Pokémon Zygarde

[adu]

I love how Zygarde gets Dragon Pulse and Yveltal gets Dragon Rush... Both are moves that would be better on the other. (Although Dragon Pulse isn't really that good for Yveltal though). I'm just hoping that's a bug in the game because Zygarde is probably the only Pokemon that could ever use Dragon Rush effectively.

This.
But I seriously doubt it's a glitch.
Coming back to an old comment about Flygon, don't worry, I was just having a bit of a chuckle #OhImSuchAJ0k3rLol

But honestly speaking, Zygarde has incredible defenses, Coil, Priority, resistance to Stealth Rock and good offenses with decent speed to top it off.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, Zygarde isn't expected to #wrek teams after one Coil/Dragon Dance, its bulk allows it to boost 2 or 3 times and THEN it can sweep like there's no tomorrow. Coil is better for boosting attack as it increases durability (so more Coils, so more attack boosts) but Dragon Dancing is good for coverage (don't need to rely on Extreme Speed).
Honestly, when looking at Zygarde, I'm reminded of Calm Mind Manaphy (the best type imo back in the day). Unlike Tail Glow, it Calm Minds twice or thrice, and then kills everything whilst being like invincible on one side of the spectrum.That being said, it shares the same flaw of being weak specially, but its flaw is covered more since with investment, its Special Defense is monstrous.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

This.
But I seriously doubt it's a glitch.
Coming back to an old comment about Flygon, don't worry, I was just having a bit of a chuckle #OhImSuchAJ0k3rLol

But honestly speaking, Zygarde has incredible defenses, Coil, Priority, resistance to Stealth Rock and good offenses with decent speed to top it off.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, Zygarde isn't expected to #wrek teams after one Coil/Dragon Dance, its bulk allows it to boost 2 or 3 times and THEN it can sweep like there's no tomorrow. Coil is better for boosting attack as it increases durability (so more Coils, so more attack boosts) but Dragon Dancing is good for coverage (don't need to rely on Extreme Speed).
Honestly, when looking at Zygarde, I'm reminded of Calm Mind Manaphy (the best type imo back in the day). Unlike Tail Glow, it Calm Minds twice or thrice, and then kills everything whilst being like invincible on one side of the spectrum.That being said, it shares the same flaw of being weak specially, but its flaw is covered more since with investment, its Special Defense is monstrous.

Rather than waste EV's on SpD, I've just been teaming him up with a special wall. Some that come to mind are some fairies. Sylveon and Florges do the job well, as they resist most moves that would be used on Zygarde. Another surprising option is Klefki who can throw a lightscreen up and proceed to annoy the foe to no end. The option I've been using is Tyranitar as it can easily kill a lot of Zygarde counters and gives it passive damage when you switch back in. There's plenty of options to choose from, and I think they merit investigation.

 

[Srn]

I'd like to perhaps mention a specially defensive zygarde set
Zygarde
Leftovers, Careful nature
252hp 252sp def 4att
-rest
-sleep talk
-dragon tail
-earthquake
This set, while is not the best (at all), fulfills a couple specific roles very well. First off, its a really good check to aegislash. Its good bulk allows it to take shadow sneaks, shadow balls, whatever unboosted hits aegislash wants to throw at it. Good aegislash carry shadow ball, and with that, the amount of things that can come in and comfortably wall aegislash no matter what it wants to do is greatly reduced. But this zygarde is pretty ideal to take on unboosted hits from aegislash and can retaliate with an earthquake. It can then rest it all off and try and get lucky with sleep talk. It's also worth noting that sleep mechanics got changed once again so that your sleep counter isn't reset every time you switch out, so rest-talkers in general are more viable now. But this thing also counters rotom-w pretty solidly, those w/out hp ice of course. It only takes 25% from hydro pump, and that's a neutral hit. Clearly will-o-wisp won't be a problem or anything, and you can safely come in on a rotom-w using a volt switch, take a hydro pump or will-o-wisp with no problem, and dragon tail the opponent's answer to your zygarde. It's pretty niche, but if your team is weak to aegislash and rotom-w this thing is definitely worth a try.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

I'd like to perhaps mention a specially defensive zygarde set
Zygarde
Leftovers, Careful nature
252hp 252sp def 4att
-rest
-sleep talk
-dragon tail
-earthquake
This set, while is not the best (at all), fulfills a couple specific roles very well. First off, its a really good check to aegislash. Its good bulk allows it to take shadow sneaks, shadow balls, whatever unboosted hits aegislash wants to throw at it. Good aegislash carry shadow ball, and with that, the amount of things that can come in and comfortably wall aegislash no matter what it wants to do is greatly reduced. But this zygarde is pretty ideal to take on unboosted hits from aegislash and can retaliate with an earthquake. It can then rest it all off and try and get lucky with sleep talk. It's also worth noting that sleep mechanics got changed once again so that your sleep counter isn't reset every time you switch out, so rest-talkers in general are more viable now. But this thing also counters rotom-w pretty solidly, those w/out hp ice of course. It only takes 25% from hydro pump, and that's a neutral hit. Clearly will-o-wisp won't be a problem or anything, and you can safely come in on a rotom-w using a volt switch, take a hydro pump or will-o-wisp with no problem, and dragon tail the opponent's answer to your zygarde. It's pretty niche, but if your team is weak to aegislash and rotom-w this thing is definitely worth a try.

1. The only good counter to Aeglislash is a trainer that can beat everyone at head games
2. While this set does work, its typically less effective than other resttalk sets like dragonite and gyarados

 

[Lord Jesseus]

1. The only good counter to Aeglislash is a trainer that can beat everyone at head games

I find spamming Earthquake does the trick...

 

[Zido]

Zygarde@Leftovers/Yache Berry
252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
Adamant Nature

Dragon Dance
Coil
Earthquake
Stone Edge

You're probably wondering why I included both Coil AND Dragon Dance. The thing is, Zygarde can't manage with either one alone.

If you try running just Dragon Dance to make him a sweeper, the problem is his lack of good/reliable sweeping moves.

The problems with Dragon Dance:

-Outrage is a bad move for a sweeper, because it leaves him vulnerable; your opponent can send in a Fairy or Steel type Pokemon to begin setup or countering while you waste a turn or two with an ineffective attack. And in addition, even if they don't use a fairy/steel type, the best you can hope for is confusion. Outrage works well for non-setup based Pokemon, like Garchomp, but if you intend to sweep, it's gonna betray you.
-Stone Edge is also bad for a sweeper; although powerful, its unreliable accuracy can give your opponent the opportunity to counter you if you miss.
-Return is reliable and somewhat powerful, but it does nothing for coverage, and its lack of STAB on Zygarde renders it rather ineffective.
-Extreme Speed is a great move, but Zygarde with DD doesn't have much use for it. He outspeeds everything after a few boosts, and even if they go for a priority move, there is no common priority user that poses a threat to Zygarde's great physical bulk. Yes, I already checked for Ice Shard - even a Choice-Banded 252+ Mamoswine isn't guaranteed to OHKO Zygarde after 252 HP investment.
-Earthquake and Crunch are the only good moves for sweeping that he has; they both have a decent power and 100% accuracy, with no harmful side effects, while also providing coverage.

If you try running just Coil to turn him into a physical tank with access to a reliable Stone Edge, the problem is his speed and special bulk.

The problems with Coil:
Basically, the problem with Coil boils down to, "You're not fast enough to outspeed everything, and therefore, anything with Ice Beam and a decent speed stat ends your setup immediately, and all those Defense boosts were for nothing."
You might be thinking that if you run Extreme Speed, you can outspeed them to OHKO with the help of your offensive boosts. Unfortunately, an 80 BP move with no STAB and no chance of being SE is not a very reliable OHKO move, even after a few attack boosts. Granted, Extreme Speed would still be a good move to run on a Coil Zygarde; In fact, a Coil set isn't really a bad idea - it's just an easily counterable one.

So, try running Coil AND Dragon Dance, with Earthquake/Stone Edge. Here's how it goes down:

-Earthquake/Stone Edge form a nearly unresisted type duo, with only Breloom, Torterra, Virizion, and Chesnaught resisting it. It also has great Super -Effective Coverage, being strong against a total of 363 Pokemon between the two.
-Stone Edge has its unreliable 80% accuracy fixed by Coil's Accuracy boost.
-Earthquake is an already-reliable move with 100% accuracy, 100 BP, great Super Effective coverage, and STAB.
-Dragon Dance boosts your Speed, allowing you to sweep, and outspeed those pesky Ice Beam attackers and KO them with Super Effective Stone Edge.
-Coil boosts your Defense, letting you take even less damage from priority moves. Although there's virtually no priority attacker that poses a threat to Zygarde on its own, a few of them, especially Ice Shard, would still wear him down, or KO him if he was already weakened during setup.

Between Coil and Dragon Dance, you end up with a great Attack stat in addition to a reliably powerful EdgeQuake combo, the Speed necessary to sweep, and the physical bulk to easily take priority attacks.

With priority no longer an issue due to his immense physical bulk after all those Coils, the only thing that can hope to counter Zygarde would be something bulky enough to take a hit and counter with a special-based Dragon- or Ice-type move. Well, that's all I can see anyway - I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts on this set.

 

[Edgar81539]

Zygarde@Leftovers/Yache Berry
252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
Adamant Nature

Dragon Dance
Coil
Earthquake
Stone Edge

You're probably wondering why I included both Coil AND Dragon Dance. The thing is, Zygarde can't manage with either one alone.

If you try running just Dragon Dance to make him a sweeper, the problem is his lack of good/reliable sweeping moves.

The problems with Dragon Dance:

-Outrage is a bad move for a sweeper, because it leaves him vulnerable; your opponent can send in a Fairy or Steel type Pokemon to begin setup or countering while you waste a turn or two with an ineffective attack. And in addition, even if they don't use a fairy/steel type, the best you can hope for is confusion. Outrage works well for non-setup based Pokemon, like Garchomp, but if you intend to sweep, it's gonna betray you.
-Stone Edge is also bad for a sweeper; although powerful, its unreliable accuracy can give your opponent the opportunity to counter you if you miss.
-Return is reliable and somewhat powerful, but it does nothing for coverage, and its lack of STAB on Zygarde renders it rather ineffective.
-Extreme Speed is a great move, but Zygarde with DD doesn't have much use for it. He outspeeds everything after a few boosts, and even if they go for a priority move, there is no common priority user that poses a threat to Zygarde's great physical bulk. Yes, I already checked for Ice Shard - even a Choice-Banded 252+ Mamoswine isn't guaranteed to OHKO Zygarde after 252 HP investment.
-Earthquake and Crunch are the only good moves for sweeping that he has; they both have a decent power and 100% accuracy, with no harmful side effects, while also providing coverage.

If you try running just Coil to turn him into a physical tank with access to a reliable Stone Edge, the problem is his speed and special bulk.

The problems with Coil:
Basically, the problem with Coil boils down to, "You're not fast enough to outspeed everything, and therefore, anything with Ice Beam and a decent speed stat ends your setup immediately, and all those Defense boosts were for nothing."
You might be thinking that if you run Extreme Speed, you can outspeed them to OHKO with the help of your offensive boosts. Unfortunately, an 80 BP move with no STAB and no chance of being SE is not a very reliable OHKO move, even after a few attack boosts. Granted, Extreme Speed would still be a good move to run on a Coil Zygarde; In fact, a Coil set isn't really a bad idea - it's just an easily counterable one.

So, try running Coil AND Dragon Dance, with Earthquake/Stone Edge. Here's how it goes down:

-Earthquake/Stone Edge form a nearly unresisted type duo, with only Breloom, Torterra, Virizion, and Chesnaught resisting it. It also has great Super -Effective Coverage, being strong against a total of 363 Pokemon between the two.
-Stone Edge has its unreliable 80% accuracy fixed by Coil's Accuracy boost.
-Earthquake is an already-reliable move with 100% accuracy, 100 BP, great Super Effective coverage, and STAB.
-Dragon Dance boosts your Speed, allowing you to sweep, and outspeed those pesky Ice Beam attackers and KO them with Super Effective Stone Edge.
-Coil boosts your Defense, letting you take even less damage from priority moves. Although there's virtually no priority attacker that poses a threat to Zygarde on its own, a few of them, especially Ice Shard, would still wear him down, or KO him if he was already weakened during setup.

Between Coil and Dragon Dance, you end up with a great Attack stat in addition to a reliably powerful EdgeQuake combo, the Speed necessary to sweep, and the physical bulk to easily take priority attacks.

With priority no longer an issue due to his immense physical bulk after all those Coils, the only thing that can hope to counter Zygarde would be something bulky enough to take a hit and counter with a special-based Dragon- or Ice-type move. Well, that's all I can see anyway - I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts on this set.

Ha, the classic Double Boosting set, carried over from Terrakion. As any other double boosting set, I love it!!

 

[Zido]

Ha, the classic Double Boosting set, carried over from Terrakion. As any other double boosting set, I love it!!

I actually had no idea Terrakion ran such a set, I just spent about three hours analyzing Zygarde last night after catching him to see what he could do :P

 

[Mastahmongo]

I find spamming Earthquake does the trick...

Not one running WP.

 

[Edgar81539]

I actually had no idea Terrakion ran such a set, I just spent about three hours analyzing Zygarde last night after catching him to see what he could do :P

Yeah, since it had the same good coverage on EdgeQuake, it used a double boosting set with Swords Dance/Rock Polish to wreck things. Obviously Zygarde works differently, and the STAB from Stone Edge is missed, but Coil patchs up possible misses and it has a lot of more survivavility than Terrakion, once you take out all possible Ice users.

 

[Zido]

Yeah, since it had the same good coverage on EdgeQuake, it used a double boosting set with Swords Dance/Rock Polish to wreck things. Obviously Zygarde works differently, and the STAB from Stone Edge is missed, but Coil patchs up possible misses and it has a lot of more survivavility than Terrakion, once you take out all possible Ice users.

Indeed. Zygarde has decent special bulk, so he could probably take a Dragon Pulse or two if the opponent isn't too powerful with special offense, which leaves physically-bulky, specially offensive Pokemon with Ice attacks to counter him. The only Pokemon that gets STAB on Ice moves and isn't weak to Rock is Mamoswine, but Mamoswine is based on physical offense rather than special, so he doesn't meet those requirements. And since he doesn't resist Zygarde's STAB EQ, even his fairly high physical bulk will fall before a boosted Zygarde. That means that you'd need a physically bulky special attacker that DOESN'T get STAB on ice, which seems like it would be uncommon to me. Otherwise, your best bet would be a very powerful special-based Dragon with high physical bulk that isn't weak to Rock or Ground. Outside of Ubers, there is none.

However, I just noticed something I previously overlooked. The coverage calculator I was using doesn't account for abilities like Levitate, which adds Flygon and Bronzong to the list of Pokemon that resist EdgeQuake. However, even with them, none of the Pokemon that resist EdgeQuake are based on special offense, so they're not much of an issue.

 

[Edgar81539]

Indeed. Zygarde has decent special bulk, so he could probably take a Dragon Pulse or two if the opponent isn't too powerful with special offense, which leaves physically-bulky, specially offensive Pokemon with Ice attacks to counter him. The only Pokemon that gets STAB on Ice moves and isn't weak to Rock is Mamoswine, but Mamoswine is based on physical offense rather than special, so he doesn't meet those requirements. And since he doesn't resist Zygarde's STAB EQ, even his fairly high physical bulk will fall before a boosted Zygarde. That means that you'd need a physically bulky special attacker that DOESN'T get STAB on ice, which seems like it would be uncommon to me. Otherwise, your best bet would be a very powerful special-based Dragon with high physical bulk that isn't weak to Rock or Ground. Outside of Ubers, there is none.

However, I just noticed something I previously overlooked. The coverage calculator I was using doesn't account for abilities like Levitate, which adds Flygon and Bronzong to the list of Pokemon that resist EdgeQuake. However, even with them, none of the Pokemon that resist EdgeQuake are based on special offense, so they're not much of an issue.

I seriously doubt we see a rise on use of both Flygon and Bronzong, given that Gen VI wasn't kind to them (One weakness Bronzong cries), but you can always use Mega-Absol as a counter to the later and the same Mamoswine/fast Ice user mon for the another.

 

[farranpoison]

You know what I wish? I wish Zygarde's Land's Wrath move had the ability to hit Flying types. Maybe then it'd be a great alternative to Earthquake, and it'd make Rotom-S finally have a use to counter it-oh wait, every other Rotom can avoid that too.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

Not one running WP.

I'm sorry, WP is...?

 

[graymonkey0]

So what do you all think, should I keep soft resetting or keep this?

Adamant
21/31/31/31/25/31

I feel that's about as good as I'm going to get.

 

[Suplup]

You know what I wish? I wish Zygarde's Land's Wrath move had the ability to hit Flying types. Maybe then it'd be a great alternative to Earthquake, and it'd make Rotom-S finally have a use to counter it-oh wait, every other Rotom can avoid that too.

Even if it doesn't hit Flying Types, I will keep Land's Wrath on my Zygarde because when I smash through the restaurants for money, I don't want my Aegislash getting killed in the meantime. Also, it's his signature move, looks cooler, and is only 10 less BP, so I'm not losing much by using it instead.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Even if it doesn't hit Flying Types, I will keep Land's Wrath on my Zygarde because when I smash through the restaurants for money, I don't want my Aegislash getting killed in the meantime. Also, it's his signature move, looks cooler, and is only 10 less BP, so I'm not losing much by using it instead.

Well, this is the competitive singles board, and in competitive singles there's no reason to use Land's Wrath over Earthquake.

 

[Suplup]

Well, this is the competitive singles board, and in competitive singles there's no reason to use Land's Wrath over Earthquake.

That's true. I do wish it had something over Earthquake in Singles. I don't know what it could have though, other than the hit flyers as you said. But even that might be going too far. Perhaps it could have inate Mold Breaker? Alas, this isn't the board for throwing out guesses either.

I like the double boosting set, I might use that. Is there any reason to use Outrage on Zygarde? Or should I give it up for ES or DD?

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

That's true. I do wish it had something over Earthquake in Singles. I don't know what it could have though, other than the hit flyers as you said. But even that might be going too far. Perhaps it could have inate Mold Breaker? Alas, this isn't the board for throwing out guesses either.

I like the double boosting set, I might use that. Is there any reason to use Outrage on Zygarde? Or should I give it up for ES or DD?

On one side, outrage is Zygarde's only decent dragon move, and it has decent coverage that's great with earthquake, on the other getting locked into a move is dangerous in the best of circumstances. I'd say running extreme speed is preferable (though others report having success running a psuedo double dance set) in most cases, though its a bloody shame with how great Zygarde could be with better dragon moves

 

[Zido]

I like the double boosting set, I might use that. Is there any reason to use Outrage on Zygarde? Or should I give it up for ES or DD?

I tested the set I proposed and it worked beautifully.

EDIT: As the first link is no longer working, here's another replay that demonstrates the set.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankoubeta-61651383

 

[Jaroda]

How many dances/coils are you able to reliably get off? I should think your EVs should get to a certain speed number so that you require fewer dances then you do coils. If Adamant for example a single Dragon Dance with 152 spd EVs will allow you to outspeed base 130s like Crobat and Mega Gengar. So a spread of Adamant 104 HP / 252 At / 152 Spd seems most efficient to me. No speed investment with a Dragon Dance will only let you speed tie base 105s.

Also, Leftovers or Yache Berry?

 

[Zido]

How many dances/coils are you able to reliably get off? I should think your EVs should get to a certain speed number so that you require fewer dances then you do coils. If Adamant for example a single Dragon Dance with 152 spd EVs will allow you to outspeed base 130s like Crobat and Mega Gengar. So a spread of Adamant 104 HP / 252 At / 152 Spd seems most efficient to me. No speed investment with a Dragon Dance will only let you speed tie base 105s.

Also, Leftovers or Yache Berry?

I run a combo that involves Uxie for setup, it's one I've been using for a while, and it helps immensely. Basically, I send Uxie in with Light Clay and Dual Screens. Set up the screens, then use Yawn, then use Memento. If they switch out to avoid falling asleep, Memento hits whatever they switch in. Then I send in Zygarde, who now has the opportunity to begin setup behind two screens against an opponent that any decent player will be forced to switch out, giving him a free turn. Typically with this setup I can get two DD's, and Coils are easy after one DD.. It's true that with some speed investment it would only take one DD to outspeed most 130s - however, I prefer the ability to reliably outspeed everything relevant, so I want to go for two DD's anyway, in which case speed investment won't matter.

As for Leftovers/Yache berry, I personally prefer Leftovers, as it's his only method of recovery; Yache Berry could end up being useless if your opponent doesn't carry any threatening ice attackers. However, I can see why some people would want it, so it's still worth considering.

 

[Jaroda]

Well that's my point. A certain amount of speed investment can put you over a higher amount of threats faster. Latios is base 110 after all and can certainly kill you with a Draco Meteor and soars right over your EQ. I think at the bare minimum you should run 16 speed EVs to outrun Latios after a dance. That's very easy to include.

 

[Kadabrium]

I run a combo that involves Uxie for setup, it's one I've been using for a while, and it helps immensely. Basically, I send Uxie in with Light Clay and Dual Screens. Set up the screens, then use Yawn, then use Memento. If they switch out to avoid falling asleep, Memento hits whatever they switch in. Then I send in Zygarde, who now has the opportunity to begin setup behind two screens against an opponent that any decent player will be forced to switch out, giving him a free turn. Typically with this setup I can get two DD's, and Coils are easy after one DD.. It's true that with some speed investment it would only take one DD to outspeed most 130s - however, I prefer the ability to reliably outspeed everything relevant, so I want to go for two DD's anyway, in which case speed investment won't matter.

As for Leftovers/Yache berry, I personally prefer Leftovers, as it's his only method of recovery; Yache Berry could end up being useless if your opponent doesn't carry any threatening ice attackers. However, I can see why some people would want it, so it's still worth considering.

Except when the opponent brings in any wall or support mon and throw a toxic or WoW in your face.
Seriously I have been considering running sub, with trolls like klefki, gliscor, rotom flying all over the place.

 

[Zido]

Except when the opponent brings in any wall or support mon and throw a toxic or WoW in your face.
Seriously I have been considering running sub, with trolls like klefki, gliscor, rotom flying all over the place.

It's true that utility walls like Skarmory are a big problem for the set. Of course, as someone said earlier, don't try to set up right in the face of its weakness.