Serious The Politics Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/11/biden-press-conference-nato-updates

Not a good look from your current president on the international stage to put it mildly, its obvious as hell at this point that Parkinson's deteriorating his memories and overall mental health at a alarming rate. Again even if political scientists are right at this point, its a absolute joke that Dems establishment has let it come down to this extremely dire situation with no suitable successor of 81 years old Biden to fight against the wannabe dictator from a at this point completely anti-democratic party in the first place.
He also referred to Harris as "Vice President Trump" during today's presser. It's not looking good.

President Biden just successfully LED the NATO summit, with great respect from our European Allies. He offered clear detailed grasp on foreign policy in the presser. He does not have fucking dementia or Parkinson’s.

But yes, he should resign for making two gaffes today! Jesus Christ, the problem in America isn’t the DNC…it’s the populace and media’s disdain for actual governance. At this point, I don’t even think the United States wants to be a serious country anymore.
 
He also referred to Harris as "Vice President Trump" during today's presser. It's not looking good.

Have to hand it to him, this one is a power play. Man isn't even a president, just a vice.

In non presidential (maybe?) news, you guys probably saw it but there was a breach for project 2025. Always funny when it's furries doing it though, you can really tell these guys are frothing at the mouth to be able to own a gun and mass shoot a furry con. It's like a tier below gay people and black people on how much they want to do it.
1720747405120.jpeg


Mike howell also had a meltdown on twitter about it. He didn't even say his opinions on vore :/
 

Attachments

  • 1720747559848.jpeg
    1720747559848.jpeg
    222.3 KB · Views: 75
President Biden just successfully LED the NATO summit, with great respect from our European Allies. He offered clear detailed grasp on foreign policy in the presser. He does not have fucking dementia or Parkinson’s.

But yes, he should resign for making two gaffes today! Jesus Christ, the problem in America isn’t the DNC…it’s the populace and media’s disdain for actual governance. At this point, I don’t even think the United States wants to be a serious country anymore.

genocide joe leading the nato summit and preparing to send another $ billion for palestinian genocide are not good things.........
so yes when "actual governance" means genocide we have disdain for it.

why would it even be relevant whether he has parkinsons
 
President Biden just successfully LED the NATO summit, with great respect from our European Allies. He offered clear detailed grasp on foreign policy in the presser. He does not have fucking dementia or Parkinson’s.

But yes, he should resign for making two gaffes today! Jesus Christ, the problem in America isn’t the DNC…it’s the populace and media’s disdain for actual governance. At this point, I don’t even think the United States wants to be a serious country anymore.
Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't make that much of it. However, in light of the recent debate performance, as well as a Parkinson's specialist visiting the White House eight times in eight months, gaffs that any other President could easily brush aside take on greater significance.
In non presidential (maybe?) news, you guys probably saw it but there was a breach for project 2025. Always funny when it's furries doing it though, you can really tell these guys are frothing at the mouth to be able to own a gun and mass shoot a furry con. It's like a tier below gay people and black people on how much they want to do it.
View attachment 647079

Mike howell also had a meltdown on twitter about it. He didn't even say his opinions on vore :/
You love to see it.
 
Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't make that much of it. However, in light of the recent debate performance, as well as a Parkinson's specialist visiting the White House eight times in eight months, gaffs that any other President could easily brush aside take on greater significance.

The Parkinson’s story has already been debunked. He wasn’t even at the White House during those visits. Remember, they have been working to get the Parkinson’s Bill signed, which did last week.

The state of disinformation these days is insane. At what point do we question the corporate media that is driving bullshit for engagement?
 
RaikouLover , I'm curious, what would it take for you to believe that Biden is in mental decline? Would he have to yell "Oogledy Boogledy Moogledy" at a State of the Union Address for 5 minutes? Would 30 minutes be enough? How many gaffs does Biden have to make, how many straight up nonsensical sentences does he have to string together, for you to maybe be curious that something is wrong with him?

Edit: think I tagged the wrong person cause I fatfingered on mobile, apologies.
 
RaikouLover , I'm curious, what would it take for you to believe that Biden is in mental decline? Would he have to yell "Oogledy Boogledy Moogledy" at a State of the Union Address for 5 minutes? Would 30 minutes be enough? How many gaffs does Biden have to make, how many straight up nonsensical sentences does he have to string together, for you to maybe be curious that something is wrong with him?

Edit: think I tagged the wrong person cause I fatfingered on mobile, apologies.

He is an 81 year old man. Nothing is visibly wrong with him that is not otherwise expected of an 81 year old man. And that's really what this is about, isn't it?

Again, gaffes and debates have nothing to do with how elections are decided. If people could objectively take a step back this is frankly the dumbest two weeks of politics in modern history. Trying to oust your own incumbent President for a "bad debate" and "gaffes" is stupid as hell. And the Democratic Party is barreling towards blowing the whole shit up in their faces.
 
He is an 81 year old man. Nothing is visibly wrong with him that is not otherwise expected of an 81 year old man. And that's really what this is about, isn't it?

Again, gaffes and debates have nothing to do with how elections are decided. If people could objectively take a step back this is frankly the dumbest two weeks of politics in modern history. Trying to oust your own incumbent President for a "bad debate" and "gaffes" is stupid as hell. And the Democratic Party is barreling towards blowing the whole shit up in their faces.

I was also asking a direct question here. What would it take for you to consider that Biden is mentally deficient?
 
Man it is depressing to watch that Press Conference. Not so much because of the mistakes, but because we are reminded of the accomplishments and brave stances that Biden made that others wouldn’t have in this term. If it’s possible to put Gaza aside (I know hard with genocide and over 180k Gaza bodies on Biden’s shoulders)— there were many, many, many times Joe was willing to do what other President put off, feared, or faked—to take responsibility where it was needed. And one sad thing is that the vast majority of Americans probably don’t see that service either.

I fully expect Kamala to be far more beholden to powerful interests, and far more meek and cowardly on moral questions than Biden.

Grandpa Joe will seriously be missed. Thank you for your service.
 
I was also asking a direct question. What would it take for you to consider that Biden is mentally not all there?

Short term memory loss, inability to answer questions, repeating the same questions back multiple times in a few minutes, and angry outbursts.

Ironically, convicted felon Trump is halfway there. My 73 year old aunt has dementia. Biden is fine for an 81 year old man.


Man it is depressing to watch that Press Conference. Not so much because of the mistakes, but because we are reminded of the accomplishments and brave stances that Biden made that others wouldn’t have.

I fully expect Kamala to be far more beholden to powerful interests, and far more meek and cowardly on moral questions than Biden.

Grandpa Joe will seriously be missed. Thank you for your service.

And she has a weaker chance of defeating convicted felon Trump. So why are you supporting the change?
 
The Raikoulover I knew in his sound mind would understand that none of that matters now.

Of course it matters. There was a primary. President Biden won overwhelmingly in both 2020 and 2024. If you recognize and appreciate his accomplishments as President, why submit to the donor-led party coup?

I think people will be in for a rude awakening when the see the amount of sexist and racist vitriol from the press coming down the pipes towards Harris should she be elevated to the top of the ticket. As for any other nominee, they will implode the party and the Republicans are already ready to contest the hell out of the ballot changes.

EDIT: Interesting text book example of how our media is characterizing the press conference:
He spoke about gun violence and taxes; Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and China’s economic leverage over Europe. But at this perilous point in Biden’s candidacy, policy positions aren’t necessarily what his audience needed to hear. As he struggles to recover from his debate performance last month, Biden is being judged less on the substance of his answers than the style and clarity of his delivery. Democratic leaders are mulling whether to force him off the ticket. To stanch the rebellion, Biden, 81, needs to prove that he can speak in the crisp, confident tones that voters, or at least the members of his party, expect of a president.

We are not a serious country.
 
Last edited:
I dont doubt a felons ability to gain the presidency because that sure did happen in brazil (yes hes an ex-felon and the charges were false and us intervention as always but thats not as funny. cmon.) hopefully bolsonaro gets the felon label so we get a double whammy
 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/11/biden-press-conference-nato-updates

Not a good look from your current president on the international stage to put it mildly, its obvious as hell at this point that Parkinson's deteriorating his memories and overall mental health at a alarming rate. Again even if political scientists are right at this point, its a absolute joke that Dems establishment has let it come down to this extremely dire situation with no suitable successor of 81 years old Biden to fight against the wannabe dictator from a at this point completely anti-democratic party in the first place.

I think Biden's exactly the candidate the Dem establishment wanted and deserves. Not my problem
 
President Biden just successfully LED the NATO summit, with great respect from our European Allies. He offered clear detailed grasp on foreign policy in the presser. He does not have fucking dementia or Parkinson’s.

But yes, he should resign for making two gaffes today! Jesus Christ, the problem in America isn’t the DNC…it’s the populace and media’s disdain for actual governance. At this point, I don’t even think the United States wants to be a serious country anymore.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, the media wants Trump in office. These sorts of gaffes happened under Trump all the damn time without any scrutiny. Personally what really gets me about this is that it's the same people who would in the past insist I'm parroting CNN or whatever are the ones feeding into this the hardest. White Westerners overwhelmingly WANT fascism, even if it's the ones who pretend to be leftists.
 
It’s so Joever. I mean regardless of what’s said here, the Dems are not as disconnected from reality as Raikoulover. We’re going to get the mass open revolt or even 25th amendment shortly incoming.

It’s gonna be President Trump, or Vice President Trump— and it MUST be her.

Imagine accusing someone of being disconnected from reality and then telling everyone your fantasy of dropping an incumbent candidate four months before an election is a winning move. American libs truly fucking love losing
 
Again, gaffes and debates have nothing to do with how elections are decided.
Despite our clear disagreements in some areas, I've been following your thinking up to this point; but this statement is completely farcical. Debates have nothing to do with how elections are decided? Are you serious? Gaffs, sure. Bush had plenty of gaffs, and he still got elected twice. Debates, though? Pure madness.

For the record, I'll be voting for the Democrat in November regardless of who it is; and I'm not convinced that any of Biden's would-be replacements stand a better chance than he does. However, I also understand why liberals are hitting the panic button. These past weeks have damaged my optimism substantially.
 
Of course it matters. There was a primary. President Biden won overwhelmingly in both 2020 and 2024. If you recognize and appreciate his accomplishments as President, why submit to the donor-led party coup?

I think people will be in for a rude awakening when the see the amount of sexist and racist vitriol from the press coming down the pipes towards Harris should she be elevated to the top of the ticket. As for any other nominee, they will implode the party and the Republicans are already ready to contest the hell out of the ballot changes.

EDIT: Interesting text book example of how our media is characterizing the press conference:


We are not a serious country.


Again i understand all that and my grievances comes entirely that there was no viable younger candidate (so no, not Sanders) propped over the last 4 years. Unlike others here i agree that dropping Biden at this point would be donating the presidency to Donald Trump 10x more who for the matter is really weak compared to 2016. I think this was more a mistake for the future of the democratic party than this election in 4 months.

Edit: Also yes, outside of those 2 gaffs his answers in that NATO press conference were indeed coherent.
 
Last edited:
Just chiming in as a non-american leftist that raikoulover was largely correct about their predictions in the last politics thread four years ago and nothing they've been arguing for is unreasonable or especially unlikely in this one. I'm skeptical about Biden's chances as I think he is under weighting public perception of Biden's mental state but it's very easy to get caught up in narrative and emotional hysteria when inundated by media sources shouting as one.
 
Despite our clear disagreements in some areas, I've been following your thinking up to this point; but this statement is completely farcical. Debates have nothing to do with how elections are decided? Are you serious? Gaffs, sure. Bush had plenty of gaffs, and he still got elected twice. Debates, though? Pure madness.

Yes. They don’t matter. Hillary mopped the floor with felon during their debates. John Kerry with Bush. Romney did better than Obama. There’s no correlation between debates and winning.

However, I also understand why liberals are hitting the panic button. These past weeks have damaged my optimism substantially.
gaffes and debates would seem to be a big chunk of how the current election is being decided

Debates are not how elections are decided, which is why this saga is disastrous for the goal of beating convicted felon Trump. Do liberals want to feel good or do they want to win? At their core, Republicans understand this. That’s why they are eating popcorn watching the Democrats blow themselves up.
 
The democrats cooked themselves because they just kept hanging on biden. The gaffs are funny but even if he was completely healthy, he still had an extremely unpopular mandate nailed by awful covid practices and the genocide of gaza on his shoulders.

Fundamentally, no democrat would do different because they have no incentive to do so and I think all the options people talk about are as worthless as genocide joe (the way libs flipped about kamala being a cop into being the salvation of the party is mad funny tho. still think shes a little worm of a person), but it's the optics of it all that people still believe in and they completely fumbled. Now what do you do? None of these candidates have any voting power but also I don't think biden is as guaranteed despite it all, I think he's still struggling from his mandates infamy. Also I don't think we have to defend his health here, he IS going thru it. If you think it matters or not that's another point but like, there's no denying

While the media swings right wing, I think the reason trump is being underreported is less because of that but more because... he's just doing the same shit as 2016 and 2020 lol. And voting wise his voters dont gaf about him being a felon, and undecided/abstain voters in general also dgaf about trump by itself, they're basing their decisions on biden.

They're both imperialist hawks with dogshit international policies so at the end of the day they're the same for things that matters to me, and the domestic policies aren't looking that great either. Maybe we should throw electorialism out fellas and do something else
 
Prediction isn’t really useful/important, but as far as it goes— if you didn’t expect Trump to beat Hillary, you’re not in my running as a potentially credible predictor.
 
It's very easy to say a prediction was the clear, correct choice after it already came true. I think you're caught up in hindsight to say the only credible predictors were those who got one prediction correct. Like, if one failed prediction is all it takes to remove a predictor from credibility, I think you will find zero credible predictors on anything. I mean, I could read your dislike of prediction in general as acknowledgment that you won't find any predictors you like, but at that point the Hillary Trump election is moot anyway.

Unlikely and unexpected events happen sometimes. In these cases, picking the favorite is always the best prediction, but it will inevitably go wrong sometimes. If the Chiefs play the Jets in 100 NFL games, the right prediction is "Chiefs" every single time, but that will inevitably be wrong sometimes, even dozens of times. Even the best predictor can't always win. The right choice is to acknowledge the underdog event as unlikely and unexpected, but possible.

Particularly in the context of American general presidential elections, even though favorites often exist, the single-round, one person v. one person format gives plenty of room for volatility, so you can have underdogs who still have legitimate chances to win. I have more credibility for predictors who acknowledged the favorite of HC but acknowledged they might get upset (like 538, which gave Trump about a 30% chance of winning), and less credibility for predictors who thought the election was a foregone conclusion. To put my cards on the table, my personal gut read was that that Trump had about 1/3 chance of winning, so pretty similar to 538 there.
 
The democrats cooked themselves because they just kept hanging on biden. The gaffs are funny but even if he was completely healthy, he still had an extremely unpopular mandate nailed by awful covid practices and the genocide of gaza on his shoulders.

This is hindsight speak though. And voter expectation is partially to blame for this. I do think some voters (mistakenly) felt that Joe Biden declaring himself a "bridge" candidate in 2020 meant he was going to voluntarily be a one-term President. The reality is that is a politically untenable position to execute in practice. The moment a candidate declares they will only be one term is the moment they become a lame duck President. There is no incentive for lawmakers to work with that President to get anything done. That POTUS has a known expiration date. This is where the media should be framing open primaries as doing the job of POTUS for eight years, not four.

Furthermore, had Biden declared earlier this term he was not running for re-election, the same problem of incumbency loss remains. Sure, Democrats potentially get to nominate a shiny new young candidate. History shows that new candidates are simply less likely to win than incumbents. That new candidate comes from a brutal contested primary and loses the status quo bias.

It's very easy to say a prediction was the clear, correct choice after it already came true. I think you're caught up in hindsight to say the only credible predictors were those who got one prediction correct. Like, if one failed prediction is all it takes to remove a predictor from credibility, I think you will find zero credible predictors on anything. I mean, I could read your dislike of prediction in general as acknowledgment that you won't find any predictors you like, but at that point the Hillary Trump election is moot anyway.

Unlikely and unexpected events happen sometimes. In these cases, picking the favorite is always the best prediction, but it will inevitably go wrong sometimes. If the Chiefs play the Jets in 100 NFL games, the right prediction is "Chiefs" every single time, but that will inevitably be wrong sometimes, even dozens of times. Even the best predictor can't always win. The right choice is to acknowledge the underdog event as unlikely and unexpected, but possible.

Particularly in the context of American general presidential elections, even though favorites often exist, the single-round, one person v. one person format gives plenty of room for volatility, so you can have underdogs who still have legitimate chances to win. I have more credibility for predictors who acknowledged the favorite of HC but acknowledged they might get upset (like 538, which gave Trump about a 30% chance of winning), and less credibility for predictors who thought the election was a foregone conclusion. To put my cards on the table, my personal gut read was that that Trump had about 1/3 chance of winning, so pretty similar to 538 there.

^^Agree with all of this.

Prediction isn’t really useful/important, but as far as it goes— if you didn’t expect Trump to beat Hillary, you’re not in my running as a potentially credible predictor.

Just echoing the comment above, this is flawed take on how to view probabilistic data. Since we are talking 538, this cycle has shown Biden vs. Trump consistently between 52-48 in either direction odds of winning which they correctly state is a coin flip. Some people mistakenly believe that saying President Biden has a 51% chance of winning means he is "predicted" to win. That's literally coinflip odds.

In the case of 2016 Hillary vs. Trump, 538 said Trump had about a 30% of winning. That is no where close to nonzero odds. To recap in pokemon terms:

Gengar (Hillary) used Focus Blast!
Gengar (Hillary)'s attack missed!
Tyranitar (Trump) used Crunch!
It's super effective!
Gengar (Hillary) lost 100% of its health!
Gengar (Hillary) fainted!

Come on man how often has this happened to you? lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top