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While chatting to a friend, and interesting point was raised.
- Thread starter PWNstar!
- Start date
Are you serious lol? Walls give you a chance to switch in. For example, say someone sends out Empoleon against your Infernape. Of course, since your Infernape gets owned by water (considering no Grass Knot, just using this for sake of example), so you switch in a wall that can take hits so that you can get a chance to switch in a thunder Pokemon, for example.
I believe most walls run stuff like Toxic. The enemy dies faster than it does. They also waste enemy PP, especially if it has Pressure.
You should change the question to tanks who have no recovery move, where as a wall can heal then keep attacking.
If your wall is something stupid like Sub/Protect/[healing move]/attack, then there is really no point to it, besides hoping that you can needle your opponent down before they kill you. If your wall is having fun tossing status and/or some form of spikes around, or is buying time in damaging weather, then there's a very good point to having it.
But if you are able to wear an opponents sweeper down without too much hastle, isnt that good for you. The whole point of a wall is to slow down your opponent or put them in a sticky situation. They usually carry Toxic because they know they will be in there for the long haul. With Toxic and a Recovery Move, they are able to wall the opponent aswell as making sure it is also dying slowly as the trnss run by, while you are able to recover the damage taken.
Better Exampe is cres (if ape don't have nasty plot/cres has psyhic).
Empoleon gets owned by CC btw
Of course walls have to be able to attack and accomplish other things. Consider Forretress. In any given match, I might force two dangerous CB or CScarf users to switch, lay down two layers of Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin away Stealth Rock once, and then Explode, taking a Pokemon down with me. Wouldn't it be reasonable to say that I got a good return on Forretress? The point of defensive Pokemon is that they are lesser threats than the offensive Pokemon in general, but they can still be threats to many things and can force switches and inflict statuses and field effects that enfeeble your opposition and enable your sweepers to annihilate. Frequently, they have the ability to get kills themselves (though seldom to actually sweep), and there's always the clever play that can leave your foe with nothing that get past your tanks while you still have them, forcing a slow but really quite sure win. This is why people use the tanks they do and not Pokemon like Shuckle. It's because of what positive things they can accomplish other than "dying slowly".
There are many attacks that have great results with no damage. Will-o-Wisp for example? In which case it'll be Dusknoir, not Garchomp doing the LOLing. as chompy dies slowly. :P
Walls force switches and prevent you from being ripped apart by the one Choice Bander/Scarfer/Specs/LO Pokemon you forgot to prepare against, and either cripple them or wear them down until they die. As Phiphler brought up, sweepers exist to kill or be killed.
Walls can either attack nicely (like a Swampert, or something), counter specific Pokemon (like Gliscor is to Heracross) that would otherwise kill the team, or support the team (like Forry with Rspin & Spikes). Most of them do a little bit of all of those. Walls with a recovery move will always win agains things that don't do decent damage to them (lots of Pokemon can't do decent damage to walls). They also provide safe swich-ins to sweepers you may not have a sweeper-counter to.
Walls kill off sweepers before they die. They aren't there just to waste time.
252 HP 0 Sp. Atk 0. Sp. Def Blissey can ice beam a gengar to death before Gengar can focus blast it to death, unless Gengar has Specs.
Hippowdon can come in, set up sandstorm, wall your sweeper, set up stealth rocks, recover off the damage. Skarm can come in and spike. Tentacruel can wall special hits and lay toxic spikes.
Jirachi and Vaporeon can wall attacks and then wish your sweepers back to full health. Blissey can come in on specsmence and force it to switch out with ice beam. Dusknoir can switch in on rapid spin, WoW the switch and knock down the atk of the opponent's sweeper.
Walls can do a hell of a lot of things. Namely, status, set-up, and team support.
Hippowdon can come in, set up sandstorm, wall your sweeper, set up stealth rocks, recover off the damage. Skarm can come in and spike. Tentacruel can wall special hits and lay toxic spikes.
Jirachi and Vaporeon can wall attacks and then wish your sweepers back to full health. Blissey can come in on specsmence and force it to switch out with ice beam. Dusknoir can switch in on rapid spin, WoW the switch and knock down the atk of the opponent's sweeper.
Walls can do a hell of a lot of things. Namely, status, set-up, and team support.
No wall is ever just a wall. They all serve multiple purposes. Skarm sets up Spikes, and PHazes. Blissey heals the team with AT and Wish, and spreads status. Umbreon can pass Snatched boosts or Mean Look.
@Kamikaze Korean: That kind of wall is very effective in a TSpikes environment, and using Sub on walls hinders them, so don't do that.
@Kamikaze Korean: That kind of wall is very effective in a TSpikes environment, and using Sub on walls hinders them, so don't do that.
Here's why walls are an important factor of your daily breakfast, er, I mean team-
Opponent sends out ScarfChomp.
You send out Nape.
You switch Nape for a Metagross.
ScarfChomp uses Fire Blast, predicting you'd switch from Nape.
Metagross faints.
You send out Weavile.
Chomp is switched out for a Metagross.
Weavile uses Ice Shard.
Weavile switches.
Metagross uses Agility.
Metagross rapes your team.
Now, if you had a wall...
Chomp uses Fire Blast.
Metagross fants.
You send out Blissey.
Chomp switches to Weavile
Blissey cripples Vile with T-Wave.
Blissey switches out for Regirock.
Weavile is paralyzed.
Regirock uses Fire Punch.
Weavile gets 2/OHKO'd.
Specsmence is sent out.
You switch in Blissey.
Specsmence switches to Chomp.
Blissey uses Ice Beam.
Blissey switches back to Rock (If it doesn't OHKO Chomp).
Rock kills with Ice Punch.
Blissey walls the oncoming SpecsMence and Rock will wall any Phys Sweepers left.
Get me?
Opponent sends out ScarfChomp.
You send out Nape.
You switch Nape for a Metagross.
ScarfChomp uses Fire Blast, predicting you'd switch from Nape.
Metagross faints.
You send out Weavile.
Chomp is switched out for a Metagross.
Weavile uses Ice Shard.
Weavile switches.
Metagross uses Agility.
Metagross rapes your team.
Now, if you had a wall...
Chomp uses Fire Blast.
Metagross fants.
You send out Blissey.
Chomp switches to Weavile
Blissey cripples Vile with T-Wave.
Blissey switches out for Regirock.
Weavile is paralyzed.
Regirock uses Fire Punch.
Weavile gets 2/OHKO'd.
Specsmence is sent out.
You switch in Blissey.
Specsmence switches to Chomp.
Blissey uses Ice Beam.
Blissey switches back to Rock (If it doesn't OHKO Chomp).
Rock kills with Ice Punch.
Blissey walls the oncoming SpecsMence and Rock will wall any Phys Sweepers left.
Get me?
I guess I wasn't clear. What I meant was, if that's what you think of when you think wall, then that's a bad idea. If that's your idea of wall, TS probably aren't on your team. I was refering to it as a stand-alone Pokemon, not as a member of a stall-ish combo, which, again, you wouldn't be using if your idea of a wall was to simply waste time, opposed to stalling for damage.
Walls are very important in the game man, as everyone said above me. They help in so many ways. They set the rest of your team up for unfavorable matchups or protect you from getting raped by something you forgot to prepare for. They can put status conditions onto the opponent's Pokemon without having to worry about being taken out this turn. They're just a HUGE factor in the game, in nearly every possible way.
You know what i'm going to make a no wall team right now
A wall without a recovery move is as useless as your friend claims. Bronzong, I'm looking at you. However, Skarmory, Hippowdon, Blissey, and Cresselia (who is defensive enough to survive 3 turns of Rest/Sleep Talk) can come in on something they're supposed to wall, damage/paralyze/poison/sleep whatever the opponent switches into them or set up some other type of support move, then recover off the damage they've taken when it's safe.