Sinistcha is a rising star in that role. Very good as a spinblocker and wincon on bulky balance teams. Checks Waterpon, Tusk, Lando, Zama and more.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
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Sinistcha is a rising star in that role. Very good as a spinblocker and wincon on bulky balance teams. Checks Waterpon, Tusk, Lando, Zama and more.
Y'know, its easy to forget Dragonite is even an OU Pokemon given how little its talked about here, but I wanna give a big shout out to our boy. Its Tera Normal ESpeed is holding the tier together against all these BS random cheese sweepers you'll find on ladder + sun that are extremely difficult to not autolose against with certain (bad) comps I like to build. It doesn't do well vs bulky comps, but against everyone's least favorite mons like Darkrai, Roaring Moon, and Ogerpon-Wellspring, its one of the most reliable ally's for sure (though watch out for the occasional Tera Ghost).
As for some other hot topics, there is a lot of complaining about Darkrai and Ogerpon-W which I am split on. On one hand, I really don't like facing these Pokemon (Ogerpon-W moreso than Darkrai) because of how fast they are, their good bulk, and how simple it can be for them to deal massive damage to some more sus team-comps (typically the ones I build) with the slightest bit of positioning and effort. On the other hand, while I do find these Pokemon annoying, they also are arguably the biggest limiters of Pokemon I find similarly problematic, mainly GKing and Mola. My primary concern in the aftermath of a Darkral / Wellspring ban is that the tier will turn into Gking Mola simulator & we'll likely ban other Pokemon that these Pokemon can enable (Kyurem and Ursaluna are my main concerns, though there are a lot of other Pokemon that fall into this umbrella). While their positioning capabilities do enable a lot of otherwise subpar Pokemon, I also find them able to invalidate a lot of Pokemon as well if played correctly.
Actually a Darkrai + Waterpon ban means our goat Meow goes back to being top cat. Maybe it is neccessary after all....
Some talk about Ghold lately, which I kinda get. NP Balloon can be annoying to wall esp given it has recovery. That being said, as a Ghold user on non-cheese team structs, I find it to be a bit meh and prone to getting cheesed. Its very difficult to fit all of Ghold, Priority, speed control, hazards, Unaware, etc. onto a single team that doesn't feel match-up fishy + weak to the random setup sweepers that you'll see on ladder + Sun. I do see the appeal since it is really customizable and versatile with a lot of options like T-bolt, T-Wave, Hex, Focus Blast, etc + a number of options in its item slot, but it doesn't feel like it'll contribute on a consistent basis compared to a few other mons. Maybe the tech is running it on a team with Dragonite or Dozo since I haven't actually used those combinations this DLC & it could be effective.
Been liking Gliscor a lot more lately. That being said, I've given up running the utility set on non-stall teams. You wind up having 24MSS + still lose to half of the shit you wanna check anyways like Raging Bolt. Other players probably can successfully pilot this set, but I'm not one of them. That being said, SD is significantly easier to use set and also a fantastic Tera user. There is a notion that SD Gliscor is a fat fish, which is fair, but I've found it to be quite effective against a wider variety of playstyles such as Sun and Bulky offense since gliscor can score some good setup oppurtunities vs a few key Pokemon such as Torkoal and gets good mileage out of Protect + Tera to grab more setup oppurtunities. Its also pretty customizable too, with a good amount of moveset options, EV spreads, and Teras it can run. An arguement can be made that SD Gliscor is one of the best Tera users in the tier, which I can't exactly dispute given its potential payoffs.
Cinderace is a bit better than I give it credit for. Good speed, passable hazard control, and fake priority give it a lot of role compression even if it feels like its barely making progress vs the likes of Garganacl, Gliscor, and Mola while also getting out offensed by a few other guys. It may be severely flawed, but any Pokemon that makes Webs players cry is my friend.
Weavile has been a dissappointment. There are a few moments where it feels like Lebron, but then you miss Triple Axel against Gliscor as they Toxic + Protect and its the worst mon ever. Priority Shard is cool, but isn't as strong as you'd like vs Moon and friends + it arguably hates opposing Pokemon using Tera the most because of its fragility. Its happened time and again where I use Weavile as a form of speed control and it winds up failing its job because the opponent Teras, survives the hit, and KOes it back (usually happens paired with a Triple Axel miss). Also Mola is a big pain in the ass. It might be better in the hands of more skilled players than myself, perhaps with better optimized sets, Teras, and other items like Choice Band or Life Orb. Facing CB Weavile a few times has been a bit scary from my experirence. I did expirement a few times with meme sets like Tera Blast Electric SD, but it did not impress me much. In my case, issue might have been part of the team comps I've been using it on as well since there wasn't much in the way of support, with other mons helping it in the effort to weaken the opponent - rather it relied moreso on pivots to bring it in.
As for some other hot topics, there is a lot of complaining about Darkrai and Ogerpon-W which I am split on. On one hand, I really don't like facing these Pokemon (Ogerpon-W moreso than Darkrai) because of how fast they are, their good bulk, and how simple it can be for them to deal massive damage to some more sus team-comps (typically the ones I build) with the slightest bit of positioning and effort. On the other hand, while I do find these Pokemon annoying, they also are arguably the biggest limiters of Pokemon I find similarly problematic, mainly GKing and Mola. My primary concern in the aftermath of a Darkral / Wellspring ban is that the tier will turn into Gking Mola simulator & we'll likely ban other Pokemon that these Pokemon can enable (Kyurem and Ursaluna are my main concerns, though there are a lot of other Pokemon that fall into this umbrella). While their positioning capabilities do enable a lot of otherwise subpar Pokemon, I also find them able to invalidate a lot of Pokemon as well if played correctly.
Actually a Darkrai + Waterpon ban means our goat Meow goes back to being top cat. Maybe it is neccessary after all....
Some talk about Ghold lately, which I kinda get. NP Balloon can be annoying to wall esp given it has recovery. That being said, as a Ghold user on non-cheese team structs, I find it to be a bit meh and prone to getting cheesed. Its very difficult to fit all of Ghold, Priority, speed control, hazards, Unaware, etc. onto a single team that doesn't feel match-up fishy + weak to the random setup sweepers that you'll see on ladder + Sun. I do see the appeal since it is really customizable and versatile with a lot of options like T-bolt, T-Wave, Hex, Focus Blast, etc + a number of options in its item slot, but it doesn't feel like it'll contribute on a consistent basis compared to a few other mons. Maybe the tech is running it on a team with Dragonite or Dozo since I haven't actually used those combinations this DLC & it could be effective.
Been liking Gliscor a lot more lately. That being said, I've given up running the utility set on non-stall teams. You wind up having 24MSS + still lose to half of the shit you wanna check anyways like Raging Bolt. Other players probably can successfully pilot this set, but I'm not one of them. That being said, SD is significantly easier to use set and also a fantastic Tera user. There is a notion that SD Gliscor is a fat fish, which is fair, but I've found it to be quite effective against a wider variety of playstyles such as Sun and Bulky offense since gliscor can score some good setup oppurtunities vs a few key Pokemon such as Torkoal and gets good mileage out of Protect + Tera to grab more setup oppurtunities. Its also pretty customizable too, with a good amount of moveset options, EV spreads, and Teras it can run. An arguement can be made that SD Gliscor is one of the best Tera users in the tier, which I can't exactly dispute given its potential payoffs.
Cinderace is a bit better than I give it credit for. Good speed, passable hazard control, and fake priority give it a lot of role compression even if it feels like its barely making progress vs the likes of Garganacl, Gliscor, and Mola while also getting out offensed by a few other guys. It may be severely flawed, but any Pokemon that makes Webs players cry is my friend.
Weavile has been a dissappointment. There are a few moments where it feels like Lebron, but then you miss Triple Axel against Gliscor as they Toxic + Protect and its the worst mon ever. Priority Shard is cool, but isn't as strong as you'd like vs Moon and friends + it arguably hates opposing Pokemon using Tera the most because of its fragility. Its happened time and again where I use Weavile as a form of speed control and it winds up failing its job because the opponent Teras, survives the hit, and KOes it back (usually happens paired with a Triple Axel miss). Also Mola is a big pain in the ass. It might be better in the hands of more skilled players than myself, perhaps with better optimized sets, Teras, and other items like Choice Band or Life Orb. Facing CB Weavile a few times has been a bit scary from my experirence. I did expirement a few times with meme sets like Tera Blast Electric SD, but it did not impress me much. In my case, issue might have been part of the team comps I've been using it on as well since there wasn't much in the way of support, with other mons helping it in the effort to weaken the opponent - rather it relied moreso on pivots to bring it in.
This gen, I kinda like running Life Orb on things conventional sense suggest I shouldn't. I just like the combination of power that is close to band, not restricted to a single typing, and also being able to switch moves. I have had success running LO on D-nite, Ceruledge, and Kyurem. And if you don't think any of those things should work, well, I can explain to you why they actually do. LO D-nite only needs a single DD to get where most others need 2, meaning it often only needs the one turn of setup multiscale provides it. Ceruledge heals up with more powerful Bitter Blade and becomes a bigger problem with Shadow Sneak. Kyurem gets near Choice Specs power but can actually switch moves, making it even more of a pain to wall.
The latest thing I have tried with LO is Weavile, which is hilarious in both a good and bad way. It's surprisingly good against a lot of teams. You can anti-lead a lot of the meta. You 1HKO sash mons like Glimm or Ribombee, and you have more powerful knocks than people expect, and you can still change up moves if they switch around. You don't do well against lead Hamurott, though. You also are hilariously vulnerable to Rocky Helmet with that and LO chip. So you have to be really careful.
I was thinking maybe Never-Melt Ice would be a safer item so you could still boost the Triple Axel and Ice Shard, maybe with Tera Ice. But I haven't run enough Calcs to figure out if the damage you're losing on non-Ice moves is important enough. Most people run HDB on Weavile anyways, but personally, I don't believe in that. I make it a personal rule to only run one HDB per team at most.
Speaking of not running HDB on mons that conventional wisdom will tell you need it, I've tried running Rocky Helmet Moltres. The thing is beastly the way it just denies many of the prominent physical attackers like Gambit, Zama, Weavile, Meow, Tusk, and Ace. And the reason why this isn't crazy is because Moltres is gonna want to take a decent amount of Knock Offs anyways with Flame Body and its physical profile. So running it on a team without hazard clear support, even with HDB, is like playing 5 on 6 if they ever put up rocks. Why would you ever do that? Just put proper hazard support on the team and run a real item. It isn't like Volc where you can just come in once and threaten a sweep.
And since I've gone there already, I'll just say it. Hazard clear options this gen are vastly underrated. You can often fit one main option like Tusk, Treads, or Corv and a secondary option like Hatt, Ace, or Glimm on the same team without too much compromise unless you are stall. There are also niche options such as Geezing, Talonflame, or Maushold can all deal with Ghold. I've also been meaning to look into Cyclizar as a spinner again ever since I discovered the mixed LO set (yes, another LO set) I briefly experimented with could 1HKO Ghold in two different ways.
Ghold is a red herring for hazard removal which, except for Corv who U-turns, all available ones can either hit Ghold hard supereffectively or directly bypass its ability like Geezing, or both like Ace. Gliscor was a red herring for Spikes, which is the real problem with hazards this gen. The rest of the hazards are basically balanced for gen 9 standards. The worst hazard related problem isn't a pokemon, but if it was, it would be Hamurott since it bypasses Hatt and the fast Taunt anti-leads that would otherwise be enough to shut hazards down. I have done a silly amount of research into trying to find an anti-lead that hits all of Glimm, Ribombee, and Hamurott, and something related to one of the mons always ruins it. However, most of the time it's Hamurott which ruins it. I do not think that Hamurott is OP per say, but I do think that Ceaseless Edge is highly underrated for how genuinely unhealthy it is for the meta.
The latest thing I have tried with LO is Weavile, which is hilarious in both a good and bad way. It's surprisingly good against a lot of teams. You can anti-lead a lot of the meta. You 1HKO sash mons like Glimm or Ribombee, and you have more powerful knocks than people expect, and you can still change up moves if they switch around. You don't do well against lead Hamurott, though. You also are hilariously vulnerable to Rocky Helmet with that and LO chip. So you have to be really careful.
I was thinking maybe Never-Melt Ice would be a safer item so you could still boost the Triple Axel and Ice Shard, maybe with Tera Ice. But I haven't run enough Calcs to figure out if the damage you're losing on non-Ice moves is important enough. Most people run HDB on Weavile anyways, but personally, I don't believe in that. I make it a personal rule to only run one HDB per team at most.
Speaking of not running HDB on mons that conventional wisdom will tell you need it, I've tried running Rocky Helmet Moltres. The thing is beastly the way it just denies many of the prominent physical attackers like Gambit, Zama, Weavile, Meow, Tusk, and Ace. And the reason why this isn't crazy is because Moltres is gonna want to take a decent amount of Knock Offs anyways with Flame Body and its physical profile. So running it on a team without hazard clear support, even with HDB, is like playing 5 on 6 if they ever put up rocks. Why would you ever do that? Just put proper hazard support on the team and run a real item. It isn't like Volc where you can just come in once and threaten a sweep.
And since I've gone there already, I'll just say it. Hazard clear options this gen are vastly underrated. You can often fit one main option like Tusk, Treads, or Corv and a secondary option like Hatt, Ace, or Glimm on the same team without too much compromise unless you are stall. There are also niche options such as Geezing, Talonflame, or Maushold can all deal with Ghold. I've also been meaning to look into Cyclizar as a spinner again ever since I discovered the mixed LO set (yes, another LO set) I briefly experimented with could 1HKO Ghold in two different ways.
Ghold is a red herring for hazard removal which, except for Corv who U-turns, all available ones can either hit Ghold hard supereffectively or directly bypass its ability like Geezing, or both like Ace. Gliscor was a red herring for Spikes, which is the real problem with hazards this gen. The rest of the hazards are basically balanced for gen 9 standards. The worst hazard related problem isn't a pokemon, but if it was, it would be Hamurott since it bypasses Hatt and the fast Taunt anti-leads that would otherwise be enough to shut hazards down. I have done a silly amount of research into trying to find an anti-lead that hits all of Glimm, Ribombee, and Hamurott, and something related to one of the mons always ruins it. However, most of the time it's Hamurott which ruins it. I do not think that Hamurott is OP per say, but I do think that Ceaseless Edge is highly underrated for how genuinely unhealthy it is for the meta.
Low ladder Alt messing around.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2139894179
This is the most fun ive had with a gimmick team in so long. self poison tech is CRAZY + scarf ghold because its broken.
If i had to comment on its effectiveness, conkeldurr is mainly clicking mach punch. It could definitely be swapped for heracross or even belly drum hariyama with bullet punch if youre really nasty. otherwise it works great. i did see a certain poketuber use a team like this but they had gliscor and thats too much messing around + it requires commiting to tera or gravity to work.
Meowscarada @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Trick
- Flower Trick
- U-turn
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Court Change
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot
Ursaluna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Headlong Rush
- Close Combat
- Trailblaze
Conkeldurr @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
Zangoose @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Toxic Boost
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Quick Attack
Gholdengo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 44 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain
- Recover
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Trick
- Flower Trick
- U-turn
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Court Change
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot
Ursaluna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Headlong Rush
- Close Combat
- Trailblaze
Conkeldurr @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
Zangoose @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Toxic Boost
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Quick Attack
Gholdengo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 44 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain
- Recover
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2139894179
This is the most fun ive had with a gimmick team in so long. self poison tech is CRAZY + scarf ghold because its broken.
If i had to comment on its effectiveness, conkeldurr is mainly clicking mach punch. It could definitely be swapped for heracross or even belly drum hariyama with bullet punch if youre really nasty. otherwise it works great. i did see a certain poketuber use a team like this but they had gliscor and thats too much messing around + it requires commiting to tera or gravity to work.
bruv you've reminded me when i tried to cook Webs + Court Change + Gravity + Enam Empoleon and Serp, only to find out midgame that that got patched in Gen 8 and you don't get a speed boost that way anymore
I find it funny that people are really asking this dumb question of why is Weavile is going to fall down to UU, oh it's better that Meow. It's faster and hit harder and Tera Ice is so good. Geez people Idk, maybe look at the mon that is number 3 in usage. Oh who could that be. Zamazenta ding ding ding. It's like people forgot Zama exists in this tier lol . Weavile can't do shit to Zama at all. It's slower that Zama and has nothing that can hit Zama super effective. At least with Meow, it can run Scarf, has stab Play Rough which can hit decently into Zama, has Flower Trick which doesn't care about ID Zama which can do a decent chunk, not too much but does something at least. That is the reason why Weavile is going to fall down to UU because it can't beat Zama 1 vs 1 and Zama is literally in almost every team now so there's your answers you crybabies.
Yo chill cowboy we surrender
yeah good luck fitting Play Rough lmao. Stabs+U+Turn and then Meow wants Triple Axel which leaves no room for it, and at that point it is just worse Weavile offensively. Weavile already cripples Zama with Knock Off which greatly limits its longevity and afterwards, is able to slam it with Triple Axel when Zama tries to switch into it again later. Scarf Meow is piss weak so often and it hates getting locked into the wrong move (which is very easy to do) as well as being a very hazard weak pokemon.
Also lol @ "can't beat Zama 1 on 1" as if not having the best match up into just one pokemon is a hindrance. Weavile has a great match up into many other pokemon in the tier and is great speed control.
I have a post coming out about Weavile
But I wanna quickly address this. Zama doesn’t like eating Knock and it’s very easy to chip it down along with hazards. You can also just pair Weavile with partners like Helmet Lando, Gking, and Ghold that all exploit Zama. Without the Dauntless Boost, Zama isn’t switching in very well.
252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 152-183 (39.1 - 47.1%) -- approx. 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I don’t like this take because Zama is not anywhere near an issue for Weavile with proper teambuilding.
“lol it dropped cause Zama 1v1s it”
Wanna know what else Zama 1v1s?
The Literal Number 1 Pokemon In The Tier, Kingambit
Yeah, and how is meowscarada doing any more to zamazenta than weavile is? Like, meow is doing about 6% more damage on average with flower trick compared to weavile's triple axel. Which is not a lot. Meow's scarf set is decent, but it isn't beating zama at all, and good luck fitting play rough into meow's moveset. Like, you can maybe drop u-turn (I have been able to in order to put spikes on it, something which is unique for it), but you ain't even 2hit ko'ing zama with it. And even dropping u-turn is difficult and even in my testing you can feel the impact.
252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Play Rough vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 144-170 (37.1 - 43.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And a mon losing to zama isn't the end of the world, many tops mons lose to zama such as gambit or tusk, and yet they are still top tier mons. Weavile at the very least has higher speed and much more power, which means it can clean up more games than meowscarada in combination with sd to make itself a lot more threatening and a priority move in ice shard (meow technically has sucker punch but that's extremely difficult to fit in to its moveset).
Don't know why you decided to be rude because people are wondering why a genuinelly good mon is potentially dropping. Zama is something that weavile somewhat doesn't like (though zama doesn't like weavile) but its not the reason why weavile is dropping to UU. I'd say its that weavile can feel akward to fit onto teams and ladder doesn't like using weavile for some reason.
So on the topic of weavile, I think a set which is underated is tera ghost. Yes, you don't have the ability to jack up triple axel's and ice shards power to insane levels, but sometimes you get free sd opportunity on a lot of scary mons or have the ability to prevent revenge kills. Valiant's cc isn't going to do anything and zama's crunch is never a OHKO, so you can take that hit and respond with a triple axel. Another option is low kick over sd. Yes, you don't sweep as easily, but you can take on gambit, who is usually pretty good against weavile, and smack it for an OHKO.
they should have let Meow have 10+ more speed and swords dance. as a treat.
i have no greater claim in this discussion but I think they should have done it.
i have no greater claim in this discussion but I think they should have done it.
Give it old Protean and the Meow haters / Weav*le enjoyers wouldn't be sayin nothing to us cat loyalist!
I was thinking about an All-out-Attacker Weavile. (I think that's what AoA means). I don't click Swords Dance that often playing with it, since it seems chased out very quickly. My plays mean almost nothing, but it could be an interesting Mon. Similar to AoA Zamazenta, which is really fun to play with, but slower and much frailer.
This is talking about four attacks Weavile, I wasn't clear.
Ive used it that way, it appreciates the 4 slots, either low kick or sucker. Having said that, if you can force out a landorus or something, SD ice shard is great endgame. Kills moon, causes 50/50 on bolts thunderclap, kills landorus, kills dragapult etc. If you position well with SD then you can sometimes just end the game
I almost always find myself running tera ghost on SD Weavile honestly. Being able to tera on
or 
and set up an SD (or 2 or 3) in front of a potential body press, and then beating them 1v1 if they aren't running Brave Bird, is such a valuable tool to have. It also lets you chunk 
on entry far more effectively! I think Tera Ice/Dark/Fighting all serve their respective purposes but imo Ghost is far and away the best tera for Weavile, or at least the one I'd use most often.okay but seriously, giving this damn cat old protean would do so much. I don't believe in the Weav*le nation cuz I'm a real fucking Meower but thinking about the sheer capabilities of this cat with it makes me positively euphoric. Never again would I have to click knock and switch out when I can just mash the supereffective button repeatedly.
Enjoy using the cat in ubers (that's where it would be going). Therefore, the wavile nation would always win. ggs
When 123 Speed is still too slow lol.
Me when speed tiers are a thing. Yes 123 is slow when Weavile exists to do the same thing and beat it 1v1. Meow is good speed control but it really doesn't like being slower than Weavile, Rai, Zama, or Pult. At least Weavile and Darkrai speed tie each other; Meow straight up loses to both.
Everyday I wake up to more and more realizations that Gamefreak are actively working against my own happiness and sanity in one go I think
Meow did get a couple of wins this past week of WCOP, you can definitely still cook with the cat on certain builds. Also been pleasantly surprised by the number of lower tiered mons being used in WCOP so far, there's been multiple Moltres and Sinistcha sightings as well as an Okidogi win (!!!!). Nice to see experimentation can still be done with this mess of a tier.
We may have no Buzzwole, but okidogi sure is a really good alternative even if it is not an OU pokemon really
All this talk about that ugly ass cat, for a second I thought we were in early 2023, thank God we got faster threats and more tools so we don't have to see it that often in the tier 
It's funny because Dnite feels so underrated (I mean in the sense that is not brought up to the conversation that much) and yet it's top 15 in usage. Also, I think this gen rivals gen v with his best performance ever and all that with the HUGE power creep we received from SV.
It's funny because Dnite feels so underrated (I mean in the sense that is not brought up to the conversation that much) and yet it's top 15 in usage. Also, I think this gen rivals gen v with his best performance ever and all that with the HUGE power creep we received from SV.
I really like Meow. It's very well designed and it has very clear roles in the game. It has overlap with both Cinderace as a fast Protean pivot and with Weavile as a fast user of Triple Axel. It does all that and I don't think it ever once feels like they're directly competing because their tools are so different that they end up being used in different situations.
Plus, one thing I find interesting is that while it is a Protean user with double typing, it will indeed be running both its original STABs even with Grass being normally awkward offensively, which means even playing against it has clear counterplay and doesn't really feel gimmicky.
Now, is it overrated? I dunno man. I think it has enough set variety and tools to stay, even if minimally, relevant in OU for the whole generation. Good stuff
Plus, one thing I find interesting is that while it is a Protean user with double typing, it will indeed be running both its original STABs even with Grass being normally awkward offensively, which means even playing against it has clear counterplay and doesn't really feel gimmicky.
Now, is it overrated? I dunno man. I think it has enough set variety and tools to stay, even if minimally, relevant in OU for the whole generation. Good stuff
Gonna be frank the higher I go up on the ladder the more Kyurem feels like it needs to go immediately. Waterpon is obnoxious and I hate it with every fiber of my being but Kyurem invalidates so many team styles/pokemon that it legit feels like a suffocating presence. Unless you get a para off on it a majority of the time it just nukes something from the history of mankind everytime it comes in.
I kinda hate it. Shit feels so awful to play against unless you have Glowking, and even with Glowking it can feel too dicey.
I kinda hate it. Shit feels so awful to play against unless you have Glowking, and even with Glowking it can feel too dicey.