Good idea.I'd put Flame Charge as a plus. That makes it a viable AV'er with the ability to outspeed physical attackers after a boost or two.
I'll put it in now.
Good idea.I'd put Flame Charge as a plus. That makes it a viable AV'er with the ability to outspeed physical attackers after a boost or two.
Methinks you are underestimating just how good steam eruption is. Simply put, very few mons will want to swap into a steam eruption, regardless of typing or stats. Imagine a bulkier, slower specs keldeo that didn't have to choose between hydro pump or scald and has even better duel STAB coverage (as if keldeo's wasn't good enough), as well as legitimate coverage options besides HP (not that he needs them).I still think that some form of Specs set will be the best, AV is bad because Rock weakness, Scarf will be /ok/ and a Will-O or Toxic set would have potential if it was faster. Is no one thinking about a SpDef set? Burn covers his physical bulk and he has the typing and ability to wall nearly any bulky Water-type in OU outside Rotom.
It would probably be something like
Volcanion @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 80 SpDef / 180 Spe
Calm Nature
- Steam Eruption / Sleep Talk
- Toxic
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Sleep Talk
- Rest
Though possibly not as much Speed, that creeps standard Rotom. Its only true flaw is Speed and no recovery, and it doesn't have amazing synergy with Wishpassers, but this thing won't be amazing in OU anyway. Not Diancie bad, just not amazing.
With these stats and its movepool, Volcanion is definitely not going to be a one trick pony. It has the potential to run numerous sets, with its best one, imo, being a choice specs set.Among the three legendaries Volcanion is the one I have most confident in to be a top tier threat. Even if it ends up being outclassed by Heatran for the most part I think carrying the best water attack for his signature attack is good enough reason for it to be OU material.
I just hope it won't be a one trick pony and will be able to carry more coverage moves, just so we can see this guy's potential realized.
If it's going to be a defensive set, shouldn't it have regular ol' scald? Sure, steam eruption is nice and powerful, but it wouldn't be too good if it were to run out early, especially on a stall team.I still think that some form of Specs set will be the best, AV is bad because Rock weakness, Scarf will be /ok/ and a Will-O or Toxic set would have potential if it was faster. Is no one thinking about a SpDef set? Burn covers his physical bulk and he has the typing and ability to wall nearly any bulky Water-type in OU outside Rotom.
It would probably be something like
Volcanion @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 80 SpDef / 180 Spe
Calm Nature
- Steam Eruption / Sleep Talk
- Toxic
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Sleep Talk
- Rest
Though possibly not as much Speed, that creeps standard Rotom. Its only true flaw is Speed and no recovery, and it doesn't have amazing synergy with Wishpassers, but this thing won't be amazing in OU anyway. Not Diancie bad, just not amazing.
I guess it would have a better dual STAB than Keldeo, considering each type covers each others resistances. However, having your STABs being resisted by dragons sucks.Methinks you are underestimating just how good steam eruption is. Simply put, very few mons will want to swap into a steam eruption, regardless of typing or stats. Imagine a bulkier, slower specs keldeo that didn't have to choose between hydro pump or scald and has even better duel STAB coverage (as if keldeo's wasn't good enough), as well as legitimate coverage options besides HP (not that he needs them).
Steam Eruption isn't really spammable; it's got 8 PP, sadly.After reading some comments... How in the world is this Pokémon mediocre? It has two solid STABs in Water and Fire, 3 x4 resistances along with only 3 weaknesses. Steam Eruption is, without doubt, one of the best and more spamishing moves in the entire game, to the point that i'm not lying if i say that move alone justifies his use. This is going to be one of the top OU threats.
No, it needs the extra power, and if it ever runs out (which if hopefully played right it shouldn't) then half the other team will probably be burned anyway. The power difference is hugeIf it's going to be a defensive set, shouldn't it have regular ol' scald? Sure, steam eruption is nice and powerful, but it wouldn't be too good if it were to run out early, especially on a stall team.
While I do agree with you, and the power difference is obvious, I still think it would depend on the type of team it's being used on. On balanced/offense, Steam Eruption would be the only way to go. On stall, either one works, but considering the fact that it's stall, the team is bound to last for quite a while and Steam Eruption lacks the PP, so scald could be an option. I'm not saying you shouldn't use steam eruption on a stall team, just that the extra PP could be useful later on in the match.No, it needs the extra power, and if it ever runs out (which if hopefully played right it shouldn't) then half the other team will probably be burned anyway. The power difference is huge
I agree that volc isn't great on stall (heck, even vap would work better due to being able to provide wish support), but as a wall I think it works fine. Starmie really isn't OU, slowbro rarely runs tbolt, usually opting for fire blast or ice beam instead, and rotom-w is but one mon that cannot run scald anyway, so for most OU water types he checks out. He can also wall darn near any fire type lacking EQ or a similar coverage move, is a hard azu counter, counters fairies in general, stops scizor, and has relatively few weaknesses allowing it to check many other threats.I don't think Volcanion is cut out for stall. You want a water type that can burn and recover it's own health? That's what Slowbro and Alomomola, and to a lesser extent, Starmie and Jellicent are for. If you've managed to use 8 Steam Eruptions in a match and half their team isn't dead and burned then you're doing something wrong. I also don't see it walling all Water pokemon as ones like Slowbro, Rotom-W and Starmie can carry Thunderbolt.
I don't think Volcanion is cut out for stall. You want a water type that can burn and recover it's own health? That's what Slowbro and Alomomola, and to a lesser extent, Starmie and Jellicent are for. If you've managed to use 8 Steam Eruptions in a match and half their team isn't dead and burned then you're doing something wrong. I also don't see it walling all Water pokemon as ones like Slowbro, Rotom-W and Starmie can carry Thunderbolt.
Point taken. In that case, I don't think the term 'wall' would be fitting for it. Instead, tank seems like it'd be a better role for it, or maybe even pivot.I agree that volc isn't great on stall (heck, even vap would work better due to being able to provide wish support), but as a wall I think it works fine. Starmie really isn't OU, slowbro rarely runs tbolt, usually opting for fire blast or ice beam instead, and rotom-w is but one mon that cannot run scald anyway, so for most OU water types he checks out. He can also wall darn near any fire type lacking EQ or a similar coverage move, is a hard azu counter, counters fairies in general, stops scizor, and has relatively few weaknesses allowing it to check many other threats.
Volc's real value is his ability to absorb scalds while firing back his super scald, which is something no other wall can attest to and is invaluable to bulky offense (remember those "lets ban scald" discussions from late gen 5? Having a viable scald absorber besides AV durr would help a lot).
Also, I think you meant "dead OR burned".
Literally all this thing will be doing will be spamming Steam Eruption so just run Specs, or perhaps Life Orb mixed if you want to Flare Blitz Chansey.Volcanion @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 80 SpAtk / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Toxic
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / (Lava Plume please GameFreak?)
- Substitute
I think this is probably Volcanion's best shot in OU, and after reading some posts, I agree that rocks weakness definitely makes Assault Vest a sub-optimal choice at best. I also really doubt that Choice Specs sets will be that great, it's STAB attacks are far too easy to switch into, and I doubt that it's coverage will be good enough to compensate, since I really don't see this thing getting anything like freeze dry to kill the water and dragon types that will shrug off it's attacks. I see this pokemon being a nice asset for balance and bulky offense teams, but ultimately, I think it will end up in UU or maybe BL, but I doubt it will get banned from UU when they allow Haxorus and Hydreigon to run around. Yes steam eruption is quite awesome, but I fail to see this as better than a C+ ranked mon, as for most (MOST NOT ALL) niches it could fill it will be outclassed by our OU mainstay Heatran.
A rule of thumb, don't hit Chansey with powerful recoil moves.Literally all this thing will be doing will be spamming Steam Eruption so just run Specs, or perhaps Life Orb mixed if you want to Flare Blitz Chansey.
Regardless it's hard to validate using this thing at all over something like, Keldeo
Trading Volcanion for Chansey is far better than letting Chansey simply not give a shit.A rule of thumb, don't hit Chansey with powerful recoil moves.
It seems largely unnecessary considering OU is full of mixed attackers that can dismantle Chansey without sacrificing themselves, why would you want to create a niche sacrificial lure rather than simply playing to the pokemon's strengths and letting 1 of the 5 other pokemon on your team handle the blob outside of extremely specific teambuilding conditions?Trading Volcanion for Chansey is far better than letting Chansey simply not give a shit.
Obviously depends on the team. If my team benefits from making Vocanion able to two shot Chansey then I will gladly do it. If the rest of my team doesn't give a shit about Chansey it might be worth it to use Specs. Of course both situations can be covered by just running Keldeo who besides not being able to handle Azumarill as effectively and having a little less bulk seems to be the superior choice otherwise.It seems largely unnecessary considering OU is full of mixed attackers that can dismantle Chansey without sacrificing themselves, why would you want to create a niche sacrificial lure rather than simply playing to the pokemon's strengths and letting 1 of the 5 other pokemon on your team handle the blob outside of extremely specific teambuilding conditions?
Which goes along with my entire point. If what you need on your team is "strong water type specs attacker which also beats Chansey" then you shouldn't be running Volcanion in the first place and you should run Keldeo. Purposely choosing an inefficient sacrificial set for Volcanion when another does its job objectively better, rather than playing to Volcanion's strengths is idiotic. If you want a powerful special attacker which also happens to beat Chansey, don't use volcanion to begin with rather than a flimsy suicidal lure.Of course both situations can be covered by just running Keldeo who besides not being able to handle Azumarill as effectively and having a little less bulk seems to be the superior choice otherwise.
Currently they don't run it, but if Volcanion gets popular you can bet you'll start to see it more often.I agree that volc isn't great on stall (heck, even vap would work better due to being able to provide wish support), but as a wall I think it works fine. Starmie really isn't OU, slowbro rarely runs tbolt, usually opting for fire blast or ice beam instead, and rotom-w is but one mon that cannot run scald anyway, so for most OU water types he checks out. He can also wall darn near any fire type lacking EQ or a similar coverage move, is a hard azu counter, counters fairies in general, stops scizor, and has relatively few weaknesses allowing it to check many other threats.
I'm sorry, but since when is an ever stronger version of Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump with a 30% burn chance easy to switch into? Yeah, Dragonite may be bulky and resist water, but I assure you it doesn't want the Burn.I think this is probably Volcanion's best shot in OU, and after reading some posts, I agree that rocks weakness definitely makes Assault Vest a sub-optimal choice at best. I also really doubt that Choice Specs sets will be that great, it's STAB attacks are far too easy to switch into, and I doubt that it's coverage will be good enough to compensate, since I really don't see this thing getting anything like freeze dry to kill the water and dragon types that will shrug off it's attacks. I see this pokemon being a nice asset for balance and bulky offense teams, but ultimately, I think it will end up in UU or maybe BL, but I doubt it will get banned from UU when they allow Haxorus and Hydreigon to run around. Yes steam eruption is quite awesome, but I fail to see this as better than a C+ ranked mon, as for most (MOST NOT ALL) niches it could fill it will be outclassed by our OU mainstay Heatran.