Boy this thread got grim really quick.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
come on man, if it was that cheap and led to as many freebie wins like you're acting it would be used way more in tournaments and the tier would shift around it, which it isnt. screens as a whole doesn't even see a ton of usage. this is very much a non problem and dying on this hill while insulting me for pointing out facts is silly.
Most people believe tera is not broken as shown by surveys, but those who think it shouldn't be here are alienated, I still stand by the opinion that a temporary experimental no tera ladder should definitely happen as it would make it feel like those players are at least heard and give players a small brief glimpse at a potential no tera meta.
I think as long as such a thing is a brief temporary ladder, I don't see an issue as long as it only stays up for like a few weeks to a month so it doesn't divide the playerbase for too long. No tera ladder is at least worth running for like a few weeks to a month just to see how a no tera meta would look, because a lot of players just don't know or have no clue what said meta would even look like
I think it is worth trying and maybe running some tournaments within this temporary ladder to really get an idea of what a no tera meta would look like at least.
I mean I do think that it is worth a shot to see what that meta would look like even if it only lasts a short period of time as the nature of temporary ladders often is, and to also acknowledge that tera still is somewhat controversial
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Banning a Pokemon that isn’t broken and is hardly viable to begin with when banlists are intended to be minimalistic is the downside. You don’t just ban for the sake of removing annoyances. Your posts are poor and I implore you to lurk more rather than digging your hole deeper with each “post reply” impulse.
In this essay, I will prove that Delibird brings nothing to the OU Tier, and will insinuate the only reason it's not banned is because Smogon is in bed with Big Christmas...
This one drives me crazy because it makes no sense from a thematic or balance viewpoint.
AV Glowking and Blissey.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
144+ SpA Slowking-Galar Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Ice Kyurem: 192-226 (49.1 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
Of course you lose if hazards are up.
Idk what the protocol is for resuspecting mons but I really wouldn’t mind seeing Kyurem at the chopping block again…
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I don't play National Dex, so I might me talking out of my ass here, but is this actually true?
Like, let's use Bolt as an example. Unlike Gen 9, Gen 7 OU has the Tapus, Ferrowthorn, Pre-Nerf Lando and Magaerna.
Meanwhile, Dragons are currently best they've been since Gen 5 because a lot of best Fairies are gone.
Raging Bolt would still be incredible in Gen 7, but it would face a much more hostile metagame. I guess it would benifit from teaming up with Mega Zard for proto boosts, but this just shows how different the metagames are.
Gen 9 has definitely seen stong power creep. No one is denying that. But, unlike a lot of the older gens, there is very little continuity between Gens 7, 8 and 9.
Dexit alone has completely reshaped what Gen 9 OU is. When Gliscor was reintroduced this gen, it had a massive effect on the OU meta. Conversly, we don't really have a Ferrothron replacment right now, so that's also a massive change.
Additionally, there's very little continuity in the movesets compared to Gen 7. No Hidden Power, no Pursuit, almost no defog, nerfed recovery, and general culling of moves has had a drastic effect on the metagame.
Throw in the other changes in the Meta from Gen 7, like the introduction of HDB, Tera vs Zmoves and Megas, the sleep ban and suddenly the criteria for what is good in Gen 7 vs 9 is completely different.
Ultimately, all the talk of power creep is somewhat overdone. It exists. Gen 9 introduced more mons than any Gen since 5, and there are a lot of powerful new abilities/signature moves.
But, we really need to stop comparing Gen 7 to Gen 9. Because Gen 9 isn't a continuation of the previous metagame. It's something weird and completely different. It's like trying to compare Gens 1 to 3.
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Aw man I miss ferrothorn, im so shocked it never returned, seems like an important pokemon!
How impactful do you think it would be in the meta if it was around?
How impactful do you think it would be in the meta if it was around?
Data before 17th May on the last month is not included so final data point is roughly half of what it should be...
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I, too, love posting charts that ignore many variables and relevant pieces of context.
I would sincerely love to know the pieces of context.
A ton of casual players shifted to playing VGC on showdown rather than OU (or other formats) now that PS has a more official and polished VGC ladder. The implementation of Bo3 and team sheets, which weren’t in place early in the generation, became a big draw connecting the game’s official format to online play on PS. You’d see a big spike that was maintained, and a large part of that is lower ladder/more casual play.
This is fine and even a good thing, imo, as it grows the larger community and makes PS a place for all types of interests. But naturally it’s going to decay away at the other non-Random formats numbers.
There’s also the fact that the overall number of games has no correlation on actual metagame quality or interest. 99% of ladder games are more casual or lower level (hell, you can say 95%, but you get the point) — they have no concept of what is broken or if the tier is balanced, but just prefer to use what they like or find cool on any given day, oftentimes circulating in from media like YT.
Basically the point you’re trying to make isn’t one that is actually proven from the graph at all.
Hello, due to the server outage, all battle logs before May 17th were lost, so yes you should care that servers went down. Half of the month is gone and there are no games recorded anymore. Reg G also saw a similar loss of players this month.
Ah, now this is a good reply. Thank you for the information. I'll update my post
The usage stats came and I'm surprised the distance between tusk and Kambit is lowering. More people are using tusk as the meta grows it seems. Zama is also now top dog literally lol being number 3. Two OU mons, Weavile and Skarmory, have also now dropped where they would technically be UU and Serp is at an embarrassing 1.8% now. On other news, our boy Moltres is now OU by usage!
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-05/gen9ou-1695.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-05/gen9ou-1695.txt
The parts that aren't bold are conjecture - nor you or I can prove that people are replacing OU with VGC. The part bolded is laughable; people aren't going to play a game mode if it sucks - you've literally just said yourself that people are playing more VGC because of their interest in it with the new updates. Regardless of our differences, equating less games with less interest / quality shouldn't be something controversial.
If you can’t grasp that the average ladder game consists of players who don’t understand if the metagame is good or not and just want to click around/use their favorites, then idk what to say. This has been an obvious, longstanding concept.
People who are 1075 or 1140 on ladder don’t have the concept of broken or balanced in mind. They don’t play for the sake of metagaming and optimizing. This is blatantly obvious to anyone who ladders up a few alts.
That is fine and casual play is awesome. I love that people can play the game for any reason they want!!! But they will play any version of OU all the same regardless of metagame specifics.
Your whole post and analysis is just bad. You continue to engage in bad-faith devil’s advocate across so many posts despite being repeatedly debunked. It’s just exhausting at this point. Like do you log on just to try and be disruptive? Surely you do not believe this actual point here if you’ve ever played ladder.
Finch, I am not disputing with you on your stance that the casual player just wants to have fun and doesn't care about metagame trends. The number of games being played in the tier is declining at a rate faster than the previous gen - this is the bottom line and I haven't even been pushing a narrative of why that is in my recent posts.
I look forward to the enjoyment scores on the new survey.
Debunked! Thank you casuals!
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even if the dip in players is indicative of a bad meta, i don't see how it's the council's fault. they've been more than willing to suspect and ban in accordance to the community's wishes. if there's a silent majority of tera/gambit/whatever haters who just dont do surveys im not really sure how the council could account for them
I think it’s just the massive divide tera caused tbh. Once the first suspect failed a lot of players who didn’t get the ban they wanted probably just jumped ship. It’s not the councils fault, banning tera would have caused the same level of divide
I swear like every other month the same few posters do the same racketeering and doomposting about the tier. Oh no! There's a decline that is almost exactly matched by the same period of time on the SS graph barring a one month jump upwards!
So as to not one-line, I'm surprised that Meowscarada is like, a full 10 places in usage higher than Weavile despite most people here seemingly agreeing that Weav is almost universally a better pick and easier slot on teams. Given at least a good deal of casuals should be filtered like me before 1695, this seems indicative people have at least found some use for the cat over the other... colder cat. Curious if anyone better than me has ideas as to why this would be.
So as to not one-line, I'm surprised that Meowscarada is like, a full 10 places in usage higher than Weavile despite most people here seemingly agreeing that Weav is almost universally a better pick and easier slot on teams. Given at least a good deal of casuals should be filtered like me before 1695, this seems indicative people have at least found some use for the cat over the other... colder cat. Curious if anyone better than me has ideas as to why this would be.
Nothing about being worse or better than you, but although it has less Atk and Speed and lacks priority, Meows has access to U-Turn and Trick, in addition to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Which makes it a powerful offensive pivot especially against Gliscor lead (Triple Axel + U-Turn) in addition to Protean to compensate for the lower attack, while Weavile is a little less flexible.
I've felt similarly with regards to the two, where I find the Glisc matchup and ability to pivot with a surprisingly strong U-Turn to be quite useful while Weavile usually provides an Ice resist given so many good rock/spikers are weak to it. I am curious what Meows are finding the turns to actually set up any form of hazard, but Trick is real. I was just curious since it felt discussion lately had been that the cat was washed. I suppose Weavile wasn't in a ton of discussion, but I assumed their usage would be similar.
coping over a game that happened in 1300s in the metagame thread and thinking its indicative of the current tier is pretty ridiculous bro, like come on have a bit more self awareness than this.
grimms usage according to pikalytics over all ratings on the OU ladder. I don't even think the tier is in a good spot right now but thinking grimmsnarl is the huge problem the tier just shows a overall lack of experience.
heres a novel idea: if you like gen3 so much better, go play it, its a good tier, nobody stopping you. play what you enjoy and dont waste your time if this is how youre going to react.
on an off-beat note I saw someone use that team on ladder, I forgot they could trap my Kingambit with Probopass but I Tera Darked and dealt a good chunk before switching out
I think I won afterwards it was honestly pretty funny