Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

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alexwolf

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alexwolf if you're telling me a team that basically autoloses to talonflame, clear smog amoonguss, scizor, bisharp, and in general using your brain is actually good then you're heavily mistaken. smeargle is only even partially competent on one team, barely worthy of c- rank.

edit: ok give severe matchup disadvantage whatever
I suggest you first play against this team or use it a couple of times before commenting on it because it's far from weak to those Pokemon. Yeah Bisharp and Amoonguss can cause some troubles, but nothing that can't be dealt with good playing, similarly to how every team has weaknesses that need to be covered with careful play.
 
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Galvantula is fast enough to setup at least Sticky Web. I agree that it's a bad mon, but as a Sticky Web setter it's better than Smeargle, and Shuckle is better too, being able to tank every hit with its natural bulkyness + Sturdy if needed. Encore can deal with Defog in case of emergency though, but I agree that it's a poor solution. It's also true that Smeargle loses to the most used Defog users as well (Latios and Latias), while the ones it can taunt (Skarmory and Mandibuzz) are becoming less and less common.
 
I'm gonna lobby for Crawdaunt to get boosted up to B-. It has some solid perks to it such as an Adaptability boosted Aqua Jet backed by a base 120 attack stat which actually does more max damage than non-Belly Drum Azumarill (after the Belly Drum of course)

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 125-151 (32.7 - 39.5%) -- 8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 122-146 (31.9 - 38.2%) -- 2.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Crawdaunt also has STAB & Adaptability boosted Knock Off over Azumarill which definitely hurts some switch ins.

Exhibit A: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-159503962

Crawdaunt can also run Crabhammer over Waterfall which helps it deal 20 BP more damage at the cost of being 10% less accurate

Unfortunately for our lobster friend, that's kinda where the fun stops. Its typing makes it weak to some common attacks such as U-Turn, Volt Switch, Close Combat, Thunderbolt, etc. It also lacks the bulk that Azumarill has with 63/87/65 defenses.

Crawdaunt is a VERY strong Pokemon. Don't let the bulk and weaknesses take that away from it. A 100 BP Crabhammer, STAB Knock Off, Adaptability as an ability is NOTHING to ignore and why Crawdaunt deserves a B- ranking.
 

Aragorn the King

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Ok so instead of my normal huge posts, I'm just gonna post about one: Cress.


Cresselia is a really underrated Pokemon now. Ever since the Aegislash ban, Psychic-types have skyrocked in viability, and this is for two reasons. The first reason is the more obvious one; there's one less Pokemon that can abuse Cress. Aegislash resisted Psychic and Ice, is immune to Toxic, didn't really care about Thunder Wave or Hidden Power Fire, and could kill it very easily with Shadow Ball. Now, Cress doesn't have to worry about Aegislash any more, and the other two viable Ghosts don't particularly enjoy dealing with Cress. The second reason is that Aegislash's removal also made Mega Medicham much more common, and so having a Pokemon that resists High Jump Kick and Zen Headbutt is a necessity on every stall team. Many people choose Slowbro for this role, since it also acts as a bulky water, some choose Victini, due to the extreme offensive presence, access to Will-o-Wisp, and Fairy resistance, and some choose Mew, due to its ability to terrorize opposing stall teams. However, Cresselia is also an incredibly viable choice for the role. Cresselia can counter Mega Medicham extremely well, while also countering Charizard-Y (it also can abuse Moonlight's recovery with the sun's boost), Mega Gardevoir, Landorus, Talonflame, Latias, Landorus-T, Latios, Greninja, Garchomp, and some other offensive threats. Of course, it's a defensive Psychic-type, so everyone always talks about how it's complete Pursuit bait. However, its defensive set commonly runs Reflect, which allows it to flee from Pursuit users in relatively good health. Being a defensive Psychic also makes people go crazy over the Knock Off weakness. However, it doesn't mind the move that much, since STAB users of it are somewhat rare now and coverage variants are relatively easily brushed off. An extremely good quality of Cresselia on stall teams is that it hard walls Calm Mind Landorus, which no other stallmon can do. Calm Mind Landorus isn't extremely common, but if you're running a stall team without Cresselia, you will lose to it. Cress also has a couple other pros, like being able to run a good dual screens set, access to Lunar Dance which is great for HO, and Trick Room, which is niche as hell but decent.

I'm not going to just say its pros though. Cresselia obviously has its flaws that prevent it from being a top-tier threat. The most major of these flaws is its incredibly unreliable recovery. Cresselia has the bulk to stand up to the likes of Excadrill, Mega Garchomp, and Talonflame, but sand restricting its recovery is pretty terrible. Moonlight also has low PP, and furthermore is restricted by rain. The only benefits of it are the ability to abuse Charizard-Y's sun, but that isn't that important, considering you avoid the 2hko anyway. Cresselia's offensive presence is also pretty terrible; it can't 2hko stuff like Amoonguss, can't OHKO dragonite after rocks, and only barely 2hkos Keldeo. I've also been stressing how Cress likes its Psychic-typing for Medicham, and it does. However, outside of Cham and Landorus, which again are huge, it relies on tanking super effective and neutral hits a lot. It isn't weak to that many attacks in OU, but it also only resists/is immune to three types, two of which are relatively rare.

When you look at Cress and try to rank her, you see her pros and cons, and have to see how they balance out. On the negative side, it's hurt by unreliable recovery, slight 4MSS, and a very specialized defensive typing that leaves it neutral to most moves. On the positive side, it's able to fulfill multiple niches on stall teams: it's the only stop to CM Landorus, and it also counters multiple other Pokemon, such as Mega Medicham, Charizard-Y, Mega Gardevoir, Landorus, Talonflame, Latias, Latios, Landorus-T, Greninja, and Garchomp, and can check, less reliably, pretty much every other offensive Pokemon that doesn't use Dark/Ghost/Bug STAB. It does struggle against stall teams, but that isn't as important as its handling of offensive teams, since its job is to be a glue mon on stall teams able to counter, or at least check, almost everything in OU. I think its pros outweight its cons, and so, in tandem with its need for some support (something to handle Bug-, Dark-, and Ghost-types as well as weather teams), I think it fits in the B rank perfectly. Comparing it to mons like Staraptor and Celebi is somewhat hard, so I don't think it's a great fit for B. However, I think its capabilities on stall teams equate that of Chesnaught; in fact, they work pretty damn well together. For the reasons above, I think Cresselia should move up to B-.
 

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I noticed that the Mienshao thread was recently unlocked because people decided that it's viable, which means that it should be ranked. I'm gonna propose D for now considering ive never used it, but Fake-Out + U-Turn + Regenerator seems kinda cool and a base 105 speed and 125 attack is by no means bad. Tagging alexwolf here because he unlocked the Mienshao thread and probably knows more about it than i do.
 

alexwolf

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Mienshao seems to have two viable sets. The first has Reckless and Fake Out, acting as a cool anti lead against Sash Garchomp, Sash Breloom, Sash Mamo, Fake Out Mega Medicham, Tyranitar, and Rotom-W, being able to OHKO/2HKO all of those with a combo of Fake Out and HJK, except from PhD Rotom-W, which takes 82% damage minimum from the above combo. On the last two slots, you can run any combination of U-turn, Hidden Power Ice, Stone Edge, and Poison Jab, but HJK alone is enough against a ton of offensive teams, as it 2HKOes at worst most frail or even some bulky resists:
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 194-229 (48 - 56.6%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 175-207 (54.8 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 194-229 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 175-207 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • -1 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 129-152 (38.9 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • -1 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 117-138 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 143-168 (45.9 - 54%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 135-160 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (after one U-turn it's 2HKOed)
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 109-130 (39.3 - 46.9%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Amoonguss: 203-240 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
Not many Pokemon can shut down Mienshao reliably depending on its moveset, in fact only Slowbro, PhD Mega Venusaur, Mew (after one U-turn it's 2HKOed by HJK) and PhD Amoonguss are common hard counters to Reckless Mienshao. Personally, i prefer Hidden Power Ice and U-turn on the last two slots, because Gliscor and Lando-T are really common and being walled by them sucks, and with U-turn you can take advantage of most of your checks and counters while doing at least decent damage to them (see Mew, Slowbro, Latios, Latias, and Cresselia). Poison Jab is only really needed to 2HKO Clefable if you hit her on the switch, as other Fairy-types can't avoid the 2HKO from HJK anyway. Stone Edge is cool for some match-ups, but HJK 2HKOes most of its targets and who likes trying to catch checks on the switch with a 80% accurate unSTABed move, cause i don't. All in all, a decent set that can act as a cool lead and early-game nuke against teams without a hard counter, and even against those it can try some U-turn shenanigans to wear them down, though getting in again can be really hard.

The other set, which is way less useful and i don't even know if i would use is an all out attacker with Regenerator. HJK and U-turn are musts, the first because it's your main move and the second because we all know how great a fast U-turn with Regenerator is. Then, you have four moves to choose from: Poison Jab, Knock Off, Hidden Power Ice, and Stone Edge. What i don't like about this set is that it's main STAB is not that hard to tank even for offensive teams, which means that it needs more prediction, something a Pokemon as frail as Mienshao is not a big fan of. Also, Regenerator isn't as useful as one would think on a Pokemon that never wants to get hit anyway as Mienshao will usually only take residual damage anyway, which means that it would be able to last long enough even without Regenerator, given its limited switch in chances.

I don't think i would use the Regen set, but it may have some merit based on what Ben Gay said to me, so the highest rank i would give to it is D. However, the Fake Out + HJK is a much better set that i think is deserving of C- or C at most, but i am not sure, so i want your opinions guys.
 
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Mienshao should be ranked (I was thinking about nominating it earlier actually). High Jump Kick is super spamable, Fake Out breaks Sashes and eases prediction, U-Turn is great for momentum (common theme to my posts: momentum is king), Knock off is good utility, and Poison Jab and HPIce take care of things that give it trouble. Two helpful abilities and a good speed tier also help. For whatever reason I find Shao very easy to fit into teams. Shao for C- for now.
 

Always!

WAGESLAVE
is a Tiering Contributor
Mienshao seems to have two viable sets. The first has Reckless and Fake Out, acting as a cool anti lead against Sash Garchomp, Sash Breloom, Sash Mamo, Fake Out Mega Medicham, Tyranitar, and Rotom-W, being able to OHKO/2HKO all of those with a combo of Fake Out and HJK, except from PhD Rotom-W, which takes 82% damage minimum from the above combo. On the last two slots, you can run any combination of U-turn, Hidden Power Ice, Stone Edge, and Poison Jab, but HJK alone is enough against a ton of offensive teams, as it 2HKOes at worst most frail or even some bulky resists:
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 194-229 (48 - 56.6%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 175-207 (54.8 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 194-229 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 175-207 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • -1 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 129-152 (38.9 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • -1 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 117-138 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 143-168 (45.9 - 54%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 135-160 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (after one U-turn it's 2HKOed)
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 109-130 (39.3 - 46.9%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Amoonguss: 203-240 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
Not many Pokemon can shut down Mienshao reliably depending on its moveset, in fact only Slowbro, PhD Mega Venusaur, Mew (after one U-turn it's 2HKOed by HJK) and PhD Amoonguss are common hard counters to Reckless Mienshao. Personally, i prefer Hidden Power Ice and U-turn on the last two slots, because Gliscor and Lando-T are really common and being walled by them sucks, and with U-turn you can take advantage of most of your checks and counters while doing at least decent damage to them (see Mew, Slowbro, Latios, Latias, and Cresselia). Poison Jab is only really needed to 2HKO Clefable if you hit her on the switch, as other Fairy-types can't avoid the 2HKO from HJK anyway. Stone Edge is cool for some match-ups, but HJK 2HKOes most of its targets and who likes trying to catch checks on the switch with a 80% accurate unSTABed move, cause i don't. All in all, a decent set that can act as a cool lead and early-game nuke against teams without a hard counter, and even against those it can try some U-turn shenanigans to wear them down, though getting in again can be really hard.

The other set, which is way less useful and i don't even know if i would use is an all out attacker with Regenerator. HJK and U-turn are musts, the first because it's your main move and the second because we all know how great a fast U-turn with Regenerator is. Then, you have four moves to choose from: Poison Jab, Knock Off, Hidden Power Ice, and Stone Edge. What i don't like about this set is that it's main STAB is not that hard to tank even for offensive teams, which means that it needs more prediction, something a Pokemon as frail as Mienshao is not a big fan of. Also, Regenerator isn't as useful as one would think on a Pokemon that never wants to get hit anyway as Mienshao will usually only take residual damage anyway, which means that it would be able to last long enough even without Regenerator, given its limited switch in chances.

I don't think i would use the Regen set, but it may have some merit based on what Ben Gay said to me, so the highest rank i would give to it is D. However, the Fake Out + HJK is a much better set that i think is deserving of C- or C at most, but i am not sure, so i want your opinions guys.
I've used Mienshao, trying to test it out, and I will say it is worthy of C-/C. FO+HJK is a fantastic anti-lead, HP Ice is fantastic for the shitton of 4X Ice weak Pokemon in the tier that think they can counter Shao, High Jump Kick is insane, it dents everything and OHKOes most leads after FO damage, and U-turn helping it grab momentum is amazing. The regen set is decent, but it isn't strong enough to function the same, and Mienshao can't sweep or wallbreak, the only thing it can do is use Knock Off to cripple, and U-turn to GTFO, while other pokemon like Tornadus-T do that better and aren't frail as fuck either. It's definitely worth a ranking though, and the above^ seem perfect, as it's a pretty cool pokemon, it just has little purpose compared to some of the other pokemon in OU. My experience with it, of course, others may have a different opinion.
 
since we are on the subject of mienshao, should its passing set be considered useful at all? A fast Mon that can baton pass subs and swords dances while regenerating is pretty interesting to say the least, and it had useful applications last Gen.
 

Always!

WAGESLAVE
is a Tiering Contributor
since we are on the subject of mienshao, should its passing set be considered useful at all? A fast Mon that can baton pass subs and swords dances while regenerating is pretty interesting to say the least, and it had useful applications last Gen.
Mienshao has bad bulk, which makes setting up tricky, and for the most part, somewhat outclassed by Scolipede (IIRC), meaning that it wouldn't be the wisest choice, although regenerator would make it very interesting to be able to setup more than 4 times with the subs. It's very niche, and the anti-lead set is arguably the better one to run, and most probably the one which it bieng ranked should be based upon, though having that option is cool
 
Both Mega Alakazam and Mega Aerodactly deserve A-. The're both excellent cleaners due to high power + speed tier and both of them have handy abilities (we've already talked about how Trace is NOT a hinderance.). Both of them are just shaping out to be great after the 2 most recent bans and I feel they should reach A-.

Along with Chansey, Skarmory needs to move down due to the number of problems using it. It's quite passive for a start, which is bad news for stall these days. As a result of being passive, stall has far better ways to remove hazards, like bulky Starmie. Even if you want to use it to SET hazards, there are better options. But this isn't Skarmory's only problem. The popularity of Magnezone is incredibly bad news for Skarmory. Whilst that thing is around, Skarmory can't even do it's job safely due to the thing possibly being able to just switch in for a free kill. It's not keeping up with Stall 'a standards anymore and it's made deadweight by a massively popular mon if it happens to appear on the opposite side of the playing field. Heck I might even go as far to say that makes it B Rank, but I don't mind if it only goes to B+.
 
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RichieTheGarchomp

Banned deucer.
Both Mega Alakazam and Mega Aerodactly deserve A-. The're both excellent cleaners due to high power + speed tier and both of them have handy abilities (we've already talked about how Trace is NOT a hinderance.). Both of them are just shaping out to be great after the 2 most recent bans and I feel they should reach A-.

Along with Chansey, Skarmory needs to move down due to the number of problems using it. It's quite passive for a start, which is bad news for stall these days. As a result of being passive, stall has far better ways to remove hazards, like bulky Starmie. Even if you want to use it to SET hazards, there are better options. But this isn't Skarmory's only problem. The popularity of Magnezone is incredibly bad news for Skarmory. Whilst that thing is around, Skarmory can't even do it's job safely due to the thing possibly being able to just switch in for a free kill. It's not keeping up with Stall 'a standards anymore and it's made deadweight by a massively popular mon if it happens to appear on the opposite side of the playing field. Heck I might even go as far to say that makes it B Rank, but I don't mind if it only goes to B+.
Both die from Priority. Id say they are B rank but they sweep like a boss.

Anyways, if you want my ideas, here we go.
Charizard X: S ----> A+

Now, I know you may think this is kind of crazy, but hear me out. Char X is a great pokemon, it deserves great credit as one of the best Dragon types in OU, but I think it has grown weaker after things like Unaware Quagsire and Scarfchomp got more popular. Here is a calc of Scarfchomp Outrage against Char X (Yes, I know Scarfchomp is a check, I do not need to be told.)
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 356-422 (119.8 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And let me note: +1 Speed Char X does NOT outspeed Scarfchomp. So even then its safe to switch in (If you predict Char X to DDance, that is) to KO Charizard X. Anyways, thats enough Scarfchomp talk. Overused pokemon like Azumarill and basically any bulky Fairy/Water type counter/check it.

Garchomp: A ----> A+

Look, I know i am a Garchomp fan, but hear me out. Scarfchomp usually beats big Dragon Type threats like Char X, another Garchomp, and even bulky Dragons like Salamence. Even though it lacks any good Fairy type counter move (Poison Jab and Iron Head don't do anything, trust me) it isn't supposed to. It has decent move versatility, like Stone Edge, EQ, Outrage/DClaw, Fire Blast, Iron Head/Poison Jab, etc. You can run good Azu/Fairy counters/checks like Ferrothorn or Scizor as a switch in. Basically, Scarfchomp can also risk to stay in threats like Greninja and knock him out with Outrage.
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 271-321 (94.7 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
I just think this little monster should be boosted up to A+.

Bye now!
 
Here is a calc of Scarfchomp Outrage against Char X (Yes, I know Scarfchomp is a check, I do not need to be told.)
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 356-422 (119.8 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You don't have to mega evolve right away.
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard: 240-283 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I know it's shaky, but this can result in a mindgame.

Overused pokemon like Azumarill and basically any bulky Fairy/Water type counter/check it.
Doesn't Azumarill lose to Will-O Zard-X, if it's not Belly Azumarill?

About the bulky fairies, am I missing something?
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 252-297 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 112-133 (37.7 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 372-438 (94.4 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
 

Jacks0n

formerly grassycow
-> A+
Tbh this is long overdue. Landorus I is simply not even as close to as good as it was a few months ago. It is really prepared for on every team, with things like sp.def gliscor and tornadus therian roaming around. It is good vs offence, but not great, being quite comfortably revenge killed by a plethora of threats. The main problem I think, is how good landorus T is right now, and you can not use both mons. Landorus therian is such a good pivot with an amazing scarf set and defensive set, the utility, speed and power it provides is insane, and I simply do not think Lando i is better in this current meta stage. Overall Lando i is still good, but because Lando t is so very good right now, it really suffers competition for a team slot.
 

RichieTheGarchomp

Banned deucer.
-> A
Tbh this is long overdue. Landorus I is simply not even as close to as good as it was a few months ago. It is really prepared for on every team, with things like sp.def gliscor and tornadus therian roaming around. It is good vs offence, but not great, being quite comfortably revenge killed by a plethora of threats. The main problem I think, is how good landorus T is right now, and you can not use both mons. Landorus therian is such a good pivot with an amazing scarf set and defensive set, the utility, speed and power it provides is insane, and I simply do not think Lando i is better in this current meta stage. Overall Lando i is still good, but because Lando t is so very good right now, it really suffers competition for a team slot.
FTFY

You don't have to mega evolve right away.
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard: 240-283 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I know it's shaky, but this can result in a mindgame.


Doesn't Azumarill lose to Will-O Zard-X, if it's not Belly Azumarill?

About the bulky fairies, am I missing something?
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 252-297 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 112-133 (37.7 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 372-438 (94.4 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
First, i would like to point out that MANY players Mega into Char X because of its increased bulk. And when people DDance and see Garchomp switch out; they will go for the Dclaw, right?
About Clefable: ok, yes. I know its weak against Char X, I get that. But Clefable isn't the only bulky Fairy type, remember. When MAltaria comes out he will have a LOT of trouble against it.
Also, if it gets to the point where you gotta use crapmons like Togekiss, use it! Its not too shitty anyways.
 
When MAltaria comes out he will have a LOT of trouble against it. Also, if it gets to the point where you gotta use crapmons like Togekiss, use it! Its not too shitty anyways.
It doesn't matter if he will have trouble against it then. Wait two months and then bring this argument.

How does the point with Togekiss even make sense? You DD on it and then kill it.
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 450-529 (120.6 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
8 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 109-130 (36.7 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 

RichieTheGarchomp

Banned deucer.
It doesn't matter if he will have trouble against it then. Wait two months and then bring this argument.

How does the point with Togekiss even make sense? You DD on it and then kill it.
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 450-529 (120.6 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
8 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 109-130 (36.7 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Did you forget the 60% chance to flinch? I mean, factoring hax! this can go on for 3 turns and Toge would win. If Togekiss outspeeds, of course.
Fairy types would not be the best choice anyways. I mean, check out Quag:
252+ Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 64-76 (16.2 - 19.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 57-68 (14.4 - 17.2%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
and so on.
 
Did you forget the 60% chance to flinch? I mean, factoring hax! this can go on for 3 turns and Toge would win. If Togekiss outspeeds, of course.
Fairy types would not be the best choice anyways. I mean, check out Quag:
252+ Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 64-76 (16.2 - 19.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 57-68 (14.4 - 17.2%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
and so on.
I think what Alex said a few pages earlier (I assume you either missed this or didn't read this) makes a lot of sense why Zard X should stay in S Rank.

Mega Charizard X stays in S rank because of its versatility. It has two clear A+ sets in BulkyWisp and SD + Tailwind, and when you take into account bulky DD + Roost, DD + 3 attacks, and Roost + 3 attacks, there is no 100% safe way to play around this thing. Also, with our standards of S rank getting more lax the minute we included Keldeo there, Charizard X also being there is perfectly logical.
EDIT: Until the day Kelds move down from S, (Which correct me if I am wrong but it is still S ranked) Zard X should stay in S rank. Unaware Quag isn't even common anymore (It dropped to UU #Justsaying) it was more common in the BP Meta but now .... yeah.
 

Albacore

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Okay, I've been thinking about this lately and I really feel like Keldeo needs to drop to A+. This is mainly becuase checks to Keldeo are getting better and better in this metagame, and are therefore finding themselves more and more common. According to the 3 month usage stats, the combined usage of Latias and Latios clocks as around 30% which is huge. Azumarill is very common. Amoonguss, Slowbro, Starmie (especially the bulky set which can consistently switch into Keldeo), Celebi, Alomomola, Cresselia, all of these are rising in usage and relevancy. The newfound popularity of Pinsir is also very problematic for Keldeo. Not to mention, a lot of things ,such as MGardevoir or Ferrothorn, can take advatage of it as it locks itself into one move.
Now, I do realise that Keldeo is great at wearing down its switchins and can therefore still preform very well against team with, say, a Lati or an Azumarill. However, the problem with Keldeo arises from the fact that many teams end up having multiple anwsers to it, since Keldeo checks, oddly enough, tend to have good synergy with each other. Latias and Azumarill, for instance, are excellent partners, and I personally find it hard to not use both on offense, let alone either. Keldeo is pretty much deadweight vs any team with a regen core, because not only do you have 2 answers to it (Alomomola, Slowbro, Amoongus, and Torn-T all switch into it), but they are impossible to wear down. Keldeo doesn't fare well against teams with 2 ore more Pokemon that can switch into it decently, and these teams are getting quite common
Keldeo is very very good, don't get me wrong, but the metagame is really hostile towards it right now.

I actually find myself agreeing with moving Crawdaunt up, it may be very frail but it's pretty ridiculous for defensive teams to switch into, and although that's true of a lot of mons atm, most of them take up a mega slot and none of them have the powerful priority Craw has which makes it not completely useless vs offense. Crawdaunt has persoanlly smashed me way too many times for me to consider it worse than say, Conkeldurr
 
Did you forget the 60% chance to flinch? I mean, factoring hax! this can go on for 3 turns and Toge would win. If Togekiss outspeeds, of course.
Fairy types would not be the best choice anyways. I mean, check out Quag:
252+ Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 64-76 (16.2 - 19.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 57-68 (14.4 - 17.2%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
and so on.
Calc'ing base Charizard against Quag is a bit pointless. Here's a slightly more pertinent calc:

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 153-180 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

With just a little bit of prior damage, Quagsire is 2HKO'd. And how on earth is Togekiss outspeeding +1 Char X?
 
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Did you forget the 60% chance to flinch? I mean, factoring hax! this can go on for 3 turns and Toge would win. If Togekiss outspeeds, of course.
Fairy types would not be the best choice anyways. I mean, check out Quag:
252+ Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 64-76 (16.2 - 19.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 57-68 (14.4 - 17.2%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
and so on.
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 229-271 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Quag isn't really a hard counter.
 

RichieTheGarchomp

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Calc'ing base Charizard against Quag is a bit pointless. Here's a slightly more pertinent calc:

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 153-180 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

With just a little bit of prior damage, Quagsire is 2HKO'd. And how on earth is Togekiss outspeeding +1 Char X?
That was a mistake. Sorry about that!
 
Did you forget the 60% chance to flinch? I mean, factoring hax! this can go on for 3 turns and Toge would win. If Togekiss outspeeds, of course.
Fairy types would not be the best choice anyways. I mean, check out Quag:
252+ Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 64-76 (16.2 - 19.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 57-68 (14.4 - 17.2%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
and so on.
If you post calcs, then post some that are even relevant.

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 153-180 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 229-271 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can see, CharX can run Outrage to get past Quagsire if it wants to. Not a good check to begin with if it has a bit of prior damage (Outrage 2HKO it at full health).

Togekiss does not outspeed CharX. If you switch it in on DD, it is slower and OHKO'ed. And for Azumarill:
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 173-204 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is the standard AV set. It cannot come in, so a check at best.

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 173-204 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO

CB Azumarill has a better chance to survive, but only without prior damage or Stealth Rock.

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 173-204 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I am not a fan of posting calcs, but IF you post some to prove a point, do at least some relevant ones.
 
Hydreigon should stay C+. He is extremely hard to switch into, has access to Tailwind if you really hate its Speed, U-turn to scout for Fairy-types, FIRE BLAST (unlike Lati@s and Kyurem-B), Superpower to OHKO T-tar and deal a nice chunk of damage to Heatran. His Choice Specs set can spam Dark Pulse like a motherfucker, especially if Fairy- and Fighting-types are weakened or gone. Hydreigon's main problem is that 98 speed and competition from Kyurem-B and Lati@s, which keep him from being ranked higher in my opinion. But I think Hydreigon is fine in C+.
 
i'm gonna rally for Jellicent at C-.

Jellicent is a pretty underated Pokemon imo. It needs a certain team to work well but in this certain team it's a strong option to consider. It builds a really strong core with 2 of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier: Heatran and Keldeo.

Keldeo has proven to be one of the most threatening Pokemon this gen, annihilating teams late game with it's ridiculous damage as well as help break walls with Secret Sword and Scalds burn chance as well as some serious Power in general. Heatran pairs up well with Keldeo dealing with some of it's most dangerous checks like Latias, Talonflame, Zapdos and Mega-Venusaur, a Pokemon that often forces Keldeo to run HP Flying.
Heatran however opens Keldeo up to run Icy Wind over HP Flying allowing it to hit some of the dangerous bulky Dragontypes like Dragonite that can set up on keldeo for significant Damage on the switch and drop the speed which is especially useful against Lati@s.
Heatran also checks Clefable and Talonflame even Bulk Up if it runs Taunt, Toxics bulky waters on the switch, sets-up Hazards which Keldeo appreciates, phaze and wall very significant threats and the list goes on... Together they form an efficient core only struggling against Bulky water types(which can crippled with toxic but still represent a major threat to the team) and incidentally Keldeo. Jellicent fills up that hole perfectly offering a perfect counter to exactly that, only leaving Greninja with Dark Pulse(which in return will loose some significant coverage the team could further abuse)to break through and otherwise walling it completely an honorable mention also goes to Starmie, Jellicent doesn't handle Psyshocks so well but you can kinda play around Starmie with this core, switching into scald directed at Heatran or into a Rapid spin on a predicted switch or into Heatran on a predicted psyshock. Jellicent also has some of the best support options in his Movepool and the stats to at least get some use out of all of them moves like Wil-o-wisp to cripple physical threats not walled by Heatran like Garchomp or Azumarill that could switch in on Jellicent, It has Recover to increase it's Survivability, A good Stab combination to nail threats on the switch, toxic to further cripple bulky Water types, Taunt, a decent SpAtck stat, Water Absorb! There's a good reason this thing was OU last Gen and while there's also good reason it fell off so hard this Gen i still think it brings a lot of good support options to any team that can afford to run it and Countering an S-Rank Pokemon and Supporting a Core that can run the same as S-Rank Pokemon to huge effect is something at least worth noting.Normally i would say this gives him a D-Rank but just cause Keldeo and Heatran are such amazing pokemon this gen i would say it would sit well at C- may be a bit biased on this one
 
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