I would say dedicated sun offense is complelety unviable in6th gen. There is no reason to use it over rain offense because rain sweepers are so much more powerful. The best sun can do is venusaur, who is much weaker than swift swimmers and needs more turns than they do. Sun offense is simply a waste
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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Escarlata basically greninja'd me on everything I was gonna say regarding Ninetales. So... yeah. =P
Maybe you have more experience with Ampharos, I dunno. I can't speak from experience however, so I'd like to hear more from you and others who've used him regarding how he fares against most threats and how much he generally accomplishes in a game.
I'm not very knowledgeable on how Mega Ampharos fares in the OU metagame, but I'd think B is too high for him. He's bulky, sure, and he makes for a nice answer to Talonflame, but I don't know that he actually accomplishes much outside of that. His typing gives him nice resistances, but also some notable weaknesses, and due to his speed he's bound to take some hard hits. I think the biggest blow to his viability is his absolute lack of recovery. He gets RestTalk, but that's literally it.
Maybe you have more experience with Ampharos, I dunno. I can't speak from experience however, so I'd like to hear more from you and others who've used him regarding how he fares against most threats and how much he generally accomplishes in a game.
I have to disagree. Venusaur is not the only viable sun sweeper. Things like Sawsbuck and Victreebel are just a good and can beat a lot of the metagame. Sawsbuck can kill Greninja, Manaphy, Lando-I and even Heatran. Victreebel can deal with Grass-types w/o relying on HP Fire as it has Weather Ball. Furthermore, Victini and Darm are fearsome in Sun.
Never sed it's only viable sweeper just the best one. Point is, rain is just so much more powerful and almost nothing wallas kingdra and kabutops.
I've used him before, and I have to say I agree with B ranking. 165 special attack is monstrous. Coupled with 90/105/110, Mega Ampharos is a fantastic tank. Also, it, unlike most dragons, can hit the two most common fairies, Azumarill and Togekiss, super effectively with its STAB. Ampharos can also set up rain and proceed nuke with Thunder and/or Volt switch to a rain sweeper. It also can set up dual screens, use heal bell, paralyze the opposing team, or use agility and sweep. It has so many options, and I think definitely should be B ranked.
That says, the key word there is still physical.
4 resistance vs 3 weaknesses does sound like a good trade, but if we only consider the physical side, the 4 resistances of fire,water,grass,electric are essentially irrelevant, but the weakness of dragon is very relevant with Garchomp, Dragonite, Charizard X out there watching you.
And on the hand, as a tank, 100Atk is a pathetic number, and you really want some SE coverage to help out, and as we all know, dragon does not really provide any SE coverage, nor does it provide any high BP move besides the risky outrage, you may just better pick up something else, like Stone Edge, instead.
Goodra has 110 Base Special Attack, a better special movepooland it's used of 90% of the teams.
About sun teams:
Charizard Y + Ninetales together are viable. I said once thing more: 3 Fire types on a Sun teams are viable (Flash Fire Heatran specially).
Having a sun team in Gen VI is a bit different to Gen V. In fact, Gen VI Sun team works more like Gen IV Sun team than Gen V Sun teams.
For your team be really a Sun team; you require:
Ninetales + Mega Charizard Y in the same team.
Mega Charizard Y + two manual sun setters.
Ninetales + one manual sun setter.
The "manual setters" are not meant to set up sun; it's to got a second chance of having sun if your Sun setter is not available.
And using Whismicott is really not a good idea: If you are going to set up sun manually, I recommend those pokemon more than Whismicott: Mega Charizard X, Mega Houndoom, (Mega) Venusaur, Heatran, Dragonite, Volcarona, Klefki, Entei, Deoxys-D, Victini, Mew, Cresselia.
If you notice, al of these pokemon are viable without sun, can abuse the sun they set-up, they aren't specially frail.
And because you are asking about sun, I will talk about other manual teams:
1) Hail: don't use it. Hail has nerfed so hard.
2) Sandstorm: Support from suna re bad (Smooth Rock Tyranitar has little usage) The sand can be abused by Excadrill like we know.
3) Rain: The only OU setter of rain is Politoed, with means that if you are going to have a Rain Team, you have to use Politoed with Damp Rock.
However, for your team to be really a rain team, you can't depend solely on Politoed. You probably need 1 or 2 more Rain Dance setter (at least one with Damp Rock).
Possible setters: Rotom-Wash, Azumarill, (Mega) Gyarados, Klefki, Stamie, Thundurus, THundurus-T, Mega Blastoise, Latias, Jellicent, Jirachi, Slowbro, Keldeo, Deoxys-D, Manaphy, Kingdra, Milotic, Mew, Tornadus, Tornadus-T, Cresselia, Suicune.
Note: I don't know if I forget some, but I didn't forget of you, Greninja. Not, Greninja is very frail to use Rain Dance.
About sun teams:
Charizard Y + Ninetales together are viable. I said once thing more: 3 Fire types on a Sun teams are viable (Flash Fire Heatran specially).
Having a sun team in Gen VI is a bit different to Gen V. In fact, Gen VI Sun team works more like Gen IV Sun team than Gen V Sun teams.
For your team be really a Sun team; you require:
Ninetales + Mega Charizard Y in the same team.
Mega Charizard Y + two manual sun setters.
Ninetales + one manual sun setter.
The "manual setters" are not meant to set up sun; it's to got a second chance of having sun if your Sun setter is not available.
And using Whismicott is really not a good idea: If you are going to set up sun manually, I recommend those pokemon more than Whismicott: Mega Charizard X, Mega Houndoom, (Mega) Venusaur, Heatran, Dragonite, Volcarona, Klefki, Entei, Deoxys-D, Victini, Mew, Cresselia.
If you notice, al of these pokemon are viable without sun, can abuse the sun they set-up, they aren't specially frail.
And because you are asking about sun, I will talk about other manual teams:
1) Hail: don't use it. Hail has nerfed so hard.
2) Sandstorm: Support from suna re bad (Smooth Rock Tyranitar has little usage) The sand can be abused by Excadrill like we know.
3) Rain: The only OU setter of rain is Politoed, with means that if you are going to have a Rain Team, you have to use Politoed with Damp Rock.
However, for your team to be really a rain team, you can't depend solely on Politoed. You probably need 1 or 2 more Rain Dance setter (at least one with Damp Rock).
Possible setters: Rotom-Wash, Azumarill, (Mega) Gyarados, Klefki, Stamie, Thundurus, THundurus-T, Mega Blastoise, Latias, Jellicent, Jirachi, Slowbro, Keldeo, Deoxys-D, Manaphy, Kingdra, Milotic, Mew, Tornadus, Tornadus-T, Cresselia, Suicune.
Note: I don't know if I forget some, but I didn't forget of you, Greninja. Not, Greninja is very frail to use Rain Dance.
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My bad about Sunny Day Ninetales, it was a mistake, i meant to say Drought... And i said you can't get Tales's role because you keep comparing it to Mega Chary Y when they don't even compete for the same job on a team. Finally, cut this ad hominem bs, because there was none.
Goodra, in my experience, is a very useful and versatile Pokémon. It really doesn't need to deal massive damage when it's taking 20% from super-effective moves.
Most people don't expect Sap Sipper, so I've been able to get the attack boost reliably enough (For example, Charizard-Y trying to revenge kill a water Pokémon, not to mention Spores, Sleep Powders, Leech Seeds).
It can counter or check pretty much every non-Dragon/Fairy special sweeper in the game. Some exceptions are Greninja (can't switch in against Ice Beam, but still checks it with a rock move) and Manaphy (most you can do is 2hko it, which is not enough if you switch into a Tail Glow). Also, don't try to stop Mega Venusaur, it simply can't deal enough damage to it, though a Restalking set would probably win against it.
A mixed set is what works best for me, often foregoing a STAB move altogether. It's just a matter of choosing what you want Goodra to counter and adjust its EVs to OHKO what you need it to, with the rest going to Sp.Def.
I believe Rock Slide (for Charizard-Y and Volcarona) and EQ (for Heatran, etc) are musts, and I'm surprised all I ever see are modest Goodras. As for special moves, I always use Flamethrower (as a bonus, Scizor is slower than Goodra), and choose the fourth move depending on the rest of my team (Toxic, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Dragon moves, etc. It even gets Power Whip).
Of the S and A tier Pokémon, it can counter and kill Genesect (if it stays), Mega-Lucario (only special versions), Aegislash, Charizard-Y, Deoxys-S, Heatran, Thundurus-I, Rotom-W, Landorus-I, Gengar, Keldeo.
Also, please don't use AV on it. Leftovers is so much better in most cases.
In short, I would place it in B+ or even A-. There's no Pokémon who can perform Goodra's job better.
Most people don't expect Sap Sipper, so I've been able to get the attack boost reliably enough (For example, Charizard-Y trying to revenge kill a water Pokémon, not to mention Spores, Sleep Powders, Leech Seeds).
It can counter or check pretty much every non-Dragon/Fairy special sweeper in the game. Some exceptions are Greninja (can't switch in against Ice Beam, but still checks it with a rock move) and Manaphy (most you can do is 2hko it, which is not enough if you switch into a Tail Glow). Also, don't try to stop Mega Venusaur, it simply can't deal enough damage to it, though a Restalking set would probably win against it.
A mixed set is what works best for me, often foregoing a STAB move altogether. It's just a matter of choosing what you want Goodra to counter and adjust its EVs to OHKO what you need it to, with the rest going to Sp.Def.
I believe Rock Slide (for Charizard-Y and Volcarona) and EQ (for Heatran, etc) are musts, and I'm surprised all I ever see are modest Goodras. As for special moves, I always use Flamethrower (as a bonus, Scizor is slower than Goodra), and choose the fourth move depending on the rest of my team (Toxic, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Dragon moves, etc. It even gets Power Whip).
Of the S and A tier Pokémon, it can counter and kill Genesect (if it stays), Mega-Lucario (only special versions), Aegislash, Charizard-Y, Deoxys-S, Heatran, Thundurus-I, Rotom-W, Landorus-I, Gengar, Keldeo.
Also, please don't use AV on it. Leftovers is so much better in most cases.
In short, I would place it in B+ or even A-. There's no Pokémon who can perform Goodra's job better.
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A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.
Mega-Medicham for A+ Rank or even S rank.
I going to rank Mega-Medicham for at least A+ rank, the reason why is easy it's the physical version of Charizard-Y, there is literally nothing that can switch in reliably and it is forcing a whole shitload of switches. It has the strongest uboosted move in the whole fricking game in it's Pure Power Hjk, it has great coverage and it's 4mss isn't really a problem due to it's sheer power to break through it's conters with non-se moves. The things that maby won't push it to S rank right now is basically Mega-Lucario, but in my eyes they are kinda different in how they work in a battle anyway, the next thing is that it's fairly frail, but that shouldn't matter to much anyway. But it will require some support tho it's not a bad thing at all, because the only thing it needs is volt turn support mainly just to get it in safe and force switches giving you easy Substitute turns, making Megacham much more threathening. Good supporters are stuff like Genesect, Rotom-W, and Scizor because they attract pokemon that Megacham loves coming into like Heatran, Venusaur, Gliscor, Lando-T, Ferrothorn, etc. And when it's in, you are heavely pressured doesn't matter if you are running offense or stall because this pokemon will break through at least 1 pokemon no matter what. When it comes to counters there really isn't anything that can switch in because you have to predict the right move and everybody knows that is really putting pressure on yourself when beeing in a position like that. It also has a nice speed tier, base 100 isn't bad at all, also it's typing is fairly good giving it great dual-STAB's. So basically all around this pokemon is yet in my eyes unexplored by a lot off players, or people even play it wrong, but in the hands of the right player this is one pokemon you don't want to face.
Mega-Medicham for A+ Rank or even S rank.
I going to rank Mega-Medicham for at least A+ rank, the reason why is easy it's the physical version of Charizard-Y, there is literally nothing that can switch in reliably and it is forcing a whole shitload of switches. It has the strongest uboosted move in the whole fricking game in it's Pure Power Hjk, it has great coverage and it's 4mss isn't really a problem due to it's sheer power to break through it's conters with non-se moves. The things that maby won't push it to S rank right now is basically Mega-Lucario, but in my eyes they are kinda different in how they work in a battle anyway, the next thing is that it's fairly frail, but that shouldn't matter to much anyway. But it will require some support tho it's not a bad thing at all, because the only thing it needs is volt turn support mainly just to get it in safe and force switches giving you easy Substitute turns, making Megacham much more threathening. Good supporters are stuff like Genesect, Rotom-W, and Scizor because they attract pokemon that Megacham loves coming into like Heatran, Venusaur, Gliscor, Lando-T, Ferrothorn, etc. And when it's in, you are heavely pressured doesn't matter if you are running offense or stall because this pokemon will break through at least 1 pokemon no matter what. When it comes to counters there really isn't anything that can switch in because you have to predict the right move and everybody knows that is really putting pressure on yourself when beeing in a position like that. It also has a nice speed tier, base 100 isn't bad at all, also it's typing is fairly good giving it great dual-STAB's. So basically all around this pokemon is yet in my eyes unexplored by a lot off players, or people even play it wrong, but in the hands of the right player this is one pokemon you don't want to face.
Mega Medicham was indeed in A+ ranking once before, but was moved down due to a multitude of factors I cant recall as its only justification was that it could 2HKO the entire metagame and nothing else.
I'm bringing these back because C rank Tangrowth is just an insult. If he is able to check or wall major threats like Rotom-W and Aegislash he deserves a much higher spot.
Yet, as much as I love the AV set, I do still love bringing the Physical Defensive Tangrowth out for some fun. The fact he can go both ways now (either tanking the mighty Outrage with Physical Defense or a Shadow Ball with his Vest) goes to show he can at least go above a measly C ranking.
Mixed AV Goodra (Draco/Fire Blast/EQ/something) is something no other Pokemon can pull off. Latias has the same SpAtk, is faster, similar physical Defense, but with 3 crucial differences. Movepool, bulk, and ability. Goodra can viably run Earthquake, has access to Fire Blast, can use Sap Sipper to absorb Sleep and any common Grass move. Also, Latias can not get away with an Assault Vest. This alone proves (and disproves) some points from before.
Also lol what Mega Medicham is not S rank stop it
Also lol what Mega Medicham is not S rank stop it
The physically defensive set is pretty underrated IMO.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 306-362 (75.7 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-Just put it to sleep when it's your turn and switch to activate the Regenerator ability or just synthesis.
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Tangrowth Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 260-308 (87.2 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
I think Mega Medicham fits in A- more, I do have to agree you about something though, B+ is humiliating for such as monster.
It has the strongest High Jump Kick, 100 Base attack + Pure Power, which reaches 598 with max investment and a Jolly Nature (after Pure Power), it has extremely good coverage: the Punches. And unlike CharY and CharX, it has Priority in form of Bullet Punch.
Zen Headbutt coming off that attack is also very very powerful.
It has respectable bulk. As only 16 EVs in HP will let you survive Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 222-264 (83.7 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Talonflame and Life Orb Aegislash (50% chance of OHKO-ing) are the only pokemons who can OHKO through Priority (Unless I missed something) or Mega Pinsir with prior damage.
Thankfully the Fighting- type helps it have a respectable coverage/defensive typing. Not weak to Sucker Punch or Pursuit is amazing.
HJK is quite risky tho. And Aegislash stops it (unless it went for Shadow Sneak and it wasn't LO and you have Fire Punch), but thnx to the versatility, only a few pokemomns to dare to attempt a switch-in.
Mega Medicham is an amazing wall-breaker, and if he's faster than the pokemon in front, it's basically a KO if he has nothing to switch-in on the move you will do.
Slowbro can't is not a counter
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Gourgeist-XL, alongside Trevenant, both dropped to C+ rank because the metagame is not kind to them. Getting fucked by the whole S rank is horrible and the biggest reason why they dropped, but the superiority of Mega Venusar as a Grass-type in most teams is another big reason.
First of all, you can't bluff having Magnet Trap vs competent players, as there is no reason one shouldn't try to switch out when facing Magnezone. Second, Magnezone's most significant role in this metagame is this of a Steel-type trapper, not as a hard hitter, as there are numerous Pokemon that overshadow Magenzone in the hard hitting role. As a Steel-trapper, Magnezone has lost a lot of its viability since BW2, as it can't eliminate some of the best Steel-types in the tier, namely Mega Lucario, Bisharp, Heatran, Aegislash, and Excadrill. However, it can still provide significant support and remove from the game roadblocks to great sweepers, such as Skarmory, Mega Scizor, and Ferrothorn, which is why it was placed in C+.dbzmariogeno said:
While Mega Ampharos should be ranked, i don't think that B rank is the right place for it. While it can check an ok number of Pokemon from S and A rank with a defensive set (Mega Char Y, Heatran, Manaphy, Talonflame, Thundurus, Rotom-W, Keldeo) and can act as a decent hard hitter with an offensive set, it can't do both roles simultanously and has big flaws that prevent it from doing those jobs consistently (many common weaknesses, lack of recovery, and horrific Speed). Finally, opportunity cost over other, way better MEvos, is always a downside. I think that Mega Ampharos should go to C rank.SergantGold said:
I completely agree with moving Deoxys-D to A+, it's the single best suicide lead for HO teams, and a great Pokemon in general. However, i don't agree with moving Manaphy to S rank. Manaphy cannot sweep through teams with little to no effort, as Mega Venusaur, Kyurem-B, and Unaware Clefable are great Pokemon that shut it down, and there are also many ways to check it with faster Pokemon (Lati@s, Thundurus, Mega Lucario, Talonflame, etc). Manaphy also has little versatility and obviously doesn't wall the majority of the tier with little support, so i can't see any reason as to why it deserves to be in S rank.Super Mario Bro said:
We decided to leave Bisharp in A because it wasn't on par with the rest of the Pokemon in A+, simple as that.Tesung said:
Tangrowth is at C+ currently, but i agree with you that it should be higher. People that haven't used it really misjudge it, and there is a general tendency to look down on defensive Grass-types purely because of the overall effectiveness of Mega Venusaur, which gives them stiff competition, which is understandable but has started getting a bit annoying. Tangrowth is one of the best options for a Grass-type on teams without MEvos, or on teams that want a Grass-type with a Ground resistance. Also, the sheer amount of Pokemon that AV Tangrowth checks is amazing, including two of the S ranks, though it loses horribly to the rest of S rank. Tangrowth should be in B- rank.Remc⓪ said:
I would like to nominate Diggersby for B ranking.
At first, this ranking seems based on the Choice Scarf set, was was originally widely agreed to be the best set by a large amount of players, and while I don't disagree that it is effective, because it is, it just isn't Diggersby's best set. The underrated Swords Dance set hits like a truck after a boost, having a 75% chance to OHKO 252 / 252+ Mega Venusaur with Return, as well as 2HKO Skarmory and Bronzong, again, with Return. Heck, it has a 50% chance to OHKO physically defensive Hippowdon with SR and an 81% chance to do the same with Tangrowth! It even OHKOes Deoxys-D with an unstabbed U-turn, which is necessary even on SD sets.
It doesn't struggle against faster, more offensive teams either, as it would be functioning in the role of a cleaner, and Quick Attack at +2 2HKOes things like Manaphy, Rotom-W, and, Conkeldurr and OHKOes Thundurus, Talonflame, and Greninja, allowing it to easily sweep through weakened teams, whether defensive teams or offensive teams. Its typing isn't that bad, aside from the priority weakness, and it can still run Scarf or CB which wrecks teams expecting SD sets, particularly the CB set, from which even Quick Attack hits tremendously hard.
So yeah, Diggersby for B.
At first, this ranking seems based on the Choice Scarf set, was was originally widely agreed to be the best set by a large amount of players, and while I don't disagree that it is effective, because it is, it just isn't Diggersby's best set. The underrated Swords Dance set hits like a truck after a boost, having a 75% chance to OHKO 252 / 252+ Mega Venusaur with Return, as well as 2HKO Skarmory and Bronzong, again, with Return. Heck, it has a 50% chance to OHKO physically defensive Hippowdon with SR and an 81% chance to do the same with Tangrowth! It even OHKOes Deoxys-D with an unstabbed U-turn, which is necessary even on SD sets.
It doesn't struggle against faster, more offensive teams either, as it would be functioning in the role of a cleaner, and Quick Attack at +2 2HKOes things like Manaphy, Rotom-W, and, Conkeldurr and OHKOes Thundurus, Talonflame, and Greninja, allowing it to easily sweep through weakened teams, whether defensive teams or offensive teams. Its typing isn't that bad, aside from the priority weakness, and it can still run Scarf or CB which wrecks teams expecting SD sets, particularly the CB set, from which even Quick Attack hits tremendously hard.
So yeah, Diggersby for B.
Oh and i forgot, i want to nominate Mega Gardevoir for B+ rank.
Mega Gardevoir is an excellent offensive Pokemon, and the fastest Fairy in OU. With a moveset of Hyper Voice / Psyshock / Will-O-Wisp / (Hidden Power Ground / Focus Blast / Taunt) there is no 100% counter to it. Steel-types that resist Hyper Voice get crippled by WoW, Poison-types are dealt with Psyshock, Heatran is 2HKOed by Hidden Power Ground or Focus Blast, and special walls that aren't 2HKOed by Psyshock can be Taunted and 3HKOed. Also, Hyper Voice can bypass Substitutes, which is incredibly useful to KO Kyurem-B and Gliscor behind a Sub, Pokemon that trouble almost every offensive team. Not to mention that it's an incredible Pokemon to have against full Baton Pass teams, as it is able to hit through Subs, difficult to wall, and has Taunt. It may not be so easy to bring in and very slow before MEvolving, but it can come in against some important offensive Pokemon (Latios, Latias, Conkeldurr), and force out a ton of slower Pokemon to MEvolve and bring its Speed to good levels.
Its main flaws are that is is very frail on the physical side and thus gets fucked by priority, lacks switch-in chances, and gets outsped by many offensive Pokemon, which is why it needs a reasonable amount of support, but once it gets in it can do some serious work.
Mega Gardevoir is an excellent offensive Pokemon, and the fastest Fairy in OU. With a moveset of Hyper Voice / Psyshock / Will-O-Wisp / (Hidden Power Ground / Focus Blast / Taunt) there is no 100% counter to it. Steel-types that resist Hyper Voice get crippled by WoW, Poison-types are dealt with Psyshock, Heatran is 2HKOed by Hidden Power Ground or Focus Blast, and special walls that aren't 2HKOed by Psyshock can be Taunted and 3HKOed. Also, Hyper Voice can bypass Substitutes, which is incredibly useful to KO Kyurem-B and Gliscor behind a Sub, Pokemon that trouble almost every offensive team. Not to mention that it's an incredible Pokemon to have against full Baton Pass teams, as it is able to hit through Subs, difficult to wall, and has Taunt. It may not be so easy to bring in and very slow before MEvolving, but it can come in against some important offensive Pokemon (Latios, Latias, Conkeldurr), and force out a ton of slower Pokemon to MEvolve and bring its Speed to good levels.
Its main flaws are that is is very frail on the physical side and thus gets fucked by priority, lacks switch-in chances, and gets outsped by many offensive Pokemon, which is why it needs a reasonable amount of support, but once it gets in it can do some serious work.
Where is Jirachi on this list? Is is not viable in OU anymore or is there a different reason?
I'd like to make a case for Aggron being atleast B or so. Between Thunder-Wave, Stealth Rock, and Dragon Tail, I feel like Aggron is an absolute monster to deal with.
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 144-169 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 174-205 (50.5 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Now obviously this is coming off both sides of the spectrum, but it goes to show how Aggron can really help out on the foundation of your team by covering up weaknesses. Checking several S rank pokemon and getting a T-Wave off is a really impressive feat, and I feel like Aggron is too good to go unranked.
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 144-169 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 174-205 (50.5 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Now obviously this is coming off both sides of the spectrum, but it goes to show how Aggron can really help out on the foundation of your team by covering up weaknesses. Checking several S rank pokemon and getting a T-Wave off is a really impressive feat, and I feel like Aggron is too good to go unranked.
Jirachi is in a very strange position right now, because no one knows how go about using it anymore, and there are new substitutes. The Scarf set is still very effective, but it's been brushed to the side due to the nerf to steel and the presence of Aegislash.
It's weak to Ghost and Dark now, but it should still have some uses, I guess. Maybe it's because nobody has talked about Jirachi yet in this thread.
Nominate it and it will be on the list.
There are about two or three OU-relevant Pokemon that can safely switch in on Mega Medicham, but IMO it's not enough to put it in such a high tier. I'd personally put it at A- or A maximum, because, compared to Charizard-Y, it has a couple faults: Charizard-Y's defensive typing, aside from the rocks, is much better, having a lot of resistances. It also has a lot of special bulk, meaning it's somewhat harder to check. But there's also the "is it X or Y" that can greatly play into the Charizard user's favor.
But I definitely don't think it belongs in B+.
Completely agree with this. People shouldn't just look at how hard it hits but also at its huge support movepool.
And as long as we're nominating stuff that'll get banned from UU eventually:
Nominating Mega Heracross to B+ for being a bulkier Mega Medicham that's slower and marginally less powerful (except after a Swords Dance,) but still hard to switch into, especially given its coverage moves such as QuakeEdge, Knock Off and Bullet Seed.
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I'm not sure if many people will agree with me here, but imo Mega Pinsir should be A+.
I finally got around to using Mega Pinsir and I was honestly underwhelmed by it and at the same time I was also underwhelmed by the other Mega Pinsirs I saw. First of all, I often found difficulty switching Pinsir into battle. Pinsir has very few notable resistances, and to add onto that it has a poor special defense and a not-that-amazing physical defense before it Mega Evolves and is horrendously crippled by all forms of status, so it can rarely come in without taking quite a bit of damage or being crippled - to put it in perspective, Conkeldurr, a Pokemon that it would be scaring away, can do around 30% damage with Drain Punch (which already brings Pinsir down to half health if you include Stealth Rock) and Mega Lucario snipes about half its health with an unboosted Aura Sphere, which is close-ish to a OHKO after Stealth Rock. When it Mega Evolves, it typing pretty much makes it vulnerable to getting hit most relevant Pokemon in OU, and it practically loses its ability to switch in a second time if Stealth Rock is still on the field.
Pinsir is not an absolutely unstoppable force when you do manage to switch it in, either. Physically Defensive Rotom, for example, stops Pinsir very well and is very common. Talonflame, although not as big of a deal before, easily prematurely ends a sweep from Pinsir. Ground / Flying does not provide the greatest coverage either - even though its pretty solid, it does not hit Pokemon such as Thundurus or Zapdos for that much, in addition to Rotom-W. While a +2 Quick Attack can easily OHKO a frailer Pokemon, bulkier Pokemon can take a hit and retaliate, and unfortunately, there are a lot of scenarios Pinsir will have to use Quick Attack if it hopes to eliminate the opponent.
All in all, while Pinsir is one of the scariest Pokemon to face late game, especially if it sets up Swords Dance, it requires some support to get there, disallows usage of other Mega Pokemon (less relevant but still), and can sometimes become nearly dead weight if you cannot give it the opportunity to switch in and wreck havoc, and really only shines late-game. It can be really threatening but I don't see it at the same level of the other Pokemon in S-Rank, which boast more far more versatility and/or require less support to reach their potential. It's not so much that it doesn't hit hard, it's that it struggles to get in safely in order to hit hard.
I finally got around to using Mega Pinsir and I was honestly underwhelmed by it and at the same time I was also underwhelmed by the other Mega Pinsirs I saw. First of all, I often found difficulty switching Pinsir into battle. Pinsir has very few notable resistances, and to add onto that it has a poor special defense and a not-that-amazing physical defense before it Mega Evolves and is horrendously crippled by all forms of status, so it can rarely come in without taking quite a bit of damage or being crippled - to put it in perspective, Conkeldurr, a Pokemon that it would be scaring away, can do around 30% damage with Drain Punch (which already brings Pinsir down to half health if you include Stealth Rock) and Mega Lucario snipes about half its health with an unboosted Aura Sphere, which is close-ish to a OHKO after Stealth Rock. When it Mega Evolves, it typing pretty much makes it vulnerable to getting hit most relevant Pokemon in OU, and it practically loses its ability to switch in a second time if Stealth Rock is still on the field.
Pinsir is not an absolutely unstoppable force when you do manage to switch it in, either. Physically Defensive Rotom, for example, stops Pinsir very well and is very common. Talonflame, although not as big of a deal before, easily prematurely ends a sweep from Pinsir. Ground / Flying does not provide the greatest coverage either - even though its pretty solid, it does not hit Pokemon such as Thundurus or Zapdos for that much, in addition to Rotom-W. While a +2 Quick Attack can easily OHKO a frailer Pokemon, bulkier Pokemon can take a hit and retaliate, and unfortunately, there are a lot of scenarios Pinsir will have to use Quick Attack if it hopes to eliminate the opponent.
All in all, while Pinsir is one of the scariest Pokemon to face late game, especially if it sets up Swords Dance, it requires some support to get there, disallows usage of other Mega Pokemon (less relevant but still), and can sometimes become nearly dead weight if you cannot give it the opportunity to switch in and wreck havoc, and really only shines late-game. It can be really threatening but I don't see it at the same level of the other Pokemon in S-Rank, which boast more far more versatility and/or require less support to reach their potential. It's not so much that it doesn't hit hard, it's that it struggles to get in safely in order to hit hard.
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