WHITEOUT!?

[TubaTeddybear]

So I had a sort of epiphany either last night of a few nights ago...and it was that I should have a hail-based team since my other team is sand-based. This seemed like a fun idea because I really like frosslass and abomasnow, and so using them would definantly be fun to me.

HOWEVER when I went to go test this team with the limited time I had on a computer with high enough Java support for Shoddy (yes, I generally use a Windows 98 and this is my only regret: compatability), I came to find out that this team really doesn't function as well as my other team (see sig if you really want to see it!). So this is where I REALLY need some help because I want to make this work, but idk what would work better...maybe Latias....idk...

So without further ado after my ramble since it is now finally over even though I still continue to ramble with this single sentence:

TEAM WHITEOUT!!!

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*!EDITS IN BOLD!*
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Abomasnow @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 hp/252 SpDef/ 4Atk
Nature: Relaxed
-Substitute
-Leech Seed
-Wood Hammer
-Blizzard
OMG I LOVE Abomasnow...mainly because I have a friend that looks like him (i know, it's weird, but he agrees with this), and so I put him to be first because he sets up the Permanent Hail that is necessary on this team. Then he goes through and subs up while the opponent switches to something that can kill him and I could either hit them with his two STABS , Leech Seed and attempt to make a "vampire Kill" that I used to do with celebi, or I could switch to something better. All in all, a good time.

Walrein @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 220 HP / 244 Def / 46 Spd
Nature: Bold
- Substitute
- Protect
- Roar
- Blizzard
Now this is a fun idea in itself...the art of healing with hail...a novelty idea in itself (omg repetition). This thing is there to basically live as long as it can while making things switch around with roar to the maximum 32 turn thing...a very fun strategy that can be used to really tick people off.

Frosslass @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Spikes
-Substitute
-Thunder Wave
-Blizzard
The snow queen herself has arrived. Once again, as with most, if not all of the pokemon here, she is here to stall until death, taking as many down with her. With her snow cloak AND Thunderwave, it'll be had just to HIT her, not to mention kill her while the oponent is slowly drained away by both hail and blizzard that never misses while safely under a fun little substitute.

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Nature: Calm
-Surf
-Toxic Spikes
-Knock Off
-Rapid Spin
Tentacruel is a fun spinner that is there to make the job of wear-and-tear go by much more quickly through toxic spikes. It also removes any annoying leftovers with knock off to make this even more efficient. To finish things off it's a spinner of its own to remove little annoyances such as spikes/toxic spikes/stealth rock.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Abiltiy: Torrent
EVs: 252 Hp/252 Def/252 Spe
Nature: Relaxed
-Stealth Rock
-Blizzard
-Surf/Roar
-Earthquake

Use swampert instead of Suicune or Bronzong this is because he can counter both Dragons and TTar to some extent. He has excellent synergy within a hail team i urge you to consider this. Run the standard mixpert set. Suicune i basically useless as you have no spikes or toxic spikes and bronzong will lose to cruch ttar who will otherwise rape your team hard.
Swampert @ leftovers
Relaxed 252hp 252def
Stealth rock
Ice Beam
Surf
Earthquake

Please change its for the best.
Good Luck.

Rotom-F @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP/252 SpA /252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Discharge
-Blizzard
-HP Fire
-Trick
Ok, the first time I saw this thing I was like: OMG, IT'S A FRIDGE!!! And be warned, this is one hell of a bugger to deal with. It's basically an ice type with levitate without the disadvantages of being an ice type. Using a similar formula as before in Spiritomb, this guy wears at the opponent while rehealing itself and hitting the opponent with perfect accuracy blizzards.

Frosslass, Spiritomb, and Rotom seems very redundant. Especially since your Rotom and Spiritomb have very similar sets.

For one I would suggest changing Rotom to have a scarf. Make his movepool Thunderbolt/Discharge, Blizzard, HP Fire, and Trick. HP Fire will help you counter Scizor and Lucario, who otherwise can do quite a number on this team.

I'm sorry, I probably should have been more clear:

For Scarfed Rotom, your EVs and nature should be 6 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed Timid.
This will allow you to always outspeed +1 Gyarados and Scarfed Heatran as well as everything besides max speed Ninjask that doesn't run a Scarf or Speed Boosting ability of its own. 252 Special Attack also allows you to OHKO min/min Scizor all of the time, 252 HP / 0 SpDef Scizor all of the time with Rocks/1 layer of Spikes/1 Turn of Hail Damage (and a fair bit of the time without any of that), and do minimum 99.98% to 176/176 scizor (the most specially defensive listed set) with Rocks/1 Layer of Spikes + 1 Turn of Hail damage. It can only deal 63-75% to Lucario, but that's enough to seriously hamper his killing power, as he is usually Life Orbed and your residual damage can rack up. 1 layer Spikes (12.5) + 2 Turns of Hail (the turn he switches in and the turn he Swords Dances, 12.5) means you have a shot of OHKOing him, and if you throw in Stealth Rock, he will at worst have enough HP left to die to his own Life Orb after 1 attack.

So this team seems to work in theory, but in testing there are issues that I can't seem to tinker out...so can you please help me because this is a really fun team to use.....when/if it works :D

 

[les gets]

lol you're team is supposed to have good synergy before you post your team to get rated. If you need more time to test your team, so be it. Take your time.

 

[SmokingBomber465]

Quick comment: Metagross leads could hurt you a lot. Maybe HP Fire on one of your pokemon could help with this?

 

[TubaTeddybear]

lol you're team is supposed to have good synergy before you post your team to get rated. If you need more time to test your team, so be it. Take your time.

well, it doesn't have HORRIBLE synergy, it just seems to need SOMETHING else...

it's more along the lines of it doesn't work as well as my other team...

 

[Xephyr]

Giving Brightpowder to Frosslass could make it even more annoying. That might be illegal though. I'm not sure? You might still want the leftover recovery anyway so don't listen to me.


What exactly will you do when you meet up with Metagross? Nobody here can really take it on well at all.

I think you should replace Rotom with something that can handle Metagross better.

 

[TubaTeddybear]

Giving Brightpowder to Frosslass could make it even more annoying. That might be illegal though. I'm not sure? You might still want the leftover recovery anyway so don't listen to me.


What exactly will you do when you meet up with Metagross? Nobody here can really take it on well at all.

I think you should replace Rotom with something that can handle Metagross better.

yea, i thought brightpowder was illegal...and Idk what I should put/where to put it for metagross.......

 

[wildfire393]

Frosslass, Spiritomb, and Rotom seems very redundant. Especially since your Rotom and Spiritomb have very similar sets.

For one I would suggest changing Rotom to have a scarf. Make his movepool Thunderbolt/Discharge, Blizzard, HP Fire, and Trick. HP Fire will help you counter Scizor and Lucario, who otherwise can do quite a number on this team.

The first 4 members are pretty standard for hail, but they are because they work well. And Scarf Rotom works well for the 6th member. For your 5th member, I strongly suggest a Steel type (as you have none currently). Heatran seems like the best bet here, as he will provide a much-needed Fire Immunity as well as another good answer to Scizor. Since you also lack a Stealth Rock User, I suggest using the Burn Support Heatran from the analysis. Leftovers, 252 HP/16 SpA/240 SpD, Modest or Calm, with Will-O-Wisp, Stealth Rock, Overheat/Fire Blast, and Earth Power. Alternately if you really want a status absorber still you can run the ResTalker set, but you lose stealth rock this way.

 

[TubaTeddybear]

Frosslass, Spiritomb, and Rotom seems very redundant. Especially since your Rotom and Spiritomb have very similar sets.

For one I would suggest changing Rotom to have a scarf. Make his movepool Thunderbolt/Discharge, Blizzard, HP Fire, and Trick. HP Fire will help you counter Scizor and Lucario, who otherwise can do quite a number on this team.

The first 4 members are pretty standard for hail, but they are because they work well. And Scarf Rotom works well for the 6th member. For your 5th member, I strongly suggest a Steel type (as you have none currently). Heatran seems like the best bet here, as he will provide a much-needed Fire Immunity as well as another good answer to Scizor. Since you also lack a Stealth Rock User, I suggest using the Burn Support Heatran from the analysis. Leftovers, 252 HP/16 SpA/240 SpD, Modest or Calm, with Will-O-Wisp, Stealth Rock, Overheat/Fire Blast, and Earth Power. Alternately if you really want a status absorber still you can run the ResTalker set, but you lose stealth rock this way.

what about bronzong with heatproof...because I really would rather not have 2 teams that use heatran if I don't explicitly need to...and bronzong can add stealth rocks as well and even barrier+reflect to add defences


*edit: so something like this?

Bronzong @ Light Clay
Ability: Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 8 Def / 96 SpD
Nature: Relaxed
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Earthquake
-HP Fire (oh snap!)

 

[Tint]

I don't see the usefulness of Spiritomb. The main use I would see is taking fighting attacks, which Tenta, Frosslass, AND Rotom do very well. You run a CM set with Pressure to take out PP and stall.

Let me show me the magic of CMCune:

Suicune@Leftovers
Bold
Pressure
252 HP 160 DEF 92 SpD
-Surf
-Blizzard
-Calm Mind
-Roar


(These aren't the standard EV's, I added some SpD so you can switch in repeatedly on Fire Blasts, but feel free to use 252 HP/ 252 DEF/ 6 SpA.) With this, I combined your fire-resist and CM pressure staller into one. The idea is to come in on Fire, Ice, Water, or any other type he resists and start CMing up. With Surf and Blizzard, you hit a lot of pokes neutral, but you'll be walled by bulky waters. That's when you roar to rack up Spike, SR, and TS damage. When those waters are worn down by damage, toxic etc. then you start firing of Surf and Blizzard, and hitting the weakened team hard, hopefully winning the game.

I hope I helped, because this team does look very good.

 

[TubaTeddybear]

I don't see the usefulness of Spiritomb. The main use I would see is taking fighting attacks, which Tenta, Frosslass, AND Rotom do very well. You run a CM set with Pressure to take out PP and stall.

Let me show me the magic of CMCune:

Suicune@Leftovers
Bold
Pressure




Crocune

Leftovers Bold Moveset EVs ~ Surf
~ Calm Mind
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe A combination of above sets, carried over from Advance where a Smogonite named Cromat popularized the set. Crocune has a feeling of eternity about it: even when sleeping, it has the possibility of powering up with Calm Mind or hitting an opponent with Surf. This set solves the problem of being very vulnerable when asleep, and is still able to boost its stats. However, that comes at a price: it only has one attack.
You'll find that this Suicune has a harder time of getting past Taunt Gyarados, and you will have to PP stall against anything with Water Absorb, such as Vaporeon. Due to Pressure, Suicune can indeed win this, unless they have something else that can repeatedly switch in as well, as that allows them to switch back and forth between those two so that you are the only one consuming PP.
This set is also the only sane way a Calm Mind Suicune can prevent its Calm Minds from being erased by Roar/Whirlwind while sleeping. You'll just have to hope Sleep Talk does select your triple Calm Minded Surf during the turn Hippowdon or Skarmory decides to phaze you out.

but the thing is, now electric types are a problem with this pokemon in the mix....idk

.......and your post isn't really constructive at all because all you did is copy-paste the description from the smogon guide without giving me your full reasoning/thought behind it...



*EDIT: I think something like this could also help with my problem instead:

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-Substitute
-Leech Seed
-Spore
-???

 

[wildfire393]

I'm sorry, I probably should have been more clear:

For Scarfed Rotom, your EVs and nature should be 6 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed Timid.
This will allow you to always outspeed +1 Gyarados and Scarfed Heatran as well as everything besides max speed Ninjask that doesn't run a Scarf or Speed Boosting ability of its own. 252 Special Attack also allows you to OHKO min/min Scizor all of the time, 252 HP / 0 SpDef Scizor all of the time with Rocks/1 layer of Spikes/1 Turn of Hail Damage (and a fair bit of the time without any of that), and do minimum 99.98% to 176/176 scizor (the most specially defensive listed set) with Rocks/1 Layer of Spikes + 1 Turn of Hail damage. It can only deal 63-75% to Lucario, but that's enough to seriously hamper his killing power, as he is usually Life Orbed and your residual damage can rack up. 1 layer Spikes (12.5) + 2 Turns of Hail (the turn he switches in and the turn he Swords Dances, 12.5) means you have a shot of OHKOing him, and if you throw in Stealth Rock, he will at worst have enough HP left to die to his own Life Orb after 1 attack.

 

[Tint]

no I edited it as soon as I posted, I do it so my computer doesn't go nuts and delete my unposted work. read it again.

 

[TubaTeddybear]

no I edited it as soon as I posted, I do it so my computer doesn't go nuts and delete my unposted work. read it again.

but it still leaves me with ANOTHER big weakness to electric attacks that I really can't afford....

 

[Tint]

Oboma and rotom resist, and 'snow likes to come in and set up a sub on electric attacks.

 

[TubaTeddybear]

Oboma and rotom resist, and 'snow likes to come in and set up a sub on electric attacks.

hmmm, so would suicune seems as a better option than bronzong? because I'm still debating, though I'm a VERY indecisive person...

 

[Tint]

well its really your playing style.
if you like to really stall, maybe bronzing is better.
but if you want to stall, and clean up games late, suicine is for you.
I prefer suicine, but test both really, see whats for you.

 

[wildfire393]

I'm still going to suggest Burn Support Heatran over Cune/zong. He fills more of your weak/resist gaps (better fire resist, better steel resist, only dragon resist, only dark/ghost/psychic resist). He provides Stealth Rock support and Burn support, which helps against many major threats in the metagame. Especially when he lures out Salamence, Tyranitar, Gyarados, and other Physical sweepers who just hate getting burned.

 

[MetaNite]

Put Abomasnow's Def EVs into Special Defense. It's not surviving any Close Combats or Meteor Mashs anytime soon. This lets you come in on bulky waters and they will fail to break your Substitute. Great counter to Jolteon too who hurts your team.

I voted Bronzong, but I don't think that Bronzong is for you. One that sets up Stealth Rock and counters Salamance would be good. Counter means it has attack EVs to atleast 2HKO with Gyro Ball. The standard wall should work fine, just don't use Hypnosis.

This is a good hail team, at least as good as hail goes.

 

[Zepar]

Blizzard has low pp and you really need an exploder to take out calm minding beasts such as Jirachi.

 

[Tint]

I'm still going to suggest Burn Support Heatran over Cune/zong. He fills more of your weak/resist gaps (better fire resist, better steel resist, only dragon resist, only dark/ghost/psychic resist). He provides Stealth Rock support and Burn support, which helps against many major threats in the metagame. Especially when he lures out Salamence, Tyranitar, Gyarados, and other Physical sweepers who just hate getting burned.

I would have suggested it too, but he said he doesn't want to run heatran, so I think cune works best.

 

[TubaTeddybear]

I would have suggested it too, but he said he doesn't want to run heatran, so I think cune works best.

fine, if I must.....what heatran set should I use again?

 

[iKitsune]

Use swampert instead of Suicune or Bronzong this is because he can counter both Dragons and TTar to some extent. He has excellent synergy within a hail team i urge you to consider this. Run the standard mixpert set. Suicune i basically useless as you have no spikes or toxic spikes and bronzong will lose to cruch ttar who will otherwise rape your team hard.
Swampert @ leftovers
Relaxed 252hp 252def
Stealth rock
Ice Beam
Surf
Earthquake

Please change its for the best.
Good Luck.

 

[TubaTeddybear]

Use swampert instead of Suicune or Bronzong this is because he can counter both Dragons and TTar to some extent. He has excellent synergy within a hail team i urge you to consider this. Run the standard mixpert set. Suicune i basically useless as you have no spikes or toxic spikes and bronzong will lose to cruch ttar who will otherwise rape your team hard.
Swampert @ leftovers
Relaxed 252hp 252def
Stealth rock
Ice Beam
Surf
Earthquake

Please change its for the best.
Good Luck.

OMG how did I not see that!? that adds to the team without adding any real weaknesses that can't be dealt with!........but then there's the including-Heatran deal......

 

[iKitsune]

There is no real ned to use tran it just adds to your weakness to fighting and tyranitar. I also suggest you check this out for other useful pokemon for your team http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/art_hail_stall.

 

[TubaTeddybear]

There is no real ned to use tran it just adds to your weakness to fighting and tyranitar. I also suggest you check this out for other useful pokemon for your team http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/art_hail_stall.

I've been using that article since stage one of this team, and I even have it bookmarked on my firefox browser :P

so any other tips/things to look at? *cough*abomasnow's EVs*cough*