Ok got it. This is what I want for the forum, people not yelling at other people for a mistake.Yeah you are wrong. Dynamax was banned in December of 2019 and SS were released in November of 2019.
Ok got it. This is what I want for the forum, people not yelling at other people for a mistake.Yeah you are wrong. Dynamax was banned in December of 2019 and SS were released in November of 2019.
For real, I guess they must have hated stall, which is extremely difficult to build right now, btw.The real enemies were Unaware mons we made along the way.
But for real, who tf said unaware was banworthy? I guess they want to make the metagame even worse.
I agree, I hate those breaking swipe sets with a passion.hopefully the suspect goes up either tonight or sometime tomorrow cuz i want gouging fire gone so badly. bulky DD variants are pure cancer and offensive DD/choice band sets are unwallable if you aren't running dachsbun
This is especially the case with Tera. Any Mon can become viable when you can catch your opponent by surprise. One of the best (and at times worst) things about Tera/this meta.I firmly believe that with enough pratice and teambuilding, anything can be used in an OU match. I've used things from registeel, to dachsbun, to magnezone, to garticuno, to the legendary beasts. Heck, I've used lick on a mon and it was amazing. If something like cacturne which has never had a niche in OU outside of Gen 3 can be used and be great, I think that shows how diverse the metagame is.
You just need to know how to build around that mon. This metagame is both extremely restricting on teambuilding, but also the most expressive there is, if you get what I mean.
is it? i feel like stall would be easier to build because all its teams follow the same structure: blissey + dozo + clod + regen mon + knock absorber + sixth thing that isn't actually a stallmonFor real, I guess they must have hated stall, which is extremely difficult to build right now, btw.
The sixth thing is usually a defogger like Talonflame or Corv, which are kinda stallmonsis it? i feel like stall would be easier to build because all its teams follow the same structure: blissey + dozo + clod + regen mon + knock absorber + sixth thing that isn't actually a stallmon
Either that or you run two knock absorbers and 4 HDB users. That's what I've been running.The sixth thing is usually a defogger like Talonflame or Corv, which are kinda stallmons
That’s just copying another team, authentically building an actual stall team is immensely difficult with the insane amount of offensive Pokémon in the meta, time to bust out utility umbrella dozo ig lol.is it? i feel like stall would be easier to build because all its teams follow the same structure: blissey + dozo + clod + regen mon + knock absorber + sixth thing that isn't actually a stallmon
Conflux123 , please don’t quadruple post. Just respond to everyone in the same post.
Just wondering, but what are you using in the fourth moveslot? I'm guessing its taunt because you can't use e-quake, but I'd like to know if its something wacky like iron head, which can be great for fairies, or stomping tantrum for that ground coverage (which I didn't know it got until I looked it up, thought it only got e-quake as coverage).Recently, I stated that I was inspired to try Roaring Moon with a defensive boosting item. So I now have a preliminary Grassy Terrain team. In the process, I also realized that Grassy Seed was perfect to fix my failed Body Press Raging Bolt idea for awhile back. It's maybe a bit strange to have two Grassy Seed dragons on the same team, but this is a test team anyways. It seems to work ok in my first few games with it. It's still way too early to make any real conclusions, but preliminarily I have good news and bad news.
The good news is the Raging Bolt set actually seems good. Because Body Press counts as a physical attack with no attack investment, you can get both extra bulk and a mixed set at the same time. Max Defense Body Press with a defense boost hits a lot of things the most opponents won't expect, like Blissey, Ting-Lu, Iron Treads, and Heatran. Tera Fighting is actually decent defensively as well, except for needing to be careful with fairy STAB. It is kind of neat. Maybe an experienced player would see the Grassy Seed as a giveaway if the set became popular enough. It still seems pretty decent.
The bad news is Roaring Moon seems broken. I mean, we already knew that. But Grassy Seed and no bulk investment allows you to set up in more things faces than you really should be able to, particularly with Tera being an option. At this point, I don't know if the success is really due to the Grassy Seed itself or if base Moon is just that cracked. But at the very least, it lives more priority and is a bit harder to revenge kill. It's not reliant on Booster Energy to be a problem. Honestly, I feel kind of gross just using it.
Anyways, these are just my preliminary thoughts. The team and these concept needs much more testing. Normally I wouldn't post this early about it. I just really have a hard time seeing either concept washing out. Sometimes you can just tell if something will flop or be at least solid.
Just wondering, but what are you using in the fourth moveslot? I'm guessing its taunt because you can't use e-quake, but I'd like to know if its something wacky like iron head, which can be great for fairies, or stomping tantrum for that ground coverage (which I didn't know it got until I looked it up, thought it only got e-quake as coverage).
Might also try out the grassy seed moon, just to see how it goes.
Ah okay, that makes sense. On my set I'm thinking of using roost because of the defense boost and combining that with tera fairy, it could allow moon to get multiple boosts at once. Tera fairy means it resists fighting and dark, which is great for defensive utility.Honestly, I tried a number of moves like Iron Head and Teras like Steel and Fairy. But I went back to Earthquake and Tera Flying Acrobatics because the coverage was better. There aren't many mons in the tier that resists Flying/Ground coverage. Basically just the metal birds since Zapdos fell off. I know Grassy Glide nerfs EQ, but it's also boosted by DD. You really only need it for mons that resist Knock Off and Acrobatics anyways. Also, Grassy Terrain is only 5 turns total because I don't run Terrain Extender. So by the time Roaring Moon comes in, there often aren't many turns left. Between that and the DD boosts, I think it's actually ok to run EQ as a coverage move on Grassy Terrain.
I may wind up changing this later, tweaking moves and EVS, and so on. But right now that is what seems the strongest.
Could this mean jaw lock roost moon could be brought back? That could be very interesting with grassy seed.Ah okay, that makes sense. On my set I'm thinking of using roost because of the defense boost and combining that with tera fairy, it could allow moon to get multiple boosts at once. Tera fairy means it resists fighting and dark, which is great for defensive utility.
I wish you well on your adventures to moon cheese.
Probably not, knock off is just a lot better and trapping yourself in could be problematic if they switch to something that counters moon. Definetely a cool idea, but probably not a good one.Could this mean jaw lock roost moon could be brought back? That could be very interesting with grassy seed.
Yeah it’s more of a meme idea to troll people, but it would be funny to have like max atk max def moon with jaw lock and roost to get to plus six against your poor opponent.Probably not, knock off is just a lot better and trapping yourself in could be problematic if they switch to something that counters moon. Definetely a cool idea, but probably not a good one.
Disagree. Most balance structures are down bad and are locked to specific choices imo. Compared to prior gens, we do not have the diverse selection of bulky waters or grass-types this gen. Mons like Slowbro and Toxapex got nerfed to the ground, and other mons like Ferro and Tangrowth simply don't exist. This, on top of increase hazard pressure makes water-type offense too strong in general. This is part of the reason a mon like Urshifu-RS is broken here, since many of its prior answers like Helmet Toxapex (which could Knock Off its Pads), Slowbro, etc are noticably less viable due to exerting less pressure and having less options availible. However, Woger imo is even more broken that Urshifu-RS because its Grass-STAB smashes through all the commonly used Water resist on Balance like Mola and Dozo. Its really only Amoonguss that can answer it and that has a decent amount of overlap with Gking, and is similarly passive into other mons like Gambit, Gliscor, and Ghold. With sleep banned, amoongus is also notably worse now than in the past. The fact is that Woger has all the coverage in the world to beat any counterplay that arises, making it difficult to truly respond to, on top of a fantastic 350 Speed tier which is significantly better than Urshifu-RS. They gave this mon everything. Spikes, Knock Off, Play Rough, Zen Headbutt, and Superpower give this Pokemon multiple ways to completely destroy balance teams and bulky teams.I'm really pleased to see the community rallying around action on Gouging Fire, but I am a bit disappointed to see Wogerpon scoring so high. Unlike something like Gouging Fire--or even Roaring Moon or Raging Bolt for that matter--it genuinely adds something unique to the tier. It's a breaker with defensive presence, a physical attacker that threatens Great Tusk, a creative mon with a flexible yet limited movepool for coverage or utility. It's very strong, but unlike other powerful mons we've seen in Gen 9, it has very exploitable weaknesses. It cannot get over 350 speed without Trailblaze, which is difficult to execute; it cannot hold Boots, leaving it vulnerable to hazard chip; and it cannot Tera into anything but Water, limiting its ability to flip matchups. Fat balance and stall are very strong right now, despite how powerful some offensive threats are, and Wogerpon is one of the few mons who can force progress against those denser structures. Answers to Rain or Walking Wake are difficult to fit on offense, but Wogerpon offers an option to deter the use of offensive water moves (or even defensive moves like Alomomola's Flip Turn). These are veritable benefits to the tier, and if we're trying to reduce the power level of OU, I'd look to boosting wincons like Gouging Fire, Volcarona, and Raging Bolt before Wogerpon.
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 290-344 (57.5 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKODisagree. Most balance structures are down bad and are locked to specific choices imo. Compared to prior gens, we do not have the diverse selection of bulky waters or grass-types this gen. Mons like Slowbro and Toxapex got nerfed to the ground, and other mons like Ferro and Tangrowth simply don't exist. This, on top of increase hazard pressure makes water-type offense too strong in general. This is part of the reason a mon like Urshifu-RS is broken here, since many of its prior answers like Helmet Toxapex (which could Knock Off its Pads), Slowbro, etc are noticably less viable due to exerting less pressure and having less options availible. However, Woger imo is even more broken that Urshifu-RS because its Grass-STAB smashes through all the commonly used Water resist on Balance like Mola and Dozo. Its really only Amoonguss that can answer it and that has a decent amount of overlap with Gking, and is similarly passive into other mons like Gambit, Gliscor, and Ghold. With sleep banned, amoongus is also notably worse now than in the past. The fact is that Woger has all the coverage in the world to beat any counterplay that arises, making it difficult to truly respond to, on top of a fantastic 350 Speed tier which is significantly better than Urshifu-RS. They gave this mon everything. Spikes, Knock Off, Play Rough, Zen Headbutt, and Superpower give this Pokemon multiple ways to completely destroy balance teams and bulky teams.
In the previous metagame, I thought that Woger was a neccessary evil because its fast Encore and typing were useful to check the dangerous Manaphy, which had limited defensive counterplay. However, now, Manaphy sees next to no use so the services as a Manaphy check aren't as needed. Furthermore, Ogerpon runs Encore far less in favor of coverage to make its number of answers even more limited, so its merely become the very thing it was meant to destroy.
At this stage of the metagame, I'd argue Urshifu-RS would be a much healthier presence, since its significantly slower, its typing has more key weaknesses (namely to Future Sight and Thunderclap) and it would provide some much needed counterplay to Kingambit and Gliscor (which are two other Pokemon players are complaining about). Furthermore, it has more 4MSS due to possessing weaker coverage than Woger. However, we have never really remotely entertained the possibility of dropping Shifu-RS back down (perhaps rightfully so, I am still biased against the way the QB Happened).
Disagree. Most balance structures are down bad and are locked to specific choices imo. Compared to prior gens, we do not have the diverse selection of bulky waters or grass-types this gen. Mons like Slowbro and Toxapex got nerfed to the ground, and other mons like Ferro and Tangrowth simply don't exist. This, on top of increase hazard pressure makes water-type offense too strong in general. This is part of the reason a mon like Urshifu-RS is broken here, since many of its prior answers like Helmet Toxapex (which could Knock Off its Pads), Slowbro, etc are noticably less viable due to exerting less pressure and having less options availible. However, Woger imo is even more broken that Urshifu-RS because its Grass-STAB smashes through all the commonly used Water resist on Balance like Mola and Dozo. Its really only Amoonguss that can answer it and that has a decent amount of overlap with Gking, and is similarly passive into other mons like Gambit, Gliscor, and Ghold. With sleep banned, amoongus is also notably worse now than in the past. The fact is that Woger has all the coverage in the world to beat any counterplay that arises, making it difficult to truly respond to, on top of a fantastic 350 Speed tier which is significantly better than Urshifu-RS. They gave this mon everything. Spikes, Knock Off, Play Rough, Zen Headbutt, and Superpower give this Pokemon multiple ways to completely destroy balance teams and bulky teams.
In the previous metagame, I thought that Woger was a neccessary evil because its fast Encore and typing were useful to check the dangerous Manaphy, which had limited defensive counterplay. However, now, Manaphy sees next to no use so the services as a Manaphy check aren't as needed. Furthermore, Ogerpon runs Encore far less in favor of coverage to make its number of answers even more limited, so its merely become the very thing it was meant to destroy.
At this stage of the metagame, I'd argue Urshifu-RS would be a much healthier presence, since its significantly slower, its typing has more key weaknesses (namely to Future Sight and Thunderclap) and it would provide some much needed counterplay to Kingambit and Gliscor (which are two other Pokemon players are complaining about). Furthermore, it has more 4MSS due to possessing weaker coverage than Woger. However, we have never really remotely entertained the possibility of dropping Shifu-RS back down (perhaps rightfully so, I am still biased against the way the QB Happened), so I see little merit in keeping Woger.