Why is Arceus being brought up here? It didn't even have DLC.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Ok, so here's my layman's understanding of P3 Reload: From what I've read and heard Persona 3 was semi-infamous for having a bunch of different versions, each with their own bits and bobs of content the others didn't have. The entire reason people wanted a remake at all was to take all these versions and consolidate them together into one definitive Persona 3 experience. Not only did Reload fail to do this at launch, not ONLY did it make the epilogue story "The Answer" paid DLC, but even after the DLC it is STILL missing features people wanted, most notably the female protagonist one of the aforementioned many versions added.
If I am correct on this and am not missing key context then I never want to hear anyone complain about the Battle Frontier ever again
So they caved and made The Answer DLC, huh? 
Still wild that they cut the female protag, and I'm pretty sure the PC port has Denuvo. (For those unaware, Denuvo is an anti-piracy software infamous for tanking perfomance by around 10% or more)
Atlus has been about as hated as EA for a reason.
Still wild that they cut the female protag, and I'm pretty sure the PC port has Denuvo. (For those unaware, Denuvo is an anti-piracy software infamous for tanking perfomance by around 10% or more)
Atlus has been about as hated as EA for a reason.
Why can't I complain about both as someone who doesn't play Persona, or a friend complain who plays both and thinks both practices suck even if one sucks more?
I didn't reply to this bc I was lazy but, Reading Comprehension: I was saying even Pokemon Company sometimes makes games that aren't that greedy, and LA was an example.
imagine paying for atlus products lol just pirate that shit. persona 3 reload is annoying rn but you might as well pirate the old ones anyway they look better. and also play persona 2 innocent sin and eternal punishment.
unpopular opinion but only for a specific niche ig but i dont really get the usum hate from alola fans. yeah the story is less compact but theres some weird vitriol about it being disrespectful to abuse victims and like. idk man they probably just wanted to explore a world where lusamine was less of an ass that could be redeemed. I dont think its a statement that all abusive parents deserve a second chance or whatever. also the story isnt even that bad its completely serviceable for the franchise
unpopular opinion but only for a specific niche ig but i dont really get the usum hate from alola fans. yeah the story is less compact but theres some weird vitriol about it being disrespectful to abuse victims and like. idk man they probably just wanted to explore a world where lusamine was less of an ass that could be redeemed. I dont think its a statement that all abusive parents deserve a second chance or whatever. also the story isnt even that bad its completely serviceable for the franchise
You can't.
All of their recent games have DRM and no one is cracking them. Persona 3 Reload is not cracked. People are emulating the Switch version of Persona 5 Royal on PC. SMT 5 Vengeance will definitely have DRM. Etc.
Thats why u play original persona 3 and persona 2 and the og SMTs instead. also because theyre good games unlike the new ones LOL
maybe unpopular, but i don't get complaining BDSP didn't have a battle frontier when that concept was DEAD after gen 4. it's not in gen 5, it's not in gen 6 (including ORAS), it's not in gen 7. of all the platinum things to return, it was the least realistic to expect. 
I have the opposite perspective: a lack of BDSP frontier would be fine if there was another modern Frontier instead. However, with everything being left behind, a remake held the best chances to get something of the sort. Which, to be fair, the BDSP Tower is still better than what SV offered.maybe unpopular, but i don't get complaining BDSP didn't have a battle frontier when that concept was DEAD after gen 4. it's not in gen 5, it's not in gen 6 (including ORAS), it's not in gen 7. of all the platinum things to return, it was the least realistic to expect.
i get this perspective, but considering the reason they didn't add it to ORAS to begin with (masuda felt the concept was very unpopular), i think it just wasn't going to return in any fashion. i don't think this is on ilca being "too faithful" as many fans have put it, it's on gamefreak themselves.
It would be one thing to still expect a proper Frontier after ORAS, but I don't blame anyone for wanting a remake to hit at least the same marks set by a ~15 year old iteration of the exact same games.maybe unpopular, but i don't get complaining BDSP didn't have a battle frontier when that concept was DEAD after gen 4. it's not in gen 5, it's not in gen 6 (including ORAS), it's not in gen 7. of all the platinum things to return, it was the least realistic to expect.
For my money, the BDSP Tower was Good Enough.
If the Frontier ever returns, it will be as DLC.maybe unpopular, but i don't get complaining BDSP didn't have a battle frontier when that concept was DEAD after gen 4. it's not in gen 5, it's not in gen 6 (including ORAS), it's not in gen 7. of all the platinum things to return, it was the least realistic to expect.
I said it back when BDSP was announced, historically, it's been on 3rd versions because of the extra dev time. The only exception was in HGSS, where they straight up just ported Plat's and called it a day.
So basically, I don't really see this fanbase actually putting their money where their mouth is and forking over some cash to get washed at the Frontier again.
BDSP's Tower at least sounds reasonably good enough from what I hear tho.
There were a lot of reasons to complain about that game, but the Frontier was definitely not one of them.
So, I'm not entirely sure where to put this, but this thread has evolved into a sort of "anything goes general discussion thread" of the subforum over the years. I guess that's just a way to say that we like to nitpick on everything about this franchise, to the point where "this surely must be unpopular, but I think that ..." is one of the most common sentiments a Pokémon fan can have.
So, anyway, the secondary types of fully evolved starter Pokémon. Recently, it's something I've given almost as much consideration as three-stage evolutions or the unfair treatment of Ice-types. I think it's fair to say that we're seeing a bit of repetition in this respect. After Gen IV, which is 18 years ago this year, we've really just seen five of the 15 possible types added to starter Pokémon as secondary typings (OK, if you want to be overly technical, it's 8 out of 18, because the game treats mono-type Pokémon as dual-type Pokémon where the primary and secondary types are the same). But recently, it's been a cavalcade of repetition between Fighting, Dark, Ghost, Psychic, and Fairy, with the occasional starter without a secondary type at all.
One explanation is that Game Freak consider these types "extra cool" and want to use them to give the starters a little bit of extra marketability. But I think a secondary factor also plays in: they want to preserve a rock-paper-scissors relationship between the fully evolved starters. In addition to the usual Fire-Water-Grass triangle, these five types create many possible combinations for other triangles. Fighting-Dark-Ghost is the most obvious one (Hisui, Gen IX), but there have been variants: Fighting-Dark-Psychic (Gen VI), and Ghost-Dark-Fairy (Gen VII). And of course the ever-so-popular nothing-nothing-Fighting of Gen V. Or nothing-nothing-nothing, as was the case in Gen VIII.
The problem is that there are only so many ways to apply five types to three Pokémon, while preserving a triangle, without making a lot of repeats. We've already seen Fire/Ghost used twice in a row, Fighting and Dark have been paired with every type already, Psychic can't fit in a triangle with both Fighting and Ghost or Dark and Ghost, nor can Fairy work with both Dark and Fighting. And if you use Ghost at all, you have to put Dark in there to give it a disadvantage, which locks the third member to Fighting or Fairy so a triangle can be completed.
But wait, why are they sticking to only those five types, again? That, I think is because, not only are those five types extra cool and work easily in triangles, but they have no type chart interactions with Grass, Fire, or Water. They don't interrupt the "sacred balance" of the original rock-paper-scissors typing triangle no matter how you apply them. There's the little exception that Fire resists Fairy, but it's a minor interaction while the other types have none at all (it does mean that whichever 'mon in the secondary triangle is supposed to have an advantage over the secondary type of the Fire starter can't be Fairy, though).
There are some unused combinations that remain, so that Game Freak can continue to use these five types without repeating types too many times. We're only one step away from having used Fire/Ghost as many times as Fire/Fighting. Water/Ghost and Fire/Fairy are still unused combinations for starter Pokémon, although it locks the third type to repeat Meowscarada's Grass/Dark. But what if I told you there was another way?
That's the key part I think I can pass for "Unpopular" enough to be relevant in this thread: the secondary starter type triangle can be balanced in neutrality. Instead of the starters having relative advantages over each other, outside the Fire/Water/Grass triangle, they can be neutral. While preserving Fire/Water/Grass. It's just a bit difficult. Because there's a reason why these five types are Game Freak's go-to types for starters. They don't mess with the FWG triangle, and few other types do that. Either, they give the starters undue resistance/weaknesses to each other's types, or make the triangle unbalanced so that one is clearly "the strong one", or worse, "the weak one".
But I think there are options still. Flying/Normal/Psychic, for instance. The only caveat is that the Grass starter would have to get the Flying type (flying creates an advantage vs. Grass, but neutrality towards the two other). That way, neither starter has relative advantages or disadvantages, and the standard Fire-Water-Grass triangle is preserved. Flying/Normal/Dark works equally well. Electric/Poison/Dark could work too, provided it's Water/Electric and Grass/Poison, so the offensive advantage of the secondary types vs. the primary aren't affecting the balance of the type traingle. Instead of Fire/Dark, Fire/Normal also works in that scenario.
Sadly, there are few types that fit neatly into the Fire-Water-Grass triangle like that. It works if they interact non-neutrally with one of the types, because then it can just be combined with the starter of that type, but far too many types interact with multiple starter types, or with the other possible combinations. Take for instance Ghost and Electric. No interactions with FWG (if the Electric-type is the Water starter), but there's no neutrality to be had with the remaining types (not even the go-to type for neutrality, Normal).
I suspect there are more combinations than I can think up at half past one in the morning on a Sunday, though. Are any of Smogon's many proficient scripters up for the job of discovering neutral starter type triangles, where the only relative advantages and disadvantages between the starters are those given by the primary types of Grass, Fire, and Water?
So, anyway, the secondary types of fully evolved starter Pokémon. Recently, it's something I've given almost as much consideration as three-stage evolutions or the unfair treatment of Ice-types. I think it's fair to say that we're seeing a bit of repetition in this respect. After Gen IV, which is 18 years ago this year, we've really just seen five of the 15 possible types added to starter Pokémon as secondary typings (OK, if you want to be overly technical, it's 8 out of 18, because the game treats mono-type Pokémon as dual-type Pokémon where the primary and secondary types are the same). But recently, it's been a cavalcade of repetition between Fighting, Dark, Ghost, Psychic, and Fairy, with the occasional starter without a secondary type at all.
One explanation is that Game Freak consider these types "extra cool" and want to use them to give the starters a little bit of extra marketability. But I think a secondary factor also plays in: they want to preserve a rock-paper-scissors relationship between the fully evolved starters. In addition to the usual Fire-Water-Grass triangle, these five types create many possible combinations for other triangles. Fighting-Dark-Ghost is the most obvious one (Hisui, Gen IX), but there have been variants: Fighting-Dark-Psychic (Gen VI), and Ghost-Dark-Fairy (Gen VII). And of course the ever-so-popular nothing-nothing-Fighting of Gen V. Or nothing-nothing-nothing, as was the case in Gen VIII.
The problem is that there are only so many ways to apply five types to three Pokémon, while preserving a triangle, without making a lot of repeats. We've already seen Fire/Ghost used twice in a row, Fighting and Dark have been paired with every type already, Psychic can't fit in a triangle with both Fighting and Ghost or Dark and Ghost, nor can Fairy work with both Dark and Fighting. And if you use Ghost at all, you have to put Dark in there to give it a disadvantage, which locks the third member to Fighting or Fairy so a triangle can be completed.
But wait, why are they sticking to only those five types, again? That, I think is because, not only are those five types extra cool and work easily in triangles, but they have no type chart interactions with Grass, Fire, or Water. They don't interrupt the "sacred balance" of the original rock-paper-scissors typing triangle no matter how you apply them. There's the little exception that Fire resists Fairy, but it's a minor interaction while the other types have none at all (it does mean that whichever 'mon in the secondary triangle is supposed to have an advantage over the secondary type of the Fire starter can't be Fairy, though).
There are some unused combinations that remain, so that Game Freak can continue to use these five types without repeating types too many times. We're only one step away from having used Fire/Ghost as many times as Fire/Fighting. Water/Ghost and Fire/Fairy are still unused combinations for starter Pokémon, although it locks the third type to repeat Meowscarada's Grass/Dark. But what if I told you there was another way?
That's the key part I think I can pass for "Unpopular" enough to be relevant in this thread: the secondary starter type triangle can be balanced in neutrality. Instead of the starters having relative advantages over each other, outside the Fire/Water/Grass triangle, they can be neutral. While preserving Fire/Water/Grass. It's just a bit difficult. Because there's a reason why these five types are Game Freak's go-to types for starters. They don't mess with the FWG triangle, and few other types do that. Either, they give the starters undue resistance/weaknesses to each other's types, or make the triangle unbalanced so that one is clearly "the strong one", or worse, "the weak one".
But I think there are options still. Flying/Normal/Psychic, for instance. The only caveat is that the Grass starter would have to get the Flying type (flying creates an advantage vs. Grass, but neutrality towards the two other). That way, neither starter has relative advantages or disadvantages, and the standard Fire-Water-Grass triangle is preserved. Flying/Normal/Dark works equally well. Electric/Poison/Dark could work too, provided it's Water/Electric and Grass/Poison, so the offensive advantage of the secondary types vs. the primary aren't affecting the balance of the type traingle. Instead of Fire/Dark, Fire/Normal also works in that scenario.
Sadly, there are few types that fit neatly into the Fire-Water-Grass triangle like that. It works if they interact non-neutrally with one of the types, because then it can just be combined with the starter of that type, but far too many types interact with multiple starter types, or with the other possible combinations. Take for instance Ghost and Electric. No interactions with FWG (if the Electric-type is the Water starter), but there's no neutrality to be had with the remaining types (not even the go-to type for neutrality, Normal).
I suspect there are more combinations than I can think up at half past one in the morning on a Sunday, though. Are any of Smogon's many proficient scripters up for the job of discovering neutral starter type triangles, where the only relative advantages and disadvantages between the starters are those given by the primary types of Grass, Fire, and Water?
I don't think the reason for the limited variety in starter's secondary typings is out of a desire to stick to type advantage triangles, as every type besides Normal, Dragon, and arguably Ghost fits neatly into at least one (Grass/Ground/Poison, Ice/Ground/Rock, Electric/Water/Ground, Bug/Grass/Rock, Flying/Fighting/Rock, Fairy/Fighting/Steel all cover all the potential secondary types that haven't been used since Gen IV or at all in some cases, and there are others). Even Dragon and Normal can be implemented indirectly, for example Water/Normal, Grass/Fighting, Fire/Fairy or Grass/Dragon, Fire/Ice, Water/Rock. It's probably just the "cool" factor that explains why those types are chosen over and over.
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I've said it before, but Fire/Dragon, Water/Dragon, Grass/Dragon. Which would be badass.
For a similar option: FW, WG, GF, which would let them do the "opening battle teaches you how super-effective moves work" AND "Rival is a tough final fight" at once.
You can also double-down on the type triangle. Fire/Flying, Grass/Fighting, Water/Rock, which are near-perfect.
On that note, there's plenty of "Counter the type triangle" options, especially if you're not completely perfect, though I can't figure one out at the moment.
But that said, Psychic etc are easier. I think GF may be gunshy after how unbalanced type triangles were received in the past, and so decided to stick to the safe options. I personally don't think the starters need to be perfectly matched, but it definitely feels like they're not willing to risk imbalancing them at all.
Yeah the secondary type triangle the starters have these past gens have been getting super repetitive, they really need to shake up what types they’ve been using next Gen.
Personally I think they could lean into a doubly effective option, where the starter type triangle just goes in one direction and not two different directions, making one starter amazing against one but utterly wrecked by the other.
Like I’ve made my own ideas for starters and their types are Grass/Bug, Fire/Poison and Water/Psychic. It’s not perfect, the grass starter is the only one who’s secondary type is NVE against the one it’s weak to Instead of neutral but given how Ghost is only immune to Fighting this could still work fine.
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Bug hasn't been weak to Poison for over 20 years.
But Grass is weak against poison hence the example being fire/poison.
i think starters' secondary typing don't have to necessarily be new triangles because their original types do all the work towards in-game rival battles being harder. by the time the second type is reached you should have a team that can handle anything, too.
just make them whatever secondary typing or none - it only bothers me when only one or two of them have a secondary typing, because i feel better if it's all or none of them lol. otherwise, gamefreak should prioritise a good concept and giving them good stats/skillsets for the in-game. chimchar is the best sinnoh mon and it has very little to do with its starter matchups.
just make them whatever secondary typing or none - it only bothers me when only one or two of them have a secondary typing, because i feel better if it's all or none of them lol. otherwise, gamefreak should prioritise a good concept and giving them good stats/skillsets for the in-game. chimchar is the best sinnoh mon and it has very little to do with its starter matchups.
I thought that was a pretty popular opinion. Psychic and Fairy should be excluded from this narrative as they've only been used for Delphox and Primarina. The problem is that Fighting is a really common secondary type for starters evolution line since gen 3 (firefighters, their middle evolutions, Mega Blaziken etc) and they used Fighting/ Ghost/ Dark twice in a row for Hisui and Paldea.
Water/ Normal, Fire/ Ice and Grass/ Electric would mantain neutrality but the water starter wouldn't be able to hit the fire starter super-effectively with its secondary type.
As a tangent, there are few triads that have the same kind of relationship that the F/W/G do (the strong type hits super-effectively and resists the weak type at the same time), I could only find Poison/ Grass/ Ground; Rock/ Fire/ Steel and Rock/ Flying/ Fighting.