an option as paralysis will help Victreebel or another slow Pokémon sweep later in the game.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Scarf is also a viable item choice, but Victreebel likes the power boost from Choice Specs.</p>

    <p>As with the Sunny Day and Growthbel sets, Chansey is one of this set's biggest threats. Clefable is also another threat that needs to be handled by Victreebel's teammates. Pairing Victreebel with Magneton is helpful as you don't have to rely on Hidden Power Fire to take out opposing Steel-types and focus on using your STAB moves. Like all Choice sets, this set requires prediction. It's essential to have teammates take out threats who could turn the tides of the battle by using one of your mispredictions.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Victreebel has the ability to hit very hard. However, it's incredibly frail and has several common weaknesses. If it lacks Hidden Power Fire and Sludge Bomb on its set, Victreebel will struggle against most Steel- and Grass-types. This is remedied by including Pokémon who are capable of taking on these types.</p>

    <p>First and foremost, it's vital to include a Steel-trapper on any team that includes Victreebel. In UU, the only viable Pokémon with Magnet Pull are Magneton and Probopass. Magneton is preferable due to its higher base Speed and Special Attack, which allows it to 2HKO all UU Steel-types with a combination of Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Fire/Magnet Rise. Magneton is also able to take on the Flying-types that resist Victreebel's main STAB move. Victreebel is also capable of eliminating the Ground-types that wall Magneton, so the two work very well together. However, Victreebel and Magneton both struggle with Fire-types, so a bulky Ground- or Water-type is usually needed as well. Milotic, Quagsire and Nidoqueen perform well in this department. Victreebel and Magneton meanwhile handle any bulky Water-type that may stand in their way. Lastly, a fast Flying- or Fire-type who can take on bulky Grass-types is also important for Victreebel's survival. Blaziken, Moltres and Swellow perform well in this department. All three can take on Pokémon like Venusaur and Sceptile with Fire Blast and Brave Bird respectively. Stealth Rock is also important to Victreebel's success. Pinsir serves this role well, as it can also take on the Grass-types who trouble Victreebel.</p>

    <p>Victreebel also likes Sunny Day support, as each set would like the Speed boost provided by Sunny Day. Uxie, Mesprit, and Ambipom are all decent Sunny Day users in UU. Arcanine can be used as well due to its moderate bulk and its immunity to Fire-type attacks, which couples well with Victreebel's weaknesses.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>A Choice Band set (Leaf Blade/Return/Sucker Punch/Sleep Powder) is viable, but it is usually outclassed by the Swords Dance and SubSalac sets. Victreebel has several support options available. Teeter Dance works alongside Stun Spore to leave the opponent with a small chance of attacking. Knock Off is an unique move that robs the opponent of its item. Reflect gives more team support. Gastro Acid and Worry Seed can mess with Pokémon who rely on their ability. Synthesis provides healing, but Victreebel is rather fragile so it doesn't make great use of it. If you use Synthesis, it's best used in a Sunny Day team. Victreebel can also run a Mixed set with Leaf Blade/Sucker Punch/Hidden Power Fire or Weather Ball/Sleep Powder. This set prefers Sunny Day support. On the SubSalac set, Liechi Berry is a viable option. You would also use Sucker Punch over Return as you are losing the Speed boost.</p>

    <p>For most sets, it's easiest to just max out the attacking stat Victreebel is using for that set and max out its Speed. On the SubSalac set, 12 HP EVs bring Victreebel to 304 HP, which is divisible by four and allows Salac Berry to activate after using Substitute three times.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Steel-types resist everything Victreebel throws out bar the occasional Hidden Power Fire. Registeel in particular gives Victreebel trouble. It can switch in with impunity on the physical-based sets and incapacitate Victreebel with Thunder Wave. Steelix can switch in on the SubSalac set and Roar away its boosts. Magneton also switches in easily and KOeswith Hidden Power Ice or Hidden Power Fire. Chansey manhandles any special-based set. Venusaur and Tangrowth can switch in on a Leaf Blade and KO Victreebel with Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power Fire respectively. Essentially, any fast Fire- or Flying-type that can survive Sucker Punch that switches in safely will force Victreebel out. The frailer ones have to watch when switching in on Leaf Blade with its high critical hit rate, as it can easily KO Pokémon like Blaziken and Swellow in one hit.</p>
  2. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,580
    I think you should definately add a Choice Scarf set, because Roserade doesnt have the option of using Physical attacks on it.

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Leaf Storm / Leaf Blade
    move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Sleep Powder / Sucker Punch
    item: Choice Scarf

    Something like that.
  3. yoshi!

    yoshi!

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,398
    In the Team options part:

    Doesn't need the "any set as the". Also, maybe you can elaborate on this part (ie what pokemon can effectively set up Sunny Day and pros and cons of those?).
  4. Loquacity

    Loquacity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    Well, I believe a set like that would be more effective with a Life Orb instead of Choice Scarf. I was thinking of adding it, but I hadn't tested it yet, so I was unwilling to add it to the analysis.

    Oh thank you for that. I elaborated more and fixed that error.
  5. RBG

    RBG But I keep cruising, can't stop, won't stop grooving.
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Facebook Manager

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,350
    Team options needs to be added to each set, PM a mod here when that is done so we can reopen this.
  6. Loquacity

    Loquacity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    Updated with what DP-Crobat required of me.
  7. Kier

    Kier

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,020
  8. Loquacity

    Loquacity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    Thanks Foreys. Grammar isn't my strong suit, so I hoping someone would point out my errors. Added what you suggested.
  9. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2008
    Messages:
    6,171
  10. Loquacity

    Loquacity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    Updated with Misaki's edits.
  11. Loquacity

    Loquacity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    Wow, that's the exact set I was using in my UU matches lately. Thanks for the write-up. I'll add it in now.
  12. Zoro

    Zoro

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    1,278
    Victreebell is NU actually so does this have to be closed ? Ima not tryin to be an ass, but on the same page, there is an analysis to Sandslash which was closed due to Sandslash being NU and not UU ( Sandslash had around 1300 usages, Victreebell around 500 ).
    The only difference I see is ( between the grammar mistakes the Sandslash analysis has ) is that this one is referring to UU while the former isnt... sry if ima wrong =S
  13. Loquacity

    Loquacity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    I believe the issue with the Sandslash revamp was that the original poster was gearing the entire revamp towards solely the NU tier while they were supposed to be geared towards the UU metagame itself. I'm sure a staff member could correct me if I'm wrong.
  14. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,172
    These set descriptions aren't bad, but the team options really need to be fleshed out a bit more to bring it on par with the other analyses.

    Let me give you some examples:

    What pokemon can take out those Steel-types so that Victreebel can sweep? You should give mention to specific pokemon, not just the "type" of pokemon you're looking for. In this case you are looking for something like Moltres, Blaziken or a surprise HP Fire Roserade to take those Steels out.

    Not every pokemon that learns a Fighting move can counter Chansey....you need to mention specific things.

    This is almost ready to go on site, it just needs the Team Options paragraphs of the sets to be more complete.
  15. Diesel

    Diesel

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,945
    Not to contribute to the grave-digging here, but if this analysis is still being worked on or considered for the site, then I think (almost) all of the sets should be stressing Sunny Day support, since this is just about the only thing that allows Victreebel yo avoid being completely outclassed by Venusaur.
  16. Loquacity

    Loquacity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    Okay, I'm back. And I'm reviving this to let everyone know I'm back to update it. I need to:


    • Remove references to former UU Pokemon (Roserade, Shaymin, etc.)
    • Explain why to use it over other SD Grass-types like Venusaur and Sceptile
    Would you rather me update in this thread or post a new one?
  17. Flora

    Flora Yep, that tasted purple!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Messages:
    7,651
    Fixes and some comments.

    Show Hide
    Personally, I'd rearrange the sentence to "outspeed and easily knock Victreebel out". I just don't like how the current version sounds out.

    Spacing problem after the comma there in the fifth sentence.


    Speed is missing its capitalization.

    When listing types like how you did it, you need to put hyphens with them.

    BP should be spelled out entirely to Base Power.

    "than" > "then" in the last part since it's a comparison.

    Shaymin is banned now. Also, since this is for UU, directing this toward Venusaur instead of Vileplume would make much more sense. So I guess you can you just mention "Grass-types like Venusaur".

    Hyphen problems.

    Avoid the "same starting word in sentences" repetition. I just rearranged the "also" to the start so avoid repetition.

    Typo with "which" in the fifth sentence.

    I am not sure if "base" should be capitalized or not, but you're both capitalizing and lower-casing it. Throughout the analysis, you've put it as lowercase, so I think you should lowercase the "base" that is before "125".

    Misuse of "your" here.

    "you can" just didn't flow right. A replacement of "to" makes more sense.

    Speed needs to be capitalized.

    Hyphen problem.

    Hyphen problems.

    The part I changed got too vague. "hard" was getting too overused so a synonym change was appreciative.

    Capitalization problem and a missing word.

    There's not much to change here, but I'd like to see what "ways" there could be to take care of the two special sponges there. Perhaps the addition of a Fighter will make this less shady.

    "sleep inducer" should be lower cased.

    You mention Hidden Power Ice here yet there isn't any talk about its usage over Hidden Power Fire anywhere. I think you should add in why one might prefer Hidden Power Ice over Fire in certain scenarios, perhaps in the first paragraph here.

    I don't know; I just didn't like "the option" here. I think there needs to be more emphasize on how great an option Leaf Storm is over Energy Ball.

    Hyphen problem.

    Roserade is now banned, so this part probably needs a revamp.

    Physical should be lowercase.

    The one in deep blue should be removed; it's an extra word that screws the sentence.
    EDIT: Actually, this is fine if you want to keep it with "that" now that I read it again.

    It felt like there was a word missing in the last sentence.

    Is this set going to be split into an OU analysis? I've put edits for it anyways. If not, then I think you should stop mentioning OU targets and go specifically toward UU.

    I did some grammar changes, but as mentioned last paragraph, the OU comments should probably be cut off for UU comments. I'll include this for the next paragraph as well so I don't keep repeating myself.

    I'll just talk about the last two part ("peaked" and "in comparison"). The sentence was really hard to understand, but I think the changes I made will make it sound out better.

    I think the "thanks" part is killing the sentence... but if nothing feels right, I'd just delete the part altogether because it's really not flowing.

    Crobat can probably be replaced by Moltres (if so, then Fire Blast needs to have a "respectively" part alongside Brave Bird) and the Grass-types can be Venusaur and Tangrowth? Sceptile could get a mention too perhaps.

    Capitalization problem.

    I just think the added words of "as well" makes the sentence less dull.

    Just some word errors, a capitalization, and sentence flow fixes.

    Blue banned Pokemon. Probably just replace them with Venusaur.

    Maybe you should add that a majority of these counters should watch out for Sleep Powder.


    I'll be checking on some more. I'm just posting just in case some magical power outage comes out.

    I personally think you should just continue this thread. There really isn't much point in making a new thread unless you like the idea of "freshness".
  18. pokemon

    pokemon

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    324
    Shouldn't Weather Ball be an option on the 2 Sunny Day sets? It has a higher base power and does a lot more to Steels.

    Damage Calculations:

    Victreebel vs Standard UU Tank Registeel

    Sunny Day Sweeper Set with Weather Ball: 61% - 72%

    Victorybell Set with Weather Ball: 50.5% - 59.9%

    Sunny Day Sweeper set with HP fire: 42.9% - 50.5%

    Victorybell set with HP fire: 35.2% - 41.8%


    As you can see with Weather Ball the 2 sets I mentioned can both 2HKO Registeel, while with HP fire only the Sunny Day Sweeper set can 2HKO Registeel with 2 layers of Spikes down. You can't win one on one but you can win if Registeel switches into a Weather Ball, which you can then proceed to KO it with another Weather Ball.
  19. Loquacity

    Loquacity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    This was written before Victreebel had Weather Ball in its move pool. I'm still writing up my final touches and adding in AromaFlora's edits. Expect it to be finished today.

    Alright, all the edits have been added.
  20. Loquacity

    Loquacity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    I only eliminated it because I've never used the set before and the person who had written it before didn't do a very good job. And since I don't have much experience with the set, I felt I couldn't effectively write it on my own. So if someone else wants to write it up (stick to UU advantages for now), go right ahead.
  21. Xia

    Xia aka Lone Gansel
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,464
    Overview (open)

    <p>Although Venusaur's popularity as a Swords Dancer may cast a shadow over Victreebel, it does have a few defining differences. It has a higher base Attack stat than Venusaur. Victreebel's access to Leaf Blade's high critical hit ratio may make the difference when hitting Pokémon like Swellow or Blaziken on the switch. Victreebel also has Chlorophyll, which makes it a better fit in Sunny Day teams then Venusaur. Sucker Punch also provides Victreebel with a priority move, something that Venusaur lacks. While Victreebel is very frail, it can switch in on a predicted Leech Seed or Toxic unscathed. Victreebel is an underrated sweeper that few teams prepare for.</p>


    Swords Dance (open)

    <p>With an Attack stat of 339 and an amazing STAB move in Leaf Blade, Victreebel has the ability to be a very potent physical sweeper in UU. If it manages to use Swords Dance, it has the ability to deal between 51%-60% to 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix with Leaf Blade. Sucker Punch helps take out faster enemies who outspeed Victreebel and easily knock it out. Sleep Powder and Encore are both present on the set in hopes of letting Victreebel get in a free Swords Dance. Sleep Powder is the first choice on the set, but Sleep Powder's accuracy is an issue and a miss can spell the end of Victreebel's sweep. Due to this, it's best to switch Victreebel in on something you know will switch out, like Quagsire, and hope Sleep Powder will hit the incoming counter. Encore requires a bit more prediction, but it can be useful when you switch in on a Leech Seed or Toxic.</p>


    Sunny Day Sweeper (open)

    <p>Victreebel is usually too fragile to set up Sunny Day on its own, so it's best to have a sturdier team member use it and then switch Victreebel in for the sweep. The set is pretty straightforward. SolarBeam is a one-turn move in the sun and it will be Victreebel's main form of attacking on this set. In sunlight, Weather Ball is a Fire-type attack. This allows you to manhandle Steel-types switching in to Victreebel. It also hits Grass/Poison-types harder than Sludge Bomb would. However, Sludge Bomb hits Fire- and Flying-types more harshly, who will switch in to absorb SolarBeam as well. The last slot is personal preference. Sleep Powder will incapacitate an incoming counter. Sunny Day can be used if your initial Sunny Day user is out of the picture and you need some backup to be safe. You could also run Hidden Power Ice in the one of the last slots to hit Altaria for more damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In order for the Sunny Day sweeper to successfully function, one needs to make sure opposing weather changers are out of the picture. Luckily, Victreebel has the tools to take on all weather changers. All Rain Dance users are taken out by either Sleep Powder or SolarBeam. Snover is taken out in one hit by Hidden Power Fire. Hippopotas is mauled by a combination of Sunny Day and SolarBeam [the way you had them listed implied SolarBeam would be used first]. A Fire-type can pair well with Victreebel to absorb attacks thrown at Victreebel by Pokémon looking to take advantage of Sunny Day. A Steel-type isn't as necessary to be paired with this Victreebel as they are usually hindered by Sunny Day. A way of taking out both Chansey and Clefable, such as Hariyama or Blaziken, is also necessary with this set as they wall it completely.</p>


    Growthbel (open)

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In order for Growthbel to sweep successfully, Chansey needs to be out of the picture. It is best to have a strong physical sweeper to pair with Victreebel; a strong Fighting-move to overwhelm Chansey is preferable. Again, like all Victreebel sets, a Steel-type is necessary to absorb super effective attacks thrown at, especially if one chooses to go Hidden Power Ice to hit Altaria with over Hidden Power Fire.</p>


    Choice (open)

    <p>Victreebel's fragility sometimes makes it too difficult for it to set up. This is remedied by slapping Choice Specs on it, which allows Victreebel to hit hard right away. Unlike the other special sets, Leaf Storm is the prime choice here—Victreebel will be switching in and out so the Special Attack drop isn't as much of a hindrance. Leaf Storm guarantees an OHKO on max HP and Special Defense Milotic while Energy Ball only manages a 2HKO. Hidden Power Fire will again hammer any Steel- and Grass/Poison-type switching in to absorb Leaf Storm. If Victreebel has Sunny Day support, Weather Ball is an option as it has a higher Base Power than Hidden Power in the sunlight. And if sandstorm is brewing, Weather Ball OHKOes 4 HP Altaria 100% of the time with Stealth Rock down. Sludge Bomb will slam any Grass-type that switches in. Sleep Powder is here because Victreebel's special movepool is lacking and it gives general support overall. Stun Spore is also an option as paralysis will help Victreebel or another slow Pokémon sweep later in the game.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As with the Sunny Day and Growthbel sets, Chansey is one of this set's biggest threats. Clefable is also another threat that needs to be handled by Victreebel's teammates. Pairing Victreebel with Magneton is helpful as you don't have to rely on Hidden Power Fire to take out opposing Steel-types and focus on using your STAB moves. Like all Choice sets, this set requires prediction. It's essential to have teammates take out threats who could turn the tides of the battle by using one of your mispredictions.</p>


    Team Options (open)

    <p>First and foremost, it's vital to include a Steel-trapper on any team that includes Victreebel. In UU, the only viable Pokémon with Magnet Pull are Magneton and Probopass. Magneton is preferable due to its higher base Speed and Special Attack, which allows it to 2HKO all UU Steel-types with a combination of Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Fire/Magnet Rise. Magneton is also able to take on the Flying-types that resist Victreebel's main STAB move. Victreebel is also capable of eliminating the Ground-types that wall Magneton, so the two work very well together. However, Victreebel and Magneton both struggle with Fire-types, so a bulky Ground- or Water-type is usually needed as well. Milotic, Quagsire and Nidoqueen perform well in this department. Victreebel and Magneton meanwhile handle any bulky Water-type that may stand in their way. Lastly, a fast Flying- or Fire-type who can take on bulky Grass-types is also important for Victreebel's survival. Blaziken, Moltres and Swellow perform well in this department. All three can take on Pokémon like Venusaur and Sceptile with Fire Blast and Brave Bird respectively. Stealth Rock is also important to Victreebel's success. Pinsir serves this role well, as it can also take on the Grass-types who trouble Victreebel.</p>


    Optional Changes (open)

    <p>A Choice Band set (Leaf Blade/Return/Sucker Punch/Sleep Powder [for consistency]) is viable, but it is usually outclassed by the Swords Dance and SubSalac sets. Victreebel has several support options available. Victreebel can also run a mixed set with Leaf Blade/Sucker Punch/Hidden Power Fire or Weather Ball/Sleep Powder. This set prefers Sunny Day support. Teeter Dance works alongside Stun Spore to leave the opponent with a small chance of attacking. Knock Off is an unique move that robs the opponent of its item. Reflect gives more team support. Gastro Acid and Worry Seed can mess with Pokémon who rely on their ability. Synthesis provides healing, but Victreebel is rather fragile so it doesn't make great use of it. If you use Synthesis, it's best used in a Sunny Day team. On the SubSalac set, Liechi Berry is a viable option. You would also use Sucker Punch over Return as you are losing the Speed boost.</p>

    <p>For most sets, it's easiest to just max out the attacking stat Victreebel is using for that set and max out its Speed. On the SubSalac set, 12 HP EVs bring Victreebel to 304 HP, which is divisible by four and allows Salac Berry to activate after using Substitute three times.</p>


    Counters (open)

    <p>Steel-types resist everything Victreebel throws out bar the occasional Hidden Power Fire. Registeel in particular gives Victreebel trouble. It can switch in with impunity on the physical-based sets and incapacitate Victreebel with Thunder Wave. Steelix can switch in on the SubSalac set and Roar away its boosts. Magneton also switches in easily and KOes with Hidden Power Ice or Hidden Power Fire. Chansey manhandles any special-based set. Venusaur and Tangrowth can switch in on a Leaf Blade and KO Victreebel with Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power Fire respectively. Essentially, any fast Fire- or Flying-type that can survive Sucker Punch that switches in safely will force Victreebel out. The frailer ones have to watch when switching in on Leaf Blade with its high critical hit rate, as it can easily KO Pokémon like Blaziken and Swellow in one hit. [removed some of the less viable/less seen counters]</p>
  22. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
    is a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,153
    For optional changes, I think the sentence order should be switched around a bit.

    Like this:
    As you have it now, you mention support options and then have some random sentence about a mixed set. I propose putting the stuff from Teeter Dance through Synthesis after you mention support options so you elaborate on that point. What you have now is slightly confusing.
  23. Loquacity

    Loquacity

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    Thanks again Xia for that. I appreciate it.

    And thanks Age. I never liked the way that was worded either, so I appreciate the suggestion.
  24. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,269
    Yeah, this needs a LOT of concision work. You can't just slip [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] tags in the middle of the analysis and assume that it's worked out.

    If you need more information, consult the announcement thread or PM me.
  25. twash

    twash
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,330
    Please refer to this thread for the latest Victreebel update, thanks.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)