Volcarona【QC: 2/3】

All right, so the new strategy dex is going up very soon and there are several Pokemon, including this one, that do not currently have completed analyses. Trinitrotoluene, if you could please try to make this look presentable within the next day, that would be helpful. Please contact user darkie once you've made it look presentable (by that I mean "acceptable to be on-site") and refer to and update this pirate pad: https://www.piratepad.ca/p/dex_skeletons

This needs to be done by tomorrow afternoon (GMT -6), so make sure you get it done! If you can't make it look presentable in the next day, please say so in the pirate pad so someone else can make a quick skeleton of it. Thanks!
 
Mention ChestoRest as an alternative to Roost on the bulky Quiver Dance set. Also, is there a particular reason for the 36 Special Defense EVs? I think it would be better to just keep them in Defense.

In usage tips, stress that Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Azumarill need to be removed in order to sweep.

Mega Charizard Y is a pretty good partner because even though it stacks weaknesses to Rock a lot, it powers up Volcarona's attacks and weakens counters. Zapdos checks the Flying-types that give it trouble and Defogs.

Don't mention Dragalge in the analysis, it's not relevant or viable.

Ew support Volc in OO what. Mention Hurricane sets in rain instead.
 
How about Lum Berry on the Bulky set? You'd lose the passive recovery from Leftovers but you'd be able to avoid a Toxic from a wall while setting up or a T-Wave by something like Thundurus/Klefki while killing them the same turn and continuing your sweep.

I've ran this set quite successfully on both PS and WiFi (no replays saved sadly :( )
 
Mention Unaware Clefable under Checks and Counters, because it walls Volcarona to hell and back. Also, in team options, I know you already have Tyranitar listed, but I'd make specific mention of Pursuit. Aegislash, Tyranitar, Scizor, and Bisharp all do a great job Pursuit-trapping Talonflame locked into Brave Bird, arguably Volcarona's greatest enemy.
 
I think the only issue I have with listing Clefable as a check / counter is that Clefable vs Volcarona (esp bulky Volcarona) is mostly a tie unless Clefable has Toxic or Calm Mind. I dont have an issue adding it but make sure to mention how Clefable threatens bulky Volcarona (offensive Volc are easier to stop).
 
implemented swamp link's and colonel m's advice. i also mentioned pursuit users and charizard-y (w/ stealth rock caveat) in team options on both sets and lum berry in set details of bulky quiver dance.
 
The Bug Buzz buff isn't really Overview material. And I would rephrase the comment about its STABs to say that it has two good STABs, since their coverage together is resisted by a lot of Pokemon.

Literally over half of OU resists Bug Buzz. Change the comment about it hitting most of OU for neutral damage in both sets.

Mention that the Speed also outspeeds Jolly Breloom unboosted.

Giga Drain really isn't anything near reliable recovery on the Offensive set.

Other than these minor things, looks good, well done!

Stamp.gif


QC 1/3
 
Last edited:
Unless I missed it, Flame Body should be mentioned for its ability to discourage physical contact moves, as well as that it can be used proactively to potentially pnish physical attackers as you switch in on a resisted move esp with the bulky set since it can actually stomach physical hits.

Ive burned a lot of Scizor doing that, poor Uturn spamming bastards.
 
Well, Flame Body is its only released ability, but I agree that the nice side effect should be mentioned.

Also, I was thinking and I don't know how effective this would be yet, but I want to test Offensive Volcarona with Hurricane in the last slot, which allows it to hit everything in OU neutrally except for Heatran. It doesn't have to be in rain, people deal with Focus Blast's accuracy. I'll get back to you on this, but you can try it.
 
is Swarm unreleased? I know for a fact larvesta is available in the Friend Safarai in XY
 
Oh, another thing I wanted to mention as food for thought, currently Bulky Volc hits 264 spe. Max spe Mega Ttar hits 265, iirc. While muddling around low on the ladder I havent had to deal with very many mega ttar, so Im not sure how common it is higher up, and im quite sure an unboosted or even a +1 volc could not OHKO mega ttar, however seeing as its only a skip away, would it be wrth it for volc to run a wee bit more speed on the off chance it has to kill a weakened mega ttar when it has no boosts?


Edit:
Just checked, Jolly 252 Spe Mega TTar hits 265, so 266 was the speed Bulky Volc would want to hit
 
Last edited:
According to Serebii, Swarm Volcarona is available, so I think you're right, Ash Borer. It probably at least deserves an Other Options mention. Flame Body's probably the better ability overall since you can punish Azumarill's Aqua Jet/Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack/Dragonite's Extremespeed/etc. with a burn, and since both sets have some sort of recovery (assuming you're running Giga Drain on the offensive set), there's a lower chance that Volcarona's HP will be low enough to activate Swarm. Still, Swarm-boosted Bug Buzzes can really hurt, so there's merit to it.
 
thanks for the qc approval, swamp link! i just need one more before i start writing.

e @ below: changes made.
 
Last edited:
Overview said:
Coverage moves can catch normal counters off-guard
Click to expand...
Small thing, I don't think this is really a point to make in the overview, it's not a big deal.

And please change the comment about Bug Buzz's neutral coverage
 
comments about bug buzz having great neutral coverage (lol, what is wrong with me?) have been changed. thanks for qc stamp #2, colonel m. i will start writing this up soon.

e: shit, thanks for the quick catch trc.!
 
Alright, I tested Hurricane, and I found that Offensive Volcarona in general is very inferior to Bulky Volcarona. When I was using it, I often found myself wanting Roost, and the coverage of an extra move was not helpful. I tested out Giga Drain and the Hidden Powers too, but I just consistently found that having Roost makes Volcarona's life way easier. It allows Volcarona to actually switch in more than once when Stealth Rock is up, and set up on stuff like Rotom-W that it normally wouldn't. Unless you have a convincing argument not to, I want you to move the Offensive Quiver Dance set to OO.
 
Spirit said:
Okay, so I'm not too fond of the current spread. What you're aiming to outspeed initially isn't good (jolly cloyster and breloom...), what you're trying to outspeed at +1 is an nonexistent benchmark (130s), and the +2 example isn't that great either (scarf latios). The fastest you need to go is to outspeed Timid Greninja at +1, which lets you achieve some other important benchmarks at +2 such as max speed Deo-S after two independent boosts. Conveniently, these EVs can also outspeed Adamant Breloom and Cloyster with no boosts (not that relevant, but moreso when compared to their jolly counterparts). The spread I've been using to achieve the above is of the following: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe Bold nature. In comparison to the current spread, this one gives Volc +7 points in Defense and +2 in HP, but with a more focused speed benchmark with some important threats in mind. Personally, I'd like to see the current spread replaced with the one I suggested and I'd like the benchmarks mentioned in set details to subsequently change to more significant Pokemon (Greninja at +1; Deo-S at +2). If anyone in QC has a problem with this suggested spread (or you, Trinitrotoluene), feel free to object, but I find the current Speed EVs to be a waste and the general EV layout not as optimal as it should be.
Click to expand...

I agree except make it maybe 68 Spe so you still outspeed Deo-S when it's max speed (with 64 speed you tie max speed Deo-S at +2 if I'm not mistaken) and with how common Deo-S has been lately I think max speed will become the standard spread for them as 4 Atk or 20 Atk doesn't make as much of a difference as speed tieing opposing Deo-S's or always getting outsped by them.

160 Spe is another possiblity to outspeed Adamant max speed Exacdrill but this will probably compromise bulk too much.
 
Spirit said:
Incorrect. Boosting one stat once at a time versus boosting it twice at once is different. It's current speed with 64 Speed EVs is 252. Now, after one Quiver Dance, (252 x 1.5) it reaches a speed stat of 378. After another Quiver Dance, you take the 378 and multiply it by 1.5 again to which you get 567 speed versus Deoxys-S' 504 max. If Volcarona boosted its speed by two stages in one turn, you would be correct because 2 x 252 = 504, which is essentially speed tying with max Speed Deoxys-S. That's not the case, however, as you can see.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure this isn't how boosting works...

Evidence: Bulbapedia's damage modifier formula

Also: On Pokemon Showdown, a +1 boost is referred to as a x1.5 increase. If that same stat is boosted by a single stage again, it is displayed as x2, and then x2.5, x3, etc. If it were a 1.5 boost multiplied rather than added, it would be displayed as x2.25, x3.375, etc. I believe multiplication only occurs in the event of boosts that are achieved with different methods (e.g. Hustle Durant uses Hone Claws, it now has an effective attack stat of 317*1.5*1.5.)

In the damage calculator as well, there is no option for a +1 +1 boost, only a +2 boost, implying they have the same quantity. So yes, Volcarona needs to increase its speed in order to not Speed-tie with Deoxys-S.
 
Spirit said:
Incorrect. Boosting one stat once at a time versus boosting it twice at once is different. It's current speed with 64 Speed EVs is 252. Now, after one Quiver Dance, (252 x 1.5) it reaches a speed stat of 378. After another Quiver Dance, you take the 378 and multiply it by 1.5 again to which you get 567 speed versus Deoxys-S' 504 max. If Volcarona boosted its speed by two stages in one turn, you would be correct because 2 x 252 = 504, which is essentially speed tying with max Speed Deoxys-S. That's not the case, however, as you can see.
Click to expand...

No, this is not how stat boosts work. Boosts like that of Quiver Dance are not strict modifiers; they boost a stat a certain number of stages (in this case, one stage for SpA, SpD, and Spe). The six stages of stat modification work up in a stairstep. +1 is 1.5x the original stat, +2 is 2x the original stat, +3 is 2.5x the original stat, all the way up to +6, which is 4x the original stat. It doesn't matter if they are obtained all at once or over the course of a few turns.

That said, Mitchhhhh is right. You need 68 Spe to outspeed Deoxys-S at +2. Not sure how relevant this is since Deoxys-S can't really scratch a Volcarona at +2 SpD without Rock Slide or something, but if QC decides that Deoxys-S is an important enough target to hit, that's the benchmark you'll need.

EDIT: Dang it, CyclicCompound, lol.
 
Trinitrotoluene

248 HP / 192 Def / 68 Spe Bold

should be the spread. Outspeeding Greninja at +1 is the ideal benchmark and even though getting past deo-S at +2 isnt that relevant its nice to move first to avoid knock offs, or if youre severely damaged and its literally 4 more EVs.

Also, Volcarona has a tough time getting past Chansey, so emphasis on wall breakers that have an easy time switching in on Chansey's toxics (mega mawile) or lures (knock off lando-i) would be ideal.

Other than that this analysis looks pretty good. Though we require 4 stamps for analysis now, this one received 2 before the policy had changed so you can change the title to QC: 2/3 and get to writing~
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top