SV use the same models as Legends for every Pokémon that's in both.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
The humans dude, it's the humans that are ugly
Oh, why did you post it in this thread then? I'm pretty sure everyone agrees on that.
Not my post there, that's vindingmachine's post
(not that I disagree with them)
(not that I disagree with them)
The texturing is different bro
I sat down and made these two tier lists to confirm something I've suspected for a while to myself: A large part of the reason why I'm looking forward to Z-A is because the Sinnoh dex is highkey mid and I can't wait to experience Legends gameplay with a way better pool of native Pokemon before new additions and extensions of old lines (hence why cross-gen evos and megas aren't counted). This would've still applied if they went with Unova or even Johto probably
It's weird you left out the cross gen evos for Sinnoh, but included Sylveon for Kalos.
With the benefit of hindsight maybe cobbling these together at 3 AM wasn't exactly the smartest move. I still stand by my point but ye
I didn't like the stories to Black & White very much, and even less so B2W2.
When I was younger, I liked it a little more than ordinary Pokemon narratives, which is not a high bar to overcome, but it's still something. It seemed less childish than other games.
Now I think much less of it. Okay, N was somewhat of a grayscale character, and that's a good thing for a good-vs-evil story. The great error, though is trying to justify the ancient Pokemon question of Why is it okay to take what are basically wild animals from their homes and force them to inflict horrible violence upon one another, and why do those animals grow fonder of their captors for forcing them to do that? The answer is plainly that it is not right to torture living creatures in this elaborate system of cruelty and therefore that acknowledging this problem and trying to justify it in a story (and doing a very bad job of justifying it) is only going to accentuate how bad that behavior is.
As simple as Pokemon stories had been up to that point, it still would have been better to adopt that model of simple storytelling than to try to solve a moral issue that is always going to exist as long as Pokemon is Pokemon. Until the gameplay uses only emotionless robots for fighting, it is a ridiculous idea that the moral problem of Pokemon could be solved. Let sleeping dogs lie.
Also, there are little bits with NPCs that irk me. I remember when your male rival hands you some item with no context to the story and no acknowledgement of what's happened recently. I'm sure people will say that's necessary with the way Pokemon works, but I disagree. And then there are characters like, I think, the 5th gym leader? who speaks with a ridiculous Texan accent that is meant to amuse children but is just a depthless caricature to adults.
And Ghetsis! Okay, a lot of the time his dialogue is basically on point with his mission. But every once in a while he says a non sequitur or otherwise out-of-context comment that really reminds you that you're playing a video game, not engaging with a story.
I write this while donning my flame-resistant shield. I know this is a thread about unpopular opinions but like any such thread anywhere, people are going to be reading it and think, "Wow, that is the worst opinion ever, and I must let them know it."
When I was younger, I liked it a little more than ordinary Pokemon narratives, which is not a high bar to overcome, but it's still something. It seemed less childish than other games.
Now I think much less of it. Okay, N was somewhat of a grayscale character, and that's a good thing for a good-vs-evil story. The great error, though is trying to justify the ancient Pokemon question of Why is it okay to take what are basically wild animals from their homes and force them to inflict horrible violence upon one another, and why do those animals grow fonder of their captors for forcing them to do that? The answer is plainly that it is not right to torture living creatures in this elaborate system of cruelty and therefore that acknowledging this problem and trying to justify it in a story (and doing a very bad job of justifying it) is only going to accentuate how bad that behavior is.
As simple as Pokemon stories had been up to that point, it still would have been better to adopt that model of simple storytelling than to try to solve a moral issue that is always going to exist as long as Pokemon is Pokemon. Until the gameplay uses only emotionless robots for fighting, it is a ridiculous idea that the moral problem of Pokemon could be solved. Let sleeping dogs lie.
Also, there are little bits with NPCs that irk me. I remember when your male rival hands you some item with no context to the story and no acknowledgement of what's happened recently. I'm sure people will say that's necessary with the way Pokemon works, but I disagree. And then there are characters like, I think, the 5th gym leader? who speaks with a ridiculous Texan accent that is meant to amuse children but is just a depthless caricature to adults.
And Ghetsis! Okay, a lot of the time his dialogue is basically on point with his mission. But every once in a while he says a non sequitur or otherwise out-of-context comment that really reminds you that you're playing a video game, not engaging with a story.
I write this while donning my flame-resistant shield. I know this is a thread about unpopular opinions but like any such thread anywhere, people are going to be reading it and think, "Wow, that is the worst opinion ever, and I must let them know it."
Okay so I know responding to a disagreed opinion in this of all threads usually looks silly, but there are some points I have to bring up here.
This is something that always irks me because it was something even Pokemon The First Movie made a point out of and yet several people were too media illiterate to distinguish it (not accusing you of such but it's an old topic that got under my skin there and seems to repeat here): Proper Pokemon battling is not remotely the same as cockfighting or an animal cruelty issue. The entire point is that people who use Pokemon for their own ends with no regard for the creature's existence or well-being are deplorable, but Pokemon battling in and of itself is not 1-to-1 with this attitude. On the Movie 1 example, the major point of that scene isn't "Pokemon battling is wrong," it's "Pokemon battling until the drop dead is wrong," particularly since it's to resolve a personal feud between Mew and Mewtwo.
The entire point of Team Plasma is that presenting Humans and Pokemon as only being able to interact in this incredibly cruel manner or not-at-all is a "Black and White" binary that excludes the nuance of "some people treat their Pokemon well and others don't" that makes a sweeping answer kind of impossible. People often made real life comparisons to PETA, which I find especially applicable because PETA has often expressed a very similar binary opinion on people and animals (i.e. humans should not domesticate or keep them AT ALL) with a reputation for euthanizing almost any non-wild animal they come into custody of. The reason N exists as the aforementioned Grey character is because he actually THINKS about this point despite his groomed upbringing by Ghetsis: reality causes him to question that incredibly simplistic worldview and realize it's not that simple.
The underlying point of the BW story is that there IS no "moral issue" intrinsic to Pokemon's identity. There are going to be absolutely terrible people but that doesn't justify throwing the entire system out over a few abusive individuals. Ghetsis as a "true final villain" is divisive, but I think he kind of proves why this mindset doesn't work: people who do bad in this way will simply continue to do so, because their methods were already unacceptable and thus being illegal won't deter them from anything.
Most of the other elements I don't have a protest for. Clay's "caricature" behavior didn't irritate me as an American native myself since an accent/dialect doesn't pop much and the Cowboy look just feels the same as other exaggerated or stylistic character designs throughout the series like Military man Lt. Surge, Wrestling man Crasher Wake, the Striaton Triplets as Restaurateurs; that said I can understand not caring for characters that don't have much depth in a narrative like this as the supporting cast. Stuff like that or Ghetsis's talk breaking one's immersion vary from person to person, as story reception does. The aspects I umbrage with are when those positions are predicated on or justified by information that is lacking context, poorly substantiated, or even been addressed prior but ignored in the present.
I think my issue with bw is just that its a bit too afraid of creating a narrative. Most of it hinges on N, but N himself isnt actually that interesting until the end of the game imo.
Plasma and ghetsis also feel too much like obvious bad guys. i know pokemon is for kids and i dont think simpler narratives are bad or shitty, but i think even kids would understand the point if ghetsis didnt look like an evil wizard and plasma grunts didnt spill everything immediately. so the whole moral question is kinda thrown out and the answer is obvious: these guys are dumb as fuck and you gotta beat them up, which is also the answer to every other evil team leader. So the only thing left is Ns journey, but other than subtext and the cutscene/N's room, his involvement with plasma is pretty scarce beyond the final battle, and its less like youre interacting with him, trying to help him out or anything and more like youre watching snapshots of his own life and him slowly deprograming himself from ghetsis cult, which would be cool in concept but its just too scarce/simple for me to feel anything about.
as much as su/mo cutscenes are made fun of, the game is extremely good at setting up lilie and gladion, what lusamine did, how she behaves in public vs when threatned vs with lillie, and lillie standing up fot herself against her mother. it was more successful in setting an evil team with goals that seem good but in reality are morally bankrupt and selfish and a manipulative leader that doesnt actually care about the good things and just uses them as set dressing to get what she really wants, no matter the cost or who gets hurt
Plasma and ghetsis also feel too much like obvious bad guys. i know pokemon is for kids and i dont think simpler narratives are bad or shitty, but i think even kids would understand the point if ghetsis didnt look like an evil wizard and plasma grunts didnt spill everything immediately. so the whole moral question is kinda thrown out and the answer is obvious: these guys are dumb as fuck and you gotta beat them up, which is also the answer to every other evil team leader. So the only thing left is Ns journey, but other than subtext and the cutscene/N's room, his involvement with plasma is pretty scarce beyond the final battle, and its less like youre interacting with him, trying to help him out or anything and more like youre watching snapshots of his own life and him slowly deprograming himself from ghetsis cult, which would be cool in concept but its just too scarce/simple for me to feel anything about.
as much as su/mo cutscenes are made fun of, the game is extremely good at setting up lilie and gladion, what lusamine did, how she behaves in public vs when threatned vs with lillie, and lillie standing up fot herself against her mother. it was more successful in setting an evil team with goals that seem good but in reality are morally bankrupt and selfish and a manipulative leader that doesnt actually care about the good things and just uses them as set dressing to get what she really wants, no matter the cost or who gets hurt
If Sun and Moon is in the discussion, I'm gonna say straight up, the game's story is objectively worse for the player character's involvement and presence. Other iterations like the Manga fare better, but the incarnation of the story found in the lauded SM games is not the good one just because it shares those writing elements. I'd go as far as to say SV handles the thematically similar plot beats and structure better.
Game Freak didn't feel confident giving the PC a personality while simultaneously being too afraid to give major plot moments to anyone besides you: despite being an outsider to the Aether Family, you have to rescue Lillie and Nebby, then accompany them through the Ultra Space confrontation up to Lillie telling off Lusamine for being a horrible parent. That moment kind of gets undercut for me by the fact that when Lusamine becomes the Mother Beast, she battles you until Nebby decides the plot's over and roars the Jellyfish off her. To a lesser extent this persists even into the USUM rewrite where Lusamine screws everything up and Nebby is taken protecting Lillie, only for you to go and fight Necrozma yourself. In both games this culminates for me in you essentially being given the fully evolved Nebby, completely superfluous since the game includes an event to obtain your own Cosmog that can evolve into the same form anyway.
For all the criticism levied against the BW plot, as least there is a purpose to your character's existence in the narrative (challenging Team Plasma and becoming N's opposite with the Tao Dragons is what pushes him to reflect and deprogram his upbringing). BW's plot structure does not function as or more effectively if the player's role is removed without being filled in.
SV splits the player's attention between the three plots on smaller scale conflicts while connecting with the friend group before introducing the higher stakes plot in the endgame. Your character is designated as one of several people with a role to play in the Area Zero excursion: Arven knows the area, Penny is intended to understand the tech (I'll admit flat out this isn't utilized significantly), Nemona is additional muscle to reach the depths, and you're the trainer the "Professor" entrusted with the injured Raidon (given the territorial one is also extremely dangerous) to bring the team down. While Arven has a history with Area Zero, the stakes are bigger than him and the present situation isn't presented as "his" to handle anymore than it is yours, compared to SM's Lillie/Gladion/Lusamine conflict being personal within the family that your PCis just kind of an observer for that Lusamine decides to fight near the end in Ultra Space.
The central element to all this for me though is the trauma victim and how the game handles their narrative role. Lillie is presented as a child around the player's age, but despite the series history and the arc they want to give her, she remains a very passive character until the Aether incident, at which point she speaks her mind but hasn't been developed enough to display agency or capability to take action since that would have taken away from the totally-not-gym-challenge structure the player's doing while just leaving her at various safe locations. By comparison, SV makes the traumatized party the player's Raidon, who is presented as on the more animal-natured side of Pokemon behavior. Despite this, the player can witness a more gradual growth in the mon as it regains its forms from the territorial injury and they travel the region as a pair, setting up the payoff in the ending where not only is your partner fighting fit again, but they don't hesitate to fight their previous attacker (as opposed to trying to take you 4 and escape as the AI suggests).
Game Freak didn't feel confident giving the PC a personality while simultaneously being too afraid to give major plot moments to anyone besides you: despite being an outsider to the Aether Family, you have to rescue Lillie and Nebby, then accompany them through the Ultra Space confrontation up to Lillie telling off Lusamine for being a horrible parent. That moment kind of gets undercut for me by the fact that when Lusamine becomes the Mother Beast, she battles you until Nebby decides the plot's over and roars the Jellyfish off her. To a lesser extent this persists even into the USUM rewrite where Lusamine screws everything up and Nebby is taken protecting Lillie, only for you to go and fight Necrozma yourself. In both games this culminates for me in you essentially being given the fully evolved Nebby, completely superfluous since the game includes an event to obtain your own Cosmog that can evolve into the same form anyway.
For all the criticism levied against the BW plot, as least there is a purpose to your character's existence in the narrative (challenging Team Plasma and becoming N's opposite with the Tao Dragons is what pushes him to reflect and deprogram his upbringing). BW's plot structure does not function as or more effectively if the player's role is removed without being filled in.
SV splits the player's attention between the three plots on smaller scale conflicts while connecting with the friend group before introducing the higher stakes plot in the endgame. Your character is designated as one of several people with a role to play in the Area Zero excursion: Arven knows the area, Penny is intended to understand the tech (I'll admit flat out this isn't utilized significantly), Nemona is additional muscle to reach the depths, and you're the trainer the "Professor" entrusted with the injured Raidon (given the territorial one is also extremely dangerous) to bring the team down. While Arven has a history with Area Zero, the stakes are bigger than him and the present situation isn't presented as "his" to handle anymore than it is yours, compared to SM's Lillie/Gladion/Lusamine conflict being personal within the family that your PCis just kind of an observer for that Lusamine decides to fight near the end in Ultra Space.
The central element to all this for me though is the trauma victim and how the game handles their narrative role. Lillie is presented as a child around the player's age, but despite the series history and the arc they want to give her, she remains a very passive character until the Aether incident, at which point she speaks her mind but hasn't been developed enough to display agency or capability to take action since that would have taken away from the totally-not-gym-challenge structure the player's doing while just leaving her at various safe locations. By comparison, SV makes the traumatized party the player's Raidon, who is presented as on the more animal-natured side of Pokemon behavior. Despite this, the player can witness a more gradual growth in the mon as it regains its forms from the territorial injury and they travel the region as a pair, setting up the payoff in the ending where not only is your partner fighting fit again, but they don't hesitate to fight their previous attacker (as opposed to trying to take you 4 and escape as the AI suggests).
My criticism with BW's story is much simpler
It's boring.
N is literally a guy that is touching grass for the first time.
It's boring.
N is literally a guy that is touching grass for the first time.
pika pal covered most of what I probably would have said, but I still want to hone in on this bit in particular — I don’t really see how Clay having an accent makes him a caricature? It’s not really any different from the handful of Kansai-dialect characters in the Japanese language versions of the games.
Clay being a caricature would be like if all he was talk exclusively about ten-gallon hats and making money off of oil sales before ending every sentence with “Yee-haw!” But in practice, the substance of what he says is no different from that of any other Gym Leader. And I’ve always particularly liked this line: “There's always room for folks to grow and change, ain't there? And, if ya only go after what ya think is right, ya might end up rejectin' all thoughts and opinions other than yer own. That's mighty dangerous.” Yes, it’s presented in a folksy Texan way of speaking, but you don’t get a philosophical point like that from a caricature who’s just supposed to amuse children.
I agree that Nebby defusing Lusamine by using Roar is a weak way to resolve that part of the plot, but I don’t see why the player wouldn’t inevitably be going along with Lillie into Ultra Space in any permutation of events — you two journeyed through the canyon together to make it to the altar and play the flutes, which there are two of. Why would the player just stop at that point and say, “Okay Lillie, see ya when you get your mom back!” and watch her and Nebby sail off? Ultra Space is an unknown environment full of unpredictable Pokémon, and for all of Lillie’s growth, she still isn’t a Trainer. It makes sense for the player to accompany her for safety’s sake at the very least, but I think it also makes sense because a consistent theme in the story is that Lillie draws her strength and inspiration from her friendship with you. So you both go into Ultra Space and get your respective hero moments — Lillie refutes Lusamine’s verbal abuse in the way that she rightly should, and you defend yourself when Lusamine decides to lash out at you and attack you with her Pokémon.
I disagree because this defense feels post-hoc. My contention is that things like needing 2 flutes and Lillie not growing into a trainer to battle Lusamine are basically there to justify your sole presence in a moment that your character has no role in compared to the rest of Lillie's supporting cast/system (Kukui, Burnet, Gladion, Wicke, the Captains/Kahunas that watch out for her). You're not there because you as a duo is a natural fit for the plot, you're there because Game Freak needs a PC and thus needs to pick a version of the events that calls for you. In any other game telling a story like this, Lillie would be the protag you follow and the one to both verbally and combatively challenge her mother to cap off her growth as a person.
I want to stress again that it doesn't have to be Lillie alone to work, but Lillie plus One (you) is a very weak take on the scenario. Hau and Gladion should have stuck with you two after the first Aether confrontation if anything.
Despite my dislike for Kalos, I have always loved the short new pool of additions (and think the three legendaries are probably the best of the franchise in design, which I could probably write a post about, very funny that two of my favourite mons were bprn out of Sugimori's art block). I'm hoping they expand on them with the new Megas and , dare I say it, normal evolutions? Just not too much Kanto pandering again, please.I'm more curious as to what exactly they will add, assuming all the lines with Megas will be on it.
I wonder if the plot will really be more related to AZ and XY themselves. LA can be perfectly enjoyed by someone who has not played any of the Sinnoh games and I think that's part of its appeal as an unique entry.
I'm guessing we'll have aged-up XY characters and such but things will be written in such a way that you aren't gonna be lost if you didn't play the original game. Quasar may have vengeful ex-Flare personnel and Sycamore may have a line or two forlornly lamenting his failure to keep an eye out on his friend all those years ago but this will largely be kept as backstory set dressing targeted at veterans in the vein of other very late gaming sequels like Streets of Rage 4. And of course even that much is assuming this isn't another game set in the past like LA
Funny thing is, in Clay's design notes, he is noted to be based on the idea of a Japanese businessman moving to the US and striking it big with oil(and while not stated outright, likely getting a bit too much into the idea of stereotypical American culture as depicted often in Japanese media). That is why his ancestor is in Hisui in Legends: Arceus.
In other words, he's the Pokemon version of the really old meme character Rawhide Kobayashi:
https://i0.wp.com/toiletovhell.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/rawhide-kobayashi.gif?resize=710,350&ssl=1
To be fair, she'd probably get packed up.
The answer, as always, is jumping.
This is why SwSh had a surprisingly good story. Eternatus is wildin? Leon got folded? Just jump him!
No one really feels out of place in that plot, despite the obvious shortcuts. Leon is the most proactive Champion since Lance and Cynthia, except even better since he was at the frontlines in the big crisis too.
Btw, the whole "Silent Protagonist gotta have the spotlight at all times" thing that Pokémon desperately tries to adhere to is cap. Chrono Trigger had this figured out decades ago, come on.
SwSh the climax is good and Leon I think is an underrated/over criticized Champion, but I don't think highly of the story that spans the entire game and its overall cast.To be fair, she'd probably get packed up.
The answer, as always, is jumping.
This is why SwSh had a surprisingly good story. Eternatus is wildin? Leon got folded? Just jump him!
No one really feels out of place in that plot, despite the obvious shortcuts. Leon is the most proactive Champion since Lance and Cynthia, except even better since he was at the frontlines in the big crisis too.
Btw, the whole "Silent Protagonist gotta have the spotlight at all times" thing that Pokémon desperately tries to adhere to is cap. Chrono Trigger had this figured out decades ago, come on.
Side note: Shield is canon because Hop getting his ass carried by G8 Zacian is the only explanation for him being a credible trainer in any future appearance.
I think part of Pokémon’s problem as a continued multimedia franchise isn’t necessarily the writing of any of the core series games, but rather the fact that their writers rarely actually try anything new. I saw a few posts here talking about Lusamine, so let’s start with that. “Parental figure who mistreats and possibly abuses her children” is a trope we had seen twice before this, with Ghetsis and Giovanni, meaning that anything Lusamine can do to stand out as an antagonist is welcome. My problem, particularly in the Ultra games where they completely missed the point of her character arc from base Sun & Moon, is that she never really feels like a threat, at least in the sense that the characters would have a reason to be scared of her. After reading some of these posts? Yeah, I absolutely think they could have set something up to where either Lillie or Gladion could have battled Lusamine. This wouldn’t be uncharted territory either- recall back to how Silver has had confrontations with Giovanni before, or how Ghetsis specifically has moved on his Hydreigon that seem to imply he was prepared in the situation of N’s betrayal. I mention this because, in a vacuum, Lusamine being stronger as a Trainer as either of her kids would not only make sense, but establish to the player that, even with their psychological growth, Lillie and/or Gladion would still have a long ways to go to catch up, kind of like how Norman actively challenges the player to meet him or her at his level. The difference here is that Lillie and Gladion would be training for a much different reason, helping establish themselves as their own individual characters too.
Alola’s storyline generally has a lot of the same issues that Unova’s does, albeit not to the same extent since they actually had true sequels to help build off of the first set of games. I’ve mentioned before how Ghetsis and Lusamine both fall off a bit in their respective second iterations, but in Unova especially there’s not much reason for the player to want to improve on a Pokémon training journey. Hugh going after Team Plasma in the sequels to get Purrloin back is at least something, but in a region where Cheren and Bianca’s whole character arcs are about them finding out what they want to do, the player by comparison almost feels forced into participating in what’s arguably an aging trope by the time Gen 5 rolled around. I get that collecting Gym Badges (or Z-Crystals, I guess) is the whole point of playing through a Pokémon game, but what if I wanted to, say, become a Pokémon Musical performer or something? When the game’s narrative about finding your own path is contradicted so heavily by the status quo, for me that’s a clear sign that Pokémon’s existing writing has some problems from an originality standpoint.
Let’s take a moment to compare Unova and Alola’s writing to the most region, Paldea, since their stories also have a lot in common. The neglectful parent trope returns again, but for the first time since Giovanni they actually did try and do something with Sada and Turo, beyond the fact that there’s two of them now and one is missing from your game version. In hindsight it’s kind of a shame Paldea’s writing attempts got lost in a crowd of rushed/unfinished gameplay and scrapped ideas, at least to me, because even before the Area Zero segment where the plot twist is revealed, Paldea almost feels like a 3-in-1 Pokémon game package, a sentiment that could be even stronger if the game had proper level scaling. Nonetheless, the differences here are that Nemona, Penny, and especially Arven are actively presenting to the player that they have motivations behind their actions. Shigeru Ohmori has gone on record and said that Arven’s backstory was at least partially inspired by that of his own upbringing, and having that personal connection to your craft is a grey way to make your characters in a piece of writing feel distinct and unique. Furthermore, going back to the Sada and Turo examples, we actually get to see the start of Arven forgiving his parents internally, something that doesn’t feel as impactful as Unova or Alola’s spin on this concept because the game lets us establish that connection with Arven instead of just shoving N or the Alola siblings into our faces and forcing us to care about them.
Alola’s storyline generally has a lot of the same issues that Unova’s does, albeit not to the same extent since they actually had true sequels to help build off of the first set of games. I’ve mentioned before how Ghetsis and Lusamine both fall off a bit in their respective second iterations, but in Unova especially there’s not much reason for the player to want to improve on a Pokémon training journey. Hugh going after Team Plasma in the sequels to get Purrloin back is at least something, but in a region where Cheren and Bianca’s whole character arcs are about them finding out what they want to do, the player by comparison almost feels forced into participating in what’s arguably an aging trope by the time Gen 5 rolled around. I get that collecting Gym Badges (or Z-Crystals, I guess) is the whole point of playing through a Pokémon game, but what if I wanted to, say, become a Pokémon Musical performer or something? When the game’s narrative about finding your own path is contradicted so heavily by the status quo, for me that’s a clear sign that Pokémon’s existing writing has some problems from an originality standpoint.
Let’s take a moment to compare Unova and Alola’s writing to the most region, Paldea, since their stories also have a lot in common. The neglectful parent trope returns again, but for the first time since Giovanni they actually did try and do something with Sada and Turo, beyond the fact that there’s two of them now and one is missing from your game version. In hindsight it’s kind of a shame Paldea’s writing attempts got lost in a crowd of rushed/unfinished gameplay and scrapped ideas, at least to me, because even before the Area Zero segment where the plot twist is revealed, Paldea almost feels like a 3-in-1 Pokémon game package, a sentiment that could be even stronger if the game had proper level scaling. Nonetheless, the differences here are that Nemona, Penny, and especially Arven are actively presenting to the player that they have motivations behind their actions. Shigeru Ohmori has gone on record and said that Arven’s backstory was at least partially inspired by that of his own upbringing, and having that personal connection to your craft is a grey way to make your characters in a piece of writing feel distinct and unique. Furthermore, going back to the Sada and Turo examples, we actually get to see the start of Arven forgiving his parents internally, something that doesn’t feel as impactful as Unova or Alola’s spin on this concept because the game lets us establish that connection with Arven instead of just shoving N or the Alola siblings into our faces and forcing us to care about them.
Ehhh, I disagree, the climax is marred by Rose being a complete moron and Hop jumping the gun like a crazy person.
Hop in general is a pretty annoying character, and honestly, I agree the cast is mid at best. But the premise of SwSh is very underrated.
Instead of an aimless adventure, SwSh gives you a clear goal right from the start. Take on the Gym Challenge and beat Leon to become the Champion.
Other games are like, "Here's a starter and a pokédex, please complete it, but I won't be mad if you don't. Now go out there."
Each gym is a tangible mark of progress through the story instead of just something you do to clear some kind of roadblock, NPC or otherwise.
That's something that rarely happens in Pokémon and I'd like to see more of it.
Galar’s problem for me that unfortunately takes away from this just a bit is that of pacing. It takes a pretty long time for the appeal of Galar’s premise to come into effect- the first Gym is arguably the furthest away out of any Pokémon game thus far, and that first stretch of running across the Wild Area is deceptively slow without the Rotom Bike and the player’s desire to explore should this be their first time playing Sword & Shield. Any noteworthy events taking place in areas outside of cities or the Wild Area also break the pace up a bit, but nothing was as bad for me as when I first played and genuinely forgot about the Champion’s Cup because the Macro Cosmos section took that long. And that was after I decided to basically speedrun the rest of the main story with a overlevelled Gyarados because (at the time, anyway) Galar’s characters and world building was just that boring for me.
The Gym challenge in Galar being its own thing is also hurt marginally by the fact that we don’t see Leon performing in a mentorship role for the player or Hop as much as I would have liked. I’d like to think that in-universe it’s because Leon is secretly extremely overworked and busy (sound familiar, Paldea?), but when I compare Leon to someone like Alder from Unova, the moments where he shows up outside of the Pokémon League feel much more impactful to that region’s premise than Leon’s appearances do for Galar. By comparison, I would have loved to see an Alder and Cheren-esque connection between Leon and Hop that helped flesh out Hop’s character a bit more and make him more than just “that guy who’s related to the current Champion”.
You know what would have been really cool when put like this? Imagine if Leon was essentially a part of your group as the more experienced/mentorship role, sort of like Brock's part in Ash's Gen 1-4 posse or Cilan in Unova. They could justify him having the free time to mentor you (if not travel around) by being essentially between seasons/games, with him prepping you and Hop for the League Championship because he sees real potential (and if the anime is anything to go by, wants stronger/a larger group of challenging opponents than he already has). This could even give Rose some more leeway for his haste because compared to SwSh where Leon says "I'll help literally tomorrow when the Championship's over and there's time/no one will worry," this creates a genuine question of if Leon should be helping sooner but is "distracting" himself with you (1000 years off or not, Rose would be less crazy sounding if people were procrastinating rather than obligated elsewhere).
SwSh story to me feels like someone drew up an outline or storyboards but then had 5 weeks on Crunch to write the actual scenario with it.
How would you define “a story like this”? Because to me it doesn’t feel any different from something like, say, Zelda games such as Skyward Sword and Tears of the Kingdom, where Zelda’s role is the emotional spine of the story, where she goes through a major arc of development and growth in which she makes her own choices, but where it’s still up to Link, the silent protagonist, to be the one to face the ultimate evil in combat.
Because Link, much like the Alola player character, is the player’s avatar — they’re a vessel through which the player is able to become an equal part of this story. And as I said before, the main thing is that Lillie draws her inspiration and newfound strength from seeing your own accomplishments and growth. You’re the sun, she’s the moon. Your light reflects on her and allows her to shine brighter. And if the game has done its job correctly, you will feel attached to her and will want to help her see her journey through to the end. That’s why we have a separate, silent protagonist in Zelda, in Pokémon, and in plenty of other RPGs — so that the other characters are positioned as people for you to form a bond with, rather than being a central character for you to identify with.
Like, you could create a version of Skyward Sword or Tears of the Kingdom where Zelda is the protagonist (The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom debuts worldwide for Nintendo Switch on September 26, 2024!), and you could create a version of SM where Lillie is the protagonist of the entire game. You could also create a version of SV where you play as Arven, by excising the Mabosstiff plot, in which your main motivation is to gather the Herba Mystica specifically to restore to Raidon that your mother/father entrusted to you. And all of these approaches would be valid, just like how it’s a valid approach for The Last of Us Part II to have you play as Ellie rather than the silent protagonist friend-of-Ellie. But I don’t think that approach is inherently more suitable to any of these stories — it mostly comes down, I think, to the gameplay experience that the developers want to create. And when it comes to Pokémon, Game Freak obviously favor the experience generated by the immersive self-insert approach. So they design the game around that, and fill it with stories and people for you to become involved with.
Yeah, I did think about mentioning this as well, but I also thought to myself, “Even if that weren’t the case, and if Clay had actually been intended to be a born-and-bred Texan sort, I still wouldn’t say he’s a depthless caricature. A bit of a stereotype, perhaps, but not a mockery designed for no other purpose than cheap comedy.”
My unpopular opinion to contribute here is that the climax is, on the contrary, very much enhanced by Rose being a complete moron! Because unfortunately, that’s what unchecked billionaires are like — totally out of touch with reality, and obsessed with reorienting the world according to their own weird personal pathologies and self-mythologizing.
Granted, I’m certain that this feeling of mine is heavily informed by my very American perspective, but like, I really don’t have much patience for the oft-suggested rewrites that position Rose as a noble and sympathetic corporate magnate who simply wants to take risky but theoretically justifiable action to fix climate change, because that’s just completely ass-backwards to how the world I live in seems to work.