Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[pika pal]

Dugtrio has EQ why are we considering High Horsepower

Running into Grassy Terrain even if Rillaboom is off the field is a legitimate situation to consider, especially if the move is barely weaker.

That said, High Horsepower also makes contact which might be a much worse tradeoff for mons that have both in this Meta (albeit a lot of the Contact Punishers are immune to Ground and thus don't tap them anyway).

 

[RPGKing2000]

most people who are good at building stall would recognize that it would be better to throw clodsire on the team instead
can't say what balance uses but I think there's rarely a situation where spdef dozo is your best option

spdef dozo is good on balance if you've built around it as a win con since it cursing up and being spdef makes it almost unbreakable, I know Blim likes spdef dozo I've seen it in his videos

 

[Heatranator]

What's a lower tier mon that you don't think is going to rise that is actually great in this meta? (no garganacl's allowed)
Me personally, I think azumarill is still quite good in this meta, it can tank many hits and fire back with hard attacks.

 

[GummyRowlets]

What's a lower tier mon that you don't think is going to rise that is actually great in this meta? (no garganacl's allowed)
Me personally, I think azumarill is still quite good in this meta, it can tank many hits and fire back with hard attacks.

Hawlucha is insane with grassy terrain, def niche but works wells with encore and sd if you play smart

 

[MegaScizor32]

What's a lower tier mon that you don't think is going to rise that is actually great in this meta? (no garganacl's allowed)
Me personally, I think azumarill is still quite good in this meta, it can tank many hits and fire back with hard attacks.

I think , , and are decent in the meta although I dont see them rising.

 

[Heatranator]

I think , , and are decent in the meta although I dont see them rising.

Honestly, Deo-S could rise, its been doing quite great in SPL, and there have been innovations talked such as 104, + speed nature outrunning +1 gouging while still packing a punch. It's quite a good mon, so I think it definetely could rise.

 

[MegaScizor32]

Honestly, Deo-S could rise, its been doing quite great in SPL, and there have been innovations talked such as 104, + speed nature outrunning +1 gouging while still packing a punch. It's quite a good mon, so I think it definetely could rise.

There’s a slight chance it may rise. I think it might just miss the cutoff tho. I feel like its a good mon, as outspeeding the whole meta is always great. Lead hazard sets are decent and mixed wall breaker sets have almost no switch-ins. The problem with deoxys-speed is that it has no defensive utility. Psychic-only typing is terrible to go along with its already mediocre defensive stats. I still think its underrated despite this.

 

[Moyashi]

Honestly, Deo-S could rise, its been doing quite great in SPL, and there have been innovations talked such as 104, + speed nature outrunning +1 gouging while still packing a punch. It's quite a good mon, so I think it definetely could rise.

DeoS falling really is just "ladder gonna ladder" with its anomalies. It's not some autopilot mon that requires minimal to no thought so ladder doesn't like using it. It should rise, as should Garg, but I have some slight doubts just because I don't trust ladder all the time.

 

[Conflux123]

What's a lower tier mon that you don't think is going to rise that is actually great in this meta? (no garganacl's allowed)
Me personally, I think azumarill is still quite good in this meta, it can tank many hits and fire back with hard attacks.

I've tried out Belly Drum Azumarill on Screens, it still hits as hard as ever. I just think there's better options currently.

There’s a slight chance it may rise. I think it might just miss the cutoff tho. I feel like its a good mon, as outspeeding the whole meta is always great. Lead hazard sets are decent and mixed wall breaker sets have almost no switch-ins. The problem with deoxys-speed is that it has no defensive utility. Psychic-only typing is terrible to go along with its already mediocre defensive stats. I still think its underrated despite this.

I agree, although having no defensive utility like you said can make it hard to fit on teams, as well as the fact that I personally kind of hate life orb because of the recoil combined with entry hazard damage. It can wear down your breaker quickly

Hawlucha is insane with grassy terrain, def niche but works wells with encore and sd if you play smart

I nearly got swept by one once, I just barely avoided it by teraing my Kingambit (I was trying Tera flying) to chip them enough for my skarmory to KO them next turn. I got super lucky that game.

Someone was talking about using Dugtrio instead of Wugtrio lol you gotta scroll up

I wonder if it wouldn't be broken with arena trap on stall anymore. Stall would need more pivots and I don't know how it would still fit all the checks to the metagame if it put pivoting moves and Dugtrio.

 

[Heatranator]

I've tried out Belly Drum Azumarill on Screens, it still hits as hard as ever. I just think there's better options currently.

Assault vest azumarill is MUCH better. It can tank a lot of hits, even things such as raging bolt's thunderbolt doesn't have full odds to ohko and specs kyurem freeze dry never ko's (if its HDB, you can potentially live two freeze drys), and fire back big damage. Against anything that isn't a grass type (which can't switch into play rough), azumarill can soft check it.

 

[RaikouLover]

What's a lower tier mon that you don't think is going to rise that is actually great in this meta? (no garganacl's allowed)
Me personally, I think azumarill is still quite good in this meta, it can tank many hits and fire back with hard attacks.

Garganacl is toxic. It shouldn’t be allowed. To answer your question:

Join the movement. This mon slaps. Hard af to wall but watch out for Gouging Fire.

Importable

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

What's a lower tier mon that you don't think is going to rise that is actually great in this meta? (no garganacl's allowed)
Me personally, I think azumarill is still quite good in this meta, it can tank many hits and fire back with hard attacks.

i'm an iron hands believer till the day i die (tentatively scheduled for october 8, 2084). that mon hits too hard and lives too much to possibly be bad

 

[Heatranator]

Garganacl is toxic. It shouldn’t be allowed. To answer your question:

View attachment 619641
Join the movement. This mon slaps. Hard af to wall but watch out for Gouging Fire.

Importable

Bruh, garg doesn't learn toxic, idk what you on about.
I think the main issue with ceruledge is that there are better ghost or fire types in OU, its not a bad mon and I do want to experiment with it more, maybe with wisp on it to more reliably get weak armour procs, but when you have cinder, gouging, heatran and volc as fire type competition and dragapult and ghold as ghost type competition then it's going to be difficult to fit on a team.
Of course, it fills both roles of a ghost/fire type, but the other mons have something that makes them stand out even more.

 

[FayaWizard]

Bruh, garg doesn't learn toxic, idk what you on about.
I think the main issue with ceruledge is that there are better ghost or fire types in OU, its not a bad mon and I do want to experiment with it more, maybe with wisp on it to more reliably get weak armour procs, but when you have cinder, gouging, heatran and volc as fire type competition and dragapult and ghold as ghost type competition then it's going to be difficult to fit on a team.
Of course, it fills both roles of a ghost/fire type, but the other mons have something that makes them stand out even more.

Also has a really bad problem of relying on Sash to survive any hit, which is notoriously unreliable. When you've got threats like Weavile, Darkrai, Roaring Moon, Walking Wake, Great Tusk, Dragapult, Landorus-Therian, and a lot of powerful mons that can 2HKO/OHKO it with neutral attacks, Ceruledge really doesn't look that appealing.

 

[Zer0]

What's a lower tier mon that you don't think is going to rise that is actually great in this meta? (no garganacl's allowed)
Me personally, I think azumarill is still quite good in this meta, it can tank many hits and fire back with hard attacks.

this mans right here:

i really really appreciate Scizor in Gen9 OU so much, despite it not being too good into weather its really good into offensive and can check several Pokemon from

to

to

to

(lacking tera fire) to even

, i generally think its legit and p underrated honestly(also shoutout to sd sitrus variants of it)

 

[TheDuckChris]

My hot take is that is underrated and will eventually be OU relevant.
Pressure is pretty good against a lot of low pp moves and it has a great movepool for a defensive support pokemon with hazards, status, knock etc. can run a ton of different items as well

 

[Heatranator]

My hot take is that is underrated and will eventually be OU relevant.
Pressure is pretty good against a lot of low pp moves and it has a great movepool for a defensive support pokemon with hazards, status, knock etc. can run a ton of different items as well

Ehh, it is super weak to a lot of mons in the tier rn, and its defenses aren't as impressive due to that low hp stat. Combined with the fact it is passive, and its not super great. I did like using psycho boost on it to destroy tusk, and maybe a few innovations could make it better and less passive. My eye is on meteor beam, psychic noise, gravity and psych up, though something like gravity is more niche
In other news, tera fairy blast heatran absolutely can destroy some teams. Stall teams get trapped and taunted, while faster teams have to be careful of fire+ground+fairy coverage, which is devestating to most teams.

 

[Rekka's Backend]

i'm an iron hands believer till the day i die (tentatively scheduled for october 8, 2084). that mon hits too hard and lives too much to possibly be bad

shhh, don't tell them because I don't want them to realize something that can live 3 moonblasts to the fact without shaking is too good

 

[Conflux123]

Assault vest azumarill is MUCH better. It can tank a lot of hits, even things such as raging bolt's thunderbolt doesn't have full odds to ohko and specs kyurem freeze dry never ko's (if its HDB, you can potentially live two freeze drys), and fire back big damage. Against anything that isn't a grass type (which can't switch into play rough), azumarill can soft check it.

I tried it on HO bro. I just thought it would be cool. I will def try out AV though now that you mentioned it.

 

[Heatranator]

shhh, don't tell them because I don't want them to realize something that can live 3 moonblasts to the fact without shaking is too good

252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 128 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 362-428 (75.2 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Psychic Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 440-520 (85.9 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Mf is bulky. It can potentially live one of the strongest moves in the game that is boosted by tera.
I'm sorry, but I must spread the truth.

 

[Moyashi]

Ehh, it is super weak to a lot of mons in the tier rn, and its defenses aren't as impressive due to that low hp stat. Combined with the fact it is passive, and its not super great. I did like using psycho boost on it to destroy tusk, and maybe a few innovations could make it better and less passive. My eye is on meteor beam, psychic noise, gravity and psych up, though something like gravity is more niche
In other news, tera fairy blast heatran absolutely can destroy some teams. Stall teams get trapped and taunted, while faster teams have to be careful of fire+ground+fairy coverage, which is devestating to most teams.

No one tell anyone about Cosmic Power+Night Shade set up sets (it was real fun last gen in natdex and could 6-0 some teams that lacked stuff like Encore, Taunt or fast Toxic or regen duos). Probably not so great with the recovery nerf but who knows.

 

[Heatranator]

No one tell anyone about Cosmic Power+Night Shade set up sets (it was real fun last gen in natdex and could 6-0 some teams that lacked stuff like Encore, Taunt or fast Toxic or regen duos). Probably not so great with the recovery nerf but who knows.

Honestly, deo-s is much better at that. Since you outrun everything, you can easily get to +1, which only has a bit less bulk than deo-d at neutral. Thus, you can actually pp stall a lot more things and get up more boosts/subs.
I consider Deo-S to be one of the three pillars of pp stall teams that you have to use on every pp stall team, the other two being dd kyurem and id+amnesia registeel.
But don't tell anyone about that, okay?

 

[Dead by Daylight]

Honestly, deo-s is much better at that. Since you outrun everything, you can easily get to +1, which only has a bit less bulk than deo-d at neutral. Thus, you can actually pp stall a lot more things and get up more boosts/subs.
I consider Deo-S to be one of the three pillars of pp stall teams that you have to use on every pp stall team, the other two being dd kyurem and id+amnesia registeel.
But don't tell anyone about that, okay?

I don’t think 50/90/90 is anywhere near 50/150/150, chief. It’s still quite frail even at +1.

 

[Heatranator]

I don’t think 50/90/90 is anywhere near 50/150/150, chief. It’s still quite frail even at +1.

252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed: 145-172 (47.6 - 56.5%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-Speed: 144-169 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-Speed: 144-169 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-Defense: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-Defense: 130-154 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-Defense: 130-154 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO

Eh, it may not seem like it, but with protect+lefties, you can absolutely beat a lot of things. Something like headlong rush tusk can't actually beat you, since you can stall out that 8 pp easily.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed: 145-172 (47.6 - 56.5%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-Speed: 144-169 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-Speed: 144-169 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-Defense: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-Defense: 130-154 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-Defense: 130-154 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO

Eh, it may not seem like it, but with protect+lefties, you can absolutely beat a lot of things. Something like headlong rush tusk can't actually beat you, since you can stall out that 8 pp easily.

it's actually hilarious how bad deo-d is at its job. imagine being minmaxed for defense but outclassed as a defensive mon by a frailer version of yourself