Unpopular opinions

So, Rock Smash rocks exist in the game for 2 reasons. They're not puzzles or anything else, Rock Smash is just a check for "Have you progressed far enough in the game to get past this point" and "Have you devoted 1/24 moveslots to Rock Smash"*. And the latter effect is designed to make your team worse. You're exploring with a bit of a handicap, which especially in deep dungeons where you could theoretically run low on HP/PP/items/etc, matters a lot.

BDSP doesn't do that. Which, fine, that's a choice. But that means that MOST of the smashable rocks in the original game are now useless. If you're in an area past when Rock Smash unlocks, you clearly have the move, so why are they making you check again? With the exception of literally inside Oreburgh Gate, every single Rock Smash rock in BDSP serves no purpose.

*Which is my least-favorite field move effect. Cut, Waterfall, Rock Smash, all are basically the same field effect and are all terrible.
Rock Smash and Cut have always been the worst field moves by a mile. Cut is thoroughly useless beyond being a check no matter how you slice it. :psysly:


The problem is simple. As moves, they're pretty much garbage, so you know you're essentially burning a moveslot, or worse, a team slot on route-clearing. Neither is desirable. BDSP limits it to the field moves, but that makes the bigger issue stand out a bit more.

Take a look at this Cut puzzle
trickhouse1.png


So, which tree should you cut? The answer is that it doesn't matter. As long as you have Cut, you can just unga bunga through it.

There are no downsides to removing these obstacles.

That's why Cut is inherently a bad field move. It has no puzzle value whatsoever. With Rock Smash, you can get a bit more creative with environmental puzzles, even though the field effect itself is as plain as Cut's. There is never a reason to think when encountering a Cut tree. Just chop it and move on.

Some field effects have either exploration or puzzle value, but Cut has neither. It's a minor speed bump once the ability to dispatch trees is acquired and little more than a roadblock before that.

And that's why I said Pokémon's map designs were never anything special to begin with. Yet, they've gotten significantly worse after the removal of the few moves that worked as legit roadblocks to exploration.

SV kind of attempts to remedy this, but honestly, there isn't a lot locked behind its roadblocks to make it worth mentioning. Thanks, "open" world.
 
I feel like the obvious solution to all this which Game Freak will probably get around to eventually is free on-demand usage for certain Pokemon to complete certain overworld tasks. So, for example, you can actually fly on the back of designated flying Pokemon like Salamence and Dragonite, or push big boulders with designated "strong" Pokemon like Conkeldurr and Ursaring, all cases like this complete with unique animations for each Pokemon. Like what LGPE did, but more sophisticated and spread to a whole 400-something size main game roster. I'm all but certain that this is a medium-term goal for the company (the Synchro Machine in ID even feels like laying the groundwork for such a thing), it's just a matter of how much longer until the conditions are right to pull it off. The sooner the problems with this series' production pipeline are resolved, the better.
 
*Which is my least-favorite field move effect. Cut, Waterfall, Rock Smash, all are basically the same field effect and are all terrible.
Waterfall is slightly better imo because waterfalls are integrated more naturally into the Pokemon overworld and the idea of scaling one is conceptually much cooler than cutting down a tree, but overall I totally agree.

What's crazy is that it doesn't take much for an HM to not just feel like another Cut reskin. Strength's primary use case is to push a single boulder out of the way to open a path, but the few puzzles you get per game really help make it more interesting. I feel like it'd be super easy to do the same for Cut and Rock Smash
 
it is very true that half of our HMs are variations on the cut theme (cut, rock-flavoured cut in rock smash, water-flavoured cut in waterfall AND whirlpool, rock climb before LA was basically waterfall on earth). i get that multiple road blocks are useful in the sense of "you can get past A now, but not past B yet", but more context-based roadblocks (mons on the field, events, even badge checls if they don't look as contrived as the trial checkpoints in alola work).

to me, the field moves that should be HMs are:

- fly. it doesn't need to exist as strictly a field move, but the convenience of going back to visited places quick needs to exist for our collective sanity.
- just one of cut or rock smash. probably the latter, you can put rocks just about anywhere.
- one of flash or defog. they really got afraid of that effect as generations went by but it was a fairly effective one imo. i am NOT wasting my time meticulously following the map of the cave online just to not use the HM, and i don't think i am in the minority on that.
- surf. obviously.
- a way to explore the sky and places only accessible by air. i think the way dive works is very good, but they chose the medium with the least roadblocking opportunity - water - for it. even dig as an HM would have more potential than dive, but a sky version would patch a lack of very basic trait of rpg map design - keeping things above our heads until We Are Ready. it could also just be modern rock climbing, but i am not as much of a fan.
- strength. boulder puzzles can be basic but that's more on the games being geared towards kids than the mechanic itself being bad.
- dowsing machine effect. it is in most games to find items, but you could very easily hide progress triggers behind it, too (requiring the use of the move, of course). it's different from cut variants because the trigger can be separated from the path it's unblocking. it could very easily be a psychic move in battle, if having them usable in battle is the choice.

and here you go, this is at least seven HMs already without even exploring brand new ideas.
 
Waterfall is slightly better imo because waterfalls are integrated more naturally into the Pokemon overworld and the idea of scaling one is conceptually much cooler than cutting down a tree, but overall I totally agree.

What's crazy is that it doesn't take much for an HM to not just feel like another Cut reskin. Strength's primary use case is to push a single boulder out of the way to open a path, but the few puzzles you get per game really help make it more interesting. I feel like it'd be super easy to do the same for Cut and Rock Smash
I'm not getting the hate on Waterfall, even though it's been historically unimpressive.

Waterfall and Rock Climb allow for layered exploration, which not only makes the world more interesting but also serves multiple purposes in map design.
Oops, brain fart. I meant Whirlpool, the HM move that is so bad it only ever appeared in a single Region.

Waterfall I dislike, but only because they have ignored the best option with it. Let players go down Waterfalls without the move, and climb them with the move. Then you can use Waterfalls like Ledges in the early game, and the player can go up/over them later in the game. That would make for all sorts of fun/interesting map design decisions. I'd also make Rock Climb work the same way with actual ledges. It's not a lot, but Cobalt Empoleon is right, it doesn't take much to make them feel like an interesting part of the game.
 
I'm pretty sure it used to work like this.
You would still need to have a party member who knew the move to go down waterfalls, the game simply wouldn't ask you to use the move like it would while going up one. Not needing to have a member with the move on hand to go down though is such a simple change/improvement it's surprising it wasn't done beforehand.

I think Rock Smash and Cut serve their purpose as early game roadblock removers fine. Cut is unbelievably basic but I can't think of any way to meaningfully change it to make it more interesting and at the very least its mandatory uses in games are limited to a handful of times almost immediately after you get the move (RBY for instance only needs you to use the move four times to finish the game, the rest of its uses are optional, and this is the highest amount of mandatory uses I can remember off the top of my head).

Rock Smash on the other hand gets used way too much way too late into the game and for the most part doesn't have any secondary function to make it more than an annoyance. Which is weird because I remember in HGSS you could sometimes get items or encounter some mons after using the move, not the best secondary function, but better than nothing and it's weird that it doesn't show up elsewhere (from what I can remember).
 
I think Rock Smash and Cut serve their purpose as early game roadblock removers fine. Cut is unbelievably basic but I can't think of any way to meaningfully change it to make it more interesting and at the very least its mandatory uses in games are limited to a handful of times almost immediately after you get the move (RBY for instance only needs you to use the move four times to finish the game, the rest of its uses are optional, and this is the highest amount of mandatory uses I can remember off the top of my head).

Rock Smash on the other hand gets used way too much way too late into the game and for the most part doesn't have any secondary function to make it more than an annoyance. Which is weird because I remember in HGSS you could sometimes get items or encounter some mons after using the move, not the best secondary function, but better than nothing and it's weird that it doesn't show up elsewhere (from what I can remember).
Cut requires somewhat grassy/forest-like biomes to fit. The later in the game, the more scarce those get. That's how it usually goes.

You know what doesn't get more scarce? Caves, mountains, and other rocky biomes. That's why Rock Smash keeps popping up. Granted, it's more of an issue in places like RSE Victory Road, but it still makes sense thematically.

But again, the biggest problem is what they don't do with that move, because smashing the rock is always the correct choice.

You would still need to have a party member who knew the move to go down waterfalls, the game simply wouldn't ask you to use the move like it would while going up one. Not needing to have a member with the move on hand to go down though is such a simple change/improvement it's surprising it wasn't done beforehand.
That was probably some kind of failsafe so people wouldn't get stuck.
Yet another thing better map design could've solved, but alas.

This franchise really should take a bunch of leaves from Zelda's book. Though to be honest, Zelda has been getting significantly worse on that front lately...
 
I think Gen 1 had a decent idea behind it with its original 5 HMs, with them being 5 different moves all distinct from one another both in their use in battle and in terms of their field effects. The original 5 HMs were Cut, Fly, Surf, Strength, and Flash, and that was it, and you would actually use each one to get through different points of the game.

Cut was the only "early roadblock remover" and you got it as a reward for completing the SS Anne, and you needed it to get to Vermilion Gym and to unlock Route 9 and the Rock Tunnel (the other way around is blocked by a Snorlax). Flash was the next one you'd get and it would be a means to navigate the Rock Tunnel by lighting it up, which I imagine was pretty cool in the context of the time, even though I only ever played Gen 1 retroactively on 3DS VC. Fly was an HM that served as the quick-travel move, that you could use to fast-travel to any city at any time, easing world navigation. Surf and Strength were the last two you'd get, and Surf was usable as a field move after Koga to travel on water routes, which the game had a few of, and unlocking a few dungeons like Seafoam Islands and the Power Plant in doing so. Strength had its uses in solving boulder puzzles in certain dungeons. And it seems these uses stayed consistent throughout the games.

HMs as field effects were mixed in nicely with items like the Silph Scope, Poke Flute, and Bicycle. The former two getting rid of certain roadblocks (the ghosts and Snorlax), and the latter being a means to move faster on land.

What really kinda sucks is that they didn't really expand upon it in more interesting ways since as the technology advanced and they were capable of doing more. They largely just added more HM moves that had varying degrees of usability, with some being redundant just for different types of landscapes: Rock Smash is basically cut except to remove rocks in caves and Waterfall+Rock Climb being nearly identical as well, even if that was a cool field effect for them to climb up places to higher ground, which I think was nice. Whirpool and Defog were really only useful in one or two settings in their respective games while not being very good moves in battle.

There's generally been a lot of stagnation and little growth there in that regard.

I think the coolest move they introduced since was Dive, in the Hoenn games and even in Unova being able to go underwater in water routes and discover all new things underwater, including different Pokemon, was really cool in Hoenn.

I think the recent games had interesting ways to incorporate field travel, I like the Raidons for instance, but I don't think they or PLA or Alola really improve upon the original concept in a significant way. Galar though was the worst case: no field effects to have whatsoever outside of the waterbike to cross water. That made Galar very uninteresting to travel and explore when it came down to it. Like at least in previous games, like in Sinnoh, Unova, Kalos, and Alola, HMs/Ride Pager field moves could be used as you slowly unlocked them to revisit past places and find new things you didn't beforehand and reward exploration in doing so. Galar had practically none of that.

Just some of my two cents on the matter.
 
IMO what I would want in terms of HMs is similar to BDSP, except that it has to be your Pokémon. You’d get something like the HM App, with the various Gym Leaders in playing it with the various moves as you beat them, and then you have to register a compatible Pokémon you currently have to use the move - it could be one of your battlers or just a Pokémon you caught and then shoved into the PC, no need to add it to your party. I feel this would best strengthen the “adventure with your Pokémon” vibe without handicapping your team, either with subpar moves or having to lug an otherwise-useless HM user around.
 
I see both sides of the argument, though imo I do think stories does it best with each monstie just being able to do certain tasks because of its species. there its more strategical because most monsties only learn 1 skill, sometimes 2, so you need to figure out a balance for exploration and battles. dromes are pretty bad but they're the only monsties that can jump across gaps, so you can't release all of your dromes. Because of this, I usually play with two teams: an exploration team with the most varied skills possible and a battle team, meant to take on bosses and let me progress.

something like this with pokemon would be pretty fun: give every pokemon one or two hm-like skills, with stuff like cut/rock smash not needing badges since theyre always super early game anyway but stuff like surf or fly needing "equipment" you get after certain badges that let you go around with your pokemon.
While monhun stories can do unique animations because theres only around 100 monsters and only 80 are monsties, aka the ones that need extra polish for being party members and such, you can reuse most animations for fly, swim/dive/waterfall (just the same animation in different rotations), cut and rocksmash. All you'd have to do then is climbing and maybe strength

Id love unique animations but its hard to compare monhun stories to it when 30% of the monsterpedia got this going on
1709237661898.png
 
Last edited:
I enjoy smaller, more focused Dexes like the original Unova dex (I really wish we could get more fresh starts before post-game) rather than big ones, specially the three Kalos ones. LA also had a nice number.

You could have chosen any monster/subspecies combo to make this point and you chose Khezu :psycry:

All my homies hate Khezu
Gigginox has always been better, change my mind.
 
I enjoy smaller, more focused Dexes like the original Unova dex (I really wish we could get more fresh starts before post-game) rather than big ones, specially the three Kalos ones. LA also had a nice number.
Yeah at this point in my life I think I've exhausted any desire to catch the same mons all over again for the thousandth time. Gimme 400+ and I'm good. I'm sure I'll have some gripes about some old favorites that didn't make the cut, but I can make due. Just make the new stuff interesting.

But I hated the Unova dex specifically because it seemed like at least half of it was just retreads of old Pokemon designs anyway. So many of the creatures in BW felt like they were just using gen 1/2 Pokemon as a template both thematically and functionally. So, I buy into the game being sold on "151 brand new Pokemon!" only for the actual experience to end up being "the same old stuff you already know, just barely cosmetically different." Just felt pointless in the end.
 
Pokémon Z-A is an interesting concept. I don't know enough about the game to be hyped for it yet, but I've been quite worried about where they could go with it. I've thought about this, and from what I know my worries stem from one particular thing that would be heavily prevented if this following desire becomes real:

I sincerely hope the Kalos trio don't get  any new formes or additional members of their group. I hope the game handles the trio in a story with them all just being the way they already are. This game is only taking place in Lumiose anyway so there's less of a chance Gamefreak would pull off anything extreme.

Why I feel this is complicated. Say what you want about the amount of presentation Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde had in the games, but I  strongly believe the way their formes were developed was perfect and the way they were portrayed in lore and/or gameplay suggests they were meant to stay as is by the time Gen 7 rolled around.

Let's start off with Zygarde:
Pokémon X and Y introduced Zygarde at just its 50% forme. It had dex entries stating it had a secret power to use sort of as a last resort. This "secret power" was later first revealed in the anime to be a forme emphasized as "Complete". It is when all the Zygarde cells needed to reach its ultimate forme have collected together.

In Pokémon Sun and Moon, you were tasked with a quest to build this Pokémon fully from scratch. You had to collect individual pieces of it from all across the region and combine them together to access every single forme of this Pokémon from beginning to end. We had to construct this thing all the way from scratch and see through every stage of this Pokemon for it, from 0 to 100%. Not just in Sun and Moon either, but now in Pokemon GO and emphasized by Pokemon Masters EX. It would be incredibly frustrating to discover there was some secret 75% forme it could access midway through when we had to explore the development of this Pokemon's formes from beginning to end across multiple Pokemon games.

Edit 1: Even the anime made this sort of development too.

To follow up on this, I'm re-iterating that 100% forme is also emphasized as complete. When all the pieces of Zygarde gather together. Only to be accessed in very rare circumstances as a final resort. It was also used as a reward for completing Zygarde's development all the way through in both Pokemon Sun/Moon and Pokemon GO. It would be incredibly disrespectful to every single one of those players who liked this and even disrespectful to Zygarde itself for there to be a higher forme than this. Especially all the sudden years after its complete forme was emphasized as complete. Not to mention, its complete forme was never even used in a story yet. There's no harm in the game focusing on Zygarde transforming into just Zygarde-Complete at highest.

Judging by the logo itself and how it's made, I'm in heavy belief that the "A" resembles Zygarde-Complete itself, as it looks passable as that letter and far from the letter Z overall. Zygarde-10% has a Z-like shape. Zygarde-50% makes the Z a lot more clear. Zygarde-100% abandons the Z entirely and becomes more humanoid, and almost like an "A" like shape. Not to mention the hyphen could indicate that whatever "Z" is would go into "A". "Z" was always portrayed as Zygarde-50%. It could easily be Zygarde going from 50% to 100%; from Z to A; from Z-A. The name itself most likely indicates that this game would mark the end of something and a new beginning (likely an era), but it could also be used to emphasize Zygarde itself, especially with how they formatted its logo.

Ok right here on this post, I looked into the logo and found a huge discovery.

718.png

Notice the head. Pay attention to its head.

718_f3.png

The head is pushed further down its body. The tip of its body is kinda like a new head, but sharper and pointier.
It also ends up with a tail that extends past the shape its body is trying to make. The tail is behind its legs. This is a given, but a very critical detail to note here.

If Pokémon tried to continue on its route to make its Kalos legendaries designed to resemble letters, the Zygarde-Complete forme looks more like it resembles "A" than it resembles "Z".

The face of Z is below the tip of its body and the tail extends past the shape it's trying to make.

The face of "Z" is below the tip of "A". The tail of "Z" extends past the "A".

show.png

You may now see the connection.

For Xerneas and Yveltal:
Xerneas and Yveltal are portrayed as eternal beings responsible for maintaining nature. They are from nature, they influence nature, and they maintain nature on their own. Xerneas and Yveltal have appeared as the physical formes they always were since the beginning and are frequently known to shift between formes already. Xerneas goes to sleep as a tree, then awakens as the way it is. It has a dormant form for storing energy, then an active form for using said energy to battle. It already has a dedicated appearance for battling and a dedicated appearance for retaining energy, so there's no new one needed. Yveltal's a similar case, with it becoming a cocoon while it's asleep but part of Yveltal's entire point entails it not storing energy, so it doesn't have a dormant form. I am against the idea of them getting some sort of mega forme or complete forme because Xerneas and Yveltal are actually already incarnations of said energy themselves. Mega Evolution energy already derives from them and they directly have the power to make Mega Stones a thing. Their powers to influence Mega Evolution are also expressed through Fairy Aura and Dark Aura respectively. Zygarde-Complete's dex entries also suggest that Xerneas and Yveltal in their regular formes are not much weaker than Zygarde-Complete itself. It would break the significance of Zygarde-Complete being above Xerneas or Yveltal if Xerneas and Yveltal got Mega Evolution, Primal Reversion, or Complete formes. Zygarde has a Complete Forme because unlike Xerneas or Yveltal, Zygarde is a bunch of smaller entities made up. It wouldn't make sense for Xerneas or Yveltal to get a Complete forme when they are one whole entity each and it wouldn't make sense to get a mega evolution or primal reversion when they are the very incarnates of nature's energy themselves.

Edit: One thing I forgot to note is that while Zygarde has a "Complete" forme, Xerneas and Yveltal don't. Zygarde's whole thing is that it's not one whole entity, but a bunch of tinier entities working together to form a shape of a creature in order to restore the ecosystem. Xerneas and Yveltal have always been one whole, complete entity.

These three getting new formes would break so much of what Pokémon has already established for them throughout media in ways far beyond Primal Kyogre/Groudon and Origin Palkia/Dialga. Especially since they aren't otherworldly entities from dimensions unsuitable for physical reality and aren't entities with known objects that never got utilized until their remake/premake.

A new Pokémon added to the group would also be immensely bizarre. There's no reason for something as significant as a major legendary to have not been recalled or featured in the games the rest were at all and no reason for Pokémon to start breaking past the cycle of 3. Shoehorning a 4th member in out of the blue would make the development of this group far more questionable than any group had ever been, with no telling of what makes it "complete".

Some people speculate the "A" could be Arceus. A being Arceus would be harmless but with the "A" following Zygarde's color scheme and being directly connected to the "Z" in both logo design and wording (the hyphen), it's almost clear that it's indicating a transformation from Z to A. "Z" was always portrayed as the 50% forme. The Zygarde-Complete forme never had much said about it but mysteriously strays from "Z" in shape entirely.


I might edit this later or make another post but that's all I can say for now. The formes for this legendary trio are already perfect as is, will always hold up for PvP battling (they already have more consistently than any other trio in the series bar weather trio), and giving them something new would most likely be a huge retcon that'd ruin any special feeling towards how they were portrayed before this game came out.
 
Last edited:
Pokémon Z-A is an interesting concept. I don't know enough about the game to be hyped for it yet, but I've been quite worried about where they could go with it. I've thought about this, and from what I know my worries stem from one particular thing that would be heavily prevented if this following desire becomes real:

I sincerely hope the Kalos trio don't get  any new formes or additional members of their group. I hope the game handles the trio in a story with them all just being the way they already are. This game is only taking place in Lumiose anyway so there's less of a chance Gamefreak would pull off anything extreme.

Why I feel this is complicated. Say what you want about the amount of presentation Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde had in the games, but I  strongly believe the way their formes were developed was perfect and the way they were portrayed in lore and/or gameplay suggests they were meant to stay as is by the time Gen 7 rolled around.

Let's start off with Zygarde:
Pokémon X and Y introduced Zygarde at just its 50% forme. It had dex entries stating it had a secret power to use sort of as a last resort. This "secret power" was later first revealed in the anime to be a forme emphasized as "Complete". It is when all the Zygarde cells needed to reach its ultimate forme have collected together.

In Pokémon Sun and Moon, you were tasked with a quest to build this Pokémon fully from scratch. You had to collect individual pieces of it from all across the region and combine them together to access every single forme of this Pokémon from beginning to end. We had to construct this thing all the way from scratch and see through every stage of this Pokemon for it, from 0 to 100%. Not just in Sun and Moon either, but now in Pokemon GO and emphasized by Pokemon Masters EX. It would be incredibly frustrating to discover there was some secret 75% forme it could access midway through when we had to explore the development of this Pokemon's formes from beginning to end across multiple Pokemon games.

Edit 1: Even the anime made this sort of development too.

To follow up on this, I'm re-iterating that 100% forme is also emphasized as complete. When all the pieces of Zygarde gather together. Only to be accessed in very rare circumstances as a final resort. It was also used as a reward for completing Zygarde's development all the way through in both Pokemon Sun/Moon and Pokemon GO. It would be incredibly disrespectful to every single one of those players who liked this and even disrespectful to Zygarde itself for there to be a higher forme than this. Especially all the sudden years after its complete forme was emphasized as complete. Not to mention, its complete forme was never even used in a story yet. There's no harm in the game focusing on Zygarde transforming into just Zygarde-Complete at highest.

Judging by the logo itself and how it's made, I'm in heavy belief that the "A" resembles Zygarde-Complete itself, as it looks passable as that letter and far from the letter Z overall. Zygarde-10% has a Z-like shape. Zygarde-50% makes the Z a lot more clear. Zygarde-100% abandons the Z entirely and becomes more humanoid, and almost like an "A" like shape. Not to mention the hyphen could indicate that whatever "Z" is would go into "A". "Z" was always portrayed as Zygarde-50%. It could easily be Zygarde going from 50% to 100%; from Z to A; from Z-A. The name itself most likely indicates that this game would mark the end of something and a new beginning (likely an era), but it could also be used to emphasize Zygarde itself, especially with how they formatted its logo.

Ok right here on this post, I looked into the logo and found a huge discovery.

View attachment 610540
Notice the head. Pay attention to its head.

View attachment 610541
The head is pushed further down its body. The tip of its body is kinda like a new head, but sharper and pointier.
It also ends up with a tail that extends past the shape its body is trying to make. The tail is behind its legs. This is a given, but a very critical detail to note here.

If Pokémon tried to continue on its route to make its Kalos legendaries designed to resemble letters, the Zygarde-Complete forme looks more like it resembles "A" than it resembles "Z".

The face of Z is below the tip of its body and the tail extends past the shape it's trying to make.

The face of "Z" is below the tip of "A". The tail of "Z" extends past the "A".

View attachment 610542
You may now see the connection.

For Xerneas and Yveltal:
Xerneas and Yveltal are portrayed as eternal beings responsible for maintaining nature. They are from nature, they influence nature, and they maintain nature on their own. Xerneas and Yveltal have appeared as the physical formes they always were since the beginning and are frequently known to shift between formes already. Xerneas goes to sleep as a tree, then awakens as the way it is. It has a dormant form for storing energy, then an active form for using said energy to battle. It already has a dedicated appearance for battling and a dedicated appearance for retaining energy, so there's no new one needed. Yveltal's a similar case, with it becoming a cocoon while it's asleep but part of Yveltal's entire point entails it not storing energy, so it doesn't have a dormant form. I am against the idea of them getting some sort of mega forme or complete forme because Xerneas and Yveltal are actually already incarnations of said energy themselves. Mega Evolution energy already derives from them and they directly have the power to make Mega Stones a thing. Their powers to influence Mega Evolution are also expressed through Fairy Aura and Dark Aura respectively. Zygarde-Complete's dex entries also suggest that Xerneas and Yveltal in their regular formes are not much weaker than Zygarde-Complete itself. It would break the significance of Zygarde-Complete being above Xerneas or Yveltal if Xerneas and Yveltal got Mega Evolution, Primal Reversion, or Complete formes. Zygarde has a Complete Forme because unlike Xerneas or Yveltal, Zygarde is a bunch of smaller entities made up. It wouldn't make sense for Xerneas or Yveltal to get a Complete forme when they are one whole entity each and it wouldn't make sense to get a mega evolution or primal reversion when they are the very incarnates of nature's energy themselves.

These three getting new formes would break so much of what Pokémon has already established for them throughout media in ways far beyond Primal Kyogre/Groudon and Origin Palkia/Dialga. Especially since they aren't otherworldly entities from dimensions unsuitable for physical reality and aren't entities with known objects that never got utilized until their remake/premake.

A new Pokémon added to the group would also be immensely bizarre. There's no reason for something as significant as a major legendary to have not been recalled or featured in the games the rest were at all and no reason for Pokémon to start breaking past the cycle of 3. Shoehorning a 4th member in out of the blue would make the development of this group far more questionable than any group had ever been, with no telling of what makes it "complete".

Some people speculate the "A" could be Arceus. A being Arceus would be harmless but with the "A" following Zygarde's color scheme and being directly connected to the "Z" in both logo design and wording (the hyphen), it's almost clear that it's indicating a transformation from Z to A. "Z" was always portrayed as the 50% forme. The Zygarde-Complete forme never had much said about it but mysteriously strays from "Z" in shape entirely.


I might edit this later or make another post but that's all I can say for now. The formes for this legendary trio are already perfect as is, will always hold up for PvP battling (they already have more consistently than any other trio in the series bar weather trio), and giving them something new would most likely be a huge retcon that'd ruin any special feeling towards how they were portrayed before this game came out.
I do understand your concern, and a new member of the Aura trio is highly unlikely, but I think it is important to know the context of the new forms.

Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon were simply how Kyogre and Groudon were in the past; super powerful ancient beasts who are unable to control their power, forcing Rayquaza to take a drastic power boost in Mega Rayquaza to stop them. Ever since, they were powered down, still a force to reckon with, but nowhere as dangerous as they were. Likewise, Rayquaza can only Mega Evolve if it ate a meteor that is full of Infinite Energy, hence why it wasn’t to Mega Evolve in SwSh or SV despite being able to learn Dragon Ascent.

Arceus is the creator of the Pokémon universe, and also the creator of Dialga, Palkia and Giratina. Giratina already has it‘s own Origin form, but does not have any ring that Arceus have, so that form put emphasis on how much it is an outcast despite being part of a trio. Dialga and Palkia’s respective Origin form, on the other hand, are built to look more to like Arceus while looking much more eldritch than they already are, and have a ring surrounding them. These details are why Dialga and Palkia’s Origin form are called like this, as those forms, alongside Giratina, used to be like that before descending into their Alter form without their respective Core.

Execution matters as much as the concept, if not more, and if handled well, it can expand on a trio. That said, I do agree that the Aura trio don’t need a major expansion. Most I can think is that Xerneas and Yveltal get a Mega-esque form, but not without severe drawbacks due to the Infinite Energy messing up with life (Xerneas) or is being used to cheat with death (Yveltal), as well as giving another reason for Zygarde to intervene.
 
Last edited:
I mean I don't think they need them, but Dialga and Palkia didn't need Origin formes either. I just think it's something likely. If they actually add lore to them or connect them more with Zygarde who is incredibly barebones, that would already justify them more. There was barely anything about them in the previous Kalos games, we don't even have their proper habitats. I don't see why we should assume anything new about them would be contradictory by nature even if it's unnecesary. It could even explain how they were able to power up the Ultimate Weapon without being megas. Context is impotant.

Most cover legendaries have form/fusions except the Tower Duo and the XY one and I completely expect that to change.
 
Last edited:
Aside from emerald being a shitty and childish child, he has a good history and good character development and the arc is really good.

it started from a child just caring about winning and winning til he met bill , at his battles, he didn’t realize he was cheering his pokemon up for motivation, and they even started to fight to see who loves emerald more, the way how the frontier brains despised him but later admired him because of his courage and bravery. He realized of his mistakes and changed everything.

and somewhat his wish came true to get friends yeah that’s cool.

emerald is a good arc change my mind
 
my most radical unpopular opinion when it comes to mainline pokemon games is the normalization of using NFEs.

It came to me when I was playing leafgreen a couple years ago, and tried out the bellsprout line for the first time. Around the 4th gym, I had acquired a leaf stone and was gonna evolve Taco, my Weepinbell. It had become the unofficial mascot of the team, and it was a bittersweet moment until it hit me

Why should I evolve weepinbell if I like it better than victreebel? Is the game so hard as to necessitate the extra stat buff? And so i sold my leaf stone, and carried on with my beloved Taco. While the rest of my team evolved, my favorite doofus remained as goofy as ever. View attachment 590409

And when the time came I rolled up vs champion SHID and he sent out his ace, the level 63 Blastoise, Taco was waiting. And Taco feasted. It's been years and I still cherish it. I can comfortably say that him being a Weepinbell made it much more memorable.

I bring this up because I'm playing Firered again and have a new favorite party member.View attachment 590410

Babby, destroyer of worlds. She's had the chance to evolve four times, and she'll have many more as the journey goes. Does not matter. Babby is babby. Pressing b a bunch of times is a small price to pay for keeping her story intact. And I cannot wait for her eventual rise to become champion.

Did we learn nothing from Ash and Pikachu? Are we so enslaved to numbers and optimization that we are hard coded to deny the chance for a better story? Pokemon is a game fueled by narrative. BREAK THE CHAINS OF EVOLUTION!



TLDR; keep your scrimblos scrimbly and enjoy your playthrough to the fullest

Just wanted to give an update that BABBY finally became a champion. Eyeing up a psyduck for next time
60FE4925-73FE-4DEA-88E9-3C13EAE562E1.jpeg
 
Pokemon is beat as the King of Rereleases and bullshit anti-consumer practices for JRPGs by Atlus.

Persona 5: DLC
Persona 5 Royal: full price rerelease + DLC
SMT Nocturne HD: shitty remaster with awful audio. high price. day 1 DLC.
SMT 5: DLC
Soul Hackers 2: $70 with day 1 DLC (story content too!!!)
Persona 5 Tactica: day 1 DLC
Persona 3 Reload: $70, DLC for old content lmaooo
SMT 5 Vengeance: $60 full price rerelease + DLC + if you want DLC included pay $70 LMAOOOO

Even Pokemon has made games like Legends Arceus but I cannot think of a recent Atlus title that is not this scummy
 
Back
Top