Project Metagame Workshop

[KaenSoul]

I think this a good idea! It indeed takes away the RNG aspect while also including all field conditions (rip Gravity lol).

Two additional ideas:
(1) what if the field on turn 0 is random, so it doesn’t always start with Rain/Grassy/TR. Then everything afterwards will be predictable.
(2a) what if the field conditions change once every like 5 turns (so weather, terrain and room simul? This opens up for a bit more strategizing instead of erratically rotating. In some way rotating every turn could be cool, but I would maybe expect a lot of people slapping protect on their mons.
(2b) what if the field conditions chance once every 6 turns, but now weather changes after turn 2, terrain after turn 4, room after turn 6 and then again weather after turn 8. Just a different variant that provides a bit more oversight with all the field condition changing.

I think ideas 1 and 2 could be used together as well. I would love to hear what you and others think about the idea of the rotating field conditions.

Again you should avoid anything that has to do with RNG, randomness is something quite difficult to dealt with for anyone trying to build a competitive team.
Either way, when trying to decide how long should the effect last you may have to ask yourself how long they need to be impactful while not overstaying their welcome, if they last for too few then it may be hard to take any advantage from them but if they last for too long then you may not see most of them and the early weathers may be the only important ones.

 

[Sviqma]

1) i think is pretty fair as an idea
2a) tbh i think the fun of the metagame is having new things happen more frequently than every 5 turns, because otherwise things are going to get samey for extended periods
b)the idea of having cascading changes so each individual condition lasts longer is all good, but i would once again suggest changing more frequently because 6 turns of sun or trick room or whatever feels too standard- how about every single turn a new one changes, so each condition is lasting 3 turns instead of 6? it would probably feel more different and be more fun, because you cant just go all in on trick room or all in on sun and get a full 6 uninterrupted turns. tldr im cautious that the most impactful conditions lasting 6 turns means you could center your team all around that strategy, whereas the fun of the metagame seems to be trying to mix and match a bunch of different archetypes that otherwise have no business being together.

I personally think the shorter the time with each condition the better, but the idea of having a little bit of cascading doesnt hurt too. 2 or 3 is the ideal number of turns with each condition in my opinion, gives you time to find a way to switch in against a powerful mon that is abusing its ideal condition across 1 or 2 turns and then take advantage of the new conditions yourself.

I would want to run random stuff like an aurora veil froslass, choice specs walking wake, ursaluna and unburden hawlucha all on the same team and get away with it. Instead of running a full sun/trick room team and stalling until my conditions appear for the next 6 turns. Anyway, really like the idea and hope you submit it! I would try this meta out

Quick question: how or where do I actually sumbit an idea for an OM? ;x

I was aware that this thread was for sharing ideas and such, but I thought you had to be picked out here or something lol.

 

[Sviqma]

Again you should avoid anything that has to do with RNG, randomness is something quite difficult to dealt with for anyone trying to build a competitive team.
Either way, when trying to decide how long should the effect last you may have to ask yourself how long they need to be impactful while not overstaying their welcome, if they last for too few then it may be hard to take any advantage from them but if they last for too long then you may not see most of them and the early weathers may be the only important ones.

I find it hard to come up with an idea for turn 0 that does not involve RNG. Personally I think that always starting with the same field conditions (say Rain, Grass, TR) pretty much encourages everyone to bring a dedicated lead. This is not a problem necessarily, but it restricts building freedom to me. I think if only turn 0 is randomized, then the rest of the game is predictable with to rotations which also opens up strategizing.

Regarding the number of turns before rotation: also hard to say, especially without being able to test it. I think that 3 turns is close to ideal, which means that if you actively pivot your say rain sweeper in on the turn before rain goes up, you have a maximum of 3 turns to use it, but in most cases it will only be 1 or 2 turns. I would expect this to be both impactful enough to abuse the field conditions, but also not too overstaying that teams instantly get swept. With 3 turns of each field condition, I even think this meta could see an increase in the use of Protect, which could be interesting.

Lastly, I’m not sure on whether all weather, terrain and dimension should change at the same time after 3 turns, or one changes per turn in a set order. Ideas?

 

[Cuddly]

O’l Reliable​

Metagame Premise: In this metagame, every Pokemon gets every move that has over 100% accuracy and has Base Power ranging from 80-90.

O’l Reliable moves

Alluring Voice, Apple Acid, Aqua Step, Attack Order, Aura Sphere, Bitter Blade, Body Press, Body Slam, Bug Buzz, Crunch, Dark Pulse, Darkest Lariat, Dazzling Gleam, Dig, Dire Claw, Discharge, Dive, Dragon Claw, Dragon Hammer, Dragon Pulse, Drill Peck, Drum Beating, Earth Power, Eerie Spell, Energy Ball, Esper Wing, Expanding Force, Extrasensory, Extreme Speed, False Surrender, Fickle Beam, Fiery Dance, Fiery Wrath, Fire Lash, Fire Pledge, First Impression, Flamethrower, Flash Cannon, Freezing Glare, Grass Pledge, Grav Apple, Hydro Steam, Hyper Voice, Hyperspace Hole, Ice Beam, Ice Spinner, Iron Head, Jaw Lock, Kowtow Cleave, Lava Plume, Leaf Blade, Leech Life, Liquidation, Lumina Crash, Lunge, Order Up, Overdrive, Petal Blizzard, Phantom Force, Poison Jab, Pollen Puff, Power Gem, Psyblade, Psychic, Psychic Fangs, Psyshock, Raging Bull, Revelation Dance, Sacred Sword, Scald, Secret Sword, Seed Bomb, Shadow Ball, Shell Side Arm, Sludge Bomb, Snipe Shot, Sparkling Aria, Spirit Shackle, Strength, Surf, Tera Blast, Throat Chop, Thunderbolt, Thunderous Kick, Torch Song, Tri Attack, Triple Arrows, Uproar, Water Pledge, Waterfall, Wild Charge, X-Scissor, Zing Zap

You can also use the command “/ms acc >= 100, bp >= 80, bp <= 90, all“ to find all these moves

Potential Threats and Bans:

For sure will be looked at first for Pokemon. Gaining access to Spirit Shackle, Thunderous Kick/Triple Arrows, Aura Sphere, Secret Sword, Torch Song, etc. on top of its existing movepool is absurd. You get excellent coverage in Fighting/Ghost on both sides along with means to boost those offenses.


Of course some moves simply should be restricted too. Extreme Speed having been a staple “banned from X Othermeta” when its given to multiple Pokemon. It’s reliable and has +2 priority. Another move that comes to mind is Dire Claw, especially when given to any Serene Grace Pokemon. Likewise giving a Pokemon with loaded effects of Triple Arrows doesn’t sound too balanced, especially on Jirachi.

Questions for the community:
1. I feel as though every 100% accurate move with BP range of 80-90 encompasses most of what people would call the “reliable” moves. It including moves like Iron Head, Flamethrower, Shadow Ball, etc. but this range does exclude some moves like the Elemental Punches or Moonblast. I say 80/90 is a good balance of moves that every Pokemon can now learn, but I was wondering if the range should be different. Like maybe lower bounds of 70 or 75, and an upperbrounds of 95 or 100? Just as an example.

 

[Gambit]

O’l Reliable​

Metagame Premise: In this metagame, every Pokemon gets every move that has over 100% accuracy and has Base Power ranging from 80-90.

O’l Reliable moves

Alluring Voice, Apple Acid, Aqua Step, Attack Order, Aura Sphere, Bitter Blade, Body Press, Body Slam, Bug Buzz, Crunch, Dark Pulse, Darkest Lariat, Dazzling Gleam, Dig, Dire Claw, Discharge, Dive, Dragon Claw, Dragon Hammer, Dragon Pulse, Drill Peck, Drum Beating, Earth Power, Eerie Spell, Energy Ball, Esper Wing, Expanding Force, Extrasensory, Extreme Speed, False Surrender, Fickle Beam, Fiery Dance, Fiery Wrath, Fire Lash, Fire Pledge, First Impression, Flamethrower, Flash Cannon, Freezing Glare, Grass Pledge, Grav Apple, Hydro Steam, Hyper Voice, Hyperspace Hole, Ice Beam, Ice Spinner, Iron Head, Jaw Lock, Kowtow Cleave, Lava Plume, Leaf Blade, Leech Life, Liquidation, Lumina Crash, Lunge, Order Up, Overdrive, Petal Blizzard, Phantom Force, Poison Jab, Pollen Puff, Power Gem, Psyblade, Psychic, Psychic Fangs, Psyshock, Raging Bull, Revelation Dance, Sacred Sword, Scald, Secret Sword, Seed Bomb, Shadow Ball, Shell Side Arm, Sludge Bomb, Snipe Shot, Sparkling Aria, Spirit Shackle, Strength, Surf, Tera Blast, Throat Chop, Thunderbolt, Thunderous Kick, Torch Song, Tri Attack, Triple Arrows, Uproar, Water Pledge, Waterfall, Wild Charge, X-Scissor, Zing Zap

You can also use the command “/ms acc >= 100, bp >= 80, bp <= 90, all“ to find all these moves

Potential Threats and Bans:

For sure will be looked at first for Pokemon. Gaining access to Spirit Shackle, Thunderous Kick/Triple Arrows, Aura Sphere, Secret Sword, Torch Song, etc. on top of its existing movepool is absurd. You get excellent coverage in Fighting/Ghost on both sides along with means to boost those offenses.


Of course some moves simply should be restricted too. Extreme Speed having been a staple “banned from X Othermeta” when its given to multiple Pokemon. It’s reliable and has +2 priority. Another move that comes to mind is Dire Claw, especially when given to any Serene Grace Pokemon. Likewise giving a Pokemon with loaded effects of Triple Arrows doesn’t sound too balanced, especially on Jirachi.

Questions for the community:
1. I feel as though every 100% accurate move with BP range of 80-90 encompasses most of what people would call the “reliable” moves. It including moves like Iron Head, Flamethrower, Shadow Ball, etc. but this range does exclude some moves like the Elemental Punches or Moonblast. I say 80/90 is a good balance of moves that every Pokemon can now learn, but I was wondering if the range should be different. Like maybe lower bounds of 70 or 75, and an upperbrounds of 95 or 100? Just as an example.

Feels like STABmons but you also get the non stab moves

 

[Cuddly]

Feels like STABmons but you also get the non stab moves

Frankly kind of the opposite. Most Pokemon already get reliable moves for their STABs. I feel like most of the metagame will be abusing the coverage options, like Secret Sword Dragapult or Earthpower Volcarona.
Of course there is also no insanely powerful options like Astral Barrage or Precipice Blades that any Ghost or Ground type can get for being said respective typings.

 

[BandedBodyPress]

To me this seems like reinvented Sketchmons with more restrictions.

Metagames that expand your movepool are usually based on characteristics that the Pokemon has, like its type or name. When it’s based on moves themselves it’s for the best to have the least amount of restrictions. For this, things like status moves and STAB moves are entirely or near entirely removed from the equation. Most Pokemon will have a stronger damage option, and if they don’t they will likely have a move that is given to everything by this rule set.

The only thing I’ve seen close to what I’ve described above were Cross Evolution and Broken Record. CE had their moveset expansion based on a different Pokemon, and included stat and type changes, and was somewhat customizable. BR had the novelty of adding a 5th move slot. I think that this would be better if it had something else going on to make it more than giving everything mid coverage options.

 

[Cuddly]

To me this seems like reinvented Sketchmons with more restrictions.

Metagames that expand your movepool are usually based on characteristics that the Pokemon has, like its type or name. When it’s based on moves themselves it’s for the best to have the least amount of restrictions. For this, things like status moves and STAB moves are entirely or near entirely removed from the equation. Most Pokemon will have a stronger damage option, and if they don’t they will likely have a move that is given to everything by this rule set.

The only thing I’ve seen close to what I’ve described above were Cross Evolution and Broken Record. CE had their moveset expansion based on a different Pokemon, and included stat and type changes, and was somewhat customizable. BR had the novelty of adding a 5th move slot. I think that this would be better if it had something else going on to make it more than giving everything mid coverage options.

Thanks
Let me know if you hsve ideas for how to make the concept more interesting.

 

[prunyy]

Pocket Monsters (name is not the best but i’m not good at them)

Premise: One move in a Pokemon's moveset can be replaced with a Pokemon’s name.

The type of this move will be one of the type(s) of the Pokemon, the category is the highest attacking base stat of the Pokemon, the base power is the Pokemon’s highest base stat/2 + 20, the accuracy is always 100, and its secondary effect will give one of the abilities of the Pokemon temporarily for one turn.
Edit: I'm now realizing PP and priority are also characteristics of a move. I would keep PP at 8 since these moves can get quite strong and priority to 0.

Example:

Heatran_Fire_FlashFire

Giving a Pokemon this move will result in a Fire-type special move with 85 BP, 100 Acc and Flash Fire will be an added simultaneous ability to the Pokemon that used the move, for only the turn after the move was used.

The validator would check if the combination of Pokemon, type, and ability to see if it is a valid combination or not.

Questions:

Maybe it is too complicated?
I liked the idea of Pokemon as a move and tried to balance it out without making it too complicated while still having the Pokemon move cover all aspects of a move such as type and secondary effect.

Is it balanced enough or too weak to justify using over a regular move?
An 80-90 base power move would need a Pokemon whose highest stat is between 120 and 140. I think this a sweet spot of stats, but I wouldn’t be opposed for a change as long as it is simple.

Should there be any changes to how the type, accuracy, or secondary effect be determined as well?

Is there too much freedom by allowing any Pokemon to be used as a move?
While I’m not against allowing any Pokemon to be used as a move on any Pokemon, I find that successful metas need to have a good balance between restriction and freedom. Does this meta achieve that? Are there any restrictions or freedoms that need to be made?

Maybe is it just really complicated Sketchmons? What do you think?

did this on my phone sorry if formatting is weird

 

[Hiusi guy]

I like the idea, as well it doesn't seem too complicated just a bit daunting at first perhaps. It also seems to be random with the type and ability part, which unfortunately is a big no no for oms so you'd have to settle on probably primary type/ability, if not that then find a different way to determine the types/abilities. Also what would be the verdict on decidedinf a category with stat ties like with some of the mythicals, would it be atk all the time from priority or some other decider? Also maybe add some bans

Other than that I'd also like to have clarification on if you mean abilities activate right after you use it for the rest of the turn or right after you use it as well as throughout the next turn. If the former the ability part feels unnecessary barring things like weather or terrain, if the latter though it could definitely work if only with a few possibly broken outliers like speed boost or pure power. It would also be interesting to see how intim or syrup would work, if they are to activate everytime they're used or never activating.

Funy theroycrafts

@ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- (Physical (prolly), 50 BP, Fighting, Pure Power)

@ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Heavy Slam
- Low Kick
- (Physical, 87.5 BP, Ground, Sand Rush)

@ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Dark Pulse
- (Special, 78 BP, Bug, Speed Boost)

@ Focus Sash
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Astral Barrage
- Psyshock / Baton Pass
- (Special, 87.5 BP, Fairy, Cute Charm)
:)

 

[Lectrys]

Pocket Monsters (name is not the best but i’m not good at them)

Premise: Moves can be replaced with a Pokemon’s name now.

The type of this move will be one of the type(s) of the Pokemon, the category is the highest attacking base stat of the Pokemon, the base power is the Pokemon’s highest base stat/2 + 20, the accuracy is always 100, and its secondary effect will give one of the abilities of the Pokemon temporarily for one turn.

Example:

Heatran_Fire_FlashFire

Giving a Pokemon this move will result in a Fire-type special move with 85 BP, 100 Acc and Flash Fire will be an added simultaneous ability to the Pokemon that used the move, for only the turn after the move was used.

The validator would check if the combination of Pokemon, type, and ability to see if it is a valid combination or not.

Questions:

Maybe it is too complicated?
I liked the idea of Pokemon as a move and tried to balance it out without making it too complicated while still having the Pokemon move cover all aspects of a move such as type and secondary effect.

Is it balanced enough or too weak to justify using over a regular move?
An 80-90 base power move would need a Pokemon whose highest stat is between 120 and 140. I think this a sweet spot of stats, but I wouldn’t be opposed for a change as long as it is simple.

Should there be any changes to how the type, accuracy, or secondary effect be determined as well?

Is there too much freedom by allowing any Pokemon to be used as a move?
While I’m not against allowing any Pokemon to be used as a move on any Pokemon, I find that successful metas need to have a good balance between restriction and freedom. Does this meta achieve that? Are there any restrictions or freedoms that need to be made?

Maybe is it just really complicated Sketchmons? What do you think?

did this on my phone sorry if formatting is weird

Some questions:

1. Does the newly granted ability replace the user's old ability or stack on top of it (a la As One)?
2. Can I use moves named after Pokemon forms? I'm interested in trying out Palafin-Hero(-Water-ZeroToHero), Calyrex-S(-Ghost/Psychic-AsOneSpectrier), Salamence-Mega(-Flying-Aerilate), and more. ...Alternately, must these forms-as-names be legal in Pokemon Scarlet and Violet?
3. I wanna see how busted Blissey(-Normal-SereneGrace) is. It should be a Special move with 147.5 BP. ...That's a better Boomburst. Ban this first?

Actually, I'd be worried the moment any base stat reaches 200 or higher. Moves like Regieleki(-Electric-Transistor) and Regidrago(-Dragon-Dragon'sMaw) look pretty sick as 120-BP moves that are boosted the next turn.

 

[BandedBodyPress]

Maybe is it just really complicated Sketchmons? What do you think?

I really like this idea. I don’t know if it needs to be simplified at all, but here’s things I’d consider:

• Is the only way to reveal the new move would be by using it?
• Could we restrict mons from being used as moves? Could we restrict certain abilities?
• Would Dauntless Shield and Intrepid Sword activate on every use? If I activate Protosynthesis or Quark Drive and I had a Booster Energy, would my Proto/Quark boost go away at the end of the turn? If I have Unburden as the move-ability, would it check if I lost the item already or wpuld I have to lose it while I have Unburden?
• Um how does it determine whether the move is physical or special? I would think it’s based on the higher stat (between physical and special) of the user, as it does in Photon Geyser.
• Does the ability activate before the move attacks or after? I think this is a very important thing to do. Having it activate after the move is already used has If it activates before, that could open up a lot of potential offensively. I think this could be shown this way

Serperior harnesses the power of Chi Yu.
[Serperior's Beads of Ruin]
Serperior's Beads of Ruin weakened the Sp. Def of all surrounding Pokémon!
Serperior used ChiYu_Fire_BeadsofRuin

• Or does the ability activate after the move is used, and is active until the end of the following turn? This too has a lot of offensive and defensive potential to me. That way something like Regenerator or Adaptability can function as it wants to, and still be a coverage option.

Sorry about all my yapping. This concept is complicated because of the logistics of inventing a new move. Still I love this idea conceptually and would love to see it develop into an OM.

 

[prunyy]

I like the idea, as well it doesn't seem too complicated just a bit daunting at first perhaps. It also seems to be random with the type and ability part, which unfortunately is a big no no for oms so you'd have to settle on probably primary type/ability, if not that then find a different way to determine the types/abilities. Also what would be the verdict on decidedinf a category with stat ties like with some of the mythicals, would it be atk all the time from priority or some other decider? Also maybe add some bans

Other than that I'd also like to have clarification on if you mean abilities activate right after you use it for the rest of the turn or right after you use it as well as throughout the next turn. If the former the ability part feels unnecessary barring things like weather or terrain, if the latter though it could definitely work if only with a few possibly broken outliers like speed boost or pure power. It would also be interesting to see how intim or syrup would work, if they are to activate everytime they're used or never activating.

Funy theroycrafts

@ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- (Physical (prolly), 50 BP, Fighting, Pure Power)

@ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Heavy Slam
- Low Kick
- (Physical, 87.5 BP, Ground, Sand Rush)

@ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Dark Pulse
- (Special, 78 BP, Bug, Speed Boost)

@ Focus Sash
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Astral Barrage
- Psyshock / Baton Pass
- (Special, 87.5 BP, Fairy, Cute Charm)
:)

I think the easiest solution would just be primary type. For abilities, if the host Pokemon has chosen its hidden ability, the secondary effect would be the hidden ability of the Pokemon move, first ability corresponds to first ability, and second ability corresponds to second ability. Of course there are Pokemon with only two or one abilities so maybe just chose the first regular ability then.
Maybe if the two attacking stats are same, it could act like Tera Blast.
I don’t really like to do bans right away but probably ban most cover legendaries.

For abilities, the latter that you described. I agree that it would be more impactful. Also to be fair, Speed Boost only works for the turn right after so it is basically like Trailblaze but delayed a turn.

Edit: Medicham would be a 60 BP move, not 50, since its highest stat is Spe (80).

Some questions:

1. Does the newly granted ability replace the user's old ability or stack on top of it (a la As One)?
2. Can I use moves named after Pokemon forms? I'm interested in trying out Palafin-Hero(-Water-ZeroToHero), Calyrex-S(-Ghost/Psychic-AsOneSpectrier), Salamence-Mega(-Flying-Aerilate), and more. ...Alternately, must these forms-as-names be legal in Pokemon Scarlet and Violet?
3. I wanna see how busted Blissey(-Normal-SereneGrace) is. It should be a Special move with 147.5 BP. ...That's a better Boomburst. Ban this first?

Actually, I'd be worried the moment any base stat reaches 200 or higher. Moves like Regieleki(-Electric-Transistor) and Regidrago(-Dragon-Dragon'sMaw) look pretty sick as 120-BP moves that are boosted the next turn.

The ability will stack like As One. Two abilities at once.
Pokemon forms should be fine as moves, but everything has to probably be from Gen 9.
Pokemon move bans have to probably be implemented, I don’t think there is any world where that won’t happen. I generally just like to think of the workshop as a place for critiquing ideas as banlists can generally be figured out in submissions.

I really like this idea. I don’t know if it needs to be simplified at all, but here’s things I’d consider:

• Is the only way to reveal the new move would be by using it?
• Could we restrict mons from being used as moves? Could we restrict certain abilities?
• Would Dauntless Shield and Intrepid Sword activate on every use? If I activate Protosynthesis or Quark Drive and I had a Booster Energy, would my Proto/Quark boost go away at the end of the turn? If I have Unburden as the move-ability, would it check if I lost the item already or wpuld I have to lose it while I have Unburden?
• Um how does it determine whether the move is physical or special? I would think it’s based on the higher stat (between physical and special) of the user, as it does in Photon Geyser.
• Does the ability activate before the move attacks or after? I think this is a very important thing to do. Having it activate after the move is already used has If it activates before, that could open up a lot of potential offensively. I think this could be shown this way

Serperior harnesses the power of Chi Yu.
[Serperior's Beads of Ruin]
Serperior's Beads of Ruin weakened the Sp. Def of all surrounding Pokémon!
Serperior used ChiYu_Fire_BeadsofRuin

• Or does the ability activate after the move is used, and is active until the end of the following turn? This too has a lot of offensive and defensive potential to me. That way something like Regenerator or Adaptability can function as it wants to, and still be a coverage option.

Sorry about all my yapping. This concept is complicated because of the logistics of inventing a new move. Still I love this idea conceptually and would love to see it develop into an OM.

Yes, maybe similar to Sketchmons since you can basically have perfect coverage. Maybe restricting to one Pokemon move might be good.
Pokemon moves can be banned, banning just the abilities seems too complex. It is banning an ability of a Pokemon that another Pokemon uses as a move.
With Dauntless Shield and Intrepid Sword, they would activate at the next turn. Proto/Quark boost would go away I think. Unburden probably checks active loss of the item, I don’t remember if Unburden just works itemless but probably not. Basically, the ability as added the next turn, and, a way to think of it is that Neutralizing Gas is applied to that ability the turn right after, so things like weather would stay but not something like Speed Boost.
The ability adds the next turn. If you click a Pokemon move on turn 5, you will have a second ability only for the entire duration of turn 6.

 

[Cuddly]

Pocket Monsters (name is not the best but i’m not good at them)

Premise: Moves can be replaced with a Pokemon’s name now.

The type of this move will be one of the type(s) of the Pokemon, the category is the highest attacking base stat of the Pokemon, the base power is the Pokemon’s highest base stat/2 + 20, the accuracy is always 100, and its secondary effect will give one of the abilities of the Pokemon temporarily for one turn.
Edit: I'm now realizing PP and priority are also characteristics of a move. I would keep PP at 8 since these moves can get quite strong and priority to 0.

Example:

Heatran_Fire_FlashFire

Giving a Pokemon this move will result in a Fire-type special move with 85 BP, 100 Acc and Flash Fire will be an added simultaneous ability to the Pokemon that used the move, for only the turn after the move was used.

The validator would check if the combination of Pokemon, type, and ability to see if it is a valid combination or not.

Questions:

Maybe it is too complicated?
I liked the idea of Pokemon as a move and tried to balance it out without making it too complicated while still having the Pokemon move cover all aspects of a move such as type and secondary effect.

Is it balanced enough or too weak to justify using over a regular move?
An 80-90 base power move would need a Pokemon whose highest stat is between 120 and 140. I think this a sweet spot of stats, but I wouldn’t be opposed for a change as long as it is simple.

Should there be any changes to how the type, accuracy, or secondary effect be determined as well?

Is there too much freedom by allowing any Pokemon to be used as a move?
While I’m not against allowing any Pokemon to be used as a move on any Pokemon, I find that successful metas need to have a good balance between restriction and freedom. Does this meta achieve that? Are there any restrictions or freedoms that need to be made?

Maybe is it just really complicated Sketchmons? What do you think?

did this on my phone sorry if formatting is weird

Can you give the classroom an example in action? Like a few sets demonstrating how it works and its limitations.

 

[prunyy]

Can you give the classroom an example in action? Like a few sets demonstrating how it works and its limitations.

Ting-Lu

Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Earthquake
- alomomolawaterregenerator

What does Ting-Lu lack? Recovery.
The move "Alomomola_Water_Regenerator" uses Alomomola, which is a pure Water-type and one of its abilities is Regenerator. This move will be a 102.5 BP (Alomomola's highest stat is HP at 165, so the BP is (165/2)+20), physical (Alomomola's highest attacking stat is its 75 Atk) Water-type move (specified by the type in the move name) which gives Ting-Lu Regenerator on top of Vessel Of Ruin for the full duration of the next turn. When Ting-Lu switches the turn after using this, it will regain 1/3 its max HP, but not when it switches two or more turns later.

Dragapult

Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- basculegionghostadaptability

What does Dragapult lack? A reliable physical Ghost-type move.
The move "Basculegion_Ghost_Adaptability" uses Basculegion, which is a Water/Ghost-Type and one of its abilities is Adaptability. This move will be an 80 BP, physical, Ghost-type move which gives Dragapult Adaptability on top of Infiltrator the next turn. This allows it to spam Basculegion at a 2x STAB instead of 1.5x STAB and it can also switch to Dragon Darts and still have an Adaptability boost for a turn.

I've decided that the limit of Pokemon moves allowed is one per moveset, otherwise Pokemon get any coverage and it'll be too unpredictable. Maybe also some clause that broadcasts what Pokemon move a Pokemon has, if any. For example, sending out Ting-Lu would show a little tag under the HP bar that says "Alomomola".

 

[Cuddly]

Ting-Lu

Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Earthquake
- alomomolawaterregenerator

What does Ting-Lu lack? Recovery.
The move "Alomomola_Water_Regenerator" uses Alomomola, which is a pure Water-type and one of its abilities is Regenerator. This move will be a 102.5 BP (Alomomola's highest stat is HP at 165, so the BP is (165/2)+20), physical (Alomomola's highest attacking stat is its 75 Atk) Water-type move (specified by the type in the move name) which gives Ting-Lu Regenerator on top of Vessel Of Ruin for the full duration of the next turn. When Ting-Lu switches the turn after using this, it will regain 1/3 its max HP, but not when it switches two or more turns later.

Dragapult

Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- basculegionghostadaptability

What does Dragapult lack? A reliable physical Ghost-type move.
The move "Basculegion_Ghost_Adaptability" uses Basculegion, which is a Water/Ghost-Type and one of its abilities is Adaptability. This move will be an 80 BP, physical, Ghost-type move which gives Dragapult Adaptability on top of Infiltrator the next turn. This allows it to spam Basculegion at a 2x STAB instead of 1.5x STAB and it can also switch to Dragon Darts and still have an Adaptability boost for a turn.

I've decided that the limit of Pokemon moves allowed is one per moveset, otherwise Pokemon get any coverage and it'll be too unpredictable. Maybe also some clause that broadcasts what Pokemon move a Pokemon has, if any. For example, sending out Ting-Lu would show a little tag under the HP bar that says "Alomomola".

Probably a wise choice to limit only 1 move per Pokemon and no Pokemon sharing the same move.
Also maybe limit Pokemon using themselves.
Like using Regidregodragondragon’smaw where the move starts out with 180 BP thank’s to Dragon’s Maw, then reaches 270 as it gets spammed because of second Dragon’s Maw.
Or Azumarill getting either Water or Fairy move at 70 BP that gives it an Atk stat of 872 or Base 347 Atk.

 

[KaenSoul]

The idea seems good, but I think you need to simplify it a bit, I would make the BP and category equal to the highest offensive stat, so we can forget about formulas, you may have to restrict a bunch, but I doubt the mons you use as move matters that much beyond the ability/effect so having some be useful for their raw power may be fine, and not a lot is over 120.
Have abilities stay after you use the move until you leave the field, it makes sure they are impactful, maybe make it so is always the default ability.
Neutral priority, 8 PP and 100Acc seem fine. Type should be the mon's primary typing.

 

[prunyy]

Probably a wise choice to limit only 1 move per Pokemon and no Pokemon sharing the same move.
Also maybe limit Pokemon using themselves.
Like using Regidregodragondragon’smaw where the move starts out with 180 BP thank’s to Dragon’s Maw, then reaches 270 as it gets spammed because of second Dragon’s Maw.
Or Azumarill getting either Water or Fairy move at 70 BP that gives it an Atk stat of 872 or Base 347 Atk.

Abilities probably won’t stack, much like they don’t in Shared Power. I’m not sure how it’ll be coded but what you mentioned is definitely something to keep in mind.

The idea seems good, but I think you need to simplify it a bit, I would make the BP and category equal to the highest offensive stat, so we can forget about formulas, you may have to restrict a bunch, but I doubt the mons you use as move matters that much beyond the ability/effect so having some be useful for their raw power may be fine, and not a lot is over 120.
Have abilities stay after you use the move until you leave the field, it makes sure they are impactful, maybe make it so is always the default ability.
Neutral priority, 8 PP and 100Acc seem fine. Type should be the mon's primary typing.

If abilities are a core gimmick of this OM, especially being active until switching, it would be best to have some freedom I think. Maybe just a number after the Pokemon move that shows which ability, in the order it is in builder, should suffice. “Heatran1” would be Flash Fire and “Heatran2” would be Flame Body. The other simplifications are fine though, just means more bans.

 

[BandedBodyPress]

Here is a deviation from the main ruleset that might solve the issue of having less restrictions and having a reasonable Base Power.


Torkoal_Drought (Great Tusk) @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner
- Bulk Up
- Rapid Spin

What this model does is it takes an already-existing move from the base Pokémon’s 4th move slot and modifies it. How does it modify it? Upon using the 4th slotted move, all the ability stuff activates. Not only that, but this move will be changed to match the primary type of the Pokemon you are drawing from.

In this Great Tusk, Rapid Spin will become Fire Type and activate Drought. It will also retain the initial qualities of the move, which in this case is clearing hazards and granting a +1 speed boost.


Alomomola_Regenerator (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
- Earthquake
- Throat Chop
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes

This model would also make it so that the ability activation work with status moves, as well as attacks.

Pros:

• Don’t have to type the moves into the move slots, making validation much easier
• Base Power and secondary effects of the moves are introduced, and are determined by moves that already exist in its moveset.
• You can see what ability the move is going to activate, because the name and ability of a Pokemon is required for the move to be modified. The same is true with typing.
• Status moves under this model can activate abilities.

Cons:

• Status moves under this model can activate abilities. Subprotect nightmare.
• I couldn’t think of a simple way to leave the activated ability from being seen. I originally had it be the ability slot, but then how would you choose your regular ability?
• This model changes it so that the type that the mod move changes to has to be the Primary type of the Pokemon in the name.

 

[KaenSoul]

Abilities probably won’t stack, much like they don’t in Shared Power. I’m not sure how it’ll be coded but what you mentioned is definitely something to keep in mind.


If abilities are a core gimmick of this OM, especially being active until switching, it would be best to have some freedom I think. Maybe just a number after the Pokemon move that shows which ability, in the order it is in builder, should suffice. “Heatran1” would be Flash Fire and “Heatran2” would be Flame Body. The other simplifications are fine though, just means more bans.

I would prefer if there is no control over the abilities to have an easier time at keeping them under control, funnily enough, the limitations would prevent most of the strong abilities from being easily accessible, so they don't steal the spotlight and is easier to pick the broken elements as each mon would be translated to one move, instead of 3 possible ones. Either way, if you really want to let people choose the ability maybe use the moveslot instead, if it move 1 then is ability 1.

Here is a deviation from the main ruleset that might solve the issue of having less restrictions and having a reasonable Base Power.


Torkoal_Drought (Great Tusk) @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner
- Bulk Up
- Rapid Spin

What this model does is it takes an already-existing move from the base Pokémon’s 4th move slot and modifies it. How does it modify it? Upon using the 4th slotted move, all the ability stuff activates. Not only that, but this move will be changed to match the primary type of the Pokemon you are drawing from.

In this Great Tusk, Rapid Spin will become Fire Type and activate Drought. It will also retain the initial qualities of the move, which in this case is clearing hazards and granting a +1 speed boost.


Alomomola_Regenerator (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
- Earthquake
- Throat Chop
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes

This model would also make it so that the ability activation work with status moves, as well as attacks.

Pros:

• Don’t have to type the moves into the move slots, making validation much easier
• Base Power and secondary effects of the moves are introduced, and are determined by moves that already exist in its moveset.
• You can see what ability the move is going to activate, because the name and ability of a Pokemon is required for the move to be modified. The same is true with typing.
• Status moves under this model can activate abilities.

Cons:

• Status moves under this model can activate abilities. Subprotect nightmare.
• I couldn’t think of a simple way to leave the activated ability from being seen. I originally had it be the ability slot, but then how would you choose your regular ability?
• This model changes it so that the type that the mod move changes to has to be the Primary type of the Pokemon in the name.

I'm not a big fan of this version, as it gives the format a bit less of an identity, it sounds fine, but it would make it too similar to other formats at surface level.

 

[Cuddly]

Here is a deviation from the main ruleset that might solve the issue of having less restrictions and having a reasonable Base Power.


Torkoal_Drought (Great Tusk) @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner
- Bulk Up
- Rapid Spin

What this model does is it takes an already-existing move from the base Pokémon’s 4th move slot and modifies it. How does it modify it? Upon using the 4th slotted move, all the ability stuff activates. Not only that, but this move will be changed to match the primary type of the Pokemon you are drawing from.

In this Great Tusk, Rapid Spin will become Fire Type and activate Drought. It will also retain the initial qualities of the move, which in this case is clearing hazards and granting a +1 speed boost.


Alomomola_Regenerator (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
- Earthquake
- Throat Chop
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes

This model would also make it so that the ability activation work with status moves, as well as attacks.

Pros:

• Don’t have to type the moves into the move slots, making validation much easier
• Base Power and secondary effects of the moves are introduced, and are determined by moves that already exist in its moveset.
• You can see what ability the move is going to activate, because the name and ability of a Pokemon is required for the move to be modified. The same is true with typing.
• Status moves under this model can activate abilities.

Cons:

• Status moves under this model can activate abilities. Subprotect nightmare.
• I couldn’t think of a simple way to leave the activated ability from being seen. I originally had it be the ability slot, but then how would you choose your regular ability?
• This model changes it so that the type that the mod move changes to has to be the Primary type of the Pokemon in the name.

It makes the meta more similar but I fear that it also makes it much more prone to broken stuff.
Like original would have you sacrifice an entire moveslot to something that would be lower power usually.
Like for instance the strongest move in the meta would have been Blissey which would only be BP 147.5
That’s pretty high but that’s the highest BP move you’ll get. Most Pokemon don’t have 255 in a stat or above 200 in any stat. Once you dip below the highest stat being 160 (which is majority of Pokemon) your BP goes under 100.
At 130 being your highest stat, the BP of moves is now 85. Etc.
So you have low BP moves and their effects are decently strong, but unlike what you’re suggesting it is only 1 effect. You definitely can get pretty insane combos beyond Rapid Spin + Drought. Like imagine Torch Song or Flower Trick could do.

 

[BandedBodyPress]

Like imagine Torch Song or Flower Trick could do.

I’m glad you brought that up.

There are 4 metagames, that at least I can remember, where the placement of moves makes a tangible impact on the battle. These are Camomons, Revelationmons, Force of the Fallen, and Linked.

3 of these have restrictions on moves, meaning that the restricted moves cannot play into the general gimmick of the metagame. In all of these metagames, the moves were just prevented from going into the relevant move slots for the Pokemon.

The remaining 1, Camomons, functions differently. The other 3 made some change with the moves of the Pokemon, where Camo changes the Pokémon’s type, instead of anything regarding the moves.

To finally just say my point: If a move is really strong because of how it activates an ability you can just restrict that move. There’s precedent in all relevant similar OMs to support this.

Yes there are potentially lucrative combinations. But, like, isn’t that part of what would make this interesting?

Also your examples of Torch Song and Flower Trick are only legal on a single Pokémon each. If they were really that strong you could just ban Dirge and Meowscarada.

 

[prunyy]

funnily enough, the limitations would prevent most of the strong abilities from being easily accessible

Ok, so I wanted to see how true it is. My spreadsheets probably have errors but this is what I got.

Unobtainable Abilities

Skill Link
Suction Cups
Slush Rush
Steely Spirit
Libero
Power of Alchemy
Costar
Ice Body
Long Reach
Toxic Boost
Flare Boost
Shadow Tag
Quick Feet
Analytic
Telepathy
Ice Scales
Moody
Sharpness
Protean
Guard Dog
Armor Tail
Storm Drain
Grass Pelt
Rain Dish
Wonder Skin
Galvanize
Download
Supreme Overlord
Misty Surge
Poison Heal
Stall
Fluffy
Cloud Nine
Tangled Feet
Liquid Voice
Embody Aspect
Anger Point
Huge Power
Dry Skin
Queenly Majesty
Sniper
Infiltrator
Grassy Surge
Psychic Surge
No Guard
Stalwart
Imposter
Forewarn
Magic Guard
Symbiosis
Heavy Metal
Propeller Tail
Tinted Lens
Arena Trap
Friend Guard
Electric Surge
Mirror Armor
Rocky Payload
Super Luck
Moxie
Simple
Harvest
Heatproof
Solar Power
Klutz
Filter
Solid Rock
Neutralizing Gas
Pixilate
Pickpocket
Tangling Hair
Rough Skin
Multiscale
Triage
Magic Bounce
Gale Wings

This list does include things like Huge Power whose Pokemon will be banned but also is also filled with a lot of miscellaneous abilities that vary from viable, like Sharpness, to not so viable, like Klutz. Almost a quarter of all abilities are snapped.

While I was messing with spreadsheets, I got a bit carried away. Using the new premise that the primary type of the Pokemon is the type of the move, the base power is the highest stat out of the two offensive stats, the category is which ever offensive stat is higher, and the ability is only the default one.

I want to change the OM name to "Pocket Movesters" as a pun of Pocket Monsters which is where the name Pokemon comes from. I'm calling these moves "Pokemoves."

 

[PQRDG]

...and now for something completely different.

Repeat After Me ​

Concept: Immediately after using a move, the opponent uses the same move, if possible. Similar to how the ability Dancer uses a Dance move immediately after someone on the field does, now every move used forces the opponent to follow up and do the same thing.

Possible Bans: At the moment all moves currently in the game are "legal", moves will likely be added to the Restricted Moves section below. Obligatory "Koraidon and Miraidon are banned." Moody, probably Trapping Abilities (Arena Trap, Shadow Tag)

Unrepeated Moves: (Edit: these moves will not be repeated by the opponent) Pivot Moves (Volt Switch/U-Turn/Flip Turn), Outrage, Focus Punch, Protection Moves (all moves listed here)

Strategies: (Edited to use the wording in my later post)

A Pokemon uses a move. The opponent will then use the same move. This does not occur when one of the below conditions occurs:

1) The move is on the "do not repeat" list (the Unrepeated Moves listed above)

2) The move has no affect on the target (the Pokemon's typing or ability giving an immunity, or being blocked by an active effect, such as terrain or Magic Bounce)

3) For whatever reason, the move fails (a condition is not met, like First Impression or Steel Roller, for example)

4) The Pokemon who used the move faints before the opponent gets to repeat it (whether this be from recoil or Life Orb damage, or whether this is a self-sacrificing move)

Examples

If a Pokemon has an ability that makes it immune to a type of move that it learns, it can safely use it and reap the benefits of it then being used by the opponent.

In that same vein, being immune to a move you know because of your typing is also good for you.

Want someone to hit you with just the right move to trigger your ability, or do a low amount of damage to improve your damage on a signature move? Pick a low damage move that your opponent can use to your benefit.

Be careful, set-up sweepers! Oricorio could use your dance moves before, but now anyone can too! Maybe boosting moves aren't the safest option to choose!

If you can force your opponent to flinch, they can't follow up and do your move, or theirs if you moved first. Just be careful that they don't flinch you instead!

Certain moves have conditions that would prevent the opponent from following up with the same move. Sucker Punch fails if your opponent moves before you, and First Impression only works during the Pokemon's first turn on the field. If played well, these moves can be used safely without issue.

Be smart with how you use your status conditions and reap the benefits accordingly.

Edited so it doesn't take up half the page, edited again after some more thought went into the concept. Edited a third time because I realized I hadn't considered the existence of Protect.

Oh man I completely forgot about this OM idea I submitted here back in 2022. Now I need to decide if it is a concept worth revisiting. This seemed like an interesting idea when there were very few new OMs coded, but it may not be as useful of an addition with the current state of the Gen 9 OM meta.

 

[Jiro7]

Hello, this is not an OM submission (yet), but rather a question related to it, because I've been searching everywhere and got no answer. I want to make sure my idea hasn't been suggested/rejected before.

Most simple mechanic changes have been explored yet but, for some reason, there's one that I can't see being used anhywere. And it barely requires any changes, it can probably be played in console.

Is there any metagame where Species Clause is removed and you are forced to use the same 1-2 mons in your 6 slots? Like something like "One for All" where ppl bring teams of 6 of the same species. Sets would, of course, be different, which is where this meta will shine. Hybrid mons could finally shine and people would explore creative sets more than ever, like physical attackers running special moves. In fact I believe it should have a "Move clause" to limit how many times the same move is used on the same mon, to make sure people are not spamming 6 kingambits with same sets.

An alternative idea I had is "2 for 6", which would be the same concept but allowing 2 different species, to allow for some pokemon with clear weak spots to be viable but still force and encourage repeating mons, and giving them unusual roles.

I don't want to go into much detail yet because I would like to know if this has been talked about before, as it seems like such a simple idea that should have been proposed before. I actually got this idea during April Fools of 2023 when they removed Species Clause and ppl were running crazy funny and creative teams. This should be a thing, so if no one wants to design a meta around it, I will