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Would you play on a Smogon server if they had one on Shoddy?
- Thread starter CLegacyM
- Start date
I don't know the opinion of the moderation here... but shouldn't the first question be "Who is willing to administer the Smogon Server" ?? If that is taken care of already, then I apologize.
Nonetheless, I see clear benefits of a Smogon server itself. Name recognition, room for automatic log collection (for tournaments), and possible customization of code so that Tournaments could be much more easily run. Something like a "Find" feature on the Smogon ladder, except for official smogon tournaments seems possible in theory (ignoring the question of who will program Smogon to do that for the moment). Further, arbitrary statistics can be automatically integrated to the Smogon website, which is also a bonus.
For the userbase, name recognition is a big one. Also the possibility of user battle statistics and other such information excites me. I admit however that I don't know how much programming effort would be needed to collect these statistics (Glicko2 rating, win/loss vs specific battlers, etc. etc.). These things however become theoretically possible when Smogon has an official server, opening room for niceties for this competitive community.
Of course, all this may be moot if Competitor comes out tomorrow. In the end, I don't think this is something the Smogon community can decide. Only the moderation has the authority to create an official smogon server, and in addition they are the only ones who have a chance of prodding the Competitor staff to see if this is a worthwhile endeavor.
Nonetheless, I see clear benefits of a Smogon server itself. Name recognition, room for automatic log collection (for tournaments), and possible customization of code so that Tournaments could be much more easily run. Something like a "Find" feature on the Smogon ladder, except for official smogon tournaments seems possible in theory (ignoring the question of who will program Smogon to do that for the moment). Further, arbitrary statistics can be automatically integrated to the Smogon website, which is also a bonus.
For the userbase, name recognition is a big one. Also the possibility of user battle statistics and other such information excites me. I admit however that I don't know how much programming effort would be needed to collect these statistics (Glicko2 rating, win/loss vs specific battlers, etc. etc.). These things however become theoretically possible when Smogon has an official server, opening room for niceties for this competitive community.
Of course, all this may be moot if Competitor comes out tomorrow. In the end, I don't think this is something the Smogon community can decide. Only the moderation has the authority to create an official smogon server, and in addition they are the only ones who have a chance of prodding the Competitor staff to see if this is a worthwhile endeavor.
I think smogon should have a server. It's way more fun to be on a server that actually belongs to a community.
The server could be deleted if competitor comes out, to improve the popularity of that sim.
The server could be deleted if competitor comes out, to improve the popularity of that sim.
CLegacyM said:
Now this is exactly why I have a problem with you. All of your topics seem to be discussing pokemon in some way, even if you mask them in the guise of something else. Don't scream at me, "This is a pokemon site, you don't want me to discuss pokemon!?" What you're saying, to me, is that you want a server where people like-minded to you will run things, so that you can keep the metagame the way you like it. You're just one of the people blind to any sort of change, clear by your opinion that Deoxys is uncounterable and leads to stall wars. That said, I hate Wobbuffet.
On topic, I think a smogon server would be counter-productive in the long run. At first, the only people there would be "renowned" smogonites. I'd be there, forbidden, DDR, Deck Knight, Lord_Sunday and some other big names around Wi-Fi and Stark Mountain would show up. It'd be a gay ol' time. Then some lesser known users would show up. I don't know any of them, but they would come. Then we'd get the noobs who want to be involved. Once that user bar goes over 50, however, we'd get every shoddy user and their mothers wanting to come try it out, and it would become as bad as the Official Server. Just look at Doug's server. Out of the record 90 people that show up from time to time, only half of them know what Syclant is, and only half of that half know because they participated in it's creation.
Just wait until Competitor.
I like you.
Seriously my only problem with Shoddy main server is the damn Wobbuffet and Deoxys Speed total SPAM.
It pisses me off to have my team, built for OU, get raped by crap thats nearly uncounterable.
You guys do realize that the testing of DX-S and Wobbuffet originated largely from Smogon tournaments, threads and discussions from staff members, right? If Competitor were in full swing now they would likely be undergoing a similar test...
Honestly, not if it were run by the Stark Mountain guys. Having random ass Grachomp bans, Darkrai allowances, and stuff wouldn't be cool. Official Serve is great; it's got great mods and forcing everybody to test things is the only way to really do it and they figured that out. Plus... yeah.
It definitely seems to me that the only reasons people are supporting a smogon server are 1) name recognition and 2) no Colin (why people have a problem with him, I don't know).
Now, there are two solutions to this. One is you use your smogon name on the Official Server, and two is that you wait for competitor. Either way, stop complaining about the tiers. Pokemon was made to evolve (no pun intended), and that's what the metagame is doing.
Now, there are two solutions to this. One is you use your smogon name on the Official Server, and two is that you wait for competitor. Either way, stop complaining about the tiers. Pokemon was made to evolve (no pun intended), and that's what the metagame is doing.
Firstly, it isn't, secondly, it wouldn't be undergoing a test like that, as every sane person knows that Deoxys-E and Wobbufet and Wynaut do not belong in OU. They were ubers in advance and I don't see any reason why they would be less uber in D/P. Statistics can't determine a metagame, otherwise Chansey would've been UU by now. Most people on smogon, or any other sane competitive pokemon site for that matter, probably agree on this.
I have never met Colin personally, but I hate the way he doesn't hesitate to unban random crap. Its not too bad playing vs Deoxys and Wobbuffet, but its just a pain in the ass...
While Deoxys-E and Wobbuffet don't belong in OU in my opinion, tests don't hurt anything. My only issue is that there isn't a way to play ladder without them, and how the public is forced into testing.
Chansey would be extremely broken in UU, and it would trash the diversity in the metagame. Have you ever played UU?
Since this is obviously the point of this thread, why is it even open?
I personally would love a smogon server because smogon uses logic versus statistics. I'm tired of Colin saying "well look... Wobb isnt used as much as Blissey! If we were to ban something, it would be her!" That is ridiculous. Even though he probably has no intention in banning Blissey this seems to be their view and I dont like it. Im tired of using the ladder system then seeing Deoxys-E and Wobb. I felt like pulling my damn hair out and it detours me from actually playing the game more often that I would like to.
either way though smogon doenst officially need a server, just someone with some intelligence from the smogon community (not just your average poster) to make a server and see how it pans out. That is my suggestion.
either way though smogon doenst officially need a server, just someone with some intelligence from the smogon community (not just your average poster) to make a server and see how it pans out. That is my suggestion.
I would enjoy a Smogon server on Shoddy knowing that in theory you can test against the best. However, I only see one reason why Smogon would use their own server; being able to ladder knowing there's no Deoxys or Wobbuffet. Is that reason alone really worth the effort into creating and maintaining one up?
Personally, I don't think so. When the Official Server is near enough perfect for me anyways.
It has been brilliant learning a metagame through Shoddy. My respect goes out to Colin and others for their hard work. Though, with Competitor in progress, Smogon will have their server there. That is in time, and I can't wait for it.
Shoddy is the beginning of a fantastic generation with many suprises around the corner.
Personally, I don't think so. When the Official Server is near enough perfect for me anyways.
It has been brilliant learning a metagame through Shoddy. My respect goes out to Colin and others for their hard work. Though, with Competitor in progress, Smogon will have their server there. That is in time, and I can't wait for it.
Shoddy is the beginning of a fantastic generation with many suprises around the corner.
Dude, no offense, but this kind of post is the reason that this thread is rated 1 star.
You don't speak for everyone, and the kind of crap you were talking about in that post makes you sound like you've been playing DP for 3 days or something.
We had a poll for Deoxys-S a while ago. Over 50% of people voted to say that it should be unbanned. Are you saying that over 50% of people on smogon are insane? There's also been a lot of people that believed that Wobbuffet should be unbanned, so it's being tested. Are all those people insane too?
Just because something was uber in ADV, that sure as hell doesn't mean that it's uber in DP. If you don't see how they could be any less uber, then maybe you should actually prove that instead of just spouting theorymon.
Statistics do determine a metagame, because the less something is used, the worse the pokemon tends to be. Obviously Chansey isn't UU, because everyone decided that it wasn't allowed, and there were pretty much no supporters. If there was a lot of supporters to say that it was distinct from Blissey to be allowed in UU, then people would test it, but if there's no support, people obviously won't test it.
Yeah, so I don't know who you think you are saying that smogon's insane since DX-S had more supporters than opposers, and that Wobbuffet had supporters too.
I also really don't know why you're telling Jumpman16 that there wouldn't be tests like this on competitor if it was out right now, when he evidently knows a lot more about competitor than you, and pokemon in general.
I've never said anything like this. I have never said that if something is used more it is better than something that is used less. Nor have I said the reverse. Maybe somebody's said that, but it wasn't me, and that reasoning does not underscore the method I have been advocating.
What I have actually advocated is unbanning the pokemon, and then checking if the game has become more centralised, which we can determine by considering: the number of pokemon that comprise the top X% of usages; and the number of moves which comprise the top X% of each pokemon's move usages (though I haven't written the script that will check this yet). What this does is gives us -- as a matter of fact -- whether the pokemon has centralised the metagame. This is what I have been advocating and it is completely sound. I was intending on writing a more full presentation of this empirical method at the start of March, but consider this a bit of a preview.
One objection that often comes up is: "Well maybe the pokemon isn't centralising because of X, Y, and Z and therefore it's still uber". Often X, Y, and Z take the form of social taboos. These people like to think of the Shoddy Battle ladder as just an approximation of a theoretical metagame where everybody is using the best sets on each pokemon, and the best pokemon. But the mistake here is that there is no reason to believe such a theoretical metagame exists: it is more likely that the metagame will in fact fluctuate endlessly, rather than approach a final "limit" as the best sets are discovered.
So how do I counter this problem? Instead of viewing "uberness" as an intrinsic property of pokemon, I consider it a function of the pokemon and the metagame it is being used in. There are some metagames where pokemon we now consider uber would not be uber. They are uber in our metagame, however. Rather than viewing an uber list as something that we discover and then let sit, I think it should be viewed as something that can be periodically revised as the metagame shifts.
Does the metagame actually fluctuate enough to warrant revisions? Probably not. But it might, and if factors X, Y, and Z are currently causing Wobbuffet not to be uber, then when those factors cease to exist it will be uber and it can be banned then.
As I said, this is just a preview of something larger I wanted to develop later, but it's become necessary to comment on ridiculous strawmen.
As long as wobbufette and deoxys-S were banned, then yes, I would play on an official smogon server, assuming a good number of other people did. The same holds true for any server with a ladder banning these pokemon that had a substantial number of players. However, a smogon server is never going to happen, even though I'm starting to doubt that competitor even exists, it's probably just some great urban legend prank the moderators are playing D:
my main point is that just because something isn't used as much doesn't make it not "uber" still. I apologize if I offended you but that was the impression I got when ever it was in discussion. And I have a theory in why it isn't centralized in the metagame and its simply is because it isn't accepted yet. Most respectable players have the same mind frame that the pokemon is cheap and stay clear of it. If people didn't frown on it and therefore got more use, centralizing the metagame, then I think we might actually come to a conclusion (even if we don't need any, I think last generation serves as a template from last and it told us Wobb needed to be a banned deucer).
as for Smogon getting their own server I take back what I said before. If we want a wobbless game I guess all we have to do is just challenge ppl we know, just wish we had some way to play random ppl like on the Ladder and not have to play against Wobbs/Deoxys-e.
as for Smogon getting their own server I take back what I said before. If we want a wobbless game I guess all we have to do is just challenge ppl we know, just wish we had some way to play random ppl like on the Ladder and not have to play against Wobbs/Deoxys-e.