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Other Metagames Custom Game Team (300th Post)

So I realized that this team is kinda fire but I tried around with some other mons(prob the only time I'm posting) and made some ideas

wg volcanion is interesting as wildfire and cannonade immunity is nice. It fails however due to spore and common stuff.

No guard calyrex-s cleans most games with sheer cold and fissure and has moongeist been to hit hard

Ogerpon forms and terapagos stellar are strong but a locked tera means it's value kinda isn't good(I haven't tried ogerpon yet but it's prob worst than Arceus grass with infiltrator)

Wg Alolan Muk is interesting and realistically only t-arrows will be hitting you and ur immune to photon geyser which is the most common mold breaker move. but then you realise that sunsteel strike zacian-c is common enough to be a problem and perish trap+encore is a common issue

Speaking of zacian-c, wg is kinda mid. it doesn't have 17 pp rev bless like comatalk or perish trapping or the sheer power from hugepower/no guard. being immune to everything except t-arrows and precipice blades is great but overall seems kinda mid.

I don't want this to get too long(since this thread is kinda dead) but these were just kinda myideas for custom game(though if it wasn't pm only then ig ppl would have more competent sets and NOT force me to the cg bot) but yea. What are your opinions or ideas on cg?
 
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A6A said:
Mostly I was bored at Pure Hackmons until i saw the team
So I created my own 2 teams (Red's team (the one above EeveeWillEatYou's message) and Pokestar Studios team)
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Funnily enough I think he was talking to aerobee. also half the thread is aerobee's team the other half is you spamming 'help pls make my goddamn gimmick team' (no offense)
 
HunterNeverHere9 said:
So I realized that this team is kinda fire but I tried around with some other mons(prob the only time I'm posting) and made some ideas

wg volcanion is interesting as wildfire and cannonade immunity is nice. It fails however due to spore and common stuff.

No guard calyrex-s cleans most games with sheer cold and fissure and has moongeist been to hit hard

Ogerpon forms and terapagos stellar are strong but a locked tera means it's value kinda isn't good(I haven't tried ogerpon yet but it's prob worst than Arceus grass with infiltrator)

Wg Alolan Muk is interesting and realistically only t-arrows will be hitting you and ur immune to photon geyser which is the most common mold breaker move. but then you realise that sunsteel strike zacian-c is common enough to be a problem and perish trap+encore is a common issue

Speaking of zacian-c, wg is kinda mid. it doesn't have 17 pp rev bless like comatalk or perish trapping or the sheer power from hugepower/no guard. being immune to everything except t-arrows and precipice blades is great but overall seems kinda mid.

I don't want this to get too long(since this thread is kinda dead) but these were just kinda myideas for custom game(though if it wasn't pm only then ig ppl would have more competent sets and NOT force me to the cg bot) but yea. What are your opinions or ideas on cg?
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for Red's team i did

WG Pikachu with Ability Shield is a good defensive pkmn and has Double Shock to get rid of its Electric typing. It fails however to wildire, cannonade, etc. Tera Grass to remove Ground type weakness.

Magic Bounce Mega Venusaur with Ability Shield is another good defensive pkmn bc it loves hazard removal. Tera Dark for Psychic immunity.

Mega Charizard X, i am not very sure.

Mega Charizard Y, maybe Contrary.

Magic Guard Espeon with Life Orb is good offensive pkmn since it gets Photon Geyser and is immune to any indirect dmg such as Gulp Missile. Tera Psychic for Photon Geyser.

Mega Blastoise, I am not sure.

Snorlax is another good offensive pkmn since it gets Huge Power. Snorlax haves a similar set to MG Espeon. Tera Dark for more Beat Up.

Lapras, maybe STag

Articuno gets Magic Bounce but this time it is a baton passer. Since it is a baton passer, it can pass Quiver Dance and Focus Energy.

The rest of Red's pkmn I am not sure of

This was kinda my idea
 
Why are we reviving this thread lol(jk) but srsly. The only reason any of the mons I and aerobee tried are honestly bc there broken. emax is the fattest Mon in the game, zac-c is strong fast and has a great typing and leki is used bc it's the fastest Mon in the game. stuff like your Pikachu and zard won't rlly cut it cos imo ur trying to make a theme team competent without realizing the main part of building a team in cg is the mons
 
HallowedHarlequin said:
I can't believe I read this whole writeup. There's something morbidly fascinating about seeing what's common/optimal in such an unhinged format. Bravo! How many turns do battles normally go?
Also, would teching False Swipe on something to cheese past Innards Out ever be worthwhile? I'm guessing not, but it's funny to think about.
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most battles are 100+ turns
I mean its 24 Pokemon, some of them with wonder guard so it's gonna be long.
 
aerobee said:
Screenshot_2023-07-26_at_7.02.35_PM.png

Screenshot_2023-07-26_at_7.10.49_PM.png

I originally wanted to get to 250-0 or 300-0 before posting an update, but I got bored of spamming games in Lobby, people stopped responding to my requests for fear of getting destroyed, and I don't think Lobby staff appreciate me asking for games every 5 minutes while contributing nothing of note to the room. So user TaxFraud Zero Nine Four of The Anything Goes Room advised me to get to 225-0, and here I am.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

MAJOR UPDATES:

- Made Prankster Eternamax an actual hardcounter to Assist teams, since it didn't fully beat them before. Added 3/4 G-Max chip moves (Wildfire/Cannonade/Volcalith) since they need to be Imprisoned for Eternamax to realistically set up, as otherwise opposing Assist team members spam them until Eternamax is eventually overwhelmed. Replaced Photon Geyser with Sunsteel Strike because Air Balloon Alolan Muk otherwise hardwalls Eternamax. Replaced Ability Shield with Leppa Berry since there could be situations where Sparkly Swirl/Sunsteel Strike don't have enough PP to sweep Assist teams (for example, if Arceus-Dark, an optimal pick for Assist teams, is spammed), since Dark-types are very important on Assist teams since they provide counterplay to Prankster users while also being able to run Prankster themselves. This does make Prankster Eternamax weaker into opposing Neutralizing Gas users, but Hadron Engine Eternamax is a good enough answer to them that this shouldn't really matter. Tera Grass for opposing Spore and G-Max Vine Lash if necessary. Eternamax keeps its utility as a Prankster user against non-Neutralizing Gas foes, as I removed what I believed to be the most inconsequential moves on the original set.
- Replaced Shadow Tag Regieleki with Leftovers ComaBlessing Eternamax. Eternamax is over 3 times as bulky as neutral nature Zacian-C, meaning it has far more chances to use Sleep Talk Revival Blessing, though this comes at the cost of Zacian-C's Speed tier and a reduced offensive presence. Eternamax has a similar set to Comatose Zacian-C, though there are a few changes to accommodate for Eternamax's typing, namely Clangorous Soulblaze and Dynamax Cannon. G-Max Befuddle and G-Max Smite were also added, because the potential Sleep chance/Confusion are useful utility against opposing demon/setup sweepers. Tera Normal for Last Respects.
- Replaced Slaking with Ludicolo for a few reasons: Ludicolo is immune to Spore and therefore has a better matchup against Neutralizing Gas Regieleki, it doesn’t get chipped by G-Max Cannonade/Vine Lash, it blocks Final Gambit (meaning after the change I have 3 Final Gambit switch-ins), and happens to fully Imposter-proof Zekrom because I forgot to run one of Noxious Torque/Floaty Fall somewhere. Modified Ludicolo's moveset accordingly; some important changes are Spore as Magic Bounce doesn't screw Ludicolo over, G-Max Volt Crash over G-Max Befuddle because Ludicolo is weak to Bug, and Thousand Waves because being Spore-immune allows Ludicolo to handle Wonder Guard sweeper Regieleki much more easily.
- Changed Mega Audino's moveset to more effectively deter opposing sweeper Eternamax. Core Enforcer removes Good as Gold once the opposing Eternamax's Ability Shield has been removed, Heart Swap allows for removing stat changes from the opponent if they do not have functional Good as Gold, and Court Change allows for redirecting any G-Max chip moves used back to Eternamax, as it often needs multiple Shell Smash boosts to break through Mega Audino and heavily chipping it beforehand is preferred.
- Added Court Change on a few Pokemon, as I learned after creating this RMT that G-Max chip moves are considered field effects, and therefore are affected by the move. Swapping hazards (and occasionally screens) have also been useful in many of my games.
- Added Lunar Dance on a few Pokemon, since them fainting of their own accord still increases Last Respects' power and there have been situations where I'd rather have one healthy Pokemon rather than two weakened ones to handle opposing threats. Additionally, Lunar Dance + ComaBlessing, with optimal play, has the potential to make games infinitely long due to Sleep Talk Revival Blessing having more than 1 PP allowing for extra revivals if needed.


MINOR UPDATES:

- Replaced Sizzly Slide on Arceus-Ground with V-create since you need it to OHKO Mega Scizor and Kartana.
- Replaced Bonemerang and Sappy Seed on Zekrom with Thousand Arrows and Flower Trick, as Wonder Guard Alolan Muk hardwalled Zekrom without the former and Flower Trick's perfect accuracy is more valuable than Sappy Seed's secondary effect when your goal is to OHKO everything.
- Replaced Ability Shield on Blissey with Heavy-Duty Boots since I've never had to sack Blissey against Neutralizing Gas users, and hazards on the field make Blissey unable to KO healthy Eternamax if OHKOed.
- Added Tidy Up on Wonder Guard Regieleki because otherwise Magic Bounce and Good as Gold foes would be able to remove Regieleki's Substitute while it tries to set up. Replaced Tera Dark with Tera Electric because Regieleki is somewhat prone to having its attacks PP stalled while sweeping.
- Added Fissure onto Sturdy Eternamax for opposing No Guard users, since No Guard works for both Pokemon on the field.
- Added Trick on Shadow Tag Zacian-C because in my experience it's actually gotten stuck with a Choice item quite a bit, and the move allows Zacian-C to Trick it back onto a foe.
- Added Nature's Madness onto Unaware Eternamax, because not being able to break opposing sweeper Eternamax's Substitutes was problematic, especially if Last Respects was Imprisoned or not powerful enough to break opposing Substitutes in one hit.
- Added Spore on Fur Coat Eternamax because I felt like it'd be more useful than Perish Song when its main purpose is to switch into Huge Power/Orichalcum Pulse attackers.
- Replaced G-Max Stun Shock on Comatose Zacian-C with G-Max Befuddle because the secondary effect is more different from G-Max Volt Crash's, and when the move is Imprisoned G-Max Befuddle is more useful overall.


And here are some potential ideas that I haven't tried extensively yet:
- :arceus-dark: I never actually got around to perfecting an Assist team, here have an early draft https://pokepast.es/1131a19a32d0f769
- :calyrex-shadow: Outspeeds Zacian-C, could have some uses as a No Guard/Psychic Surge/Simple user. Normalize sets are bad due to Ability Shield
- :darmanitan-galar-zen: Seems suboptimal (underspeeds Zacian-C, 4x Stealth Rock weakness, low bulk against opposing offensive Pokemon) but I probably haven't given it a fair chance
- :eternatus-eternamax: Huge Power would be a little weak before using Power Trick but maybe someone can make a working set for it
- :eternatus-eternamax: Innards Out Shell Smash Eternamax sounds funny but nothing short of No Guard is reliably OHKOing you. In Gen 7 Pure Hackmons Innards Out Zygarde-C is already uncomfortably bulky at times
- :eternatus-eternamax: Magic Guard Eternamax seems useful either as support (hardcounters Assist with the right set) or as a sweeper (not chipped by G-Max chip moves/Salt Cure/Ghost Curse/Poison after Tera)
- :eternatus-eternamax: Purifying Salt Eternamax for Last Respects and the status immunity
- :eternatus-eternamax: Wonder Guard, contrary to popular belief, is actually pretty good
- :flutter mane: Wonder Guard sounds funny but probably loses hard to Zacian-C/other strong Spectral Thief and Last Respects users
- :groudon-primal: Once Primals being able to Tera is implemented I might play around with Huge Power Primal Groudon again. Jolly for Scarf Eternamax seems cool
- :hoopa-unbound: Funny offensive Wonder Guard whose only disadvantage over Pokestar Spirit is being Bug-weak (and needing a positive nature for Regieleki at +2)
- :iron bundle: Refrigerate Tail Glow sounds funny as hell but this is probably awful in practice
- :kartana: Didn't like it when I tested Wonder Guard Kartana, but maybe I just didn't use the right set
- :mewtwo-mega-x: Highest Attack in the game and STAB Photon Geyser for Huge Power sets but Speed ties with Eternamax and struggles with priority after using Shell Smash
- :mewtwo-mega-y: No Guard/Psychic Surge/Simple + Shell Smash or Tail Glow sets seem funny in theory, probably hates Beat Up/Last Respects/Spectral Thief too much to really be usable though
- :muk-alola: Walls some Good as Gold/Prankster Eternamax sweepers with Air Balloon, loses hard to Shadow Tag though
- :regieleki: Support Neutralizing Gas sounds diabolical but I don't like frail Pokemon in general, maybe someone else can abuse King's Rock Beat Up from the fastest Pokemon in the game
- :regieleki: No Guard is too frail for my liking and I actually haven't used it once but with a properly made set it might have some merit
- :slaking: If competent players start running significantly more hard offensive Pokemon I might add Huge Power Slaking again
- :ting-lu: Seems like a good Magic Bounce user in the early game since it's a fair bit bulkier than Mega Audino physically, though I'm paranoid about Last Respects in the late game and it'd be redundant with Mega Audino on the team
- :tyranitar-mega: Beat Up bot seems funny but I didn't like Speed Boost due to it not hitting some Wonder Guards hard enough
- :zacian-crowned: Huge Power gets bricked by Eternamax (could try with King's Rock Beat Up?) but it's very nice against almost everything else
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I'm not sure if I'm going to record my W/L anymore since the message kinda already gets across, but I might to see how many wins I get before someone takes me down. I'm also not going to test/update this team as often anymore, especially since BH/PH have brand new metagames to explore in a few days, though I'm probably going to find time to if I feel like it.


Importable: https://pokepast.es/859a186ba17e0f88

here's some more music btw
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Hey, what abilities and items are good for cgame
 
A6A said:
Hey, what abilities and items are good for cgame
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i heard some ppl doing vr of cgame soon. prob my last post on this forum cos ive been losing interest in the meta since there are very few competent players and fighting the bot gets repetitive and annoying but honestly i hope that this metagame just becomres an om
 
This is for my Gen 8 CGame team
L. 9999 Imposter Chansey with Eviolite
L. 9999 Magic Bounce Zacian-Crowned
L. 9999 Protean Groudon-Primal with Expert Belt
L. 9999 Protean Rayquaza-Mega with Expert Belt
L. 9999 Mold Breaker Tyranitar-Mega
L. 9999 Prankster Zygarde-Complete with Safety Goggles
 
A6A said:
Can someone help me with something?
I need help with finding a item for my Magic Bounce Zacian-Crowned.
I also need help with finding a item for my Mold Breaker Tyranitar-Mega.
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Probably lefties on zacian and lum/boots on ttar
 
Can someone help me with this Gen 8 CGame team? I am only using Gen 2-8 items + Gen 1-8 moves (no Gen 9 items and moves)
L. 9999 Imposter Chansey w/ Eviolite (Bold Nature)
L. 9999 Magic Bounce Zacian-Crowned w/ Leftovers? (Adamant Nature?)
L. 9999 Protean Groudon-Primal w/ Expert Belt (Naive Nature?)
L. 9999 Protean Rayquaza-Mega w/ Expert Belt (I have no idea what Nature to put on this mon)
L. 9999 Mold Breaker Tyranitar-Mega w/ either Lum Berry or Heavy-Duty Boots or any other item except for Gen 9 items (Jolly Nature)
L. 9999 Prankster Zygarde-Complete w/ Safety Goggles (Relaxed Nature)
 
A6A said:
Can someone help me with this Gen 8 CGame team? I am only using Gen 2-8 items + Gen 1-8 moves (no Gen 9 items and moves)
L. 9999 Imposter Chansey w/ Eviolite (Bold Nature)
L. 9999 Magic Bounce Zacian-Crowned w/ Leftovers? (Adamant Nature?)
L. 9999 Protean Groudon-Primal w/ Expert Belt (Naive Nature?)
L. 9999 Protean Rayquaza-Mega w/ Expert Belt (I have no idea what Nature to put on this mon)
L. 9999 Mold Breaker Tyranitar-Mega w/ either Lum Berry or Heavy-Duty Boots or any other item except for Gen 9 items (Jolly Nature)
L. 9999 Prankster Zygarde-Complete w/ Safety Goggles (Relaxed Nature)
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And also would this team need adjustments?
 
10/9/25 Update​

It's been well over two years since my last update. I continued to routinely play Custom Game battles until about a year and half ago, since when I've occupied myself with other formats. While I initially felt I fully addressed the original version's shortcomings in my first update, it became increasingly clear that that was far from the case. This might sound crazy but since then a few players other than myself have built their own competent Custom Game teams, and I was gradually made salient of the update's weaknesses (listed below). In late August 2023 I actually lost a game for the first time this generation, though the replay is gone. Needless to say, my opponent's team in that game greatly influenced the changes I made to my team in the coming months.

Here are the main issues I recognized with the previous version:

- ComaTalk Revival Blessing users being susceptible to trapping by bulky Shadow Tag users. This is bad because, while PP stalling ComaTalkers is usually only detrimental to the opponent in the short term, the free turns gained from the opposing Pokemon being trapped mean two Shadow Tag users can essentially farm Last Respects BP with Revival Blessing + Lunar Dance loops (example game). This sequence can only be broken by KO'ing one of the Shadow Tag users (which the opponent can play to prevent), or a timely Tera Ghost, which the previous version of the team lacked. Among other things, this was perhaps the biggest reason why I actually lost a game, in late August. Unfortunately the game replay was wiped, but here's the link in case the battle is restored at some point.
- An inability to win against competent Assist + Revival Blessing teams in practice. I had tried my hardest to make Prankster Eternamax simultaneously an Assist team "counter" and an effective tool in non-Assist matchups. However, I eventually realized that it did not properly fulfill the former role. This is due to Assist teams' ability to spam chipping attacks that aren't callable by Assist, like G-Max Wildfire/Cannonade/Vine Lash/Volcalith/Volt Crash/Befuddle, to prevent Prankster Eternamax from reliably setting up and sweeping. With competent Assist teams cropping up, the team needed a way to prevent Assist users from endlessly reviving teammates, while successfully preventing whatever else Assist team members can run from hampering their effectiveness at that role.
- Trouble against Wonder Guard Regieleki when weakened. This is only really a problem when the opponent is competent, but Wonder Guard setup Regieleki can clean games easily once around half of the opposing team is fainted and there's no specific/one-time counterplay remaining to deal with it. While it might seem easy to slap on decently solid anti-setup counterplay and moves that most sets are most likely not running to Imprison, you also have to consider the quintessential moves on almost every Pokemon (Imprison, Beat Up, Last Respects, Revival Blessing, Lunar Dance, Substitute, protection, recovery, etc.) and, well, everything else in the metagame. While the Regieleki user has to be smart about it, sweeping a weakened team is trivial when done correctly (skip to ~turn 210).
- Much the same can be said for Good as Gold Eternamax, though in a way it's even worse because it's harder to guess which opposing Eternamax is Good as Gold and I feel I'd already exhausted my defensive options for dealing with it in the previous team version.

All of these can be addressed in various degrees. The ComaTalk issue is indeed annoying but the solution I arrived to is quite solid: run a Ghost-type ComaTalker in combination with Shed Shell ComaTalk Eternamax (or two Ghost ComaTalkers, though both are likely OHKOed so there's not much benefit when compared to one). In practice the Ghost-type ComaTalker will come into play the vast majority of the time, with Comatose Eternamax only coming in with either SubPass or Shed Tail support, or in a gamestate where Shed Shell getting removed isn't the end of the world, which is rarely. There are only so many moves that are uncallable by Assist, and it is possible to prepare for all of them with one Pokemon (provided you have Shed Tail/SubPass support). Wonder Guard Regieleki is much less of a threat if it can't Double Shock, so Magic Bounce Ursaluna is a nice additional measure (though it still gets 2HKOed by Beat Up).

Counterplay against Good as Gold sweepers is still convoluted, but compared to before I more effectively attach moves debilitating Good as Gold sweepers on the many Pokemon that can take on many, but not all, set variations. This works in practice because there are too many moves for Good as Gold users to Imprison (Core Enforcer, G-Max Centiferno/Sandblast, G-Max Volcalith, Court Change, G-Max Volt Crash/Befuddle, G-Max Smite/Chatter, G-Max Wildfire/Cannonade/Vine Lash, Sappy Seed, Salt Cure, Ruination/Nature's Madness, Knock Off, Beat Up, Last Respects, Spectral Thief, Psychic Noise, Tidy Up, Shed Tail, etc.), so some of them will always be usable by foes. Additionally, fast Neutralizing Gas users are good at pressuring Good as Gold by forcing them to preserve their Ability Shield – Choice Scarf Regieleki outspeeds +6 paralyzed Eternamax, so in combination with the non-Neutralizable Gulp Missile Cramorant-Gorging that serves as another in-game pressure.

Until about a year ago I kept an active count of my Custom Game record and I achieved 1000 wins (and still 1 non-timer loss) around that time. I've played essentially no games since then until very recently, so unfortunately I'm unable to substantiate many of the team edits that occurred so long ago. However, I can still intuit some of the more obvious ones, and I made an early draft of this post in April 2024 so some of my thought processes before that point were recorded. Below I cover the Pokemon I added as well as the ones I replaced, and then the more impactful moveset changes I made.

________________________________________________________________________​

Pokemon Changes:

Good as Gold Eternamax --> Good as Gold Chromera/Arceus
It turns out that even with 24 moves you can't really Imprison all counterplay. However a hypothetical 30-move Eternamax would do so far more effectively, so although the move count threshold for blocking off all realistic counterplay is not reached it is surprisingly close. This means if you cut corners by running sweepers with types immune to attacks you primarily run to Imprison, then set effectiveness when boosted increases dramatically. Chromera is immune to Last Respects, Spectral Thief, and Psychic Noise, while Arceus misses out on the latter. I run Chromera because of overall consistency but it theoretically struggles with random crap like Huge Power Arm Thrust MMX/Infiltrator Sacred Sword etc, so pick your poison.

Poison Heal Ting-Lu --> Neutralizing Gas Regieleki
Neutralizing Gas in combination with item removal is very very broken, partly because near-complete Ability suppression results in restricted answers to Spore/Last Respects, and partly because King's Rock Beat Up (92% flinch chance with 24 hits!) + high-power Last Respects together is not wallable. Poison Heal, in contrast, is negated by Neutralizing Gas and takes up an item slot (leaving you with a Ghost, so unable to withstand both Beat Up AND Last Respects, or a mon that's unacceptably weak to innate trappers).

Regenerator Eternamax --> Neutralizing Gas Zacian-C
Regenerator is fundamentally just not valuable defensively, even with Eternamax's bulk. Last Respects breaks through with a high enough BP, and King's Rock Beat Up/Huge Power hits after Shell Smash break through you anyway. In contrast, Neutralizing Gas is extremely broken and King's Rock Beat Up and Last Respects allow Zacian to deal with Eternamax while removing items. Zacian-C is really fast and genuinely quite bulky with its combination of raw stats and ridiculous typing.

Fur Coat Eternamax --> Wonder Guard Eternamax
The original team didn't actually deal with optimal Assist teams, so I added a hardcounter. Wonder Guard Eternamax is immune to every relevant G-Max move save for Sandblast, and is bulky enough to take whatever Crystal-Free Z-moves Assist users might throw at it. With Imprison you can actually disable any potential counterplay Assist teams may pack while having the moveslots to position for a sweep unobstructed by Gulp Innards Out, Prankster Destiny Bond, Gulp Missile, etc. The item removal + Neutralizing Gas route works too, it just takes hundreds of turns and the opponent might just be able to stall to turn 1000 (results in a tie). Fur Coat Eternamax was relatively expendable, with Prankster Eternamax, Innards Out, Imposter, Gulp Missile Cramorant, Speed control etc. in combination being sufficient to handle all-out attacking sets.

Don't lead with Wonder Guard Eternamax – trying to win outright without setting up Imprison behind Substitute leaves you vulnerable to Trick/Switcheroo, which are not called by Assist and are therefore usable on Assist teams. Instead, pass a Substitute using a Shed Tail teammate or Substitute + Baton Pass Arceus-Ground. I like the latter because you can also pass Speed boosts (accrued through Acupressure/pre-Substitute Tidy Up) with Baton Pass if needed, which are potentially useful for Infiltrator Trick/Switcheroo sets.

Once you get Wonder Guard Eternamax safely behind a Substitute, you can Imprison safely. Ingrain (or Spore if safe to, then Ingrain) right after, so Roar/Whirlwind don't switch you out. After that, Conversion so Prankster foes can't annoy you with Encore/Topsy-Turvy/priority Heart Swap/etc. and Extreme Evoboost to begin setting up and use Leppa Berry so it doesn't get removed by a stray Neutralizing Gas Thief, Magician Struggle, etc.

Since you aren't Imprisoning Heart Swap/Power Swap you'll want to use Taunt whenever possible, though it isn't the end of the world if your boosts are removed since you can always just set up again (or steal boosts with Spectral Thief). Remember that you're Imprisoning Assist, Sleep Talk (beats Comatose Sleep Talk), and Revival Blessing, so as long as you can use Leppa Berry to recover PP KOes are effectively permanent. Keep yourself at full so you can scout opposing Blissey/Eternamax's Ability, lest they're Innards Out, and remove it with Gastro Acid. KO foes with Sparkly Swirl if you cannot reliably trap the opposing Pokemon (for example, against Magic Bounce/Good as Gold foes, which can't have their Shed Shell removed via Corrosive Gas, and Ghost-types). Remember to use Octolock to trap and soften up foes you can't break through even at +6, Corrosive Gas Shed Shells/Ability Shields when needed, Max Guard to block insanely strong CFZs like boosted Clangorous Soulblaze pre-Conversion and boosted Huge Power Let's Snuggle Forever post-Conversion, and Stealth Rock to chip opposing Innards Out users so you, the base 255 HP sweeper, won't get traded off if you've removed their item.

If you run into Z-Perish Song or a successful Z-Destiny Bond, revive Eternamax afterwards and try again. If you messed up and Leppa Berry got Tricked/Knock Off'd, remove items with Neutralizing Gas Zacian-C/Regieleki, accrue Last Respects BP with Lunar Dance/Revival Blessing loops, and sweep. This takes hundreds of turns (or may go to turn 1000, in which case you don't actually win) and should be avoided when possible, though.


Magic Bounce Mega Audino --> Magic Bounce Ursaluna
Double Shock WG Regieleki was honestly very annoying for the team, and while Wonder Guards with Ground-type moves also suffice as counterplay those are vulnerable to item removal, so they're not amazing switch-ins. Ursaluna tanks Beat Ups okay enough (~60% or so from Regieleki if 24 hits) and OHKOes back with Thousand Arrows.

Unaware Eternamax --> Wonder Guard Ferrothorn
Much like Fur Coat Eternamax, Unaware just wasn't very useful – it was vulnerable to sleep with Ability Shield as well as a strong enough Last Respects. Also quite weak to trapping. Wonder Guard Ferrothorn doesn't strictly require Ability Shield to function, is immune to Spore/G-Max Vine Lash, and is a very effective slow pivot. Also, having another No Guard switch-in (in addition to WG Spirit/Sturdy Eternamax) is quite nice.

Comatose Zacian-C --> Comatose Calyrex-S
Caly-S is immune to innate trapping and outspeeds opposing Zacian-C. The former is extremely crucial, as the Sleep Talk-Revival Blessing combo requires forgoing effective counterplay vs. innate trappers, like Whirlwind, Lunar Dance, Perish Song, etc. while the latter means you outspeed almost everything bar Regieleki, increasing entry points. Also OHKOes Imposter with Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom so getting taken advantage of in that way is less of a concern.

Infiltrator Arceus-Grass --> Good as Gold Mega Audino
Infiltrator is kinda shit. Without Ability Shield opposing Good as Gold sweepers will just remove your Ability if boosted, without Grass-type you're affected by Spore, and without Normal- and a Dark-resisting type at least one of Last Respects/Beat Up threaten you. Good as Gold Audino at least annoys GaG in the short term with misc. tools that are unlikely to be Imprisoned, and if they are then teammates will serve as true counterplay – they only have 24 moves to choose from.

Hadron Engine Eternamax --> Covert Cloak Comatose Arceus
Hadron Engine started being affected by Neutralizing Gas after DLC1, meaning Comatose is now the best non-Ability Shield Neutralizing Gas Sleep counterplay. Cloak for King's Rock Beat Up. I felt I needed more mons resilient to Last Respects so I changed Eternamax to Arceus. Mega Audino takes King's Rock Beat Up better but it's much more susceptible to being set up on by innate trappers if Tera isn't burned, due to lower Speed and weaker Extreme Speed.

Huge Power Zekrom --> Scarf Neutralizing Gas Regieleki
Wanted additional insurance against Good as Gold sweepers w/ item removed, and Scarf Eleki outspeeds +2 Eternamax so it exerts significant pressure when they initially attempt to set up. Notably, this also means Scarf Regieleki outspeeds +6 paralyzed Eternamax – it can potentially accomplish something in combination with Cramorant even in that scenario. Even if they're behind Substitute you can still Encore, Perish Song, Final Gambit etc. as the situation demands. In practice you're only using this the 1% of the time you play a competent opponent who realistically threatens a sweep with a Good as Gold user.

Summary:

:eternatus-eternamax::eternatus-eternamax::eternatus-eternamax::eternatus-eternamax::eternatus-eternamax::zacian-crowned::audino-mega::ting-lu::zekrom::arceus-grass: --> :chromera::eternatus-eternamax::zacian-crowned::ferrothorn::audino-mega::arceus::ursaluna::calyrex-shadow::regieleki::regieleki:

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Moveset Changes:
Only notable ones covered since I don't care to go through all of them in detail.

Added Knock Off AND Corrosive Gas to almost everything
There are three main wincons on this team: Good as Gold Chromera, Wonder Guard Double Shock Regieleki, and Neutralizing Gas users (Regieleki/Zacian-C), with all three having practical counterplay at least at the start of the game. However, King's Rock Beat Up on Neutralizing Gas users has no counterplay outside of Covert Cloak, Cramorant-Gorging if used on a non-Electric type, and Ability Shield Prankster/Shield Dust etc. In other words, an Electric-type King's Rock Neutralizing Gas user essentially wins the game if all Ability Shields and Covert Cloaks are removed. With Knock Off + Corrosive Gas on almost every Pokemon (guaranteeing item removal against Wonder Guard/Magic Bounce/Good as Gold users as well as everything else) games are effectively put on a timer, since at some point a Neutralizing Gas user will be successfully positioned for a sweep. In higher-level games I feel this is the most important in-game dynamic and as such strengthening the team on that front is probably my most impactful moveset change.

Added Lunar Dance to almost everything
ComaTalk Revival Blessing users can revive 17 Pokemon before effective Revival Blessing PP runs out. Therefore, one can infinitely revive Pokemon if they were to regularly Lunar Dance said ComaTalker, and maybe Lunar Dance teammates with Lunar Dance should that situation arise. Also a very good mechanism to farm Last Respects BP against a helpless trapped foe – you can develop what's essentially a 100% acc OHKO move with one immunity (Last Respects) while the opponent accomplishes nothing meaningful.

Modified Good as Gold sweeper/WG Regieleki sets
As mentioned earlier, Good as Gold mons are strapped for moveslots and the previous Good as Gold Eternamax struggled vs. G-Max Vine Lash/Centiferno/Sandblast + Psychic Noise, G-Max Volt Crash hax, and G-Max Befuddle in general. Additionally, Shed Tail users could pass Substitute to a Wonder Guard that Eternamax could not hit. Therefore, Chromera packs G-Max Volt Crash, Psychic Noise, G-Max Befuddle, and Shed Tail, and the least necessary moves were cut. Wonder Guard Regieleki now Imprisons Curse so Ghost Curse doesn't screw it over, as well as Speed Swap to prevent Speed Swap --> faster Comatose Sleep Talk Perish Song from dismantling the set. It still doesn't hit bulkier Ground-types like Primal Groudon and Groundceus that completely block Double Shock. However, it can remove their items if behind Substitute, making headway toward Neutralizing Gas users sweeping. On the flipside, Shadow Tag/Neutralizing Gas teammates can KO said Ground-types, with the former also able to take advantage of vulnerable trapped foes to pass enough Tidy Up boosts for Regieleki to just KO them with Power Trip. It really would be nice to fit Fishious Rend somewhere but no move can be replaced unless you are fine with undermining set consistency.

Added Explosion/Final Gambit on a few more mons
Both moves are untauntable self-KOing moves, and therefore are inherently valuable when one is innately trapped. Explosion is the more "reliable" one of the two due to self-KOing against Ghost-types, though Dark/Ghost weaknesses are terrible so that difference isn't too debilitating. Explosion also chips Eternamax's Substitutes without breaking them which is situationally useful, though Ursaluna's Explosion is a roll.

Normalium Z Ursaluna
Manual Z-moves bypass Imprison, so Z-Perish Song can act as a one-time stop to Wonder Guard Regieleki. Also means you get a Last Respects/usually Spore-immune Knock absorber which is nice for preserving your Ability Shields and Shed Shells.

Leftovers --> Shed Shell ComaTalk Eternamax
I've mentioned innate trapping quite a few times by now, and it's because with 24 moveslots at a Shadow Tag/Arena Trap user's disposal being trapped without a means of disruption or pivoting results in them either farming Last Respects BP or omniboosting to +6 and passing to one of their main wincons. The increased longevity from Leftovers barely matters anyway when Eternamax can be revived after being KOed. In practice since item removal is so threatening in combination with an innate trapper, you'll be reviving with Calyrex the majority of the time anyway. Why not two Comatose Calyrex then? Redundant when Caly gets OHKOed by everything running Beat Up/Last Respects.

Revamped Prankster Eternamax set
I (wrongly) considered my earlier versions to be safe against competent Assist teams because Prankster Eternamax would be able to Imprison, set up in front of all non-Imprisoned counterplay, and sweep. However, this wasn't the case because the combination of G-Max Vine Lash (other G-Max chip moves were Imprisoned), G-Max Centiferno/Sandblast, Cramorant-Gorging, and Innards Out meant that angle of attack was impractical. Additionally, I could just not find the moveslots to neutralize nearly all counterplay via Imprison – for example, Infiltrator Trick/Switcheroo, Chatter/G-Max Smite, G-Max Meltdown, G-Max Volt Crash/Befuddle, and Extreme Evoboost all went unaccounted for. After relegating the Assist counter role to Wonder Guard Eternamax, which does a much better job due to Wonder Guard blocking most attacks available to dedicated Assist teams, I remade Prankster Eternamax's set to be much more effective against other team structures.

Incorporated DLC moves
The two relevant ones are Burning Bulwark and Psychic Noise. Compared to Max Guard, Bulwark causes burns vs. a decent portion of moves in exchange for not blocking Crystal-Free Z-moves or G-Max moves at all. Psychic Noise's main purpose is to act as a Good as Gold-bypassing 2-turn Heal Block that allows G-Max chip moves to overpower 50% recovery on Good as Gold sweeper checks. Neither are metagame-defining or anything but both have their place in the builder.

Added Baton Pass to Shadow Tag Zacian-C/Arceus-Ground
This should be pretty intuitive – Zacian can Baton Pass Substitute, Tidy Up, and Aqua Ring, while Groundceus can pass Substitute, Tidy Up, and Ingrain. Good as Gold Chromera strongly appreciates support when initially setting up due to its less than stellar stats, and this is the main mechanism in which support is provided.

Slightly lowered Pokestar Spirit level
Did you know that Level 9999 (or 1) is not strictly optimal? At level 9999 non-Shedinja Pokemon always have an even raw HP. This matters in literally one interaction, which is Ghost Curse. When Ghost-types use Curse they take 50% of their HP rounded down, meaning with an odd raw HP you can Curse twice from full (or take two rounds of 3 Spikes afterwards). Level 9983 happens to be the highest level at which Pokestar Spirit has an odd raw HP with full EVs. Your attack and bulk decrease by about zero (~0.3%) so it's worth it. In theory you could run Level 10 Flame Orb Mega Sableye with min. HP EVs to take 1/31 health each turn, much like the ORAS PH Level 2 set, but in practice everything has a way around it so it's not viable.


Even with these changes, further optimizations are likely possible. However, after a year and half of relatively few games I don't have the headspace or motivation to identify them and edit accordingly, so I'll leave it at that. Legends ZA as well as Gen 10 are likely to introduce Pokemon that meaningfully impact the "metagame" if you can even call it that, but I likely won't bother pondering how meaningful they are, or in what ways. My interest has waned for a long time now but if anyone is interested I hope my latest version below is of use.

Importable: https://pokepast.es/ad28b0ec64e79ea5
Bonus Assist Team (unoptimized): https://pokepast.es/a4dcdcb0013dcf41

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HallowedHarlequin said:
Bravo! How many turns do battles normally go?
Also, would teching False Swipe on something to cheese past Innards Out ever be worthwhile? I'm guessing not, but it's funny to think about.
Click to expand...
Usually 100-300 turns, games go longer the more competent the opponent is though. My closest game so far has been ~330 turns
False Swipe/Hold Back are interesting and I actually did include them in some earlier versions, but yeah they're a bit hard to justify with everything else you need to cover
HunterNeverHere9 said:
Ogerpon forms and terapagos stellar are strong but a locked tera means it's value kinda isn't good(I haven't tried ogerpon yet but it's prob worst than Arceus grass with infiltrator)
Click to expand...
Tera is so important that I honestly wouldn't consider using Ogerpon as a Wonder Guard user, Ludicolo has worse stats but the insurance from Tera opens up a lot of otherwise dangerous plays. Stellar actually behaves normally now!
 
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