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Volcarona (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Seven Deadly Sins, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Bullet Points (open)
    [Overview]

    - One of the few worthwhile bug-types to make it into OU
    - unique typing with solid resists and excellent coverage
    - utterly ridiculous stats
    - quiver dance is amazing
    - quiver dance is amazing?
    - insane in the sun, ok in the rain if built for it, can function in sand, basically an all-weather sweeper
    - very offensive, but frail physically and has issues with superfast scarfers and some specially defensive sets

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Quiver Dance
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
    move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Giga Drain
    nature: Timid / Modest
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - makes full use of Volcarona's offensive potential
    - obscene power with 135 base special attack, quiver dance, and high power moves
    - quiver dance a given, because duh
    - bug buzz as strong primary stab- not weather dependant, reliable, accurate, powerful
    - fire blast for power, fiery dance for nabbing quick boosts on regular attacks
    - hidden power ground for heatran / tentacruel, giga drain for most members of rain teams (especially toed)

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - hp rock an option for dealing with dragon/flyings like mence, dragonite, as well as gyarados and other fire resistant flying types
    - sub for sun teams that don't need the coverage
    - life orb primary item for sheer destructive power, but lum berry allows it to set up on status moves like body slam, thunder wave, thunder, toxic, sleep moves
    - timid best for straight up speed, but modest cranks up the power, guaranteeing the giga drain OHKO on specs toed, and securing the +1 LO fire blast 2HKO on 252/252+ chansey
    - teammates: ninetales obvious for sun, dugtrio if running giga drain since heatran straight walls forever, hazards for weakening walls (especially SR to take a chunk out of dnite/mence/gyara), general answer to chansey, spinner to deal with sr

    [SET]
    name: Hurricane
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Hurricane
    move 4: Fire Blast / Hidden Power Water
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - weird set, but it works
    - less of a sweeper, more of an "oh god, now i have to deal with volcarona"
    - bug/flying is remarkably effective coverage, and hurricane is one of volcarona's strongest tools in the rain
    - fire blast prevents you from being walled by skarmory, jirachi, forretress, other steel-types
    - hp water for pseudostab in rain, kos terrakion at +1 with leftovers, hits landorus, prevents heatran from walling

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - substitute eases prediction and can be useful against heatran, giga drain an option over bug buzz for more power against rain teams
    - lefties for more subs / more longevity, life orb for punching all the faces
    - modest since this set is relying on taking out enemies with a neutral unstab hurricane, so it needs all the power it can get. timid still a good idea though
    - teammates: politoed obvious for rain support, though not 100% necessary if you want something that just takes advantage of opposing rain. again, spinner for sr, especially if you have sub or life orb. something to deal with heatran is almost 100% necessary since this set can't hit it with any of its options outside of hp water. hazards, especially if timid since this set tends to miss hurricane KOs by small amounts

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Quiver Dance
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Fiery Dance
    move 3: Bug Buzz
    move 4: Roost
    nature: Timid
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - looks to leverage volcarona's decent physical defense and excellent special defense in order to use a bulky set that can abuse roost
    - can be incredibly difficult to take down, especially if flame body scores a burn
    - fiery dance for secondary boosts once you have enough quiver dances

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - fire blast if you really want the power
    - max def, lots of hp, able to outspeed base 130s at +1 / +1 base 110s at +2- the latter is useful in case of scarf latios trying to foil a sweep
    - teammates: sun is useful for more damage, reducing damage from water attacks, just general usefulness. spinner good for removing rocks, though less necessary given the existence of Roost on the set. screens can be extremely useful for setting up the first couple boosts

    [SET]
    name: ChestoRest
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
    move 4: Bug Buzz
    nature: Modest
    item: Chesto Berry
    evs: 160 HP / 236 SpA / 112 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - be bulky, set up quiver dances, then heal off all the damage with rest and wake up with chesto berry
    - good against more defensive teams without a lot of burst offense
    - with multiple boosts, volcarona is obscenely threatening
    - rest also helps against teams looking to wear down with toxic or cripple with paralysis

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - hp for bulk, speed to outspeed base 130s at +1 and +1 base 110s at +2
    - teammates: dugtrio, since heatran 100% must be gone for this set to work. hazards as always, spinner so that you don't have to rest too early, and other wallbreakers that lure and remove volcarona checks, since this set only gets one shot at sweeping

    [Other Options]

    - Specs with U-turn is interesting. 100 Speed is ok, specs 135 satk is crazy, and U-turn pretty much is the best thing ever.
    - interesting weather starter set - Sunny Day mono attacker with Roost or Morning Sun, totally destroys rain teams because Sunny Day prevents Politoed from putting a damper on things

    [Checks and Counters]

    - STEALTH ROCK
    - Terrakion in the sand, resists both stabs and has super effective rock attacks
    - Heatran is a big ol' pain in the ass since it's immune to fire and 4x resistant to Bug, though has to watch out for HP Ground
    - Chansey is a jerk, but in the sun Volcarona can muscle through. Toxic is helpful since it puts a death timer on Volcarona.
    - Snorlax is solid, since it has the physical power to explode Volcarona and resists Fire
    - Azumarill is a gimmicky Volcarona counter because of powerful Aqua Jet, especially in the rain.
    - Pokemon that resist fire + bug - mence, dnite, gyara, but they all have to watch out for HP Rock
    - Tyranitar provides sandstorm / Stealth Rock and resists Fire, though the Bug weakness hurts a lot.
    - Rain is usually bad for Volcarona, but the Hurricane or Giga Drain variants can be extremely effective against Water-heavy Rain teams.

    [Unreleased]

    - Swarm.
    - Flame Body is incredibly useful for bulkier sets, but Swarm could potentially find use on sets with Substitute that have a way of activating it in a controlled manner, since Swarm-boosted Bug STAB is absurdly powerful after a QD or 2.


    [Overview]

    <p>As one of the few vanguards of two oft-maligned types in OU, Volcarona is one hot Pokemon. Despite what would normally be considered a crippling Bug / Fire typing, Volcarona has the perfect combination of stats, movepool, and typing to make it a top-tier threat. With a whopping 135 base Special Attack, 100 base Speed, great dual STAB, and access to one of the best boosting moves in the game in Quiver Dance, Volcarona has everything it needs to make a huge impact. While it operates best in the sun, it can even take charge in the rain, and still has plenty of tools in sand as well.</p>

    <p>That said, even with everything Volcarona has going for it, it's not some kind of magic bullet in the metagame. It's quite frail on the physical side, and while it resists most of the priority attacks in the metagame, it's still hard-pressed to deal with anything it can't kill in one hit or outspeed. It also possesses a crippling Stealth Rock weakness, so if it doesn't sweep the first time through, it rarely gets a second chance. Still, if it gets any space to do its thing, it can make any game a runaway. The game is never over when Volcarona's around.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Quiver Dance
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
    move 4: Giga Drain / Hidden Power Ground
    nature: Timid / Modest
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set makes full use of Volcarona's massive offensive potential. Between an obscene 135 base Special Attack, Quiver Dance, Life Orb, and a STAB Fire Blast or Bug Buzz, Volcarona hits with nuclear force, wiping most foes off the map in one hit. Bug Buzz is the primary STAB, since it's powerful, accurate, reliable, and weather-independent. Fire Blast is the preferred secondary STAB due to its power, but Fiery Dance gives it a 100% accurate Fire-type move, as well as a 50% chance to boost its Special Attack even further. Finally, Giga Drain is the most powerful option against rain teams (and especially Politoed), and can help heal off Stealth Rock damage and preserve Volcarona's decent bulk. However, Hidden Power Ground is an option in the last slot, as it hits Heatran and Tentacruel, two common Pokemon in OU that resist Volcarona's dual STAB.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Rock is a decent choice for the fourth slot, as it hits the many Fire-resistant Flying types in OU, such as Salamence, Dragonite, and Gyarados. Substitute is a solid option for sun teams that can control the weather and simply muscle through opponents and would rather have a way to gain or keep momentum.</p>

    <p>Life Orb is the preferred item, as it provides Volcarona with the power it needs to secure OHKOs with its neutral moves. However, Lum Berry can allow Volcarona to set up on Body Slam, Thunder, or Thunder Wave, as well as random sleep moves and Toxic. Timid is the preferred nature for straight up speed, but if you really want to crank up the power, Modest not only guarantees that +1 Giga Drain OHKOes Choice Specs Politoed, but also combines with Life Orb to secure a 2HKO on 252/252+ Chansey in the sun with Fire Blast.</p>

    <p>Ninetales is the most obvious teammate, providing sunlight to fuel Volcarona's powerful Fire-type attacks. Beyond that, the main targets for teammates are anything not covered by the move in the fourth slot. With Giga Drain, Dugtrio becomes a top tier teammate, as it can eliminate Heatran and Tentacruel to secure a sweep. With Hidden Power Ground, anything that can wear down bulky Water-types is important. This includes entry hazards, specifically Stealth Rock, since it's important to deal with dangerous Flying-types, especially the ones mentioned above. Regardless of the last move, two things are needed above all: something to deal with Chansey, and something to deal with Stealth Rock. Strong physical attackers can deal with Chansey, though they have to be wary of Toxic or getting whittled down by Seismic Toss. Stealth Rock can be eliminated by a solid user of Rapid Spin, such as Forretress (which also provides hazards of its own), Tentacruel, or Donphan, the latter of which works especially well on sun teams. It can also be kept off the field by a Magic Bounce user, such as Xatu or Espeon. Finally, a strong check to Scarf Terrakion is suggested, as it can switch in on any of the first three moves with impunity, outspeed, and OHKO Volcarona with ease. Landorus-T is an impeccable one, sponging Terrakion's attacks with relative ease, laying down Stealth Rock, and seizing momentum with U-turn.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Hurricane
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Hurricane
    move 4: Fire Blast / Hidden Power Water
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While this bug seems like more of a sun-lover, it's perfectly at home in the rain as well. Hurricane gives it a strong attack to use in the rain, plowing through rain teams that think they've effectively neutered Volcarona. Bug / Flying is remarkably effective coverage, and when in the rain, Hurricane is one of Volcarona's strongest tools. Fire Blast may seem like an odd choice, but it wards off Skarmory, Jirachi, Forretress, and other Steel-types that would otherwise wall you in the rain, and gives dual STAB in case of sand. However, Hidden Power Water gets pseudo-STAB in the rain, and also hits a number of notable Pokemon. It KOes Terrakion in the rain at +1 with Leftovers, hits Landorus hard, and prevents Heatran from walling Volcarona both in and out of the rain.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Substitute is a solid choice in the last slot, as it eases prediction and can be helpful against Heatran. Giga Drain can make Volcarona more effective against opposing rain teams, and is best used over Bug Buzz with Hurricane as the primary attack. Leftovers are the preferred item, as this is a more supportive sweeper and may need to switch in multiple times or sponge an attack or two while setting up. However, Life Orb is still a solid choice for power at all costs. Note that Hidden Power Water is most important alongside Leftovers, as Life Orb's power allows this Volcarona to pick up some crucial KOs with just its STABs and Hurricane. Since this set relies on a non-STAB Hurricane as its primary offensive tool, Modest is the preferred nature in order to squeeze out as much damage as possible. However, Timid is still effective, especially against teams where Volcarona can't pick up more than 1 boost.</p>

    <p>As this is a rain-based Pokemon, Politoed is an obvious supporter. However, if you're just looking for a Volcarona that takes advantage of opposing rain, Politoed isn't necessary. As with every Volcarona set, a way to keep Stealth Rock off the field is important. Forretress can also take advantage of Rain to diminish its Fire weakness, letting it take weaker Hidden Power Fires. It also provides entry hazards, which are important to allow Volcarona to achieve as many Hurricane KOs as possible. A check to Scarf Terrakion is also hugely important, as it can switch into either Quiver Dance, Fire Blast, or Bug Buzz and shut Volcarona down. Landorus-T is an exceptional offensive check to Scarf Terrakion, both threatening it and tanking its attacks with ease. Since this set is almost 100% walled by Heatran, it's important to have something that can deal with Heatran. Dugtrio can trap and kill it, and can even potentially take a weaker Fire attack in the rain. Alternately, Tentacruel can ward off Heatran, carries Rapid Spin, and benefits greatly from the presence of rain. Finally, Starmie can resist Heatran's STAB, Recover off the damage, and spin away entry hazards.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Quiver Dance
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Fiery Dance
    move 3: Bug Buzz
    move 4: Roost
    nature: Timid
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Quiver Dance makes Volcarona an absolutely incredible offensive sweeper in its own right, its combined offensive and defensive buff also makes another option available to Volcarona. 85 base HP is remarkably good, and with heavy defensive investment and Roost, Volcarona can buy itself plenty of time to boost up and blaze through the opposing team. While Volcarona is still susceptible to burst damage from offensive teams, defensive investment and Roost allows it to outlast a number of more defensive checks, and with enough Quiver Dances, Volcarona has the power to blow through pretty much everything. To top it off, the durability of this set means that Flame Body has a chance to kick in, and if the opponent's physical Volcarona check gets burned, the game could be over then and there. Bug Buzz is the primary STAB, being the most reliable offensive option that Volcarona has. Fiery Dance gets the spotlight here as well, as it allows Volcarona to keep amping up its offense once it's got a couple Quiver Dances under its belt.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As always, Fire Blast is available if the power is really necessary, but since this set aims to set up slowly and reliably, it can afford the drop in power. A mono-attackin set is also an option, replacing either attacking move with Substitute. Fire is the preferred STAB when used alongside Ninetales, but Bug is useful for its lack of immunities. EV-wise, this set has a fairly simple spread. 16 Speed with a Timid nature allows Volcarona to outspeed base 130s at +1, or +1 base 110s at +2&mdash;the latter is especially effective for preventing Choice Scarf Latios from stopping a sweep. Defense is maximized, and the rest goes into HP, to provide the maximum physical bulk.</p>

    <p>As with every Volcarona set, sun support is extremely useful, as it gives Volcarona a much needed punch on its Fire attacks, and also dampens the effectiveness of Water-type attacks. This is especially notable for a set like this one, as many Water attacks will fail to outdamage Roost after a couple Quiver Dances. A Rapid Spinner is also good for removing Stealth Rock, though the presence of Roost on this set makes it somewhat less important. Screen support can allow Volcarona to get the first couple boosts under its belt, especially considering the extreme defensive investment. Finally, there's the standard Volcarona counters to deal with. Heatran is especially troublesome, so a teammate that can deal with it is important. Dugtrio can trap and kill it, securing the kill, but it's hard to switch in and may require a sacrifice. Jellicent is also an issue, though much less of one in the sun. Additionally, strong physical attackers like Terrakion and Landorus-T can prove troublesome. For this reason, Forretress can be a useful ally, as it not only provides a check to these strong attackers, but can spin away Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes. Landorus-T also provides a strong physical check, but lacks the ability to Rapid Spin.</p>

    [SET]
    name: ChestoRest
    move 1: Quiver Dance
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
    move 4: Bug Buzz
    nature: Modest
    item: Chesto Berry
    evs: 160 HP / 236 SpA / 112 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set strikes an interesting balance between bulk and offense&mdash;the aim is to absorb some damage and possibly status, rack up a couple Quiver Dances, and then Rest off all the damage and start the sweep like new, having used Chesto Berry to wake up. Against more defensive teams, this set can be devastating, as they simply don't have the firepower to deal with Volcarona quickly. With the offensive investment and powerful STABs, it can easily deliver the pain to opponents once a couple Quiver Dances are up.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The Speed investment allows this Volcarona to outspeed base 130s at +1 and +1 base 110s at +2, which is important to outspeed Choice Scarf Latios and other fast Pokemon. Dugtrio makes an effective ally, as Heatran absolutely must be removed for this set to function effectively. Landorus-T or another similar Terrakion check is also extremely important, as no amount of Resting will stop Terrakion from coming in and destroying Volcarona with its Rock STAB. Hazards are also extremely useful, as this set often needs the extra damage to seal the deal. A Rapid Spin user is nearly obligatory, as Stealth Rock needs to be gone in order to allow Volcarona the most time to set up. Finally, wallbreakers of any stripe are useful, as this set only gets one shot at sweeping, and it needs all potential problems removed beforehand.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A Choice Specs set with U-turn can be utilized effectively. Volcarona's massive 135 base Special Attack lets it power through pretty much anything, and U-turn can be extremely useful to capitalize on Volcarona's tendency to force switches. However, a Choice set on a Pokemon with a 4x Stealth Rock weakness is rather suspect, so it has to be played with care. A mono attacker with Sunny Day, Quiver Dance, Fire Blast, and either Roost or Morning Sun can be effective, especially against Rain teams. Between Quiver Dance and Sunny Day, Volcarona can almost set up in the face of opposing Water-types, and Politoed fails to put a damper on Volcarona's sweep potential. Finally, a straight offensive set with dual STAB, a coverage move, and Roost can be used for a Starmie-esque set. Volcarona is remarkably bulky, and being able to heal off residual damage can keep Volcarona in the fight for a remarkably long time.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>With its 4x weakness, Stealth Rock is easily Volcarona's biggest check in OU. It's hard for Volcarona to set up at 50% HP, and even harder at 1% if it's forced out. Keeping Stealth Rock on the field is the easiest way to reduce Volcarona's effectiveness in the long term. Terrakion in the sand is probably the most significant check, as it resists both STABs and has super effective Rock STAB to take it out. It can also outspeed +1 Volcarona with Choice Scarf, or simply sponge an attack and set up a Rock Polish. Heatran is also especially effective, as it's essentially immune to both STABs. However, Hidden Power Ground can be troublesome, and if Heatran is the only Volcarona check on the team, this can make it especially deadly. Chansey can wall Volcarona effectively outside of the sun, but with sun support, Volcarona can muscle through with Fire Blast, so be careful. Toxic on Chansey can make it more effective, putting a death timer on more defensively oriented sets. Snorlax has huge HP and Special Defense, resists Fire with its Thick Fat ability, and can slam Volcarona hard with its powerful STAB Body Slam and Return.</p>

    <p>There are some more nonstandard Volcarona counters out there as well. Azumarill in the rain is the ultimate counter to Volcarona, as it has plenty of bulk and a STAB Aqua Jet to deal with Volcarona. Any of the Flying-type Pokemon that resist Volcarona's dual STABs, such as Gyarados, Salamence, and Dragonite, can help deal with it, but they have to watch out for Hidden Power Rock, as well as Volcarona's raw power. Tyranitar can cancel out Drought, lay down Stealth Rock, and OHKO Volcarona with its Rock STAB, but its weakness to Bug makes it a shaky check at best and terrible if Volcarona already has some boosts.</p>

    <p>Rain is often considered a "counter" to Volcarona, but in many cases, rain can be more of a liability against it. Against the standard sets, Volcarona loses its most powerful STAB while the rain exacerbates its Water weakness. However, against sets packing Hurricane and/or Giga Drain, the rain can actually be counterproductive.</p>

    [Unreleased]

    <p>Volcarona's Dream World ability is Swarm. While Flame Body is incredibly useful for bulky sets to burn troublesome physical attackers, Swarm can find itself used on more offensive sets. While the Fire STAB is often considered the more potent offensive move, a Swarm-boosted Bug Buzz augmented by a Quiver Dance or two can give Volcarona the punch it needs to get through some of the more troublesome Fire resistances around. It even synergizes well with Substitute sets, which can control the activation of Swarm and turn up the power for a sweep.</p>
  2. sora13

    sora13

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    Giga Drain NEEDS a slash on at least one of the sets(Offensive Quiver Dance), if not more. Sure the HP Ground and HP Rock round out its coverage nicely, but Giga Drain screws with so many rain teams which happen to be all the rage right now, and it allows it to mitigate for weather damage, SR damage, random damage taken when setting up etc.
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    yea, Giga Drain is too awesome with Life Orb to NOT be slashed. If Life Orb is the primary item, Giga Drain should be the first slash, too. It murders Politoed and Keldeo and friends.
  4. sora13

    sora13

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    On this vein I would like to suggest Lum Berry as a held item for the offensive set, maybe the bulky attacker as well. Giga Drain goes hand in hand with lum berry nicely since a lot of bulky waters like to toxic instead of going for the scald, and you can use to free turn to boost and murder them with giga drain. Also it's comes a lot into practice against things like Jirachi, Ferrothorn, Amoonguss and Breloom who try to status you while you set-up.
  5. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    I'm just going to copy paste what I wrote in the last thread by superbadd in here, and maybe add a couple of things:

    In terms of set order, I reckon Offensive QD > Rain > SubQD > ChestoRest > Bulky. I just don't think the bulky QD set is very threatening to begin with, while with Stealth Rock down, it's hard to be a very long term threat. Offensive QD is definitely the most threatening set given the right conditions (sun), since pretty much nothing can wall this beast. Hurricane is a close second because of how common rain is at the moment.
  6. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Oh hey, this is up. So this is what I would suggest so far:

    Bulky Quiver Dance:

    • Bump the Speed EVs to 60 so Timid Tornadus-T doesn't outrun and KO +1 Volcarona, and Volcarona can dispatch it with a quick Fire-type move.
    • When you get to the AC, mention the benefits of using 108 Spe, which, while buying lots of EVs, allows Volcarona to outspeed some important stuff I'll mention in the ChestoRest set.
    Hurricane:
    • I'd rename this back to something like Rain-based Quiver Dance (just to be both informative and consistent), but that's just me not liking plain attacks for names.
    • Shrang's suggestions
    ChestoRest:
    • Since ChestoRest Volcarona is using this much Speed EVs at the moment, it wouldn't mind a 12 point sacrifice in either Special Attack or HP to move to Speed. In other words, bump the Speed EVs to 108 so Volcarona can outspeed important stuff. At +0 boosts, this includes Jolly Breloom; at +1, this includes all unboosted threats in the tier (so Jolteon doesn't try a desperate KO with Thunderbolt, and Volcarona doesn't fall against the random Aerodactyl); and at +2, this includes dangerous Choice Scarf users like Terrakion and Choice Scarf Latios (who may try something desperately cute like ruin the sweep with TrickScarf or use Psyshock).
    • Because this set focuses on getting multiple boosts, we should find an alternative spread that doesn't focus so much on boosting Special Attack (ala SubDD Dragonite). A more speedier or defensive approach can be considered.
    Substitute
    • Nothing really, except throw a Modest nature in the list of natures for the option of power.
    Offensive Quiver Dance
    • Giga Drain's probably screwed my Keldeo/Terrakion teams more times than I can remember, so that definitely deserves a mention in the AC, if not a slash in the third attacking slot.
    • Leftovers as a slash in the item, since this allows Volcarona to set up and attack more easily without a death timer, and it still is pretty powerful (sun or no sun) once it gets the boosts. Another additional benefit is beckoning SpD Heatran to come in expecting bulky QD, only to be hit with HP Ground.
    • Lum Berry in the AC for now, since it functions like a Lum Berry would on Kingdra: healing status and allowing easier setup against any cocky status users like Ferrothorn, Celebi, and Slowbro.
    • Shrang's suggestions

    That's it for now.
  7. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    Not quite, AG.

    At 108 EV's, Volcarona is at 263 Speed. 263 x 1.5 = 394.5, which rounds down to 394. This makes it TIE with Jolteon and Aerodactyl, not beat them. On that set, 112 Speed (or 264 Speed, being 396 at +1) actually beats them.

    On the Bulky set, as said in the other thread, another EV spread to consider is 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe Timid, which makes its stats 371 HP / 229 Def / 264 Spe in comparison to the current spread's 371 HP / 242 Def / 249 Spe. You miss out on 13 Defense, but make up for it by hitting that 264 sweet spot to beat the rare Jolteon, Crobat, and Aero at +1 without loosing too many EV's overall. If the Defense EV's aren't to stop something specific from killing you, that extra Speed might be well worth it.
  8. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    This is in progress, updating later today with skeleton.

    EDIT: Fuck computers, dead processor set me back a day. Update inbound.
  9. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Skeleton done, take a stab at it.
  10. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
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    AC/OO mention of psychic? hits relevant threats like terrakion, keldeo, tentacruel, all of which can give volc issues
  11. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    I don't think the Bulky set should be so far down the list. In my experiences, it is actually the best set because of its ability to set up against a wide range of Pokemon while still retaining a strong offensive presence.
  12. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    Just cause I love the moth and I love EV experimenting, here is another to chew on I played with. For the Substitute set, bulkier EV's are an option too in order to make it a melding of the staying power of the Bulky set while blocking status with Sub to set up further with. With that in mind, out came 104 HP / 180 Def / 112 SpA / 112 Spe Modest. With this spread, you achieve a Leftovers number of 337 (also a good one for Subs, but I forget exactly mathematically why here), and a specific 211 Defense to prevent LO Breloom/Scizor from breaking your Subs with Mach/Bullet Punch. Sadly, TechLoom's Bullet Seed does 15.13 - 17.8% each, but I do what I can. The 112 Speed are to hit the 264 Speed mark previously addressed that seems to work well, and the rest are dumped into SpA with the Modest nature for oomph. Tried other combos like Bold or Timid, but that spread is most efficient for the numbers that had to be hit for my goals. Pairs great with things that are weak to Sciz/Loom priority, including Kyurem, Hydreigon, Weavile, and pretty much any other fast fragile thing.
  13. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I would say you did a pretty good job with the analysis so far, the only changes I would suggest would be to:

    • I would personally move Bulky Quiver Dance from its current position to #3, though we should really wait until QC comes to an agreement on its positioning.
    • On the Hurricane set, Substitute should be replaced by HP Water and mentioned in AC. Believe it or not, HP Water is actually pretty solid on Rain Volc since it lets you OHKO Terrakion at +1 in the rain (which is one of Volcarona's better checks) in addition to letting you beat Heatran.
    • In your counters section, i'd mention Terrakion since its the single best offensive Volcarona check in the game (especially in the sand). I'd also give Gyarados a bigger mention, since it's a really good Volcarona check in general. Specially Defensive Tyranitar needs a mention —I know, its a garbage Volcarona check, but it provides SS (residual damage, buffs Terrakion) and SR. BTW, I wouldn't say that Snorlax is the ultimate Volcarona counter; after all, it takes neutral damage from Bug Buzz & bulkier sets with Roost can fish for a flame body burn and render it useless. I would mention Snorlax after Terrakion / Heatran / Gyarados etc.
    @Seth Vilo
    Interesting spread, I'm going to give it a spin/talk about it with the other QC members and report back to you.
  14. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    I personally don't think anything should be slashed with Fire Blast in the rain set at all. You really need Fire Blast to kill things that wall you rain team (FERROTHORN), and that's the point of using rain Volc in the first place. HP Water is kind of meh anyway, since you generally have no problem with Heatran when using a rain team (and if Heatran lacks Toxic, you can generally batter it repeatedly with Hurricane with drawbacks whatsoever (if you keep SR off the field). You also OHKO Terrakion with Hurricane at +1 with LO, IIRC.
  15. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    Seconding this. That Fire STAB is what Rainy-Volc is primarily used for; to murder stupid Ferrothorn that walls the other 5 members. Fire Blast is also extremely handy for the off chance that your weather isn't up (which never happens at all ever), because it suddenly becomes your most powerful move. Sun teams become terrified of you having your weather up, and also them having THEIRS up with Volc waiting in the wings to turn either against them. Sand teams are now forced to watch their prized Landorus eat a neutral full-powered Fire Blast (which is 180 BP) instead of resisted a resisted Bug Buzz, 70% accurate Hurricane, or even 140 BP super-effective HP Water. Fire, and the STAB with it to help neutralize rain's effect, is the reason to use RainyVolc.

    EDIT: Well the Sub set is gone. Good. Now people will be shocked when I still use it. ^_^
  16. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Updated after some chatting on IRC.
  17. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  18. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    [​IMG]

    QC Approved 2/3
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Some things to add:

    Overview

    • SR Weakness is Volcarona's biggest downside and needs to be mentioned

    Offensive Quiver Dance

    Additional Comments:


    • Mention Charcoal. It lets you, after a boost, to OHKO all offensive variants of Dragonite, Gyarados, Garchomp (56.25% chance), Terrakion and Keldeo (81.25% chance), as well as defensive Ninetales, all with SR in play. You also 2HKO Chansey and Blissey with SR. Use HP Ground with Charcoal as any target of Giga Drain / HP Rock is hit harder from Fire Blast, except of Gastrodon. The lack of recoil greatly helps you set-up on more Pokemon, as you don't fear priority near as much
    • I would like to see a mention of a check to Scarf Terrakion, which is a big threat to sun teams, as even Dugtrio is 2HKOed by Stone Edge, and doesn't even OHKO with EQ

    Hurricane

    Additional Comments:

    • Mention that Hidden Power Water works better with Leftovers, as when using LO many of the targets of HP Water are OHKOed by Hurricane or Fire Blast(we alrdy discussed why iirc)
    • Once again a check to Scarf Terrakion

    Bulky Quiver Dance


    Set Comments:

    • Slash Fire Blast after Fiery Dance. The power boost is just too big to ignore, especially after a boost and in sun
    Additional Comments:

    • Sub over Bug Buzz. With Dugtrio support eliminating Heatran and Tyranitar, this set can devastate teams that rely on status to bring Bulky Volcarona down (SpD Jellicent with Toxic for example, a usualy Bulky Volca counter, gets owned by this set)
    • Partners to take care of any Terrakion, as well as Dragonite, Kyurem-B, and Heatran, as this set lacks the power to do antyhing to them while they all threaten to OHKO or 2HKO

    ChestoRest

    Additional Comments:

    • Teammates to take on Terrakion, Dragonite, and Kyu-B

    Other Options

    • Maybe a physically defensive set with WoW / Roost / Struggle Bug or U-turn / Fire Dance or Flamethrower?

    Checks and Counters

    • Scarf Terrakion wrecks Volcarona, inside or outside of it, and troubles sun teams in general, so make sure to mention this
  20. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Hey, just saying: due to the new QC stuff, you can go and write this stuff up now. Updated the thread title to reflect this.
  21. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    hi i'm alive thanks

    Will get a first draft up either today or tomorrow.
  22. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
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    C&C needs a Jellicent mention; yes, I understand the calcs in sun, but if sun is not in play, specially defensive Jellicent pretty much always beats non-Giga Drain Volcarona. Keldeo also needs a mention. Neither of these two have to watch out for HP Rock.
  23. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Not fully done, but halfway done. A bunch of stuff came up this weekend, but I was able to get a good head start of things.
  24. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    SDS emphasize Rona's SR weakness in the overview pls. It's her single most fatal flaw, and the first way that most teams try to deal with Volcarona. So mention it first in the cons and say that it is the best way to deal with it.

    EDIT: Also add a mention of Charcoal in the AC of the offensive as i already said.

    When mentioning Donphan as a partner for the offensive set, explain how it is also a good check to Scarf Terrakion, a troubling foe for Volcarona and Sun teams in general.

    In the AC of the Hurricane set explain that Hidden Power Water must be used with Leftvers to not be outclassed, as with LO, Hurricane takes care everything that HP Water does except for Heatran, which is not an obstacle for rain teams anyway.

    I have also suggested slashing Fire Blast with Fiery Dance on the Bulky QD set and no comments were made. I think the extra power is worth it sometimes, and Fiery Dance still gets the first slash. No harm in slashing Fire Blast imo.

    Add those too:

  25. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    "It can also be kept off the field by a Magic Bounce user, such as Sigilyph or Espeon."
    Sigilyph has magic guard not magic bounce...

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