I guess where I disagree on the story tone there is that USUM aren't light in and of themselves, but they feel a bit less dark from the previous games.Cool thoughts. I had forgotten about Mantine Surfing, the stickers and Pikachu Valley... it has really been too long since I last played the Alola games. Either way, I don't think these three things are enough to make US/UM feel less serious to me. The general tone of the game and the story always felt a lot darker and more serious than in S/M, notably Necrozma's role in the story, and the Rainbow Rocket episode. If anything, regular S/M are the games that feel like a Disney theme park ride to me!
In Sun and Moon the story ends on an abused child attacking her Mother with a Pokemon she raised (who was also abused by her.)Cool thoughts. I had forgotten about Mantine Surfing, the stickers and Pikachu Valley... it has really been too long since I last played the Alola games. Either way, I don't think these three things are enough to make US/UM feel less serious to me. The general tone of the game and the story always felt a lot darker and more serious than in S/M, notably Necrozma's role in the story, and the Rainbow Rocket episode. If anything, regular S/M are the games that feel like a Disney theme park ride to me!
I will say that Lusamine in USUM does still have work ahead of her and she's aware of it, but you only really notice it if you go out of your way to talk to her about it. To an extent, I think it's a slightly more interesting end point for her character than the end of SM (the last we see of Lusamine is effectively a hope spot to continue off the "when did you get so beautiful" line - her "recovered", all smiles and trying to join the party before collapsing vs the last we see of Lusamine in USUM if you dig around for it is a tired woman who is aware she's failed her children, her Foundation, her husband and to an extent herself but wants to do better), it just came at the cost of one of the better moments and Lillie's story climax being shuffled off screen (but not the lead up????).I guess where I disagree on the story tone there is that USUM aren't light in and of themselves, but they feel a bit less dark from the previous games.
My basis for this primarily pertains to the story climax, as S/M is smaller in scope but also feels more grounded in its subject matter. It's not about stopping an Apocalyptic event, just dealing with the fallout of a broken and abusive family life, without a lot of innuendo or obfuscation for younger players. Rainbow Rocket gets some "theme park" vibes to me given the whole premise is "here's a throwback to all the big villain bosses", even if contextually they are taken seriously, on a meta level there's a concession to having them there at all.
The resolution also sort of gets me. S/M Lillie and Lusamine start a path to healing, but things aren't "fixed" as soon as you beat the antagonist, with Lusamine still very sick (physically and possible mentally), Gladion's side of the issue not necessarily resolved, and Lillie not being able to stay with her friends or found family in an effort to help her Mom in spite of everything. US/UM by comparison has a conflict that can be and sort of IS resolved as soon as you defeat Ultra Necrozma, since the scars don't run emotionally deep, and even Rainbow Rocket, despite escalating the conflict, is very impersonal and disconnected from the main story one.
That's the main thing I think makes S/M stick out to people: The consequences don't end with the Crisis the way they do in most games (Gen 1-4 the teams kind of disband after you stop their big gambit, Gen 5 leaves N as a hanging thread which similarly made the character stick with players), which makes the S/M plot feel less idealized or like a "means to an end" to contextualize the gameplay journey, which I will say even about several gens I like such as Gens 3-4 and a lot of SV's main campaign paths.
I saw reposts of "roster" images from the 2023 Poll and I think Rika was the only Female character in the list (albeit I don't know most of the characters so grain of salt there)?Rika is already avaliable in the Trainer Lodge in Pokemon Masters despite being released so recently. They really do know their public.
(for context, she scored first for two consecutive years in a japanese pool about women's fictional crushes, which is even funnier since it's on January and SV coming just in November didn't stop her from beating a lot of dudes)
She also beat out a bunch of really notable men, yes. It's very funnyI saw reposts of "roster" images from the 2023 Poll and I think Rika was the only Female character in the list (albeit I don't know most of the characters so grain of salt there)?
She also beat out a bunch of really notable men, yes. It's very funny
I think Arven was also on those lists, which makes it funnier
I was hesitant about replying to this due to the borderline toxic remarks in your last paragraph here, but I felt that I had to just to get all of this out of my head.In Sun and Moon the story ends on an abused child attacking her Mother with a Pokemon she raised (who was also abused by her.)
Not a Pokemon battle, just straight up attacking her, only censored by her technically being a weird fusion. Then, she goes into a coma.
Sun and Moon is literally a game about child abuse while USUM takes it and turns it into any regular Pokemon plot like RSE/DPP
And Ultra Necrozma shit is literally basic "Protagonist saves the day" arc
What makes Sun and Moon unique is literally the fact that it is objectively the darkest Pokemon game in terms of story lol.
Rainbow Rocket has all the darkness of a fucking Pokemon Masters gacha game arc where the entire point is for the player to say "Oh my god, that's Character! Character is so cool!" It's basic fanservice, lol.
this is literally just a case of Pokemon fans having no media literacy/only responding to basic shonen stuff, and the fact that you said you didn't even remember most of the game elements I mentioned only adds to me thinking this
You have not explained how USUM's story are darker or more complex
Or why the conclusions for the characters are better
You wrote all of these paragraphs and I am honestly feeling like my post aged extremely well ngl
But I still think US/UM were darker and more complex. The main antagonist is a Pokémon who is basically threatening the whole world, which I think is much more serious than some family drama. That’s not to say darker is better (since it isn’t in this case), but that’s how I feel.
Related to this, we see that their view of Rainbow Rocket follows in the same suit. RR is a larger stakes story: multi-verse domination, hostile take overs.I also agree about Rainbow Rocket when it comes to quality. It was pretty average on the whole. However, I wasn’t overly fond of the post-game story in S/M either. It was basically just a way for them to allow the player to catch the UBs. Can’t say I prefer either story over the other, but I think Rainbow Rocket was considerably darker and more complex (for better and worse).
The fun thing is he's been Dan ("Danpei") internally in Gen 6 & Let's Go.The fact they gave the gym guide a proper name for once in SWSH was a nice touch, and now even when I go back to old games that character is called Dan in my mind because of that
The fact they gave the gym guide a proper name for once in SWSH was a nice touch, and now even when I go back to old games that character is called Dan in my mind because of that
I believe having the Gym Guide be named Danpei was the plan since the beginning; Helix Chamber covers unused sprites from Gen 1, and there’s a much more obvious reference to Ashita no Joe’s Danpei as the Gym GuideThe fun thing is he's been Dan ("Danpei") internally in Gen 6 & Let's Go.
I also thought he was "danpei" before that, but I guess not. However while double checking that I learned that the Gen 5 guide had his own name, Clyde! So that's fun.
Oh that's what I was thinking of!I believe having the Gym Guide be named Danpei was the plan since the beginning; Helix Chamber covers unused sprites from Gen 1, and there’s a much more obvious reference to Ashita no Joe’s Danpei as the Gym Guide
The Gym coach has a completely different design which, as the internal name shows, is based off Danpei, the coach from the manga Ashita no Joe. Funnily enough, the Gym coach from Pokémon X and Y still uses "Danpei" as his internal name. This would eventually come full circle, with the Gym coach being named Dan (Danpei in the Japanese versions) in Pokémon Sword and Shield. An individual version of this character's spriteset can be found under DANPEI.DAT.
However while double checking that I learned that the Gen 5 guide had his own name, Clyde! So that's fun.
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One thing I really love about the Alola games is the snarky dialogue trees the games gave the player character. Base Sun and Moon had a noticeably darker (though still family-friendly!) story with slightly more complex characters than usual, and I think the snarky dialogue went a long way in taking the edge off (shout out to Guzma wanting to smack a child, that's pretty crazy!). As good as BW1's story is, you're still essentially a personality-less mute who can just select Yes or No.
Yes, Alola protagonists are still mutes and have no real role in the story, and that's true, it's moreso Lillie's story. But even with that problem, I think they did a pretty good job with the funny quips.