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OU ADV OU Metagame Discussion

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I've been trying to build a dual trap team to enable agiligross and I must say that 4 attacks snorlax is insanely fun to use. I think Earthquake should be the default move over Focus Punch (because I'm bad at prediction and I don't want it to be dead weight against metagross and also I'm lazy). My team is probably bad and I'm still on my lead zapdos shit (because it's good) and this is what I have so far and I think it's almost there https://pokepast.es/b9c629ff73817597

The main reason to use Focus Punch is to hit Skarmory if you have Magneton it’s largely redundant

Well you need to run Taunt in your lead moveset then... Maybe the following moveset could work?
Taunt
Hypnosis
Will o Wisp
Ice Punch / Explosion

You run double status to cripple the foes following your needs.

Taunt isn’t that good in general. You definitely want both Ice Punch and Explosion. This is the set I use.

Gengar (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 168 HP / 164 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hypnosis
- Ice Punch
- Explosion
- Will-O-Wisp

no pls, who wants to rely on 60% hypnosis acc just to eat a t wave or a lum rock slide from ttar... ur just asking to lose to bad hax... while landing a sleep once in 2 turns is 84% id rather not rely on a move that can screw my ass turn 1 if i miss it... god forbid if the lead is smth like lead meta, lum smeargle, t wave zapdos and its just gonna eat my ass... if i lead gar i might as well just say "fuck it" and run Destiny bond to guarantee a trade or use WoW on smth like mence, skarm, medicham,meta

Against Metagross just click Will-O-Wisp. Against Smeargle click Explosion if you're afraid of Lum Berry or missing a Hypnosis. Thunder Wave Zapdos isn’t dealing damage so it doesn’t really matter if you miss Hypnosis, also there's no reason to click Thunder Wave in the first place Thunderbolt is just better. Even if Gengar just burns something it allows you to go into a sweeper. Also 60% isn’t as bad as it sounds especially because of how busted sleep is.

252+ Atk Choice Band burned Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 209-247 (68.9 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I cannot fucking STAND jolteon and I don't want to put a fatass normal type or swampert on every ADV team I build but I guess I have no choice. How the fuck do you all deal with jolteon because I just can't figure it out unless my opponent is genuinely incompetent and leaves it in against magneton without sub (I run dual status)

Don't use Swampert vs Jolteon, Hidden Power Grass is used 54.212% of the time.
 
So I'm not entirely sure if this is the right place for this but I thought it would foster some discussion and I kinda like talking about stuff like this. Presenting my personal ADV OU Leads Tier List.

Before I start I just want to clarify some stuff. This is based on how much pressure they exert in the lead slot, how much it forces switches extremely early switches, and how often it is forced out itself. Zapdos, for example, while being forced out by ~4 of the leads in the tier immediately below it, exerts sufficient pressure on the rest of the pokemon here that I think it justifies its top slot.

So obviously you all know my thoughts on Zapdos, top 3 pokemon, best lead (in my opinion), barely suffers from 4mss, extremely hard to switch into, and can do almost whatever you want.

In the Really Good Leads tier, Skarmory is top dog, with Salamence and Tyranitar right behind him. It's an unordered tier after that.

Decent Leads is completely unordered but if I had to order the top 3 leads in this tier, it'd go Regirock Medicham Slaking

Matchup Fishing is ordered, with some pokemon that I haven't really seen in the lead slot present (Electrode specifically) but it does the same thing as Gardevoir but faster so I think it's a bit better.

Bad Leads are just leads that are not good at all. Forretress is probably a better lead than I'm giving it credit for and Raikou puts pressure on me specifically but overall you shouldn't have these in the lead slot.

Glalie is a shit lead stop using him.

Then we just have the tier you can ignore because I made this tier list using the viability ranking tier list and is full of irrelevant things. I probably should have put Starmie in Bad Leads and then named the bottom tier something else but it's too late. Anyway I'm honestly very interested in discussing the lead metagame and I hope this fosters some good discussion, even if it's just between me and one other person.
View attachment 634992

This is really cool! I just thought I'd chip in with a few things I noticed in the bottom tier. The following are all lesser common leads.

4-Attack Starmie: Has good lead mus and is great for chipping targets into range of your late game cleaner.
Arcanine: Has a number of lead sets with the most important difference being the HP. Fighting threatens tar, ice threatens mence, grass is the other common type. Fire stab threatens meta/skarm and out damages most zapdos sets. Can reliably knock common leads into e-speed range. Can run bulky/utility sets, phys, spec, or most commonly, mixed. Overheat + white herb and thief is underrated.
Offensive Milotic: Usually runs a modest nature with pump and beam + hypnosis and recover. Good lead MUs. Great way to start with momentum and pick up a cheeky sleep.
Endeavor Swellow: We all know the vapicuno team. Swellow subs, endeavours and BPs a starf berry boost to a teammate.
Slowbro: Niche, but works as a lead for special offense. Twave surf beam blast is the usual set, though its move pool is deep.
Wailord: One of the few water mons with boom. It is excellent at forcing out special walls and booming them. Usually a special offense lead.
Sleep Venusaur: Self-explanatory and very customizable. I've personally never used it so I can't comment on sets.
Typhlosion: You basically run the zard set or 4-attacks. The advantage is that you're neutral/resistant to bolt beam.

Those are all the sets that I see on ladder at least a reasonable amount, though they're all much much less common than the standard leads. But, they can be good if used correctly.

Other Leads That Are Bad But Do Exist:
Ludicolo has surprising lead mus and versatility, as does sceptile with a leech + 3 attack set or sub endev. Lead weezing is a thing on stall I think. Usually runs HP fight?

One last comment, but I do think your 'Bad Leads' and 'MU Fish' tiers are a bit crowded. CB molt lead exists and beats 2/3 of the standard leads. There have been recent innovations with lead Raikou, where it's run like a suicide lead without CM. In the MU Fish tier, I don't get the vaporeon, aero, or hera picks as they all have viable if not strong lead sets. HP fight aero, sub salac vape, CB jolly hera.

Ok one more and I swear I'm done. But that skarm is real high. I would put skarm lead somewhere near the mid-bottom, so I'm interested why you think it's so good.
 
Don't use Swampert vs Jolteon, Hidden Power Grass is used 54.212% of the time.
Every single jolteon I have ever seen has had HP Ice, low ladder players do not respect the existence of swampert.

Ok one more and I swear I'm done. But that skarm is real high. I would put skarm lead somewhere near the mid-bottom, so I'm interested why you think it's so good.
Lead Skarm will (almost) always survive a +Speed offensive Zapdos thunderbolt and get a spike off, combined with either the aforementioned wish support or just smart play you can very easily get that Skarm back to full. Against subdos it just whirlwinds turn 2 if it subs or switches turn 2 if it bolts. It's also not really scared of anything else the other leads can do to it barring jolteon which you still get a spike off in that scenario. I definitely agree that Skarm is nowhere near as high as second best lead in the tier but it's definitely one of the best leads in general.

One last comment, but I do think your 'Bad Leads' and 'MU Fish' tiers are a bit crowded. CB molt lead exists and beats 2/3 of the standard leads. There have been recent innovations with lead Raikou, where it's run like a suicide lead without CM. In the MU Fish tier, I don't get the vaporeon, aero, or hera picks as they all have viable if not strong lead sets. HP fight aero, sub salac vape, CB jolly hera.
So two things.
1. what the fuck do you mean BANDED MOLTRES
2. Lead Vaporeon, at least in my experience (and like I just noticed you mentioned), is always a salac passer and, barring crits as well as assuming just max HP investment, will always survive an offensive Zapdos thunderbolt regardless of nature. I could probably be convinced otherwise but lead speed passers are matchup fishers. Heracross definitely doesn't belong in the MU fish tier you are right on that but lead Aero does for both the HP fighting reason you mentioned as well as doing NOTHING to Skarmory and also not threatening out lead Salamence due to intimidate making rock slide a free* dragon dance which will almost immediately force something to either take heavy chip damage or give a free switch into something of your own.

*70% of the time it works all the time
 
So I've been recently using a monoclaw team (It's not been as horrible as you would think) and two mons in particular have really stood out that are not even on the VR.

:rs/banette:
Banette is a mon that is really, really good... Until they switch in skarmory in which case you have to act like they just roared you out. Of course, once skarm is out of the picture not much is switching in as really only swampert likes taking its hits, which even still is 4hit ko'd with one layer of spikes.
With quick claw specifically, it can be a surpisingly dangerous mon that can suprise kill many mons such as gengar that may think they can ko it once its taken damage. With max hp investment, banette is also quite bulky.
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def 30 IVs Banette: 265-312 (79.8 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah, even metagross meteor mash isn't an ohko, which means any other weaker hit (which is most) will never be ohko'ing. Destiny bond is especially dastardly, and at some points you can get 3 ko's in one match off some lucky quick claw procs. Body slam I find is good move for banette, being a good midground click to ensure something is going to be taking good damage and potentially getting para'd (they will not be switching in gengar as it has a chance to not get the 2hit ko if they are offensive while shadow ball OHKO's them cleanly).
Outside of the quick claw shenanigans, I feel like banette is a really good mon that can put in work a lot of the time. It's a really good wallbreaker that some teams struggle to switch into.

:rs/ursaring:
Ursaring was something I was less sure was going to work, but it more than made up for it. Now, why ursaring over snorlax? Four reasons.
1. Swords dance allows it to make itself a lot more threatening immediately.
2. 130 attack is a lot more threatening than lax's 110 attack, which can come up short on some targets.
3. Guts can make any status users such as skarmory, swampert and zapdos regret ever clicking that status move as now ursaring is basically unwallable
4. Lax has to run rest most of the time to get multiple boosts in order to sweep properly, while ursaring doesn't need to due to the other points. This means it can slot in both e-quake and hidden power ghost to hit both steel types/ttar and gengar for big damage.
Now, what about skarmory? That walls snorlax and it also walls ursaring right?
+2 252+ Atk Ursaring Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 136-161 (40.7 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 204-241 (61 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah, no. If you can get statused then even skarm can't switch in consistently, and if that doesn't happen then skarmory has to protect spam in order to actually do it somewhat consistently, which can be abused with another sd to hit it harder. If you somehow get two sd's and a status condition on ursaring (though that is nearly impossible), you can do this.
+4 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def 30 IVs Tyranitar: 379-447 (110.8 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yeah, a physical hit (which is resisted) OHKO'ing skarmory. Never thought that would happen. If even skarm struggles against this, not much else can take a hit. Swampert is cleanly OHKO'd by guts return, tyranitar takes 74% min, jirachi takes 62% min and I could go on and on about how nothing can take a hit from ursa, but we don't have all day. Basically, if ursa is supported right, it can be the most devestating mon in the tier. With quick claw on this team, it can stop any revenge kills from faster mons. But even without quick claw, I feel it can put in significant work on a game to game basis.

Of course, maybe my results are a bit skewed due to these mons being run with quick claw, but I feel like the contribute a lot to a team, and should be experimented with more.
 
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 204-241 (61 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah, no. If you can get statused then even skarm can't switch in consistently, and if that doesn't happen then skarmory has to protect spam in order to actually do it somewhat consistently, which can be abused with another sd to hit it harder. If you somehow get two sd's and a status condition on ursaring (though that is nearly impossible), you can do this.
+4 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def 30 IVs Tyranitar: 379-447 (110.8 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yeah, a physical hit (which is resisted) OHKO'ing skarmory. Never thought that would happen. If even skarm struggles against this, not much else can take a hit. Swampert is cleanly OHKO'd by guts return, tyranitar takes 74% min, jirachi takes 62% min
Do you see anything wrong with this...
Aside from the miscalcing (I think it's a roll at +4 guts to ohko skarm anyway) these other examples are +2 and guts, not just guts. Generally people aren't going to tox an ursaring and let it set up for free unless they are bad, and under sand, spikes, being toxed, and on top of all that no leftovers, you're almost certainly not going to survive long enough to get more than one ko.
 
does he know about the banded metagross explosion calcs (regirock is the only non ghost pokemon in the tier that survives (physdef skarmory isn't real))
Okay, yeah. Banded meta explosion is powerful, but you also have to kill yourself for that. For a resisted hit that doesn't go "My main goal is to blow up" to potentially OHKO skarm is insane. I don't think anything else does that.
Do you see anything wrong with this...
Aside from the miscalcing (I think it's a roll at +4 guts to ohko skarm anyway) these other examples are +2 and guts, not just guts. Generally people aren't going to tox an ursaring and let it set up for free unless they are bad, and under sand, spikes, being toxed, and on top of all that no leftovers, you're almost certainly not going to survive long enough to get more than one ko.
From what I've seen, yes, it is very possible to get +2 and guts. You are switching in on a predicted toxic, because nobody is going to be statusing a ursaring when its been revealed. But due to ursaring being very unpopular, most people throw out status moves willy nilly and don't think about the consequences. And the free setup turns are by you forcing out something that would be OHKO'd by guts ursaring.You are right that I did do the calc wrong lmao, its a roll to OHKO.
+4 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 306-361 (91.6 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
But a 50% chance to OHKO skarm is still a big thing. And I've found that you can get 2 ko's per game most of the time, as they usually underestimate the power of ursaring and switch their normal resistance in like skarm (who is often pressured by lots of common top mons) and then sniped from even 50% hp, which most would not expect it to take that hit. You then switch out on the revenge switch and then launch an attack on something that can't do much to you. The passive damage you take is big, but spinning is possible and can be done, as forretress, starmie, cloyster and claydol are all good spinners, which alleviates the issue of passive damage a bit.
 
(i don't know where else to post this, so please redirect me if there's a better area)

I just witnessed an endless battle take place in ADV OU. This replay shows a Porygon2 stalling a Dugtrio for hundreds of turns until the tie is forced. Analyzing the offender's team show that the following combination of Pokemon, moves, and items enables endless battles:
* Charm + Sand-attack Dugtrio (and theoretically Diglett)
* Trick
* a Pokemon with Trace + Recycle holding a Leppa Berry
 
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Something I didn't mention before is that banette is one of the hardest counters to breloom in the game. Insomonia means they can't even spore you like it can with gengar, while hidden power bug is an 8 hit ko, which is pathetic. The only way they can beat you is with the sub seed set (but they have to be at high health or already have a sub as shadow ball does 60% minimum) and the stun spore set, which still doesn't like taking a shadow ball and can't do much after the stun spore.
 
(i don't know where else to post this, so please redirect me if there's a better area)

I just witnessed an endless battle take place in ADV OU. This replay shows a Porygon2 stalling a Dugtrio for hundreds of turns until the tie is forced. Analyzing the offender's team show that the following combination of Pokemon, moves, and items enables endless battles:
* Charm + Sand-attack Dugtrio (and theoretically Diglett)
* Trick
* a Pokemon with Trace + Recycle holding a Leppa Berry

You can add Flash, and I think it first needs to trick lefties to ensure the Struggle will be infinite on the Dugtrio part. (Or Charm is enough?)

It reminds me the endless Wobuffet battles and it is disgusting to see. The first player could be discouraged to play for the rest of their life.
 
You can add Flash, and I think it first needs to trick lefties to ensure the Struggle will be infinite on the Dugtrio part. (Or Charm is enough?)

It reminds me the endless Wobuffet battles and it is disgusting to see. The first player could be discouraged to play for the rest of their life.
This shit might be exactly what we need to convince the smogon bureaucrats to fucking listen to the playerbase of this tier and actually put this shit under evasion clause. Someone build a consistent team ASAP because holy shit we finally found a concrete reason for tiering policy to be broken (other than the fact that ninjask is cringe and stupid)
 
Okay, yeah. Banded meta explosion is powerful, but you also have to kill yourself for that. For a resisted hit that doesn't go "My main goal is to blow up" to potentially OHKO skarm is insane. I don't think anything else does that.

From what I've seen, yes, it is very possible to get +2 and guts. You are switching in on a predicted toxic, because nobody is going to be statusing a ursaring when its been revealed. But due to ursaring being very unpopular, most people throw out status moves willy nilly and don't think about the consequences. And the free setup turns are by you forcing out something that would be OHKO'd by guts ursaring.You are right that I did do the calc wrong lmao, its a roll to OHKO.
+4 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 306-361 (91.6 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
But a 50% chance to OHKO skarm is still a big thing. And I've found that you can get 2 ko's per game most of the time, as they usually underestimate the power of ursaring and switch their normal resistance in like skarm (who is often pressured by lots of common top mons) and then sniped from even 50% hp, which most would not expect it to take that hit. You then switch out on the revenge switch and then launch an attack on something that can't do much to you. The passive damage you take is big, but spinning is possible and can be done, as forretress, starmie, cloyster and claydol are all good spinners, which alleviates the issue of passive damage a bit.
you definitely have nice fantasy and a good understanding of the game. Ursaring works very well, right now on 1650 elo with a nice team with him :)
 
Hello folks,
I didn't find the thread to simple question, simple answer, so I will ask it here...

Are there somewhere I can play pokémon using baton pass on gen3?
Are there the customgame tier to gen3? Or a Anythinggoes to gen3?
 
...

:rs/ursaring:
Yeah, a physical hit (which is resisted) OHKO'ing skarmory. Never thought that would happen.

Actually you can use Facade, and after only one Swords Dance, you can do 83-98% to Standard Sdef Skarmory.

But, If you want to laugh a bit more, you can always OHKO offensive Tyranitar and Choice Bander Metagross after only 1 layer of Spikes. Instead for Bulky DDtar versions, you "only" have 87% chances of OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes.

But in general, Return is a better option :)
 
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Hello folks,
I didn't find the thread to simple question, simple answer, so I will ask it here...

Are there somewhere I can play pokémon using baton pass on gen3?
Are there the customgame tier to gen3? Or a Anythinggoes to gen3?

There's isn't a ladder or anything but you can use this code to challenge someone to an ADV Custom Game that effectively simulates an AG tier.

/challenge [user],gen3customgame@@@Obtainable,Endless Battle Clause,Deoxys Camouflage Clause
 
(i don't know where else to post this, so please redirect me if there's a better area)

I just witnessed an endless battle take place in ADV OU. This replay shows a Porygon2 stalling a Dugtrio for hundreds of turns until the tie is forced. Analyzing the offender's team show that the following combination of Pokemon, moves, and items enables endless battles:
* Charm + Sand-attack Dugtrio (and theoretically Diglett)
* Trick
* a Pokemon with Trace + Recycle holding a Leppa Berry

I think that the community should consider banning the combination of Leppa Berry and Recycle in Gen III. In my battle, the opponent's Porygon2 could have won if it had used Sharpen/Curse with Return and Recover. Since my Dugtrio was trapped, had its lowest Attack and Accuracy and bad Speed, there was nothing stopping Porygon2 from setting up and then sweeping my team (the Pokémon I didn't reveal was Blissey, so a Ghost or a Steel Type were out of the question). On the other hand, if Porygon2 couldn't set up, then I was likely to win by ganging up on it.

Instead of winning or accepting his defeat, my opponent triggered and Endless Battle with the clear intention of tying after the turn limit of 1,000 was reached. If it weren't for the combination of Leppa Berry and Recycle, the strategy would have failed (Porygon2 would have ended without moves, then it would have killed Dugtrio with Struggle and then it would have been killed by my other five mons, after that, Skarmory would have been eaten alive by my team too). Imagine if this strategy happened on a big tournament or a live tournament, do you think it would be entertaining to watch or to play against?
 
isnt the simple solution banning sand attack? its an uncompetitive move (pure rng basis, which has been disallowed in the past when its not broken but just stupid eg cacturne) and is causing an infinite battle (infinite battle clause). its the lynchpin of two different very stupid things, and it itself is stupid, *and* its in line with tiering policy. IDK why sand attack is legal (even though its dogshit)
 
isnt the simple solution banning sand attack? its an uncompetitive move (pure rng basis, which has been disallowed in the past when its not broken but just stupid eg cacturne) and is causing an infinite battle (infinite battle clause). its the lynchpin of two different very stupid things, and it itself is stupid, *and* its in line with tiering policy. IDK why sand attack is legal (even though its dogshit)
Mmm, it could be another possible solution.
 
Trapping with sand attack is very fun and balanced. Achieved 1470 on the ladder and was trending higher before being stopped. Not sure why accuracy lowering moves are legal in the first place since they just enable stuff like this. Its super easy to set up and I could see it being optimal in team tournaments where the player just needs a tie to win the week.

Endless Gaming Moments:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141693301?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141672059
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141927232?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141577316
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141587163?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141629427
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141607436
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141479174
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141556029?p2
+ many more

For educational purposes (I don't endorse using it)
https://pokepast.es/2a6395e8f0e586b9
 
Trapping with sand attack is very fun and balanced. Achieved 1470 on the ladder and was trending higher before being stopped. Not sure why accuracy lowering moves are legal in the first place since they just enable stuff like this. Its super easy to set up and I could see it being optimal in team tournaments where the player just needs a tie to win the week.

Endless Gaming Moments:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141693301?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141672059
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141927232?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141577316
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141587163?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141629427
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141607436
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141479174
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2141556029?p2
+ many more

For educational purposes (I don't endorse using it)
https://pokepast.es/2a6395e8f0e586b9

Endless Battle Clause: Forcing endless battles is banned

^ that is part of every Smogon ruleset. If your opponent reports you for using this strategy on the ladder, you will get DQ’d. If you bring this to a tournament, you will automatically lose.

This is not really a tiering question at all, but moreso if we can find a way to more proactively enforce the Endless Battle Clause for these cases which I can try to look into. This whole thing isn’t limited to Sand Attack either, it could also be forced by paralysing and trapping a mon with limited attacking pp although it’s obviously a little harder that way / maybe requires more luck. Regardless, intentionally forcing endless battles is already against the rules and not a concern in tournaments. For now, on the ladder, I’d encourage ppl to just report opponents who use this if they’d like to save some time and enjoy free ELO.
 
Endless Battle Clause: Forcing endless battles is banned

^ that is part of every Smogon ruleset. If your opponent reports you for using this strategy on the ladder, you will get DQ’d. If you bring this to a tournament, you will automatically lose.

This is not really a tiering question at all, but moreso if we can find a way to more proactively enforce the Endless Battle Clause for these cases which I can try to look into. This whole thing isn’t limited to Sand Attack either, it could also be forced by paralysing and trapping a mon with limited attacking pp although it’s obviously a little harder that way / maybe requires more luck. Regardless, intentionally forcing endless battles is already against the rules and not a concern in tournaments. For now, on the ladder, I’d encourage ppl to just report opponents who use this if they’d like to save some time and enjoy free ELO.
The purpose of the endless battle clause is to dictate what strategies result in a auto loss if the game becomes endless. Funbro is a strategy that is included in the clause and will result in the funbro player losing no intervention needed from mods. Doubling with regenerator pokemon vs a team that cant out damage it is not included in the clause and the result is a tie no intervention needed from mods.

Every other generation has this under control where every possible game state is legal and the outcome is determined by the endless battle. This is an ADV problem since it is now the only OU gen that requires a moderator to moderate the battle manually. A solution is needed to where every game state in a battle is legal and the outcome is determined by clauses (or disallowed from entering battle by the team validator).

You say that sand attack has nothing to do with this but in reality its the difference between this strategy being reliable and being substantially harder to do. Yes getting paralyzed 1000 times in a row is possible and could be endless, and in that event the game should be a tie. By requiring a moderator to determine the outcome of a battle how would you define the following scenarios:

1. Dugtrio is paralyzed along with a ttar who is paralyzed and they both keep getting paralyzed to the turn limit. The dugtrio player could switch but chooses not too since he has a unwinnable matchup and the best outcome is the 0.00000...1% chance he ties. Is the dugtrio player forcing an endless battle? (most tiers say no, in adv who knows?)

2. Lets say someone has a "legit" team with sand attack leftovers dugtrio and magneton, and they are also able to get a jirachi to struggle and switch loop it. Their best outcome is to go for a tie as the remaining pokemon on the jirachi team easily win are we asking them to not play optimally in this scenario?

Imo its very weird to ask a player to not play a battle optimally even if it involves going for a tie. Stalemates arent illegal to go for in chess and the endless battle clause with clearly defined rules for who wins and loses should not be illegal to go for as well.

The best way to stop this is to ban having two trapping mons (trace included) with leftovers in the teambuilder but that is a very weird complex ban. Could also ban double trapping but some mag + dug teams are viable. Sandattack/mud slap/flash is what enables it in the first place to be reliable though and should be banned anyways.
 
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