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Dragapult banned because of multi-item plus being really fast, could be suspected in the future.
Weavile is a similar story but it wants phys items instead of special items.
Of the Ubers unbanned most of them are reliant on item/ability combos (e.g, Landorus-I relies on SFLorb, Regieleki relies on Magnet + Transistor to deal damage, etc) that would be outscaled by heightened offensive/defensive capabilities.
Watchlist:
Choice Scarf + a second offensive item (e.g, Choice Band, Choice Specs, and LOrb being the most notable) may be too difficult for the meta to handle without devolving into a speed-creep war. Pokemon such as Iron Valiant and Kyurem can run LOrb + Scarf to have essentially unscoutable sets, Darkrai can run Boots + Scarf to be essentially impossible to beat without priority, and Scarf + second Choice item empowers a LOT of pokemon with a free dragon dance/special dragon dance.
Focus Sash + Boots, Focus Sash + Weakness Policy, even something like Sash + Mental Herb or Sash + Light Clay may be too strong as free sturdy on leads, setup sweepers (shell smash), etc just seems really really good. Imagine a Smeargle, but you can't stop it from setting webs period
Kyurem can happily run either special, physical, or mixed, and is happy to dump the useless pressure for an extra item. Perhaps its' too good considering how strong Kyus' coverage is.
&
Despite the fact that both Ruin pokemon start unbanned in this meta (since they don't want to abandon their abilities for double item and can't double down on abilities), they still might be overall too problematic in the meta.
Yea, Tera might make the offensive power of certain pokemon too untenable to make for a fun meta. Tera could easily get axed.
Q: What if I have a consumable item (sash, berries) in my ability slot? Do I have No Ability after it gets consumed?
A: Yes, though this is up in the air due to coding constraints. It's possible we'll need a "consumable clause."
Q: What happens if I have two items and someone hits me with Knock Off? What about two abilities?
A: If you are holding two items, the item in the item slot gets Knocked Off as normal, and the item in the ability slot cannot get knocked off. If you are holding two abilities, Knock Off acts as if you are itemless. (For clarification, Acrobatics and Unburden still behave normally and do not double in base power or double your speed)
Q: Can I use illegal abilities in my item slot?
A: No, only abilities that the pokemon can already use. This means single-ability pokemon (such as Chien-Pao) may not run two abilities. Additionally, you cannot use duplicate abilities.
Q: ok what about Frisk?
A: It'll show whatever is in the Item slot (ability or item). This means whatever is in the ability slot stays hidden.
Q: Isn't this OM super offense oriented? What's to stop someone from running five Choice Band + Choice Scarf/other scary offense pokemon?
A: While its' true that a good chunk of items are offensively powerful (e.g, aformentioned Choice Combination), a good chunk of abilities are defensively powerful (e.x, Clodsire running Water Absorb AND Unaware), and there will definitely still be defensive pokemon utilizing multiple items (e.g, replacing Skarms' ability with boots/leftovers, or Goodra-H grabbing Red Card + Assault Vest). Additionally, Eviolite exists and can run in an unknockable way in the ability slot! (imagine Dusclops with Eviolite + Leftovers! Or Eviolite + Assault Vest!)
Edit1: added slaking to ban list, fixed minor grammar
I see your point, but fervent impersonation is more like replicating the mon, while this OM is adding everything of the itemmon to the base, like a weird chimera thing.
Fervent Impersonation: Nickname a Pokémon after another Pokémon that it shares a moveset with, and it will transform into the Pokémon it's nicknamed after once it drops to or below 50% health.
Dragapult banned because of multi-item plus being really fast, could be suspected in the future.
Weavile is a similar story but it wants phys items instead of special items.
Of the Ubers unbanned most of them are reliant on item/ability combos (e.g, Landorus-I relies on SFLorb, Regieleki relies on Magnet + Transistor to deal damage, etc) that would be outscaled by heightened offensive/defensive capabilities.
Watchlist:
Choice Scarf + a second offensive item (e.g, Choice Band, Choice Specs, and LOrb being the most notable) may be too difficult for the meta to handle without devolving into a speed-creep war. Pokemon such as Iron Valiant and Kyurem can run LOrb + Scarf to have essentially unscoutable sets, Darkrai can run Boots + Scarf to be essentially impossible to beat without priority, and Scarf + second Choice item empowers a LOT of pokemon with a free dragon dance/special dragon dance.
Focus Sash + Boots, Focus Sash + Weakness Policy, even something like Sash + Mental Herb or Sash + Light Clay may be too strong as free sturdy on leads, setup sweepers (shell smash), etc just seems really really good. Imagine a Smeargle, but you can't stop it from setting webs period
Kyurem can happily run either special, physical, or mixed, and is happy to dump the useless pressure for an extra item. Perhaps its' too good considering how strong Kyus' coverage is.
&
Despite the fact that both Ruin pokemon start unbanned in this meta (since they don't want to abandon their abilities for double item and can't double down on abilities), they still might be overall too problematic in the meta.
Yea, Tera might make the offensive power of certain pokemon too untenable to make for a fun meta. Tera could easily get axed.
Q: What if I have a consumable item (sash, berries) in my ability slot? Do I have No Ability after it gets consumed?
A: Yes, though this is up in the air due to coding constraints. It's possible we'll need a "consumable clause."
Q: What happens if I have two items and someone hits me with Knock Off? What about two abilities?
A: If you are holding two items, the item in the item slot gets Knocked Off as normal, and the item in the ability slot cannot get knocked off. If you are holding two abilities, Knock Off acts as if you are itemless. (For clarification, Acrobatics and Unburden still behave normally and do not double in base power or double your speed)
Q: Can I use illegal abilities in my item slot?
A: No, only abilities that the pokemon can already use. This means single-ability pokemon (such as Chien-Pao) may not run two abilities. Additionally, you cannot use duplicate abilities.
Q: ok what about Frisk?
A: It'll show whatever is in the Item slot (ability or item). This means whatever is in the ability slot stays hidden.
Q: Isn't this OM super offense oriented? What's to stop someone from running five Choice Band + Choice Scarf/other scary offense pokemon?
A: While its' true that a good chunk of items are offensively powerful (e.g, aformentioned Choice Combination), a good chunk of abilities are defensively powerful (e.x, Clodsire running Water Absorb AND Unaware), and there will definitely still be defensive pokemon utilizing multiple items (e.g, replacing Skarms' ability with boots/leftovers, or Goodra-H grabbing Red Card + Assault Vest). Additionally, Eviolite exists and can run in an unknockable way in the ability slot! (imagine Dusclops with Eviolite + Leftovers! Or Eviolite + Assault Vest!)
Edit1: added slaking to ban list, fixed minor grammar
I find this pretty good as it's a simple change and doesn't involve many things compared to my last suggestion. Yet, I have some comments to add :
1) What do you consider "useless" exactly ? To take back your examples, Clefable has already good options on its own, without using both abilities at once ; Metagross is pretty bulky and its access to Clear Body coupled with Agility + Weakness Policy makes it a good setup sweeper. Surely it has many counters in OU and its stats badly aged giving the actual power creep, but its coverage is enough to tell that it's playable in higher formats ; Lastly, Pressure is what I would call a Stall weapon, as it reduces PP twice faster, which fit Pokémon with Protect and Substitute, and Kyurem possess both.
2) Pokebilities already combine Pokémon abilities, while letting them to use items. I would restrict the rules to replacing abilities by items only, so it doesn't look similar. Having two items might be complex to code for obvious reasons (equip your Pokémon with Eject Pack + White Herb and tell me which item has the priority first), but it's one of the few remaining unused mechanics so why not.
EDIT : it seems like there are already metagames involving items-abilities swap, so in fact your metagame is more like juggling between them and Pokebilities...
Dragapult banned because of multi-item plus being really fast, could be suspected in the future.
Weavile is a similar story but it wants phys items instead of special items.
Of the Ubers unbanned most of them are reliant on item/ability combos (e.g, Landorus-I relies on SFLorb, Regieleki relies on Magnet + Transistor to deal damage, etc) that would be outscaled by heightened offensive/defensive capabilities.
Watchlist:
Choice Scarf + a second offensive item (e.g, Choice Band, Choice Specs, and LOrb being the most notable) may be too difficult for the meta to handle without devolving into a speed-creep war. Pokemon such as Iron Valiant and Kyurem can run LOrb + Scarf to have essentially unscoutable sets, Darkrai can run Boots + Scarf to be essentially impossible to beat without priority, and Scarf + second Choice item empowers a LOT of pokemon with a free dragon dance/special dragon dance.
Focus Sash + Boots, Focus Sash + Weakness Policy, even something like Sash + Mental Herb or Sash + Light Clay may be too strong as free sturdy on leads, setup sweepers (shell smash), etc just seems really really good. Imagine a Smeargle, but you can't stop it from setting webs period
Kyurem can happily run either special, physical, or mixed, and is happy to dump the useless pressure for an extra item. Perhaps its' too good considering how strong Kyus' coverage is.
&
Despite the fact that both Ruin pokemon start unbanned in this meta (since they don't want to abandon their abilities for double item and can't double down on abilities), they still might be overall too problematic in the meta.
Yea, Tera might make the offensive power of certain pokemon too untenable to make for a fun meta. Tera could easily get axed.
Q: What if I have a consumable item (sash, berries) in my ability slot? Do I have No Ability after it gets consumed?
A: Yes, though this is up in the air due to coding constraints. It's possible we'll need a "consumable clause."
Q: What happens if I have two items and someone hits me with Knock Off? What about two abilities?
A: If you are holding two items, the item in the item slot gets Knocked Off as normal, and the item in the ability slot cannot get knocked off. If you are holding two abilities, Knock Off acts as if you are itemless. (For clarification, Acrobatics and Unburden still behave normally and do not double in base power or double your speed)
Q: Can I use illegal abilities in my item slot?
A: No, only abilities that the pokemon can already use. This means single-ability pokemon (such as Chien-Pao) may not run two abilities. Additionally, you cannot use duplicate abilities.
Q: ok what about Frisk?
A: It'll show whatever is in the Item slot (ability or item). This means whatever is in the ability slot stays hidden.
Q: Isn't this OM super offense oriented? What's to stop someone from running five Choice Band + Choice Scarf/other scary offense pokemon?
A: While its' true that a good chunk of items are offensively powerful (e.g, aformentioned Choice Combination), a good chunk of abilities are defensively powerful (e.x, Clodsire running Water Absorb AND Unaware), and there will definitely still be defensive pokemon utilizing multiple items (e.g, replacing Skarms' ability with boots/leftovers, or Goodra-H grabbing Red Card + Assault Vest). Additionally, Eviolite exists and can run in an unknockable way in the ability slot! (imagine Dusclops with Eviolite + Leftovers! Or Eviolite + Assault Vest!)
Edit1: added slaking to ban list, fixed minor grammar
This seems like Dual Wielding (replace ability with item), Multibility (replace item with ability), and Pokebilities (multiple abilities legal on your mon are active at the same time) combined. This smacks strongly of an OM Mashup to me.
Okay my OM idea is Itemmons, which is where every Pokémon can hold another as a consumable item, and it activates once the mon reaches under % health (for balance). The items activation does multiple things:
1. Adds the type/s of the itemmon to the user of the item. So a normal type holding an electric/ghost type becomes normal/electric/ghost type.
2. Adds the main ability of the itemmon to the user. So a Pokémon holding gholdengo would get good as gold, as well as their base ability.
3. Gives the highest stat of the ITEMMON a significant boost, say 50% or so. A Pokémon holding an itemmon with equalised stats gets a boost at random.
These items CAN be knocked off or stolen or tricked etc. Only one of each itemmon can be used per team.
Possible Bans:
Most Ubers Mons (Metagame will be centralised around OU mostly)
Itemmons:
Gholdengo - Good As Gold would be broken as a second ability. Need I say more
Ruin Mons - Stat reduction is really good, especially passively
Comfey - Triage, a fairy type and essentially a free assault vest would be great on a Pokémon with actual attacking stats
Ubers Mons - As stated above
Edits 1: added some more to the banlist and changed the items activation to 50%
I got some comments that my OM was too similar to fervent impersonation so to further distinguish it I would add some more complex bans, as well as distinguishing some aspects from fervent impersonation (god I sound like chatgpt). In Fervent Impersonation, you change into the Pokémon your nickname is, however in Itemmons, you forgo your item for some different effects unique to the Pokémon you chose.
Itemmons, is where every Pokémon can hold another as a consumable item, and it activates once the mon reaches under 33% health (for balance). The items activation does multiple things:
1. Adds the type/s of the itemmon to the user of the item. So a normal type holding an electric/ghost type becomes normal/electric/ghost type, NOT an electric/ghost type. All types stay on the user.
2. Adds the main ability of the itemmon to the user. So a Clefable holding gholdengo would get good as gold, as well as their base ability, such as unaware.
3. Gives the highest stat of the ITEMMON a significant boost, say 50% or so. A Pokémon holding an itemmon with equalised stats gets a smaller boost to all. So a Pokémon holding Porygon-Z gets a 50% Special Attack boost, while a Pokémon holding Great Tusk gets a 33% boost to both attack and defence.
As a full example, a Raichu holding a Scizor would become an Electric/Steel/Bug type with Lightning Rod AND Technician, and a 50% attack boost. In Fervent Impersonation the Raichu would just transform into a Scizor. (I just used Raichu and Scizor because they’re my two favourite mons).
These items CAN be knocked off or stolen or tricked etc. The effects DO NOT go away on switch. Your typing stays and you get the boosts back when you switch in again.
Possible Bans:
Most Ubers Mons (Metagame will be centralised around OU mostly)
Itemmons:
Gholdengo - Good As Gold would be broken as a second ability. Need I say more.
Ubers Mons - As mentioned above.
Pickup - Item regeneration is a no-no
Pickpocket? I can’t remember but that ability where you steal an item on contact
Recycle - See Pickup
Any other ability or move like this that I missed
Complex Bans:
Drought + Chlorophyll
Drought + Solar Power
Drizzle + Swift Swim
Snow Warning + Snow Cloak
Snow Warning + Slush Rush
Sand Stream + Sand Rush
Sand Stream + Sand Force
Sand Stream + Sand Veil
Electric Surge + Quark Drive
Hadron Engine + Quark Drive
Electric Surge + Surge Surfer
Hadron Engine + Surge Surfer
Watchlist:
Ruin Mons - Stat reduction is really good, especially passively
Comfey - Triage, a fairy type and essentially a free assault vest would be great on a Pokémon with actually useable attacking stats
Heatran - Imagine Heatran, but it gets a passive air balloon, holding something like corviknight
Clefable - Great bulk, Unaware, Fairy typing, Magic Guard
Blaziken - Speed boost, swords dance, add to a special attacking psychic type for the stored power sweeper
Clauses - Standard OM clauses like terastal clause, sleep moves clause + item clause because this is an items based metagame, species clause to add more variation to the metagame, so every team is not 6 Clefable, Knock off clause, only 2 Pokémon may use knock off per team to keep things fun and interesting.
I just realised that most of them are unnecessary. Any snow combos just get nuked by a fire move. Wait abomasnow aslash is 8x weak to fire lol. Sand has never been great and we could always restrict ttar. Hadron engine is only on miraidon and electric surge is on… what’s it called… the pu mon… pincurchin. Sun combos yeah torkoal is mid. Rain… uh use an electric move. Okay yeah I can ditch all these. Thanks for the feedback!
Metagame Premise:
The Field Nature determines the attacking and defending stats for the entire field. The increased stat determines the attacking stat for all mons, and the lowered stat determines the defending stat for all mons. For instance, a Relaxed Field Nature has both mons attack with their Defense stat, and defend with their Speed stat.
In order to change the current Field Nature, either player can switch in a mon with a nature that has at least partial overlap with the current Field Nature. As QOL, a Pokemon will have both stats affected by their own nature gain 10% boost, rather than one increasing and the other lowering by 10%, so natures are more easily picked without crippling the mon's defenses.
The first Field Nature is determined by whichever leading mon is slowest. After this, the game continues as usual.
So for examples, a Dragonite and Blissey are sent out as leads. The Blissey, with its Careful (+spdef, -spa) nature is slower, and sets the Field Nature. Now both mons attack with their SpDef stat, and defend with their SpA!
The Dragonite switches out to a Lando-T with Modest nature (+spa, -atk). This has partial overlap with Careful (+spdef, -spa), so it sets the Field Nature to Modest- now both mons attack with their SpA, and defend with their Atk!
The current Field Nature is displayed to both players at all times.
Potential Bans and Threats:
Interesting things to consider: Lando with a -atk nature like Modest can now use Intimidate offensively to drop the opponents defending stat by 1 on switchin. Chlorophyll or Swift Swim might look really threatening as something like Barraskewda can switch in and get +2 base 136 offensive stat right away, but it could be stopped by a switchin that changes the attacking stat from speed. A mon with all-round (or at least more than 2) good stats is harder to pacify with a switchin, while a mon with a couple of really high stats is higher risk higher reward. Moves that drop your own stats might be a non-issue if they arent one of the currently used stats- for instance Draco Meteor from a Bold Gouging Fire. Mons can now use physical/special moves from their movepools without issue as both are used off of the same attacking stat. Self-boosting moves that didn't matter much before can now become more threatening. You can have some really monstrous mons in the meta, as I'll show below, but they do best when they can change the Field Nature. You need to therefore create a situation where they'll switch in on an overlapping Field Nature.
Landorus with a Modest (+spa-atk) nature is pretty nice since intimidate drops the opponent's defending stat in a Modest Field Nature. That means this lando can actually hit like a truck despite its "lower" offensive stat.
Cyclizar can potentially defend with its excellent 121 speed in a Brave Field Nature, which paired with Regenerator makes it hard to take down. It also attacks with its 95 attack, meaning that it can spam Draco Meteor endlessly without suffering any downsides as long as it controls the stats on the field.
Drednaw @ Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Surf
Drednaw can run Swift Swim to become immediately very threatening in a Timid Field Nature, having +2 speed and then also using that to increase its 74 offensive stat while also having a tanky 115 defending stat. With its bulk it can get off multiple Shell Smashes, which drops only unused stats and grants +2 in its defensive AND offensive stats. However, it'll struggle if the opponent can easily change the Field Nature so it has to attack with its dropped Defense or Special Defense.
Questions for the community
-Do you like how the starting Field Nature is chosen?
-Any monstrous threats? Im thinking some swift swimmers and chloros could be broken right away, and speed is a standout threatening attacking stat
-Can mons which dont work in all Field Natures (like cyclizar) see play?
-How might the metagame shape up? Are defensive or offensive strategies best?
Id also add, there is a reason why I made it so you need to have partial overlap to change the Field Nature instead of every switch changes the Field Nature- and that is because it seemed way too easy to pacify opposing Pokemon with stall tactics. I think this will limit that kind of strategy and give more mons the chance to deal damage when they manage to get in. Maintaining either the defensive choice or offensive choice from the mon with tempo means that they retain some of their strength against the switchin and can't just be completely neutered.
Also, Field Nature is separate to the nature on the Pokemon on the field. A Modest Field Nature doesnt mean both mons are affected by the Modest boost (+10%spa, -10%atk) it just means that both Pokemon are attacking with Spa and defending with Atk. The mon's individual natures however, DO affect their own personal stats.
Its supposed to be a wacky meta that doesnt just change things in a static way in the teambuilder, but also the in-game choices by both players will shift how the mons interact. I reckon that games in Natural Order would be very unique.
Metagame Premise:
The Field Nature determines the attacking and defending stats for the entire field. The increased stat determines the attacking stat for all mons, and the lowered stat determines the defending stat for all mons. For instance, a Relaxed Field Nature has both mons attack with their Defense stat, and defend with their Speed stat.
In order to change the current Field Nature, either player can switch in a mon with a nature that has at least partial overlap with the current Field Nature. As QOL, a Pokemon will have both stats affected by their own nature gain 10% boost, rather than one increasing and the other lowering by 10%, so natures are more easily picked without crippling the mon's defenses.
The first Field Nature is determined by whichever leading mon is slowest. After this, the game continues as usual.
So for examples, a Dragonite and Blissey are sent out as leads. The Blissey, with its Careful (+spdef, -spa) nature is slower, and sets the Field Nature. Now both mons attack with their SpDef stat, and defend with their SpA!
The Dragonite switches out to a Lando-T with Modest nature (+spa, -atk). This has partial overlap with Careful (+spdef, -spa), so it sets the Field Nature to Modest- now both mons attack with their SpA, and defend with their Atk!
The current Field Nature is displayed to both players at all times.
Potential Bans and Threats:
Interesting things to consider: Lando with a -atk nature like Modest can now use Intimidate offensively to drop the opponents defending stat by 1 on switchin. Chlorophyll or Swift Swim might look really threatening as something like Barraskewda can switch in and get +2 base 136 offensive stat right away, but it could be stopped by a switchin that changes the attacking stat from speed. A mon with all-round (or at least more than 2) good stats is harder to pacify with a switchin, while a mon with a couple of really high stats is higher risk higher reward. Moves that drop your own stats might be a non-issue if they arent one of the currently used stats- for instance Draco Meteor from a Bold Gouging Fire. Mons can now use physical/special moves from their movepools without issue as both are used off of the same attacking stat. Self-boosting moves that didn't matter much before can now become more threatening. You can have some really monstrous mons in the meta, as I'll show below, but they do best when they can change the Field Nature. You need to therefore create a situation where they'll switch in on an overlapping Field Nature.
Landorus with a Modest (+spa-atk) nature is pretty nice since intimidate drops the opponent's defending stat in a Modest Field Nature. That means this lando can actually hit like a truck despite its "lower" offensive stat.
Cyclizar can potentially defend with its excellent 121 speed in a Brave Field Nature, which paired with Regenerator makes it hard to take down. It also attacks with its 95 attack, meaning that it can spam Draco Meteor endlessly without suffering any downsides as long as it controls the stats on the field.
Drednaw @ Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Surf
Drednaw can run Swift Swim to become immediately very threatening in a Timid Field Nature, having +2 speed and then also using that to increase its 74 offensive stat while also having a tanky 115 defending stat. With its bulk it can get off multiple Shell Smashes, which drops only unused stats and grants +2 in its defensive AND offensive stats. However, it'll struggle if the opponent can easily change the Field Nature so it has to attack with its dropped Defense or Special Defense.
Questions for the community
-Do you like how the starting Field Nature is chosen?
-Any monstrous threats? Im thinking some swift swimmers and chloros could be broken right away, and speed is a standout threatening attacking stat
-Can mons which dont work in all Field Natures (like cyclizar) see play?
-How might the metagame shape up? Are defensive or offensive strategies best?
Id also add, there is a reason why I made it so you need to have partial overlap to change the Field Nature instead of every switch changes the Field Nature- and that is because it seemed way too easy to pacify opposing Pokemon with stall tactics. I think this will limit that kind of strategy and give more mons the chance to deal damage when they manage to get in. Maintaining either the defensive choice or offensive choice from the mon with tempo means that they retain some of their strength against the switchin and can't just be completely neutered.
Also, Field Nature is separate to the nature on the Pokemon on the field. A Modest Field Nature doesnt mean both mons are affected by the Modest boost (+10%spa, -10%atk) it just means that both Pokemon are attacking with Spa and defending with Atk. The mon's individual natures however, DO affect their own personal stats.
Its supposed to be a wacky meta that doesnt just change things in a static way in the teambuilder, but also the in-game choices by both players will shift how the mons interact. I reckon that games in Natural Order would be very unique.
I did understand the concept, and I think there are issues that can't make your OM shine yet :
1) Try to simplify your premise. It's better to explain in details in a Rules section rather than here ;
2) I got your set analyses, and I understand the approach in theory, but I think it would be a nightmare to handle in practical. As you indirectly said with Drednaw, getting setup conveniently is not much dependant of your mon's nature than the opponent's, which means you have to pray that your opponent switching doesn't impact your game plan too much. This fact is relevant for both sides, so I would suggest that the Field Nature is definitive and determined by the first of both Pokémon to appear in battle ;
3) Sorry if it might ruin your chances, but there's already a metagame involving stats shifts based on natures, though I can't remember the name at the moment.
EDIT : I forgot to mention that it would be nice to create a Clause which let you know the current Field Nature.
This metagame seems to be a petmod, since the specific weather, terrain, and dimension order seem to be set subjectively, rather than objectively. Furthermore, if old weather effects are allowed, why does this idea use Misty Terrain and not Fog, as well as Snow and not Hail?
Since the condition order is the same every single time, most team structures will be very similar to take advantage of the conditions, which is repetitive. Randomizing the condition order makes idea more luck-based, which is not fun.
First of all, I just decided on this order myself, but it doesn't have to be this way. I just decided on not using Fog since this just encourages RNG, and for Snow I rergarded it as the updated version of Hail.
I also think you're right that it's hard to balance variance and RNG in this format due to how it is set up. Do you maybe have an idea or suggestion on how to involve these field conditions in a competitive setting?
Metagame Premise:
The Field Nature determines the attacking and defending stats for the entire field. The increased stat determines the attacking stat for all mons, and the lowered stat determines the defending stat for all mons. For instance, a Relaxed Field Nature has both mons attack with their Defense stat, and defend with their Speed stat.
In order to change the current Field Nature, either player can switch in a mon with a nature that has at least partial overlap with the current Field Nature. As QOL, a Pokemon will have both stats affected by their own nature gain 10% boost, rather than one increasing and the other lowering by 10%, so natures are more easily picked without crippling the mon's defenses.
The first Field Nature is determined by whichever leading mon is slowest. After this, the game continues as usual.
So for examples, a Dragonite and Blissey are sent out as leads. The Blissey, with its Careful (+spdef, -spa) nature is slower, and sets the Field Nature. Now both mons attack with their SpDef stat, and defend with their SpA!
The Dragonite switches out to a Lando-T with Modest nature (+spa, -atk). This has partial overlap with Careful (+spdef, -spa), so it sets the Field Nature to Modest- now both mons attack with their SpA, and defend with their Atk!
The current Field Nature is displayed to both players at all times.
Potential Bans and Threats:
Interesting things to consider: Lando with a -atk nature like Modest can now use Intimidate offensively to drop the opponents defending stat by 1 on switchin. Chlorophyll or Swift Swim might look really threatening as something like Barraskewda can switch in and get +2 base 136 offensive stat right away, but it could be stopped by a switchin that changes the attacking stat from speed. A mon with all-round (or at least more than 2) good stats is harder to pacify with a switchin, while a mon with a couple of really high stats is higher risk higher reward. Moves that drop your own stats might be a non-issue if they arent one of the currently used stats- for instance Draco Meteor from a Bold Gouging Fire. Mons can now use physical/special moves from their movepools without issue as both are used off of the same attacking stat. Self-boosting moves that didn't matter much before can now become more threatening. You can have some really monstrous mons in the meta, as I'll show below, but they do best when they can change the Field Nature. You need to therefore create a situation where they'll switch in on an overlapping Field Nature.
Landorus with a Modest (+spa-atk) nature is pretty nice since intimidate drops the opponent's defending stat in a Modest Field Nature. That means this lando can actually hit like a truck despite its "lower" offensive stat.
Cyclizar can potentially defend with its excellent 121 speed in a Brave Field Nature, which paired with Regenerator makes it hard to take down. It also attacks with its 95 attack, meaning that it can spam Draco Meteor endlessly without suffering any downsides as long as it controls the stats on the field.
Drednaw @ Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Surf
Drednaw can run Swift Swim to become immediately very threatening in a Timid Field Nature, having +2 speed and then also using that to increase its 74 offensive stat while also having a tanky 115 defending stat. With its bulk it can get off multiple Shell Smashes, which drops only unused stats and grants +2 in its defensive AND offensive stats. However, it'll struggle if the opponent can easily change the Field Nature so it has to attack with its dropped Defense or Special Defense.
Questions for the community
-Do you like how the starting Field Nature is chosen?
-Any monstrous threats? Im thinking some swift swimmers and chloros could be broken right away, and speed is a standout threatening attacking stat
-Can mons which dont work in all Field Natures (like cyclizar) see play?
-How might the metagame shape up? Are defensive or offensive strategies best?
Id also add, there is a reason why I made it so you need to have partial overlap to change the Field Nature instead of every switch changes the Field Nature- and that is because it seemed way too easy to pacify opposing Pokemon with stall tactics. I think this will limit that kind of strategy and give more mons the chance to deal damage when they manage to get in. Maintaining either the defensive choice or offensive choice from the mon with tempo means that they retain some of their strength against the switchin and can't just be completely neutered.
Also, Field Nature is separate to the nature on the Pokemon on the field. A Modest Field Nature doesnt mean both mons are affected by the Modest boost (+10%spa, -10%atk) it just means that both Pokemon are attacking with Spa and defending with Atk. The mon's individual natures however, DO affect their own personal stats.
Its supposed to be a wacky meta that doesnt just change things in a static way in the teambuilder, but also the in-game choices by both players will shift how the mons interact. I reckon that games in Natural Order would be very unique.
This sounds similar to that Metagame where your attacks use your highest non-HP stat (Full Potential I believe).
Seems way to hard to actually play with each of the offensive and defensive stats constantly changing. Would recommend making the concept simpler.
2) I got your set analyses, and I understand the approach in theory, but I think it would be a nightmare to handle in practical. As you indirectly said with Drednaw, getting setup conveniently is not much dependant of your mon's nature than the opponent's, which means you have to pray that your opponent switching doesn't impact your game plan too much. This fact is relevant for both sides, so I would suggest that the Field Nature is definitive and determined by the first of both Pokémon to appear in battle ;
I think this is pretty interesting, gunna think about that idea and maybe a less frequent reset. Such as after KO, your switchin could determine the field nature until the next KO.
thanks for the overall feedback
I am going to finally share a terrible idea I had. It's not really that serious, just funny to think about. Without further ado: Failed Potential So ya know how full potential makes it so pokemon use their highest stat for attacking? Well this has pokemon using their lowest stat offensively. Deoxys-A with 180 base attack? Too bad, that's going off of 20 base defenses. This would hypothetically (if I thought it had a chance of working) Ubers based to help raise the power level.
Now why wouldn't this work? Stall. It's stall. Everyone's offense is obliterated, so defensive mons would thrive. I feel like stall would completely overrun the meta and make every game very similar and slow. If you want to prove me wrong, go ahead, but this is the reason this isn't a serious submission.
Anyways hypothetical ban/watchlist
Arceus: I mean, obviously. 120 is immense in a meta like this, even if it can barely invest in it.
Chi yu: 80 offenses is around average here, but the ability just amplifies this hugely. It might not be as broken as I think, but definitely something to keep an eye on.
Falinks: No retreat would allow falinks to achieve truly astronomical stats (by these standards anyways). If invested properly, it could achieve a 321 attacking stats, on par with magearna.
Magearna: Actually, magearna gave me an interesting idea. Pokemon could run setup moves to raise lower stats and instead use their higher base stats. In magearna's case, it could use shift gear to increase both its speed and attack to use its base 115 defenses offensively. In this hypothetical meta, this would likely become one of the main strats, but for now keep an eye on magearna.
Also because the meta would be stall anyways.
Terapagos: Similar to magearna, it could use rapid spin to increase its speed and start using its above average attack. Even better, it can invest in its attack before having to go into other stats. Because of how stifled offensive power is, its defenses could shine and give it opportunities to set up and attack.
Ya know, if it weren't for stall.
Thwackey: This is all hypothetical anyways so screw you I can do what I want.
I mean if u guys could find a way around stall, that would be great, but for now this is just funny to think about.
I am going to finally share a terrible idea I had. It's not really that serious, just funny to think about. Without further ado: Failed Potential So ya know how full potential makes it so pokemon use their highest stat for attacking? Well this has pokemon using their lowest stat offensively. Deoxys-A with 180 base attack? Too bad, that's going off of 20 base defenses. This would hypothetically (if I thought it had a chance of working) Ubers based to help raise the power level.
I mean, this was never a serious idea anyways. Just something that has potential to be interesting but is held back by something that really can't be ignored. Also I feel like it differs enough from full potential that it would be able to stand on its own other than the glaring flaws. One thing I like is that you have to put in weird investments to get the most out of your stats. But again, stall, funny hypothetical.
Metagame premise: All Pokemon have 1HP and have Wonder Guard added to their original ability.
Potential bans and threats: Sand/Mold Breaker are the only things I see getting an instaban. Entry hazards might be bannable. Threats might include Magic Guard/Magic Bounce Pokemon like Clefable and Hatterene. Linked here is a potential moveset for Clefable.
Questions for the community: Does allowing Terastallization sound healthy for the metagame? Are there any strategies which might be too overbearing to play against?
Metagame premise: All Pokemon have 1HP and have Wonder Guard added to their original ability.
Potential bans and threats: Sand/Mold Breaker are the only things I see getting an instaban. Entry hazards might be bannable. Threats might include Magic Guard/Magic Bounce Pokemon like Clefable and Hatterene. Linked here is a potential moveset for Clefable.
Questions for the community: Does allowing Terastallization sound healthy for the metagame? Are there any strategies which might be too overbearing to play against?
Metagame premise: All Pokemon have 1HP and have Wonder Guard added to their original ability.
Potential bans and threats: Sand/Mold Breaker are the only things I see getting an instaban. Entry hazards might be bannable. Threats might include Magic Guard/Magic Bounce Pokemon like Clefable and Hatterene. Linked here is a potential moveset for Clefable.
Questions for the community: Does allowing Terastallization sound healthy for the metagame? Are there any strategies which might be too overbearing to play against?
If you want a more complete answer, this one in particular is just too limiting to be interesting, you pretty much just run anti wonder guard strategies with no much on between and anything that could change the dynamic by mixing it with their other ability will most likely be just broken so you just end with a very lame version of ph.
Metagame Premise: If a Pokemon uses a Nature where their highest non-HP stat is lowered and their smallest non-HP stat is raised, the stat being raised gets Doubled instead. Example:
Kingambit’s highest non-HP stat is Atk and it’s lowest non-HP stat is Spe.
With 252 Spe EVs and Neutral Nature, Kingambit would have 199 Speed.
With 252 Spe EVs and Jolly, Kingambit would have 218 Speed.
However, with With 252 Spe EVs and Timid, Kingambit would have 398 Speed instead.
Kingdra is a good example to show off what happens with certain stat distributions.
Kingdra’s lowest stat is actually HP, but in this Meta, Speed is the lowest non-HP stat and will be the stat that can be doubled.
Kingdra’s highest stat is tied between Atk, Def, SpA, and SpD. In this case, the highest stat will follow similar rule to Beast Boost/Paradox abilities where it’s prioritized as Atk > Def > SpA > SpD > Spe. In this case, for Kingdra to get x2 Spe, it needs a Timid nature. In cases where the lowest stat ties, it goes in reverse order where Speed is treated the lowest.
Potential Threats:
Kingdra has a very good stat spread for a Metagame like this. Kingdra won’t miss its Atk stat that much as it has stronger special options anyways and under Rain can have 1,076 Speed (269 * 2 * 2)
Great Tusk gets the benefits of both worlds. It can have a regular set with Adamant or Impish or Jolly natures and do just fine, but additionally Great Tusk can run Calm sets to double its SpD up to 410. So Great Tusk can run regular sets, and additionally run a Specially Defensive set that greatly increases your SpD.
Likely will be Banned:
Mew and its fellow 100s club members are by far the most immediate ban worthy Pokemon. They, along with Palkia funnily enough, are tied for second highest lowest-non-HP-stat, at base 100, with Arceus having the highest at 120.
That honestly wouldn’t be so bad for a Pokemon to be so blazing fast. Deoxys-Speed is a great Pokemon that isn’t too much for OU, but in addition to having 598 Speed after Timid, Mew and Manaphy pack good bulk and amazing fire power with Nasty Plot/Tail Glow, and Mew additionally having multiple hazards and utility options too.
Jirachi is also problematic as it has boosting options like Calm Mind and utility options like Encore, Jirachi also can still use Iron Head.
Shaymin is equally as fast as other mythicals mentioned, but is more flawed. It’s options for boosting its SpA are Growth and Sword Dance (on a Pokemon that needs a negative attack nature to get that amazing speed). It also lack more utility options than the previous 3 as well as its firepower too. It definitely could be banned but it has the lowest chance of the 4.
See above as Pecharunt is pretty similar, although not as fast, strong, and being forced to lower its Def is more hurtful to Pecharunt than Atk drops the pixie would have.
Azumarill’s Speed stat being its lowest stat means it can have double Atk with Huge Power and double Speed with a Hasty nature. While Adamant would be stronger, having same Atk and Spe and fully invested Great Tusk Atk is pretty solid. That said, if it was just that, Azumarill could be arguably fine. However what I’d say pushes it over the edge is Belly Drum. Having Atk comparable to Great Tusk and Speed stat above Tapu Koko sounds over the top until you realize that Azumarill doesn’t have the highest of BP moves and its entire firepower is only from its Atk, where as Great Tusk has Protosynthesis. So normally it’d honestly not be that unstoppable. IF it wasn’t for Belly Drum. The drop in firepower Azumarill means less when you can Belly Drum and take names easily. Being faster than 131s also means more Pokemon you can Liquidate and Play Rough rather than Aqua Jet.
Questions:
1. I added the priority list for ties to simplify what happens, but would it be better to let people choose between ties? Like for example instead of just timid Kingdra you could also have Jolly Kingdra doubling the speed stat since SpA is also Kingdra’s highest stat too.
2. In some cases of mid-battle form changes, some Pokemon’s highest anf lowest stats change distribution. For example Eiscue‘s highest stat is Def and lowest stat is Speed, meanwhile Eiscue-noice’s highest stat is Speed and its lowest stat is SpD. Should Hasty still double Speed after changing form, or should the nature only provide a +10% bonus to speed like it normally would?
3. Changing the nature bonus from +10% to +100% sounds most natural (ironically) but feel free to say how much you think it be a higher bonus or a lower bonus.
Metagame Premise: If a Pokemon uses a Nature where their highest non-HP stat is lowered and their smallest non-HP stat is raised, the stat being raised gets Doubled instead. Example:
Kingambit’s highest non-HP stat is Atk and it’s lowest non-HP stat is Spe.
With 252 Spe EVs and Neutral Nature, Kingambit would have 199 Speed.
With 252 Spe EVs and Jolly, Kingambit would have 218 Speed.
However, with With 252 Spe EVs and Timid, Kingambit would have 398 Speed instead.
Kingdra is a good example to show off what happens with certain stat distributions.
Kingdra’s lowest stat is actually HP, but in this Meta, Speed is the lowest non-HP stat and will be the stat that can be doubled.
Kingdra’s highest stat is tied between Atk, Def, SpA, and SpD. In this case, the highest stat will follow similar rule to Beast Boost/Paradox abilities where it’s prioritized as Atk > Def > SpA > SpD > Spe. In this case, for Kingdra to get x2 Spe, it needs a Timid nature. In cases where the lowest stat ties, it goes in reverse order where Speed is treated the lowest.
Potential Threats and Bans:
Kingdra has a very good stat spread for a Metagame like this. Kingdra won’t miss its Atk stat that much as it has stronger special options anyways and under Rain can have 1,076 Speed (269 * 2 * 2)
Azumarill’s Speed stat being its lowest stat means it can have double Atk with Huge Power and double Speed with a Hasty nature. While Adamant would be stronger, having same Atk and Spe and fully invested Great Tusk Atk is pretty solid.
Great Tusk gets the benefits of both worlds. It can have a regular set with Adamant or Impish or Jolly natures and do just fine, but additionally Great Tusk can run Calm sets to double its SpD up to 410. So Great Tusk can run regular sets, and additionally run a Specially Defensive set that greatly increases your SpD.
Questions:
1. I added the priority list for ties to simplify what happens, but would it be better to let people choose between ties? Like for example instead of just timid Kingdra you could also have Jolly Kingdra doubling the speed stat since SpA is also Kingdra’s highest stat too.
2. In some cases of mid-battle form changes, some Pokemon’s highest anf lowest stats change distribution. For example Eiscue‘s highest stat is Def and lowest stat is Speed, meanwhile Eiscue-noice’s highest stat is Speed and its lowest stat is SpD. Should Hasty still double Speed after changing form, or should the nature only provide a +10% bonus to speed like it normally would?
3. Changing the nature bonus from +10% to +100% sounds most natural (ironically) but feel free to say how much you think it be a higher bonus or a lower bonus.
second of all, there are far more potential threats. just sorting all pokemon by BST shows a lot of potentially ludicrously broken pokemon in this format, such as regigigas, zamazenta, garchomp, darkrai, tyranitar, jirachi, goodra hisu, kyurem, landorus-t, and manaphy
other things to consider:
vikavolt, iron hands, comkeldurr
second of all, there are far more potential threats. just sorting all pokemon by BST shows a lot of potentially ludicrously broken pokemon in this format, such as regigigas, zamazenta, garchomp, darkrai, tyranitar, jirachi, goodra hisu, kyurem, landorus-t, and manaphy
other things to consider:
vikavolt, iron hands, comkeldurr
Another threat I had in mind is // and the other 100s mythicals, which is why the priority of stats exists. Mew can reach up to 598 Speed, which is 50 more speed than Regieleki at Max speed and would outspeed neutral nature 249 base speed. Also all 3 get some way to boost their SpA with Nasty Plot, Tail Glow, and Calm Mind.
Also to clear things up, Darkrai’s lowest stat would be SpD and only SpD. When lowest stats are tied, it’ll consider Spe > SpD > SpA > Def > Atk, the opposite of the highest stat.
Unless people feel like letting you choose between tied stats would be better and less restrictive, which case Darkrai could definitely run Physical sets too.
&
Lando with a -atk nature like Modest can now use Intimidate offensively to drop the opponents defending stat by 1 on switchin.
Chlorophyll or Swift Swim might look really threatening as something like Barraskewda can switch in and get +2 base 136 offensive stat right away, but it could be stopped by a switchin that changes the attacking stat from speed.
Moves that drop your own stats might be a non-issue if they arent one of the currently used stats- for instance Draco Meteor from a Bold Gouging Fire.
Mons can now use physical/special moves from their movepools without issue as both are used off of the same attacking stat.
Self-boosting moves that didn't matter much before can now become more threatening.
You can have some really monstrous mons in the meta, as I'll show below, but they do best when they can change the Field Nature. You need to therefore create a situation where they'll switch in on an overlapping Field Nature.
