Wally is so lucky, he can catch a Ralts even after it faints! (it's a 1/8574 chance of happening, but it can happen! The game just moves on like he really did catch it though)
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"Worst Pokémon Ever"
- Thread starter SapphSabre777
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To be blunt and honest, in all my years of pokemon I don't think I have heard someone say Charmander is a good choice for a play through in gen 1/3 since gen 1 when I was a kid. However, I pretty consistently hear people say that he sucks in gen 6 despite how amazing X is in battle. So I honestly believe tehy are more people who get kicks making fun of Charizard then people who "suck his dick".
These two fucking things are the worst. Chikorita is by far the worst Starter Pokemon ever, being weak to three Johto gyms and resisted by five* (both of which include the first two gyms.) Even Pikachu at least hits Misty super effectively. Charmander isn't far off, though, as it's also weak to the first two gyms in its respective region, but it at least has an advantage against one Kanto gym.
I think what makes Charmander worse, though, is how much people fucking love Charizard. See, Chikorita is a poor starter choice objectively and I dislike its design subjectively (especially of its final evolution), but I have yet to see someone who likes Chikorita argue that it's a good starter choice. However, people masturbate to and give blowjobs to Charizard so much that it's blinded them to the fact that Charmander is objectively a terrible starter in RGBYFRLG. Charizard fangasms are so prevalent that the subjective criteria of "OMIGAW BADASS AWESOME DRAGGIN THAT TURNS BLACK WHEN ITZ SHINEE" shields them from the objective criteria of early gym matchups. Look, if you like Charizard, fine, but at least acknowledge that Charmander is a terrible starter choice when looking at objective criteria.
Other terrible 'mons:
Pikachu - worse starter than Charmander, but on the plus side, Raichu has fairly consistently been a pretty good in-game 'mon (I used Raichu on my most recent Y run and it put in work.) Pikachu's popularity has caused Raichu to become the biggest case of wasted potential in this entire franchise.
Flareon - I will go on with calling this thing Shitvee. We all know Shitvee is absolute trash competitively, but even on in-game runs, you don't want to use it because literally every Eeveelution is better. Even Umbreon, with its highest offensive stat an incredible base 65 Attack, is a better choice because at least it royally fucks over the abundance of Psychic-types in-game (and has bulk to actually take hits) whereas with Shitvee, you're getting a mediocre Fire-type that's slow and not even particularly bulky. If you really want to use Shitvee on your next FRLG run, well, here's your steps:
Step 1. Go to Celadon City, grab Eevee
Step 2. Purchase Fire Stone
Step 3. Go to Route 7, catch Growlithe (FR) or Vulpix (LG)
Step 4. Use your Fire Stone on Growlithe (FR) or Vulpix (LG) instead
Step 5. Purchase Thunder Stone
Step 6. Use Thunder Stone on Eevee and just use Jolteon instead of Shitvee
*-note: I included Morty in the count for gyms that resist Chikorita, as all of Morty's Pokemon resist Grass.
I actually figure Charmander to be pretty useful. Sure it's of no help in the first two gyms but beyond that it's special attack and STAB make it a solid damage-dealer with decent bulk and fantastic speed. It just has poor early-performance is all and even then it beats the shit out of viridian forest and a ton of other trainers outside the gyms and Hikers - it can even try and deliver a Mega Kick to Starmie's face.
I've definitely heard it. Also, you can't tell me there are more people who "get kicks making fun of Charizard than people who suck his dick" because the Charizard fanboying is the entire reason it got two Mega Evolutions.
Given how extremely weak Brock is, Charmander has no problem beating him, either - it just takes a bit longer. It's really only Misty that holds it back, plus the fact that Fire is a pretty underwhelming type in Gen 1 (then again, so are Grass and Water). In any case, outside of Misty's Starmie, no trainer will ever be threatening enough to severely hold back your starter (Sabrina has a bad habit of not using Psychic most of the time for some reason).
Believe it or not, Chikorita is actually bulky enough to take on Falkner (by virtue of him being massively underleveled) and (at least in GSC) Growl Pidgeotto's attack into uselessness. Furthermore, you generally cheese Morty with a Normal-Type (most people will probably have one at this point), which his ghosts can't touch. Lastly, Meganium is very much capable of holding out against Claire and utilize status effects. As much as it struggles at various points in the game, Chikorita is still not as bad as Treecko because its movepool works with its stats.
Believe it or not, Chikorita is actually bulky enough to take on Falkner (by virtue of him being massively underleveled) and (at least in GSC) Growl Pidgeotto's attack into uselessness. Furthermore, you generally cheese Morty with a Normal-Type (most people will probably have one at this point), which his ghosts can't touch. Lastly, Meganium is very much capable of holding out against Claire and utilize status effects. As much as it struggles at various points in the game, Chikorita is still not as bad as Treecko because its movepool works with its stats.
Or it is because they had two ideas that they liked? Man, at least every 3rd person I talk to about pokemon not on smogon spends a decent bit of time talking shit about charizard and gen 1. Charizard is popular and also popular to hate. Also, if anything as far as popularity goes, the two megas are more of a curse then anything. So many people bitch about some that design time wise, mostly took no extra time. Yes, no extra time because they for sure make more than one design before deciding what to go with.
In LGFR, couldn't you just wait until charmander evolved into Charmeleon and learnt metal claw to take out brock? Charmander is suppossed to be better for late game as Charizard.
From what I'm aware of, people that haven't really played since Gen 1 love Charizard to all high hell. You could probably form some sort of conditional probability distribution of people's opinion of Charizard given what generations they played.
I think that kind of rule also applies to other pokemon and whether or they like the new improvements e.g. i told someone who's last pokemon game was SoulSilver about mega evolutions and the fairy type and he couldn't believe me and thought i was crazy...
That would be interesting to see, of course if it included more than just Smogon. Smogon from what I have known of it tends to be more open. As far as his popularity goes, yes there are people who seem to love him despite not starting in gen 1, but for each of those I personally find, I find at least 2 who hate just because he is from gen 1. Bi-polar opinions tend to run high with him. Same with Mewtwo to be honest and Lucario.
Well no, Treecko is still far better - from a context standpoint Mudkip and Torchic are still better choices but I've gone through Omega Ruby and Emerald numerous times with Treecko. I never had any real problem and it came in pretty useful.
I view it like all three are generally good for the game (though Torchic struggles against both evil teams) but there are clearly better options than others. I had Emerald so I felt like Treecko was easier due to all the Team Aqua (and the whole too much water thing helped too). I'm certain those that chose Ruby thought the same with Mudkip and how easy it was to tank like everything resisting most of the STABs from around after Lillycove or so.
Honestly, Marshtomp gets ridiculous as soon as it gets the Bulldoze TM in Mauville City (only in ORAS, of course). It completely tanks and downs everything not immune to ground; and then it gets Rock Slide by level up, and then the Earthquake TM happens... it's pretty insane.
That's funny because I had an easier time with Treecko in RSE than Chikorita in GSC. Treecko just needs to learn Leaf Blade and then it's awesome... Meganium just doesn't get a whole lot. I've used all of the Gen III starters and honestly thought Torchic was the worst. It stood out against Norman and that's just about it. Useless against all of the last three gyms, useless against both evil teams... The game just wasn't kind to Torchic. Mudkip just kind of wrecks house through the whole game, but I'd still pick Treecko over Torchic any day of the week.
I agree, although torchic is better late game due to how OP Blaziken has become in recent years. This is the case for a number of games. Therefore, I can see why one could choose any of the three.
Blaziken only really became OP in later gens due to speed boost in competitive. In-game speed was never much of a problem for it so it's not that much better than it used to be.
Worst pokemon in-game? Feebas in R / S / E (but I love Milotic, obviously).
Design: ok, we have Magikarp 2.0 which seems bad, but at the end turns out strong, useful.
Competitive use: none. Luckily, Competitive Milotic is a different story in Doubles.
In-game use: the reason I hate this fish is that is a terrible pain to catch one of it in R/S/E. The reason I always choose Lotad over it is that, if you want a special Water type i.e. for Surf, you can find this Grass / Water very early in the game with the Water Stone available in-game later. Trying to catch a Feebas is so useless, I don't even spend time anymore not to mention the effort to evolve it in the beautiful Milotic. It is such a waste of time it isn't even funny. At least Magikarp in B/R/Y is buyable for 500 pokecoins (so you don't even use the Rod or Surf to find it) and this fish turns into Gyarados after level 20 (even though Water moves were special).
Design: ok, we have Magikarp 2.0 which seems bad, but at the end turns out strong, useful.
Competitive use: none. Luckily, Competitive Milotic is a different story in Doubles.
In-game use: the reason I hate this fish is that is a terrible pain to catch one of it in R/S/E. The reason I always choose Lotad over it is that, if you want a special Water type i.e. for Surf, you can find this Grass / Water very early in the game with the Water Stone available in-game later. Trying to catch a Feebas is so useless, I don't even spend time anymore not to mention the effort to evolve it in the beautiful Milotic. It is such a waste of time it isn't even funny. At least Magikarp in B/R/Y is buyable for 500 pokecoins (so you don't even use the Rod or Surf to find it) and this fish turns into Gyarados after level 20 (even though Water moves were special).
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I'd say Chikorita out classes Treeko in just about any matter.
Chikorita has good Bulk/defenses, and iirc it learns Razor Leaf before it even evolves, which offsets it's slightly lower offensive stats by a large margin. Cyndaquile (and, to a lesser extent, Totodile) doesn't stand a chance against Whitneys Miltank, which, for any decent player, is the only really challenging gym leader until the eighth one.
The moveset I settled on for my starter during my last playthrough of crystal was
Headbutt
Sunny Day
Synthesis
Razor Leaf (Which I eventually replaced with Solar Beam)
It was pretty much unstoppable the entire game, strong enough to solo most gym leaders besides morty and cute steel girl. Both of those can be countered pretty effectively with just a Quagsire.
Treeko has a very poor movepool, and honestly his stat spread isnt effective enough to make up for it. It's also gross and weird.
In fact, I believe Meganium was the first starter Pokemon to make it to OU tier in competitive play, so it's reasonable to say that Meganium is the best starter Pokemon in the franchise.
That being said, I really like Bulbasaur and I'm glad he's become so good in recent generations.
Chikorita has good Bulk/defenses, and iirc it learns Razor Leaf before it even evolves, which offsets it's slightly lower offensive stats by a large margin. Cyndaquile (and, to a lesser extent, Totodile) doesn't stand a chance against Whitneys Miltank, which, for any decent player, is the only really challenging gym leader until the eighth one.
The moveset I settled on for my starter during my last playthrough of crystal was
Headbutt
Sunny Day
Synthesis
Razor Leaf (Which I eventually replaced with Solar Beam)
It was pretty much unstoppable the entire game, strong enough to solo most gym leaders besides morty and cute steel girl. Both of those can be countered pretty effectively with just a Quagsire.
Treeko has a very poor movepool, and honestly his stat spread isnt effective enough to make up for it. It's also gross and weird.
In fact, I believe Meganium was the first starter Pokemon to make it to OU tier in competitive play, so it's reasonable to say that Meganium is the best starter Pokemon in the franchise.
That being said, I really like Bulbasaur and I'm glad he's become so good in recent generations.
Meganium ? OU ? When ? I play competitive since GSC and he has never been OU
Treecko has an actual movepool, offenses, and is used in a region that doesn't hate Grass-types (especially if playing Sapphire). Chikorita is pretty ass in-game, especially when its competition blow it out of the water in terms of usefulness.
It was actually BL in GSC. The first Starter to be OU was Swampert in ADV.
(RSE) None of Treecko's moves outside Leaf Blade and Slam (lol) in its level-up movepool have more than 40 Base Power (SE STAB Absorb only hits 60 BP, which would be on par with Double Kick/Mud Shot if they didn't get STAB), the common water types either aren't weak to Grass (Wingull/Pelipper, Tentacool/Tentacruel, Gyarados) or are so frail/weak that a weakness is unnecessary (Carvanha/Sharpedo, Magikarp, Luvdisc) and Roselia has a much better movepool and comes at a point where Grovyle is still stuck with Absorb. Even if you don't want Roselia, by the time all the Water-Types come forth (Lilycove City), you can get a Vileplume/Bellossom around that point (sporting the status powders, a physical STAB option and Moonlight) to handle them (or Raichu if you prefer that). Leaf Blade isn't even that impressive, having a measly 70 BP, while the other starters have STAB options with a power of 95/100 (Swampert) and 75/120 (Blaziken), respectively.
(ORAS) You're supposed to hold off getting Grovyle around the second gym so you can learn Giga Drain (its only good STAB in its level-up movepool, Leaf Storm is not good in-game). While the mega is impressive, Sceptile is held back by the fact that it's a special attacker whose natural moves are mostly physical. Meanwhile, Swampert is still as good as ever (gaining new coverage toys in Rock Slide and Hammer Arm) while Blaziken gets not only way stronger STABs in Flare Blitz and High Jump Kick, but also the most powerful Mega ability of the three. So while Treecko gains some semblance of usefulness, the other starters just get way more. Treecko does benefit from no longer having to forfeit TMs to better mons, but the TM movepool of the other starters is still bigger.
Chikorita may face type disadvantage at every turn, but there's enough targets to be shred by a super-early Razor Leaf and most SE moves targeting it are very weak (the worst being Zubat's Wing Attack maybe).
Trust me, I've tried making use of Treecko several times already, I always gave up somewhere between Brawly and Wattson, simply because Treecko can't do squat.
The reason I see it as so bad is while crap like Spinda, Unown and Larvesta is way worse in-game, you generally have a high-level starter and/or legendary at that point who can take over if it struggles. For Treecko, you have to go out of your way and train a route 'mon (probably Dustox/Beautifly) so you can switchgrind it until it learns Leaf Blade.
(ORAS) You're supposed to hold off getting Grovyle around the second gym so you can learn Giga Drain (its only good STAB in its level-up movepool, Leaf Storm is not good in-game). While the mega is impressive, Sceptile is held back by the fact that it's a special attacker whose natural moves are mostly physical. Meanwhile, Swampert is still as good as ever (gaining new coverage toys in Rock Slide and Hammer Arm) while Blaziken gets not only way stronger STABs in Flare Blitz and High Jump Kick, but also the most powerful Mega ability of the three. So while Treecko gains some semblance of usefulness, the other starters just get way more. Treecko does benefit from no longer having to forfeit TMs to better mons, but the TM movepool of the other starters is still bigger.
Chikorita may face type disadvantage at every turn, but there's enough targets to be shred by a super-early Razor Leaf and most SE moves targeting it are very weak (the worst being Zubat's Wing Attack maybe).
Trust me, I've tried making use of Treecko several times already, I always gave up somewhere between Brawly and Wattson, simply because Treecko can't do squat.
The reason I see it as so bad is while crap like Spinda, Unown and Larvesta is way worse in-game, you generally have a high-level starter and/or legendary at that point who can take over if it struggles. For Treecko, you have to go out of your way and train a route 'mon (probably Dustox/Beautifly) so you can switchgrind it until it learns Leaf Blade.
Agree, although this seems strange. In RSE, Grass types are common enough to find a bulkier replacement with good secondary STAB, whereas Fire types are very uncommon and with -generally- low stats (bar Blaziken) and Swampert is bulky and has a good match up towards many Gyms. The only fact that might redeem Sceptile is that all Grass moves are special in this game and is very fast.
===> in ORAS Sceptile is possibly even worse -due to the split between physical and special moves- without the utility provided by its Megastone.
I was also concerned about the utility of Treeko in RSE, but you can choose Mudkip at the beginning, so Sceptile is a glass cannon which makes your in-game rival easier to defeat because Grass (when lacking proper coverage) is an easy type to find a check/counter for even in early game.
===> I still rate Feebas more useless than Treecko (which can be a burden for your rival if you choose Mudkip accordingly) in RSE, but that's only my opinion.
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Well that's just outright untrue. I admittedly never knew it could learn Giga Drain at level 21; so that should tell you something about how I easily got through the game with it. You're overlooking Mauville City where it gets Grass Pledge through tutor - a solid, 80 base power special grass move. It also, by the by, gets the TM for Low Sweep there which lets it take on Wattson just fine, and it has no problem with the prior gym leaders.
It may have lower physical attack than is desirable, yes, and I definetely run into problems with it largely having a physical movepool over a special one - you can most certainly make it work when you get TM75 Swords Dance as early as friggin' Lavaridge Town. Hell, I went through the game recently where I got a timid nature and it was constantly up against Team Magma's fire-types - it still came out on top. It still pulled it's weight.
Blaziken and Swampert are undoubtebly better as represented by the in-game tiers - actually, the people who do the in-game tiers and put Treecko at A should be able to tell you a lot more about this whole matter than me - but this doesn't make Treecko useless, nor do they come without their own problems. Torchic suffers as soon as you hit the open sea right up until, what, Victory Road? Swampert... uh... okay, it's Swampert, doesn't exactly have many flaws especially with an early Bulldoze in Mauville and bizarrely getting Rock Slide at level 28. I guess using it just always makes me feel like I need another water-type for Surf but eh.
Just because the two starters are better means absolutely nothing. The point is whether Treecko can pull it's weight if it's chosen - which from experience of bothering to actually use it throughout the whole game which you yourself have admitted to not doing, I can say it does.
In my opinion Chikorita is worse than Treecko. I love the sword theme that is going on with Sceptile. In my first run of Emerald I chose Treecko...
Treecko's problem is that it was created to be a special attacker with all these moves that became physical the next gen... And then we have Mega Sceptile which didn't even rectify that situation with a strong attack boost. I mean it has Leaf Blade, Thunder Punch, Dragon Claw, and others that all used to be special in the generation it debuted in. I've been telling people how Sceptile had one of the worst transitions with the physical-special split.