• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Metagame Alphabet Cup

The council should take some action on the large number of moves with secondary effects, especially Dire Claw, Triple Arrows, Sacred Fire, and Lumina Crash. Offensive Pokemon can easily lose to RNG from being put to sleep by Dire Claw, getting flinchaxxed/defense dropped/critted by Triple Arrows, or getting burned by Sacred Fire. Lumina Crash is slightly different in that in absolutely destroys special walls. While you can spam Covert Cloak to counter these moves, this is neither fun nor creative, and the high number of Pokemon with Knock Off this generation means that Covert Cloak cannot even perform its job properly.
 
InkyDarkBird said:
The council should take some action on the large number of moves with secondary effects, especially Dire Claw, Triple Arrows, Sacred Fire, and Lumina Crash. Offensive Pokemon can easily lose to RNG from being put to sleep by Dire Claw, getting flinchaxxed/defense dropped/critted by Triple Arrows, or getting burned by Sacred Fire. Lumina Crash is slightly different in that in absolutely destroys special walls. While you can spam Covert Cloak to counter these moves, this is neither fun nor creative, and the high number of Pokemon with Knock Off this generation means that Covert Cloak cannot even perform its job properly.
Click to expand...
Ngl the only one in the realm of broken here is dire claw because it’s effects are so daunting and the users aren’t shabby either (I.e dnite, pult), triple arrows usually doesn’t have game changing effects and has limited users besides terrakion (one mon, could get banned), sacred fire is just a generic util/stab with good secondary, and lumina crash doesn’t have good users either smilar to tarrows (again, lati is just one mon, could get banned if broken)
 
Notgamingreally said:
triple arrows usually doesn’t have game changing effects and has limited users besides terrakion (one mon, could get banned), sacred fire is just a generic util/stab with good secondary, and lumina crash doesn’t have good users either smilar to tarrows (again, lati is just one mon, could get banned if broken)
Click to expand...
You are forgetting Blaziken and the Tauros-Paldea forms, and Lati@s is two Pokemon and Chandelure exists. Sacred Fire being generic utility is exactly why it is so threatening, as it is the only Fire S-move, has the highest burn chance of any offensive move in the game, and is 100 BP. Sacred Fire gives another great tool to the already diverse movepool of S Pokemon, and it would almost be a waste to not run it whenever possible. Offensive Pokemon such as Meowscarada, Sneasler, Salamence, Krookodike, Sawsbuck, Cinderace, Scovillain, Kingdra, Cloyster, etc all benefit from having a powerful physical Fire move that effectively has a 50% chance to double their defense against a Pokemon and prevent sweeps from losing momentum. Defensive Pokemon such as Slowking, Reuniclus, Swampert, Sylveon, Goodra-Hisui, etc benefit by being able to almost permanently cripple an opposing physical attacker without having to KO it.
 
InkyDarkBird said:
You are forgetting Blaziken and the Tauros-Paldea forms, and Lati@s is two Pokemon and Chandelure exists. Sacred Fire being generic utility is exactly why it is so threatening, as it is the only Fire S-move, has the highest burn chance of any offensive move in the game, and is 100 BP. Sacred Fire gives another great tool to the already diverse movepool of S Pokemon, and it would almost be a waste to not run it whenever possible. Offensive Pokemon such as Meowscarada, Sneasler, Salamence, Krookodike, Sawsbuck, Cinderace, Scovillain, Kingdra, Cloyster, etc all benefit from having a powerful physical Fire move that effectively has a 50% chance to double their defense against a Pokemon and prevent sweeps from losing momentum. Defensive Pokemon such as Slowking, Reuniclus, Swampert, Sylveon, Goodra-Hisui, etc benefit by being able to almost permanently cripple an opposing physical attacker without having to KO it.
Click to expand...
Paldea forms aren’t that good on their own, the stab combo isn’t notable and neither are the stats. blaziken also has the chance to be cracked on its own with or without arrows (c t and b is just insane options). Also I’m ngl I think you’re overrating sacred fire, on offensive mons there are both other offensive checks that don’t care about it and defensive pokemon who don’t particularly care for burn in the short term or even long term (particularly with leftovers), not to mention there are great Pokémon that don’t care about getting burned at all such as fire types (heatran, gouging) and guts ursaluna + magic guard clefable and reuniclus. On defensive Pokémon it’s just a mildly better chance scald with less PP and it doesn’t actually threaten the burn immune fire types.
I will admit not considering latias and latios was a mistake but I still have doubts given latias having lower spa, chande seems too slow and exploitable. Forcing covert cloak isn’t that interesting, however covert cloak should still ideally be somewhere given how there’s such a variety of moves with good secondary effects, the prevalence of knock doesn’t really change this either, as if you let your less important items get knocked instead of covert cloak you should be fine dealing with things such as lumina crash (bh moment)
 
Last edited:
hi. time for long overdue maintenence. (many new bans because dlc2 because we are behind the times)

we will be banning the following pokemon in addition to our previous bans:
Annihilape, Blaziken, Chien-Pao, Deoxys-Base, Deoxys-Attack, Espathra, Gouging Fire, Ho-Oh, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Landorus-Base, Lugia, Lunala, Mamoswine, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Regieleki, Reshiram, Shaymin-Sky, Sneasler, Solgaleo, Terapagos, Zekrom

and we will be restricting the following moves to their native users, along with the previous restrictions:
Ceaseless Edge, Dire Claw, Lumina Crash, Salt Cure, Tail Glow

its been a while, might have missed some things we needed to get, let us know as time passes since this is a rather big change after so long, itll be nice to see how this develops. some of those move restrictions will, in effect, be bans as well since their native users are also banned
tagging everyone's friend dhelmise to implement these thank u
 
Eli said:
hi. time for long overdue maintenence. (many new bans because dlc2 because we are behind the times)

we will be banning the following pokemon in addition to our previous bans:
Annihilape, Blaziken, Chien-Pao, Deoxys-Base, Deoxys-Attack, Espathra, Gouging Fire, Ho-Oh, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Landorus-Base, Lugia, Lunala, Mamoswine, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Regieleki, Reshiram, Shaymin-Sky, Sneasler, Solgaleo, Terapagos, Zekrom

its been a while, might have missed some things we needed to get, let us know as time passes since this is a rather big change after so long, itll be nice to see how this develops. some of those move restrictions will, in effect, be bans as well since their native users are also banned
Click to expand...
You forgot Baxcalibur lol
 
Eli said:
hi. time for long overdue maintenence. (many new bans because dlc2 because we are behind the times)

we will be banning the following pokemon in addition to our previous bans:
Annihilape, Blaziken, Chien-Pao, Deoxys-Base, Deoxys-Attack, Espathra, Gouging Fire, Ho-Oh, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Landorus-Base, Lugia, Lunala, Mamoswine, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Regieleki, Reshiram, Shaymin-Sky, Sneasler, Solgaleo, Terapagos, Zekrom

and we will be restricting the following moves to their native users, along with the previous restrictions:
Ceaseless Edge, Dire Claw, Lumina Crash, Salt Cure, Tail Glow

its been a while, might have missed some things we needed to get, let us know as time passes since this is a rather big change after so long, itll be nice to see how this develops. some of those move restrictions will, in effect, be bans as well since their native users are also banned
tagging everyone's friend dhelmise to implement these thank u
Click to expand...
All other bans are fair and reasonable, however why is ceaseless edge banned? It’s not really anything more then spikes since most Cedge users were defensive and it’s a relatively low bp move, hazard removal is also increased significantly between R T M and even D mons (court change also exists, I guess).
Also, why is gouging fire banned?
 
Last edited:
Heat Rock and Damp Rock should be banned for their disgusting synergies with Victreebel V-Create and Walking Wake Water Spout and Archaludon.
Dragon Energy should be restricted or Dragapult should be banned.
Meowscarada should be watchlisted for its Fusion Bolt + Flower Trick + Knock Off + Sacred Fire + Mighty Cleave + Triple Axel + Magical Torque + Superpower + Sunsteel Strike + U-Turn + Protean, and Cinderace should be watchlisted too.

Ban Baxcalibur too.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9anythinggoes-2184332746
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9anythinggoes-2184313894
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9anythinggoes-2184344283
 
Last edited:
I updated the VR to downgrade G to B tier. Gigaton Hammer + Glaive Rush + Glare is not that useful for many G Pokemon.

I'll be posting some relatively niche, but extremely good Pokemon I have been playing with.
I'm obviously not going to cover extremely broken Pokemon such as Baxcalibur, Victreebel, Dragapult, etc.
I give credit to Wingullspammer69 for playing with me as well as providing the base set for Sableye.

:scream-tail:
Scream Shackle (Scream Tail) @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Perish Song
- Encore
- Strength Sap

This is my favorite set on my stall team. Scream Tail becomes one of the most effective Perishtrappers in Alphabet Cup with a unique defensive typing making it one of the few Pokemon to resist Fighting and Dragon, and a high base speed making Encore more viable. Spirit Shackle and Encore are easily able to shut down any player that gets too greedy and sets up on it, or even against other stall Pokemon, such as Garganacl or Toxapex with the right Encore. Strength Sap synergizes well with Encore by being able to leech off of offensive boosts and massively recover HP.

:sableye:
Smeargle But Better (Sableye) @ Rocky Helmet/Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stone Axe/Spikes/Sticky Web
- Super Fang/Sand Tomb/Spirit Shackle
- Will-O-Wisp/Taunt/Encore/Disable
- Strength Sap

Sableye is one of the most annoying Pokemon I have faced. This monster does everything Smeargle does, but even better because of Prankster. Unless you send in a Dark type Pokemon, be prepared to completely lose if you send in a physical attacker versus Sableye. It will simply keep Sapping your Strength while Webbing the field and Encoring you into status moves. Compared to its counterpart, Grafaiai, it lacks an effective pivot move, but it has an amazing defensive typing that blocks Rapid Spins.
You could use either Sableye or Grafaiai depending on your team.

:meowscarada:
Coverage Monster (Meowscarada) @ Choice Band
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: have fun guessing bro
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Flower Trick/Fusion Bolt/Magical Torque/Mighty Cleave/Mountain Gale/Sacred Fire/Superpower/Sacred Sword/Sunsteel Strike
- Flower Trick/Fusion Bolt/Magical Torque/Mighty Cleave/Mountain Gale/Sacred Fire/Superpower/Sacred Sword/Sunsteel Strike
- U-turn/Flip Turn

The reason Meowscarada is not as broken as the other Pokemon that should most definitely be banned is because it heavily suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome, but unlike Blaziken, it has less attack and can't keep its original STABs if it chooses a move. Similar to Blaziken, though, it has an insane coverage pool that will leave many players raging over unpredictability. Whatever types your offensive team lacks, Meowscarada can easily be slotted in to provide great firepower and speed control.
 
Hightide said:
We have decided to ban Chi-Yu and Kingambit, restrict Extreme Speed, and change Shed Tail's status from Restricted to Banned, as all of them were incredibly strong offensive options with very little counterplay.
Click to expand...
These changes don't seem to be reflected in the banlist?
 
Elly are u alive bro ban Bax

Some combination of Heat Rock, V-create, or Scovillain should definitely be banned.
V-create being paired with Volt Tackle can easily shred stall teams with Pokemon such as Victreebel and Volcanion using Growth/Victory Dance.
Terastalization worsens this issue. Unless you decide to run Heatran (no recovery) or burn your Tera, you cannot feasibly wall Volcanion or Victreebel under the Sun.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Victreebel Volt Tackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 343-406 (113.2 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Fire Volcanion V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Sun: 299-352 (98.6 - 116.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Volcanion V-create vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Tera Water Pecharunt in Sun: 218-257 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Furthermore, Pokemon such as Ninetales can run Choice Scarf and easily outspeed and OHKO or do massive damage to most offensive Pokemon with STAB Sun-boosted V-create.
252+ Atk Ninetales V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja in Sun: 235-277 (82.4 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Ninetales V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dark Meowscarada in Sun: 456-537 (155.6 - 183.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Ninetales V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cinderace in Sun: 214-252 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Ninetales V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon in Sun: 225-265 (64.1 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sun wouldn't be this problematic if it was just restricted to the setters and V-create, but with Heat Rock and Sacred Fire being legal to every S Pokemon (Scovillain, Meowscarada, Cinderace, etc) and the existence Protosynthesis Pokemon (Roaring Moon, Brute Bonnet? idk), Sun teams can provide multiple type coverages to eliminate a variety of Pokemon. Because Torkoal and Ninetales both get pivoting moves as well (Teleport, Volt Switch), it becomes far easier to maintain momentum and conserve valuable Sun turns.

Scovillain is the BEST Pokemon in the tier for Sun. Gaining access to STAB Solar Blade, Seed Flare, and Sacred Fire along with proper Fighting, Dark, and Poison coverage moves (barely used but whatever) makes it absolutely wreck HO by outspeeding every non-scarfed Pokemon and 2HKOing most resists. You can also run Growth to destroy stall.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Scovillain Solar Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 274-324 (90.4 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Scovillain Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cinderace in Sun: 194-229 (64.4 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Scovillain Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult in Sun: 195-230 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Look at the games below for evidence of the brokenness of Sun.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9anythinggoes-2184313894?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9anythinggoes-2196129557?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9anythinggoes-2215420565
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9anythinggoes-2230370277?p2
 
Last edited:
omotm

alphabet cinema.png
 
The council should ban Dragapult/restrict Dragon Energy for its ability to nuke almost anything slower than it, ban Baxcalibur for doing the exact same thing + gaining Bone Rush and Bolt Strike, ban/watchlist Meowscarada for its insane coverage, ban V-create or Ninetales for being able to nuke almost anything slower than it and synergizing with Sun, and implement Sleep Moves Clause instead of Sleep Clause because Spore is absolutely broken.
 
Been playing for a bit, here are my thoughts:

Clangorous Soul is insane on bulky Pokemon like Corviknight and Cresselia, to the point where, if you don't have a way to stop them from setting up, you will probably be swept. There are checks like anything with Prankster and Haze, but its probably not good that you have to run very specific sets just to stop a few mons that can set up with the same move. Its very fun to use, but is probably banworthy due to how insane it can get.

The Sleep Move Clause definitely needs to be implemented - it says this is the case in the ruleset already, and people have mentioned it a bunch, but you've accidentally added the Sleep Clause instead. I think the worst offenders of Pokemon abusing this are Serperior and Sableye, who now both have the ability to use very fast Spores. Serperior is especially scary, as it now has the potential to sweep while you're locked into sleep.
 
hi chat can you believe it its february that means its MY month.

As many of us have learned, we do in fact have sleep moves clause and this is going to be fixed on ps at some point soon, just an oversight i'd imagine

but also to get us off to a hopefully less chaotic start, we have bans and a restriction
We will be BANNING the following: Baxcalibur, Dragapult, Meowscarada, Damp Rock, and Heat Rock.
We will be RESTRICTING Clangorous Soul because C is a common letter out in the wild and several things being able to abuse omniboost with reliable recovery is a bit much.

Baxcalibur is crazy strong already with Icicle Spear and Scale shot sets, alongside its other standard sets. But it also also gains access to much more coverage due to F/A/B having moves such as Bitter Blade, Bolt Strike, Flower Trick, Flip Turn, and I GUESS Axe Kick, which is a lot when combined with the STAB moves it already has. Hard to wall that guy.

Meowscarada just kind of gets access to everything good you could think of in addition to its already good move pool. Having S/F/M will do that for you. See: First Impression, Flare Blitz, Fusion Bolt, Stealth Rock, Sunsteel Strike, Sacred Fire, Sacred Sword, Spirit Shackle, Superpower, Swords Dance, Magical Torque, Mighty Cleave, Mountain Gale, there's probably more but you get the point I think.

Dragapult just nukes stuff with Dragon Energy, it does its normal thing but better.

Weather is crazy strong, especially sun, so Damp Rock and Heat Rock are going to make them less potent. We will see how this evolves going forward, especially without Heat Rock, V-Create, random Chlorophyll users, so yeah.

Hi dhelmise can u implement at some point thank u
 
I have some fun ideas

:slaking:
Slaking @ Leftovers / Heavy-duty boots
Ability: Truant
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Skill swap
- Victory dance
- V-create
- Double-Edge / Body Slam / Facade

Steal almost any ability, grant yourself a free setup turn and have fun. Tera Fire prevents burns too.

:incineroar:
Incineroar @ Heavy-duty boots ( or Grip Claw)
Ability: Intimidate
Tera type: Bug / Grass / other
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Imprison
- Transform
- Fire Spin
- Leech Seed / Filler

Not your typical Incineroar set. Max special bulk allows Incineroar to live the turns it needs to trap its target. Physical bulk is increased by Intimidate. Fire spin is its most reliable trapping move to ensure the opponent can't switch. Use Imprison and then Transform to see your opponent struggle to do anything.

:clefable:
Clefable @ Heavy-duty boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera type: Poison / Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Psych Up
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss / Moonblast / Filler
- Counter / Filler

Fake Magic Guard Clefable could lure opponents in setting up, then copies their boosts and ignores the opponent's. Uses Stored Power to throw their own boosts back at them. Works okay. Counter is fun to catch some physical attackers off-guard.
 
I feel like the issue with your Incineroar set is that Incineroar itself is too slow and lacking in recovery to actually trap any player using decent Pokemon. Most of them will likely KO or pivot out before Incineroar can actually set up the strategy.
Slaking is an old relic that you think is good until you realize Protosynthesis and Quark Drive fail with it.
Clefable definitely looks interesting, but you definitely need to invest more in defensive bulk rather than just relying on Unaware.

252 Atk Cinderace Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 195-231 (49.4 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Dragonite Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 261-307 (66.2 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Ive been cooking various sets and the best by far has been Torn-T with sub, torch song, thundercage and hurricane. Fast and bulky enough to make progress against all archetypes. Biggest issue playing this set is that its slower than meowscarada, but with the recent bans its not going to be an issue.
 
If anyone is struggling to answer setup sweepers, Thundurus now has Topsy-Turvy. Saw one flip the tables on my Clangerous Soul Blissey and I just had to quit out of that match out of sheer amazement. After trying it myself, I can confirm that this is not just a fringe pick, and not just a decent choice either, but it's almost a genuine supportive threat.

Also, while Tornadus ALSO has Topsy-Turvy now, I suggest using Thundurus over Tornadus because Thundurus naturally threatens many bulky Waters like Curse+Diamond Storm Dondozo. If they have the guts to stay in against you, use Topsy-Turvy and watch Diamond Storm do like a whopping 40%. Thundurus also gets priority Toxic Spikes if you have a turn to burn, along with other silly options like Torch Song, Thunderclap, and Trick. Just remember to keep room for Volt Switch.

Adding this to my team was the best choice I ever made in this game.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top