Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

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Nominating mega aerodactyl for C- rank. I have not seen even one single person use it. What can it do: lead with sr and taunt, but its weak defenses compromise that. It can't suicide lead anymore. By mega evolving, it loses it's ability to spam head smash sans recoil. It doesn't have the tools to use its ability, other than head smash and crunch, maybe dragon claw and fire fang? Point is everything it can do is done better by sonething else and it has little versatility. C- or D+.
It doesn't learn Head Smash. Just saying.

I agree with Josh Morales for the most part, but a Jolly one is just short of outpaces +1 MegaZardX, so it's not as good at revenge killing as it could be. But I'm inexperianced with the thing, I've only really fought it once or twice, so I'm not going to back up a specific rating.
 
It doesn't learn Head Smash. Just saying.

I agree with Josh Morales for the most part, but a Jolly one is just short of outpaces MegaZardX, so it's not as good at revenge killing as it could be. But I'm inexperianced with the thing, I've only really fought it once or twice, so I'm not going to back up a specific rating.
Hm? MegaZardX is base 100 speed and Mega Aero is base 150 speed.
 
Mega Aerodactyl does not have low defenses. 80/ 85 / 95 are very respectable and it also outspeeds many choice scarfers and can even clean house late game. Also, an SR lead is not how you use the thing. Heck, is a choice scarfer for how it's designed but it doesn't get locked into a move. I actually quite like it and if I had to rank it, I'd say a B- at least.
I should've said bad defensive typing. It has one immunity (ground), but very very few resistances (it resists bug!!!). It can't use it's flying stab, and stone miss and EQ aren't contact moves, so another thing it's ability can't be used for. I would not consider it a B rank at all. I'm not saying that sr lead is a good option, it could do it though. It has no versatility. It doesn't do its job well, other than being fast. Why use your mega slot on this when you can have lucario, pinsir, charizard, anything.
 
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I should've said bad defensive typing. It has one immunity (ground), but very very few resistances (it resists bug!!!). It can't use it's flying stab, and stone miss and EQ aren't contact moves, so another thing it's ability can't be used for. I would not consider it a B rank at all. I'm not saying that sr lead is a good option, it could do it though. It has no versatility or usability IMO.
The thing is lucky to even get a power boost on its coverage moves. Normal Choice Scarfers don't at all, ya know.
 
Mega-Aerodactyl's speed is about equal to a positive natured base 83 speed Pokemon at +1. It's fast, but not quite as fast as the typical Scarf user.
 
Mega-Aerodactyl's speed is about equal to a positive natured base 83 speed Pokemon at +1. It's fast, but not quite as fast as the typical Scarf user.
I have calced that before but a base 83 scarfer is still enough to outspeed mostly anything other than faster scarfers. You can't deny the fact that it practically is a scarfer and that's how it plays except it's a bit slower than a typical choice scarfer but on the plus side it gets a life orb boost on its coverage moves and it can switch moves.
 
A couple of points about SwagKey:

It does not automatically come in to battle with Swagger + Twave conveniently set up for it.
Turn One: Klefki uses Swagger. The opponent has a 50/50 chance of outright KOing Klefki, and it will have accomplished nothing.
Turn Two: Klefki uses Twave. The opponent has a 37.5% shot at KOing and Klefki before getting a sub up, and it will have accomplished nothing.
Turn Three: Klefki uses Substitute.

Only once you've got status up + a Sub are you in any kind of safety. Klefki requires setup just like any Swords Dance sweeper. And, because of it's relatively low bulk and Swaggers' nasty side effect, this makes it vulnerable during setup. I know the above scenario isn't perfectly accurate, as Klefki might come in on to a choiced dragon move or something (and have to switch, and then Key can get a Sub up etc...), but I just wanted to emphasize that A) Klefki needs to set-up and B) It's vulnerable during this period.

It's also worth pointing out that the best strategies in any meta tend not to rely overly on luck-based strategies. For top players, they can often obtain a better win ratio by abusing strategies which typically require more planning and thought, to put it incredibly vaguely.

Also, your screwed if you go up against one of those players that purposefully sets their Attack IVs to Zero for Special Attackers/ Walls that don't use physical moves.
No offense, but so many problems with this argument:
1. Just because something has been swaggered, that doesn't guarantee Klefki will be OHKO'd, or even 2HKO'd. Klefki has a ton of resistances and special attackers aren't helped by the attack boost at all.
2. While Klefki is "vulnerable" the turn it uses Swagger, it isn't 100% vulnerable. It's "setup" turns also harm the attacker. If you use Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, you are 100% vulnerable to attacks and status, which is why skilled players rely on prediction to know when it is safe to set up. When Klefki sets up, one of two things can happen: the opponent hits and does damage (OHKO not guranteed) or it hits itself in confusion. Klefki is not only 50% vulnerable to its opponent as it sets up, it can actually DAMAGE the opponent WHILE setting up. Also, even if Klefki dies, it hasn't accomplished "nothing." It has crippled a pokemon giving the switch-in a very good chance of having a free turn.
3. Klefki should use Substitute BEFORE using T-wave so that it can get as many chances as it needs for the opponent to hit itself, or the opponent to switch out, and Klefki gets a free sub. Then, Klefki has free reign to do as it pleases. T-Wave is just icing on the cake.
4. Even if the opponent sets their Attack IVs to 0, confusion damage can rack up pretty quickly, and a lot of special attackers really don't enjoy getting paralyzed.
5. It doesn't really matter what the good players use. The fact that I or anyone could theoretically be beaten by someone with less experience/ skill purely because they get lucky using a (almost completely) luck based strategy, means that swag-key is unhealthy for the metagame, and basically just pisses me off lol.

Anyway, just to make this post even remotely on-topic, I think Klefki should be A+ because of its fantastic typing and needing very little support to fulfill its designed purpose, whether its setting hazards, dual screens, thunder-waving, etc. Its only really countered by powerful ground types and electric types, so it can usually set up on anything not in those typings. Also, when are we going to see some movement on the lower rankings? I've seen quite a bit of discussion on things like Haxorus, Houndoom, Exploud, Delphox, etc. and we haven't really gotten anywhere...
 
I have calced that before but a base 83 scarfer is still enough to outspeed mostly anything other than faster scarfers. You can't deny the fact that it practically is a scarfer and that's how it plays except it's a bit slower than a typical choice scarfer but on the plus side it gets a life orb boost on its coverage moves and it can switch moves.
But what coverage moves could it make use of? Crunch? The elemental fangs? Fly?
 
But what coverage moves could it make use of? Crunch? The elemental fangs? Fly?
With Tough Claws, Elemental Fangs hits 84 base power.

That's actually not half bad. Not to mention STAB Stone Edge to hit Gyara, D-nite, and bulkier variants of MegaZardX & Volc(more commonly Volc).

Competition with Scarf Terrakion looks harsh to me though, being able to outpace max speed MegaXardX and all that.
 
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But what coverage moves could it make use of? Crunch? The elemental fangs? Fly?
Aqua tail, Elemental fangs, aerial ace, crunch. Here's the link to the OU analysis for it. Anyways, here's my conclusion.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.
Mega Aerodactyl is a great revenge killer with a blazing fast 150 base speed and a very high base 135 attack. It is so fast that it even puts it in the speed tier of choice scarfers and it plays a very similar role to choice scarfers in battle. It can consistently revenge kill opposing pokemon and even clean up late game when the enemies are nice and tenderized. Mega Aerodactyl also has some great benefits over choice scarfers. Unlike choice scarfers, Mega Aerodactyl has the ability to change moves after initial use, which can help significantly for late game cleaning and it also puts much less stress on using coverage moves on predicted switches because, if you make the wrong prediction, you don't get locked into that, forcing you to switch out. Mega Aerodactyl also gets a great ability in Tough Claws, essentially giving all of its coverage moves a Life Orb boost for free, making the lack of STAB much less significant. Overall, Mega Aerodactyl can very well perform its offensive niche, but it faces very, very stiff competition from Scarf Terrakion. Mega Aerodactyl is slightly more powerful, doesn't get locked into attacks, and has its Tough Claws boosted coverage moves. However, it does take up your mega slot, so much more often than not, Scarf Terrakion seems like a much more appealing choice, allowing you to spend your mega slot on some absurdly powerful sweepers such as Mega Pinsir, Mega Charizard X, or Mega Lucario. By the aforementioned reasons, I say, Mega Aerodactyl - B
 
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I should've said bad defensive typing. It has one immunity (ground), but very very few resistances (it resists bug!!!).
Bit of a nit pick, but Rock/Flying has a total of 5 resistances, one being very notable in Fire, and it also resists Flying, so it makes it a great revenge killer on Talonflame.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 233-274 (77.1 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I haven't heard any love for the lovely Espeon, I'd say it would fit perfectly in B+. It is possibly the best user of Magic Bounce, especially on it's BP set. It's got a pretty good base 110 Speed, and a really good base 130 Special Attack. If you set it up a certain way, it can tank quite a few hits, and also has a way to recover (thought it isn't really reliable). I know I can write a lot more on this, and even in a better way, but I just wanted to bring it up. (I really need some sleep.)
 
When I read the list of ranking mons, I was really surprised that a lot of them hasn't been already mentioned.
There is a really large array of mons usable in OU, I'll say that Politoed, Smeargle, Starmie, MBlastoise, Espeon, Breloom, Cofagrigus, Sableye, Jirachi, Donphan, Celebi, Salamence, Noivern, MGardevoir, Quagsire, Tangrowth, Kingdra, Florges, Abomasnow, Volcarona, all of them have a place in this metagame. But, as I'm not able to describe 20 pokemons in a same post, I'll focus on 5 of them.

First of all, Mega-Blastoise is, to my mind, simply the best Spinner in the game, as he is able to face absolutely all the commons Anti-Spinners and defeat them, thanks to a boosted Dark pulse, and he's the only one able to do such a thing. Gengar, Aegi, Trevenant, Gourgeist, none of them can switch-in on Mega-Blastoise, so he can make a free spin. Particularly, trevenant can defeat nearly all the other spinners, and Mega-Blastoise is the only one who can OHKO him. Moreover, he also puts somme offensive pressure, because I don't know a not water type-immune pokemon who likes taking a boosted Water pulse or an hydo Pump in his face, before a more adapted move (aurasphere, dark pulse). And, even if Blastoise speed isn't really good, his bulk offsets a little. So, I'm not really good at ranking, because it's the first time I do this, but I think MBlastoise is as good or better than Tentacruel, so I'll say at least B rank, more B+ to my mind.

Then, another really good spinner, and better than Tenta : Starmie. He has always been a top tiers, as he can keep an offensive pressure and spin in the same time. Moreover, it has a reliable healing move : recover, and a really good ability in natural cure, what Tentacruel misses. So definitively, A Rank for Starmie.

Now, let me tell you about Politoed. It's the third Water-type pokemon I'm explaining, not that I love the Water-type, but it seems like you forgot it. May be Rain team aren't viable in this new metagame. That's also my opinion. However, I think it's a playstyle that won't disappear, and perish song on Politoed helps a lot. Because it gives you a free turn then to set up with a rain sweeper, and 5 turn of sweep isn't that simple to handle (admitting the rain is set up for 8 turns). But, even if you think that the rain can not be used by this way, you can't say that a Hydro pump from a specs Toed (so 3 times STABBed) doesn't afraid you. So for him, I think that something like C Rank is adapted.

Another Pokemon isn't here, although his little sister is present. I mean Florges. To me, he's better than Sylveon. More Speed, more Special defense, more Special attack, a little more Defense. The only stat where Sylveon beats Florges is the HP, but I don't think it's enough (I may be wrong). I see you saying : but pixilate makes hyper voice stronger, so he has more Sp atk. I don't know how it learns hyper voice, as it's not on Serebii, however it can learn it on Showdown, but when you are a defensive pokemon, the aim isn't to sweep, but to stall. And Moonblast is better, because it can lower the Sp Atk, to stall better than it already does. That's all. And, definitvely, I think the low speed of Sylveon makes it, mmmh, not dangerous? So, Florges : B rank.

Finally, I want to tell you about a pokemon that isn't the best pokemon ever, but a pokemon I really like, and that has some good points in this new Generation. I mean Tangrowth.
Why 6G Tangrowth is not the same as 5G Tangrowth ? Because of Assault Vest, of course. When you think about him, you think about its incredible defense, and the really good Atk, Sp atk and HP stats it has. But you also think about the extraordinary ability it has : regenerator. So, only the speed and the Spe. Def make him less usable. The former isn't that important with a staller, and the second can be boosted thanks to AV.
Now, if you wonder what are the drawbacks of the Assault Vest : for a staller, it's vital to have a healing move, and the AV forbids it to you. With Tangrowth, there isn't such a problem : Giga-Drain allows him to heal himself by doing good damage (110 Sp atk is pretty good). And, besides, Regenerator heals you another time. Isn't that incredible ? Moreover, it has a quite good movepool, not the best but a quite good one. Acces to Giga-drain, Focus Blast, Earthquake, Rock slide, Sludge Bomb, Power Whip, Knock off, and HP fire generally for coverage, is very good. I hope this is enough to convince you Tangrowth has some great abilities in OU. As I really love it, I think B- rank is the Tangrowth's place.

Also, think about all the other mons I mentioned at the beginnig, I really think they have some place in the Ranking tier list.
 
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First of all rotom-h and thunderus-t aren't even on here. Thunderus t should be A or possibly B+ as it looks good on paper but lacks the coverage to wreak havoc with that base 145 SAtk.
I feel rotom-h should be B as it has access to WoW and Twave combined with a strong overheat that puts a dent in anything that doesnt resist it.

Mega Manetric: B+ or A. A strategy that is becoming more popular and the one i've had most success with is volt-turn, mega manectric is amazing on volt turn teams being able to absorb electric attacks then mega evolve to have a blistering base 135 speed and SAtk combined with Tbolt, flamethrower, hp ice + volt switch, it has around the same coverage as genesect plus the ability to outspeed everything non scarf, non megazam/dactyl, and change moves! intimidate is also a great abilty and even allows manectric to take a hit. when used on a team with genesent made genesect feel kinda redundant.

Galvantula: B ranking. Premier sticky web user (sorry smeargle). is really fast and can hit back hard with thunder, the increased bp somewhat make up for its low SAtk.

Zapdos: B- ranking. mostly outclassed by thunderus t or i, has access to heat wave and a sub toxic set inferior to gliscors.

Gliscor: A+ ranking. Dear mother of all toxic stall have mercy, this guy has been quite popular lately so i decided to give him a go. The results were many rage quits and some cursing even. The only real counters are gengar and mamo. skarm makes a good check.
 
When I read the list of ranking mons, I was really surprised that a lot ofwthem hasn't been already mentioned.
There is a really large array of mons usable in OU, I'll say that Politoed, Smeargle, Starmie, MBlastoise, Espeon, Breloom, Cofagrigus, Sableye, Jirachi, Donphan, Celebi, Salamence, Noivern, MGardevoir, Quagsire, Tangrowth, Kingdra, Florges, Abomasnow, Volcarona, all of them have a place in this metagame. But, as I'm not able to describe 20 pokemons in a same post, I'll focus on 5 of them.

First of all, Mega-Blastoise is, to my mind, simply the best Spinner in the game, as he is able to face absolutely all the commons Anti-Spinners and defeat them, thanks to a boosted Dark pulse, and he's the only one able to do such a thing. Gengar, Aegi, Trevenant, Gourgeist, none of them can switch-in on Mega-Blastoise, so he can make a free spin. Particularly, trevenant can defeat nearly all the other spinners, and Mega-Blastoise is the only one who can OHKO him. Moreover, he also puts somme offensive pressure, because I don't know a not water type-immune pokemon who likes taking a boosted Water pulse or an hydo Pump in his face, before a more adapted move (aurasphere, dark pulse). And, even if Blastoise speed isn't really good, his bulk offsets a little. So, I'm not really good at ranking, because it's the first time I do this, but I think MBlastoise is as good or better than Tentacruel, so I'll say at least B rank, more B+ to my mind.

Then, another really good spinner, and better than Tenta : Starmie. He has always been a top tiers, as he can keep an offensive pressure and spin in the same time. Moreover, it has a reliable healing move : recover, and a really good ability in natural cure, what Tentacruel misses. So definitively, A Rank for Starmie.

Now, let me tell you about Politoed. It's the third Water-type pokemon I'm explaining, not that I love the Water-type, but it seems like you forgot it. May be Rain team aren't viable in this new metagame. That's also my opinion. However, I think it's a playstyle that won't disappear, and perish song on Politoed helps a lot. Because it gives you a free turn then to set up with a rain sweeper, and 5 turn of sweep isn't that simple to handle (admitting the rain is set up for 8 turns). But, even if you think that the rain can not be used by this way, you can't say that a Hydro pump from a specs Toed (so 3 times STABBed) doesn't afraid you. So for him, I think that something like C Rank is adapted.

Another Pokemon isn't here, although his little sister is present. I mean Florges. To me, he's better than Sylveon. More Speed, more Special defense, more Special attack, a little more Defense. The only stat where Sylveon beats Florges is the HP, but I don't think it's enough (I may be wrong). I see you saying : but pixilate makes hyper voice stronger, so he has more Sp atk. I don't know how it learns hyper voice, as it's not on Serebii, however it can learn it on Showdown, but when you are a defensive pokemon, the aim isn't to sweep, but to stall. And Moonblast is better, because it can lower the Sp Atk, to stall better than it already does. That's all. And, definitvely, I think the low speed of Sylveon makes it, mmmh, not dangerous? So, Florges : B rank.

Finally, I want to tell you about a pokemon that isn't the best pokemon ever, but a pokemon I really like, and that has some good points in this new Generation. I mean Tangrowth.
Why 6G Tangrowth is not the same as 5G Tangrowth ? Because of Assault Vest, of course. When you think about him, you think about its incredible defense, and the really good Atk, Sp atk and HP stats it has. But you also think about the extraordinary ability it has : regenerator. So, only the speed and the Spe. Def make him less usable. The former isn't that important with a staller, and the second can be boosted thanks to AV.
Now, if you wonder what are the drawbacks of the Assault Vest : for a staller, it's vital to have a healing move, and the AV forbids it to you. With Tangrowth, there isn't such a problem : Giga-Drain allows him to heal himself by doing good damage (110 Sp atk is pretty good). And, besides, Regenerator heals you another time. Isn't that incredible ? Moreover, it has a quite good movepool, not the best but a quite good one. Acces to Giga-drain, Focus Blast, Earthquake, Rock slide, Sludge Bomb, Power Whip, Knock off, and HP fire generally for coverage, is very good. I hope this is enough to convince you Tangrowth has some great abilities in OU. As I really love it, I think B- rank is the Tangrowth's place.

Also, think about all the other mons I mentioned at the beginnig, I really think they have some place in the Ranking tier list.

I agree with most of this but your dead wrong about Florges. It's defense is lower not higher and thanks to Sylveons HP it's Special bulk is only marginally better. It's only role is cleric and since it passes smaller wishes and crumbles under. Physical hits which Sylveon doesn't do, Florges only niche is speed which hardly matters for a cleric. Finally Sylveons greater power in Pixlate hyper voice which it gets in BW2 as an Eevee is the final nail in Florges coffin. If you want to attack, you want it to be as powerful as possible,especially cause they are mono attackers. And Hyper Voice goes through subs.

I agree elsewhere though especially megastoise.
 

Not a missingno

Banned deucer.
I'd like to nominate salamence as C
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.
Salamence is outclassed by Dnite and megazard X as a dragon dance sweeper.
 
Nominating Volcarona for A rank or B+ at worst. It's a bit harder to sweep with than last gen with Talonflame everywhere and needs spin/defog support, but it's still one of the most dangerous set up sweepers in the tier. Also it has a good matchup vs every single pokemon in S rank.
 

November Blue

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is a Contributor Alumnus
Another Pokemon isn't here, although his little sister is present. I mean Florges. To me, he's better than Sylveon. More Speed, more Special defense, more Special attack, a little more Defense. The only stat where Sylveon beats Florges is the HP, but I don't think it's enough (I may be wrong). I see you saying : but pixilate makes hyper voice stronger, so he has more Sp atk. I don't know how it learns hyper voice, as it's not on Serebii, however it can learn it on Showdown, but when you are a defensive pokemon, the aim isn't to sweep, but to stall. And Moonblast is better, because it can lower the Sp Atk, to stall better than it already does. That's all. And, definitvely, I think the low speed of Sylveon makes it, mmmh, not dangerous? So, Florges : B rank.
You're completely wrong about Florges. I've already outlined why, read below:

I've just realized that Florges doesn't learn Shadow Ball or Psyshock. Wow...

Anyway, I had been using Florges for a while as a cleric (this was before Pokebank), and I was unimpressed by the lack of punch behind its Moonblasts. I tried giving it a more offensive EV Spread:

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SAtk / 96 SDef
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast

The spread is arbitrary. I didn't want to go below 394 Special Defense, so I settled for 404, and put the rest in Special Attack, which I thought would give it some much-needed power. With this spread, Florges has a Special Attack stat of 300.

160 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 46.7 - 55.2%

4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 49.2 - 58%

There's really no contest when it comes to offensive prowess.

Taking hits:

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 39.4 - 46.6%

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 37.3 - 44.1%



252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Florges: 43.6 - 51.6%

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 39.4 - 46.6%

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 40.6 - 48.2%


Sylveon has better bulk, more power, bigger wishes, cuter looks, and Hyper Voice goes through subs. It also has better coverage options for an offensive set, and a better movepool. Here are some relevant moves that Florges doesn't learn:

Shadow Ball
Psychock
Reflect
Draining Kiss
Baton Pass
Baby-Doll Eyes

Florges' only advantages in singles are slightly better special bulk (by less than 3% though), and higher Speed. Sylveon is base 60, Florges is 75. Pokemon that fall between these Speeds are Breloom, Tyranitar, Scizor, Skarmory, and Malamar. Important? You decide.

For these reasons, I suggest that Florges be removed from the list completely, and never used when Sylveon is available.

... poor Florges. I kinda like it, but I like Sylveon better. :P
One other thing that bears mentioning is that Sylveon counters Toxic stall Gliscor. Hyper Voice bypasses the Subs and 2HKOs. This is a GODSEND.
 
I agree with most of this but your dead wrong about Florges. It's defense is lower not higher and thanks to Sylveons HP it's Special bulk is only marginally better. It's only role is cleric and since it passes smaller wishes and crumbles under. Physical hits which Sylveon doesn't do, Florges only niche is speed which hardly matters for a cleric. Finally Sylveons greater power in Pixlate hyper voice which it gets in BW2 as an Eevee is the final nail in Florges coffin. If you want to attack, you want it to be as powerful as possible,especially cause they are mono attackers. And Hyper Voice goes through subs.

I agree elsewhere though especially megastoise.
You're completely wrong about Florges. I've already outlined why, read below:



One other thing that bears mentioning is that Sylveon counters Toxic stall Gliscor. Hyper Voice bypasses the Subs and 2HKOs. This is a GODSEND.
Yeah, you both may be right for Florges, unfortunately :( I first didn't find Heal bell and hyper voice on sylveon, so I thought Florges could have a niche but after knowing all of this it seems that it's completely outclassed.
But still, I mentioned 19 others pokemon, Salamence and Volcarona were suggested for a nomination, but what about all the others ?
 
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I'd like to nominate salamence as C


Salamence is outclassed by Dnite and megazard X as a dragon dance sweeper.
Not necessarily, Dnite is a bit slow, and has a tiny bit less Attack. Salamence has two great abilities in Intimidate, and Moxie. Intimidate makes mence more bulky on the defensive side on the switch basically giving it a free Dragon Dance, while Moxie gives you extra attack boosts every time you KO a Pokemon. I'm not sure about Charizard X, but I'm sure Dragonite doesn't outclass it.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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Just gonna answer some of these.
Then, another really good spinner, and better than Tenta : Starmie. He has always been a top tiers, as he can keep an offensive pressure and spin in the same time. Moreover, it has a reliable healing move : recover, and a really good ability in natural cure, what Tentacruel misses. So definitively, A Rank for Starmie.

Another Pokemon isn't here, although his little sister is present. I mean Florges. To me, he's better than Sylveon. More Speed, more Special defense, more Special attack, a little more Defense. The only stat where Sylveon beats Florges is the HP, but I don't think it's enough (I may be wrong). I see you saying : but pixilate makes hyper voice stronger, so he has more Sp atk. I don't know how it learns hyper voice, as it's not on Serebii, however it can learn it on Showdown, but when you are a defensive pokemon, the aim isn't to sweep, but to stall. And Moonblast is better, because it can lower the Sp Atk, to stall better than it already does. That's all. And, definitvely, I think the low speed of Sylveon makes it, mmmh, not dangerous? So, Florges : B rank.

Also, think about all the other mons I mentioned at the beginnig, I really think they have some place in the Ranking tier list.
Starmie, IMO, has lost a bit of its value since it cannot beat the most common spinblocker, Aegislash, while the Grass-type spin blockers, particularly Sitrus Trevenant, can hold their own against it as well. A fast Spin is nice, but is worthless if you cannot do a good job at getting rid of the Ghost. Greninja also gives it severe competition when it comes to all-out sweeping as well. I think B+ suits Starmie well.

Florges's better speed hardly matters when it comes to the targets it can potentially outspeed (Bisharp, Vaporeon...), plus if both Fairies do invest in Speed, Sylveon still manages to outpace the majority of defensive Pokemon, while Florges still falls way too short from the offensive threats. Sylveon's greater HP easily closes the gap between it and Florges while also offering a larger Wish, and Sylveon's Pixilated Hyper Voice (via BW2 tutored Eevee btw) hits way harder than Florges's marginally stronger Moonblast. Oh, and Sylveon can still use Moonblast if it wants the Special Attack drop that badly. Sylveon not only does the support role better than Florges, but can adopt an offensive role much more effectively. The bigger question is: why use Florges over Sylveon at all?

Also, made my case for B- Gardevoir (Mega) for quite a while now.

One other thing that bears mentioning is that Sylveon counters Toxic stall Gliscor. Hyper Voice bypasses the Subs and 2HKOs. This is a GODSEND.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 355-418 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I am liking the idea of Specs Sylveon more and more.
 

November Blue

A universe where hot chips don't exist :(
is a Contributor Alumnus
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 355-418 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I am liking the idea of Specs Sylveon more and more.
Nonono, I meant this:

4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 49.1 - 57.9%

Not really a 2HKO, but if Gliscor has used Substitute, Sylveon can switch in on the Protect and get rid of it. Toxic can just be Bell'd away later.
 
I don't understand, since when MVenusaur is an S-Rank?
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.
Msaur can wall significant portions of the metagame with no support, that's all.
 
Shocked to see mega-venasaur up in S... I was just thinking how underrated and good he is but wow did not expect that... I was about to click here and argue him to B/A rank expecting to see him at C. I'll play with him more.

Otherwise, wtf is Deoxys-S doing at S rank? Defog is so easy; those who do not want hazards (talonflame) will easily get hazards out with latias or skarm or crobat (or whoever, there's a very good distribution). Also, priority in this meta has increased in importance and power, making speed less important. and LO 4 attacks? Can't be the reason he's S. I don't see Deo-S having very many niches, someone pls explain.

Also I argue that umbreon should be in the A tier. The special bulk is insane, countering stuff like latios like its nothing. Foul play is probably the best move in the game, laughing off those SD aegislash. Wish+heal bell support is vital, and aids this new meta with bulky offense. Getting a wish to rotomW, conkeldurr, or aegislash is a joke. This pokemon is better than mandibuzz in everything except taunt and physically defensive typing. Lack of SR weakness is awesome too, relying less on getting your defog poke out.
 
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